When does a corner infielder typically get looked at?

You may not like my answer. 

This is from experience with my son. In HS he was 6'3" 230lb 1st baseman. What he had to sell was as a hitter. He was a good/serviceable 1B, with 60 times the same as your son.  He played on a good HS program and did a good amount of events for exposure. 

What we found was that in spite of good numbers as a hitter, he got very little attention (one showcase he had a HR and 2 2b's and only got an invite to a camp). After a while, I made a point of talking to several prominent scouts and recruiters. What I learned is players like my son were recruited on an "as needed basis." Those that I spoke to made it clear that coaches could always move a player from the outfield, use a catcher or another infielder rather than focusing on a player that could only play 1b.

To overcome this we started focusing on programs where there was likely a need; even though they may not be recruiting for the position. This meant looking at rosters and stats for teams. We looked for teams where the incumbent 1b was a senior or junior. We then looked a the depth of underclassman and checked stats to see how they had performed the freshman or sophomore year. We also looked at their physical attributes; if there were one or two other 6'3" LH 1B that were freshman or sophomores there was a higher likelihood that the coaches felt that there needs were being met. We also looked at depth at catcher. If they had several good hitting catchers we knew that the competition would be greater.

In the end, he found 3 good schools that wanted him. A D3 in Ohio, a D1 in South Carolina and a D3 in Texas. 

The key was we did not wait for the schools to come to us. He went out and found schools where there was likely a need and then "baited the hook" so that the schools would come after him.

The short answer to your question : LAST 

NCAA Recruiting is simple. Pitchers go first then middle infielders and Catchers . The money is ' In the Middle' . And in that formula , it is not spread out evenly . Pitching dominates recruiting .Go to any NCAA roster and you'll see 35 players and 1/2 are pitchers.

SS's generally go next . If you check Recruiting committs at PG , you'll see schools with 3 SS's in 2019 recruiting class. Why? Because as ILVBB pointed out above, a SS can move to 3rd, 2nd and any OF position.

Also, NCAA D1 recruiting is regional . The talent is regional . Look at the MLB Draft and you'll see that the bulk of talent comes out of California . Then Texas and other Southern States . Only the best of the best play D1 ball in the  South and the West Coast. The South however, does like to recruit in it's own back yard . But even with that, it's tough.

The trick to recruiting is about finding the 'right fit' w/ Baseball, Socially, financially and most importantly academically .

You have to cast a WIDE NET. D1, D2, D3

Also, Foot speed in NCAA Baseball is HUGE. I understand your son is a big kid. But keep in mind , As a Sophomore he's not what he's 'going to be' . In other words , he's a 7.6 now in the 60. He can improve that. Will he break a 7? Maybe not. But a good track coach can shave 3 maybe even 4 points off of that time with just a few technique moves and some work by your son.

There is an old saying ' If you can hit,  you don't sit'. That is true. If your son can hit , There will be a place for him but his recruiting interest might be slow.

If he's a good student, I would pound the SAT/ ACT work! High Academic schools are quicker to make exceptions for big bodied corner guys w/ pop . Also, as ILVBB said , Get him in front of Top D3 programs. There are a bunch in the South East . Emory and Rhodes come to mind.

The biggest mistake parents and kids make w/ recruiting is that they waste their time looking at schools they're not qualified to play for. Power 5 school? Yeah , contact them only if your kid projects for the 2020 MLB Draft because the guys they're looking at do!

My unsolicited advise is : Get those grades up , Hire an SAT / ACT Tutor and get a track coach from a local University. And Lastly , cast a WIDE NET w/ Recruiting . Don't focus on 5-6 D1 programs in the South. Clemson, SC, Georgia , Vandy all those schools talk to everybody but only recruit kids that project for Pro Ball. Look at North East Schools and contact 10-12 D3's

MP,

My comfort zone with sharing knowledge and experience, having endured the D1process with a son, is with pitching but I will go out on a limb and share this.  S.O. is absolutely correct in what he said about coaches recruiting "up the middle" first, then SSs second only to Pitchers, they are usually the most athletic players and can simply be moved anywhere on the college field.  I heard one D1 HC say once, "every position player on our roster was the starting SS for their HS team."  

I don't believe you said if your son bats Right or Left?  I believe Left-side hitting CIFs are more desirable and therefore recruited sooner than RHBs.  Not a rule, just a tendency.  

What caught my eye in your description was referring to your son as "bulky."  Bulky as a sophomore can turn into "chunky" summer before Sr. year if not monitored.  Often CIFs in HS are there as they do not have the speed and movement of a spry MIF.   I'm sure you know this.  S.O. is correct also in saying, "Bats play."  But that bat better be off the charts, freakish, and consistent if the feet don't move faster than 7.4.  Going from a 7.6 to a more attractive 7.2 is no small feet (no pun intended), and it needs to get done asap for D1 consideration.   And the glove needs to be equally consistent.   I know for a fact there comes a point where a D1 RC will say, "We love his bat, just don't know where to play him in the field?"

