what's your line of action when you really don't know the correct call?

As a coach I always want an ump who will be confident in his call. A bang bang play I want a solid safe or out - I don't want them to think about it and then make a call. Either the guy is out or safe so you need to make the call. I believe this is goes along with what you said about being theatrical.

If there is a question about a rule or situation just let them play and then talk with your partner and see what he says. Then tell the coaches what you decide as a team. I have alwasy heard from umpires it's easier to let the play happen and reset stuff than to kill it when it shouldn't have been killed.

I used to ref basketball but the difference was a coach really couldnt call time and talk about rule interpretations.

But when I first started a veteran took me under his wing and told me always sell your call and if I gave him a glance he would either nod at me or give me that we need to talk look. If it was in a critical situation, we would stop the game and talk and if necessary change a call - I think that happened once.

At the age you are officiating, I always liked the guys who were out there because you could see they enjoyed it. Its not like your getting the big bucks right. They dont even give you a Juicy box after the game

Have some fun, call it the best you can and as time goes on you will learn. I think if you ask PIAA and others they probably would tell you that even they dont know all the rules and interpretations - but after the game they hit the books!

Good luck dealing with all of us crazy parents!

If a all knowing coach argues, ask him if he is talking about pro, college, HS or local rules....that should confuse him for awhile - just kidding

Well if you're TRhit, you don't make a call, you run out on to the field, give the player a hug, and sing we are the world.

cccsdad, you have a PM

cccsdad\\


Don't muddy the waters of your thinking---you are involved with 7yr machine pitch with umpitres calling balls and strikes--this is 9/10 yr olds--a bit different

You send me emails begging me to stop and then you continue to "bait"---sir you lose---kids come first at 7year sof age not umpires getting paid to call ptiches behind the plate from a machine

quote:

what is your approach to a situation on the field when you just don't know what the right call is?

I remember this feeling...and its not a good memory...so first off is the advice to become an avid rule book reader...nothing takes this feeling away like knowing the rules....although I will tell you that as was mentioned above we all get in this situation now and then....I know I have.....Baseball is an intricate game....but thats what they pay us for.

When this happens....dont bluff....You may get advice from some to bluff your way through, but I dont agree.....you will get yourself tangled up and end up coming out on the worse end of an argument.

I would much rather a coach/team feel I didnt know the answer but was working to get the call right than think I was trying to bluff them with less than the truth....

First off make the call .......if there is no question, then hit the rule book after the game to educate yourself.....I do this sometimes wearing full plate gear as I do not want to forget one part of the play.....learn first, change later....

If there is a question, call time, listen to the coach and then separately confer with your partner...a good partner may have information or the rules knowledge to let you correct any mistake.....if you do not have a partner or he is of no help, then talk it through...many times the old standby "common sense" will help you along.....think what happened??....who was disadvantaged??.....what would be the fairest outcome??.....

I do not advocate bringing the rule book out....I have the applicable rule book in my car, but never take it to the field with me.....I am the rule book....walking...talking...rulebook in plate shoes.....

Lot more to this than can be written here, I would encourage you to find a mentor to partner up with during the intital season.....Michael S Taylor and I are training umpires in our respective associations and as such we work many lower level games with new umpires to help just such issues.....

best of luck...let me know how it goes...and try that search function here.....there are many threads that have good info to learn from....welcome to the site!!........we need every umpire....

just my .02

As PIAA says, make a call, discuss it if needed. If you and your partner are not sure then use the CSFP axiom.(common sense/fair play) Most times the penalize the offender works. No matter how or what you decide look it up after the game. There is no shame in being unaware of a rule, there is in not knowing it the second time it happens. If after looking it up, you are still unsure then come here and ask. We will give the best answer we can. I know when I was in your position there wasn't boards like this around and I learned by the seat of my pants. You can learn a fair amount this way but it takes a very long time. With the advent of sites such as this you can progress much faster and be a better ump than I ever could think at the time.
Good luck and enjoy what you do. Are you working in a sactioned LL system or something else?

it is a LL system but with some aabc teams in the mix. small community so we combine to get 8 teams or more in the division. and to share limited facilities, umps, etc.

thanks for the input. i have reffed a lot of basketball but no baseball.

the thing i have slight apprehension about most is NOT making the wrong judgement call: "out by an inch" "he made the catch"...i can live with that one way or the other and shrug it off and remember calls like that will always balance out in the long run if there is no bias.

but i have apprehension abt stuff like rules on how far a runner advances in weird overthrow situations or interference or obstruction [what's the difference again?* runner advancements. or stuff like a balk.

things good umps know. you can only read and study so much [and as a volunteer, who has too much time to do that even?]...it's in the game that one will learn.

the coaches and fans can be frickin' rabid! it's not the players. i'm with trhit in a lot of ways BUT put yrself in cccsdad's shoes. we can't tell the rest of the population to adopt our rather sane principles.

last few years in 7/8 yo as a coach: you would not believe the intensity, pressure and competitiveness of one or two of the teams. i mean it's nuts. really. it gets to the point where you almost want to NOT play those teams, let them go to the regional tournamnet [b/c with a loaded team it's a foregone conclusion anyway] and just have fun.

it's common here for one team to win all their games with scores like 20-0. every year the same coaches. but we want to play too so we put up with it i guess.

season starts in a week. can't wait. a bit stressed too to ump. it'll feel good to just get it going.