My thought is a desirable CIF should be more linebacker than lineman.  That's my caveat.  If he's "bulky" as in linebacker?  He should be fine.  But if he's trending toward lineman?  That may be an issue for recruitment as a D1 CIF.  

Hope this helps.  

Matt,

I agree with everything ILVBB, Strained Oblique and #1 Asst Coach have stated.  They've offered you exceptional advice.   They've addressed the what and when.

My two cents of unsolicited advice.....I'd like to address "the who".   Another point that I think you need to understand as you take this recruiting thing on is that nobody knows everything and nobody is going to work harder at this than you and your son when you understand the options.   You mentioned a "recruiting coordinator".   I'm not sure exactly what that means.   Is this somebody you've hired to collaborate with you or someone that is doing this for you?  Here is my point....college recruiting is a tough gig.   Very few completely understand what their son wants and what their son is capable of.  If you are collaborating with someone make sure they understand exactly what your son is looking for.   My son's travel coach was very instrumental in opening some D1 doors in our region and my son eventually getting offers from a handful of D1 schools because of that travel coach.  What we learned is that his travel coach's network of college coaches was limited (by region and scope) and there were other options out there that we didn't know about that we uncovered on our own.    My wife and I read numerous books, talked to people, read blogs, and did everything we could possibly do to understand the college baseball recruiting universe based on my son's ever changing requirements.  Here is my ask....immerse yourself in this process to the point where you are reaching out to college coaches that your recruiting coordinator is not.   Keep him updated on your activities and successes, but please take ownership of the process.   HSBBWeb is full of people like this and their successes are everywhere.    I hope you understand what I'm saying.  If you have questions, please PM me.

Good luck!

Thanks for the responses guys, very informative!

Arkansas just got a 2021 3B to commit.

Agree, great info by others.  Another observation regarding your son's size as it relates to recruiting timing...

You said "He knows that his speed is lacking and should get it up, but he’s had older friends similar to his style of play that run slower and still went to play college ball."  and "..very wide frame, bulky".

With that size and frame type at that age for a position player, I believe many RC's will have concern as to which way that will go.  The player can make exceptional efforts to assure the size is maximized and become a relatively athletic and agile big guy or the player can continue to battle limitations with his very wide frame from a mobility standpoint.  Many D1's will "wait and see" with a guy like this.  Many D2's and below will wait for the drop-down opportunity with a guy like this.  So, in either case, the timing is likely to be later.  Make sure he is putting proper emphasis on assuring he can be as conditioned, athletic and quick as possible with his frame type.  Don't allow the "other slower friends played in college" be an excuse not to address this with full commitment.

Even at the HS level, I am battling this issue this year as I do most years.  I have more than one big guy with a very good bat but there is only one position at 1b.  If I put them at 3b, capable opposing teams will expose us with bunts.  If I put them in a corner OF position, their glove and routes may be fine but lack of range allows too many balls to fall that shouldn't.

Edit to add - To confirm what others are saying - we currently have a SS getting D1 attention.  This player has every desirable tool to stay at SS at the next level.  I can't imagine anyone moving him elsewhere under any circumstances at the college level.  The RC that has called the most on him agrees with me yet, he has asked me multiple times about his ability to move to other positions.

No one has pointed out that the pyramid gets smaller with time. The kid that is limited as to where they can play on the field are equally limited as to the schools where there may be a need. 

My son was 1b; he could play the outfield but he would always be a step slower than most of the other options on his team. The reality was he was either a 1B or a DH.

Once he got to college, the conditioning regiment dropped his weight 15lbs and he became a little quicker (heck - he went 9-12 in SB over 4-years of college).

The key is find a need, work on what you can improve and be realistic. Not everyone is going to find an opportunity to play college ball. 

fenwaysouth posted:

Matt,

I agree with everything ILVBB, Strained Oblique and #1 Asst Coach have stated.  They've offered you exceptional advice.   They've addressed the what and when.