Pick a section of the book and read through it, understand it then move on to another section. Read the rule 2.00 first. This is the definitions and will get you through most of it. Then go to the runner, then the batter. Don't worry too much about pitching, it's pretty basic at your level. The runner and batter sections will make you aware of the obstruction, interference and base awards. These are going to be the biggest on field problems. Anything else you can CSFP it and look it up later. Hope this helps.

quote:

What you guys are preaching is the reason why kids get to HS without sound fundamentals in the game---

I prefer that kids at 7 thru 9 learn fundamentals and there is no need for umpires---

TEACH THE KIDS THE GAME--IT IS NOT ALWAYS ABOUT WINNING

I guess only have of the players in the 9 to 10 range applies.

Just so that it's clear, the umps in a 7/8 year old machine pitch game are not there just to call balls and strikes after the machine pitches the ball, and usually there is only ONE ump on the field, so he/she wears many hats, they are there to enforce other rules, like, calling the batter out when the ball beats him/her to the bag, or when a player catches a ball in the air, determining when the ball is fair or foul, you know basic stuff like that. You can't leave those important decisions up to the coaches, cause in most cases the coaches will be biased, no matter how honest they are.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
cccsdad\\


Don't muddy the waters of your thinking---you are involved with 7yr machine pitch with umpitres calling balls and strikes--this is 9/10 yr olds--a bit different

You send me emails begging me to stop and then you continue to "bait"---sir you lose---kids come first at 7year sof age not umpires getting paid to call ptiches behind the plate from a machine

We don't call balls and we only call a strike if the kid swings and misses.

Who the hell ever said umpires come first. That's your insecurity. What, did your old lady run off with an umpire or something.

Again, prove to everyone in here that your beliefs are real, and petition the USSSA to do away with umpires for 7 year olds. Otherwise you're just a big, blow hard who's trying to make him self feel good by trumpeting a cause.

All I ever said was this, in our league we do have umpires for 7 year old machine pitch, we don't call balls and strikes, unless the kid swings and misses or hits a foul ball. Yes, if the kids gets three swinging strikes on him/her, we call them out. Tell them nice job, and keep your head up. No,we don't let them swing, and swing and swing and swing until they hit the ball. See if we did that,the other 25 kids that want to bat wouldn't get a chance because time would expire. Wait, in your league, they don't have time limit, right? They don't call players out, right? So just how does the game end?

Let me guess, they don't even have teams, they just bring 150 kids out there and let them hack away unitl there arms fall off?

Yep I get paid when I umpire a game, and ya know what, there's not a darn thing wrong with that. I use the money to take my 3 little ones to Universal Orlando, heck I'm even using some of the money to buy new tires for my car before we head down. I guess I'm just a bad guy, taking money for calling out poor little kids, that don't even know which way to run.

cccs


If you think I AM INSECURE than you are out in left field beyond the fence--I have not been insecure since I could walk and talk---if anything I am TOO SECURE


And I really don't care what you do with the money you make---just make sure the kids at 7 years of age are learning the fundamentals---like what direction to run when they hit the ball

quote:

just make sure the kids at 7 years of age are learning the fundamentals---like what direction to run when they hit the ball

I think touching the bases and not running over a defensive player are fundamentals of the game, too.

T REX--


If they knew what to do they would not have to stop and decide which direction to take


Ironically all my adversaries here are from TEXAS---sure does say something

I wouldn't say that you and I are adversaries.

I agree with you that youth baseball should be less competetive, but we appear to be in the minority. It has become necessary for youth leagues to put umpires on the fields to keep parents and coaches in check, and to a certain point it has helped. However, it is only treating a symptom, but is not the cure for the underlying problems.

None of the 7 and 8 year olds I've seen play run the bases in the wrong order, because parents are able to sign their kids up for 4 year old t-ball. Seven and eight year olds here have the possibility of having played 6 seasons (fall and spring) before they reach the coach pitch level.

What I worry about more than them not knowing how to play by the time they reach the level you coach, is a complete disrespect for the game from years of watching their parent's behavior, or that they will be burnt out and won't care about the game enough to play at all.

Just my thoughts.

A judgement call is one thing? was he out safe ball strike etc etc. usually the hard ones are the interprtation of the rules things such as interfernce obstruction where to place runners after dead ball. If there are 2 umpires consult. the object is to get it right. when in doubt use common sense. that usually leads to the correct call(not always but more than not)

There will be 1,000 judgement calls to every 1 rules question call you make where coaches/players/fans will argue with you.

The one thing I'd like to see more of out of lower level umps is not making calls on the bang-bang plays in a bang-bang fashion, IOW without letting the brain process what it has just witnessed. A two or three second delay on calls at first will give your brain time to process, and probably save you a lot of grief. When I umpired years ago, I used this technique. I felt I was more accurate and people perceived that if I made a call, I was sure about it.

Remember, the best umpires are the ones that nobody has ANYTHING to say TO or ABOUT when the game is over.

Don't make it about you, or especially your own theatrics. That just plays into the hands of your critics. To me, umpire's theatrics give me the impression of an unsure confidence. But that's just me.

I'm no pro umpire, but as piaa_ump mentions, read the rules and get to know them inside and out. Re-read them then go over them again.

One of the most useful things I found was the sort of situation questions that you can read - there are umpire books that aren't rule books but are situational interpretation based. And here on this and similar forums when you get the "You Make The Call" type of thing where a specific situation is posed and you're asked to make the call. Do your best and then see what others have to say. Reading these answers step by step can be fascinating and it not only helped me to understand that specific situation posed in the question, but the thinking behind it has helped in many different situations just because I got to see how the rules applied and the reasons behind it.

Also I enjoy reading the answers given by guys who ultimately give the wrong interpretation. Then someone like pilsner or MST or piaa comes along and explains the ruling as they see it. Chances are my questions and erroneous interpretations are being answered at the same time by their responses.

I usually go into my "fake heart attack" routine.