My two cents of unsolicited advice.....I'd like to address "the who".   Another point that I think you need to understand as you take this recruiting thing on is that nobody knows everything and nobody is going to work harder at this than you and your son when you understand the options.   You mentioned a "recruiting coordinator".   I'm not sure exactly what that means.   Is this somebody you've hired to collaborate with you or someone that is doing this for you?  Here is my point....college recruiting is a tough gig.   Very few completely understand what their son wants and what their son is capable of.  If you are collaborating with someone make sure they understand exactly what your son is looking for.   My son's travel coach was very instrumental in opening some D1 doors in our region and my son eventually getting offers from a handful of D1 schools because of that travel coach.  What we learned is that his travel coach's network of college coaches was limited (by region and scope) and there were other options out there that we didn't know about that we uncovered on our own.    My wife and I read numerous books, talked to people, read blogs, and did everything we could possibly do to understand the college baseball recruiting universe based on my son's ever changing requirements.  Here is my ask....immerse yourself in this process to the point where you are reaching out to college coaches that your recruiting coordinator is not.   Keep him updated on your activities and successes, but please take ownership of the process.   HSBBWeb is full of people like this and their successes are everywhere.    I hope you understand what I'm saying.  If you have questions, please PM me.

Good luck!

That is great advice !!

I will weigh in on this, as my youngest son is a corner infielder too.  If your son can play both corner positions well enough to do that in college it will be a big advantage in his recruiting.  The problem with most corner guys is that they don't have any measurable that is eye-popping.  They don't stand out in a showcase, so their game has to be really well rounded. My kid likes to work really hard at the things he is already good at - not the areas where he needs to improve.  Flexibility can be an issue for bigger guys so I suggest yoga classes or swimming to increase flexibility. That will help him improve his 60 time as well as reducing the chance of injury. Other posts are correct that college coaches feel like they can move an athlete to 1B and or 3B and therefore good HS players at those positions sometimes get recruited late in the process - or not at all.  My first day of JUCO practice our coach lined all of us up and asked for each of us to state our name and position. 6 kids said SS. Only one played there. The rest of us got moved to other positions.

Matt Parsons posted:

This whole recruiting process is a really difficult thing, especially when you are dealing with a good player. .....

.....He says that typically corner infielders get recruited later, rather than MIF going early. Is this true?

To add and answer your question specifically...

Your first observation is completely wrong.  The process is far more difficult for a bad player 

The second comment is partially correct.  MIF includes 2b's.  Most HS 2b's don't have the arm strength to be actively recruited (at least not to strong programs).  IMO, the order is as follows...

1. Pitchers

2. SS

3. Catchers and CF's that can hit

4. Big bats that can play defense

5. Everything else is a bit of a crap shoot

Of course there are exceptions.  i.e. - With some top HS programs, very good infielders get moved to 3b or 2b because they already have an absolute stud at SS.  

Love this conversation. My son is a corner infielder and pitcher. Some schools love him for his bat and others are looking at him as a pitcher.  A few schools like that he has both and right now he loves doing both. Trying to decide if he should specialize or let the process play out and see what happens. 

I will concur with others that great Pitchers, SS and great OF generally go first. 

Matt, my son was similar size to yours at that age. He's now a junior 1B at a top 20 D3. Still 6-3, but 25 lbs heavier (lifting and bad genetics). If he wasn't a very good fielder, he would probably be a DH; maybe LF if they were really pressed to get him on the field. Quick reflexes, but slow feet. Mid-major and higher D1 teams don't recruit guys like him out of high school, unless the bat is elite (think Wes Rea).
I agree with pretty much everything above. Only items I can add:
- JuCo is one path to higher level D1. A year or two of big power numbers against high level pitching will generate interest.
- A big body is ok for pitchers. My kid probably would have switched to RHP if not for elbow issues.
Good luck.

What would you consider standout numbers for a CIF? For a 2020 3B, I would say 95 Exit velo off tee with wood and 82/3 across the IF, if the speed is not there.  

Kyle31 posted:

What would you consider standout numbers for a CIF? For a 2020 3B, I would say 95 Exit velo off tee with wood and 82/3 across the IF, if the speed is not there.  

The PG Jr National workout results should give you some idea. Mostly 2019/2020s from all over the country. Held last summer. Best exit velo for a 2020 at any position was 94.

https://www.perfectgame.org/ev...ults.aspx?event=5055

At the PBR Texas PreSeason Showcase last weekend there was a 97 and a 96 exit velocity posted.  One of the kids is committed to Texas.  That said, those are some of the highest I have seen for 2020.

My 2020 son (15 and 10 months) is currently at 95 with wood off a tee, we have a guy here in md who was 103 last year as a freshman at pbr, and 102 at PG.

Corner infielders get looked at last unless they’re absolute mashers. The best athlete-baseball recruits are typically shortstops. In college it’s not uncommon to find recruited shortstops at short, second, third and other positions. 

Btw if you are a big corner guy, what would be better?

1. Work on your agility and speed to go from very bad to somewhat acceptable?

2. Really bulk up and try to go from power hitter to moonshot hitter even if it means you get even slower and stiffer?

Ideally you work on both of course but what should you prioritize?

Isn't there a point when you have so much power that the rest doesn't matter (say you regularly hit 450 bombs in bp instead of just clearing the fence by a little? 

Of course not many have that potential but if you already have mid 90s  exit like the op states why not try to get to 100?

I mean probably nobody cared about adam dunns glove, legs and arm in college, didn't they?

Dominik85 posted:

Btw if you are a big corner guy, what would be better?

1. Work on your agility and speed to go from very bad to somewhat acceptable?

 

2. Really bulk up and try to go from power hitter to moonshot hitter even if it means you get even slower and stiffer?

 

Ideally you work on both of course but what should you prioritize?

Isn't there a point when you have so much power that the rest doesn't matter (say you regularly hit 450 bombs in bp instead of just clearing the fence by a little? 

 

Of course not many have that potential but if you already have mid 90s  exit like the op states why not try to get to 100?

I mean probably nobody cared about adam dunns glove, legs and arm in college, didn't they?

Since Adam Dunn never played college baseball I'm sure they didn't care. Dunn was drafted out of New Caney HS (TX) and was a high profile football recruit at QB - had signed with U of Texas.

Dominik85 posted:

Btw if you are a big corner guy, what would be better?

1. Work on your agility and speed to go from very bad to somewhat acceptable?

 2. Really bulk up and try to go from power hitter to moonshot hitter even if it means you get even slower and stiffer?

Dominik85 posted:

Btw if you are a big corner guy, what would be better?

1. Work on your agility and speed to go from very bad to somewhat acceptable?

 

2. Really bulk up and try to go from power hitter to moonshot hitter even if it means you get even slower and stiffer?

 

Ideally you work on both of course but what should you prioritize?

Isn't there a point when you have so much power that the rest doesn't matter (say you regularly hit 450 bombs in bp instead of just clearing the fence by a little? 

 

Of course not many have that potential but if you already have mid 90s  exit like the op states why not try to get to 100?

I mean probably nobody cared about adam dunns glove, legs and arm in college, didn't they?

Chances are a slow runner is going to clog up the bases far more than he hits moon shots. Besides, the ball only has to go over the fence, not to the next county. I’ll take the gap to gap line drive hitter with adequate foot speed every time. So will most coaches. These guys get stronger in college and eventuallly hit homers. 

Totally agree with Mid and RJM... Bigger and slower means less options as a position player, which means less potential opportunity to crack the lineup and more limitations presented to your coach.  And clogging the bases is a definite component in the equation.  

I was playing around with lineup options last night for our HS program.  I kept feeling compelled to slide down two of our most potent hitters (and create space between them), largely because they are strong GIDP candidates in spots behind guys that will get on base a lot and this will likely kill lots of rallies.  Yes, of course, if they are potent bats, they will also often drive those runners in (which is obviously the goal) but the DP likelihood definitely factors in.  If they have at least "somewhat acceptable" footspeed, that helps.

I saw a local 2021 in my area  big kid 6'2 210  7.85 60 commited to Arkansas last week listed as 3b. 

Luken Baker says Hi!  

Based on the above, do cif not really even get looked at?  I know my son is still far out, but should myself and others in my position "encourage" their sons to try different positions other then 1b and 3b?  While my son isn't the fastest he has gotten faster.  I don't need to worry about 60 time yet, but I am just looking down the road in a couple of years to when he plays in HS (the good Lord willing!)

Dadof3 posted:

Based on the above, do cif not really even get looked at?  I know my son is still far out, but should myself and others in my position "encourage" their sons to try different positions other then 1b and 3b?  While my son isn't the fastest he has gotten faster.  I don't need to worry about 60 time yet, but I am just looking down the road in a couple of years to when he plays in HS (the good Lord willing!)

You play where you’re needed. But on his high school summer travel team he should ask to get some outfield training and playing time. 

It’s ironic parents of young players often think getting placed in the outfield is a “You suck” label. Being able to play outfield well is often a faster ticket to varsity if a kid can hit. 

RJM posted:

Dadof3 posted:

Based on the above, do cif not really even get looked at?  I know my son is still far out, but should myself and others in my position "encourage" their sons to try different positions other then 1b and 3b?  While my son isn't the fastest he has gotten faster.  I don't need to worry about 60 time yet, but I am just looking down the road in a couple of years to when he plays in HS (the good Lord willing!)

You play where you’re needed. But on his high school summer travel team he should ask to get some outfield training and playing time. 

It’s ironic parents of young players often think getting placed in the outfield is a “You suck” label. Being able to play outfield well is often a faster ticket to varsity if a kid can hit. 

I used to tell kids I coached that all the time.  "You better know how to play outfield, because the best feeding into the HS team were usually SS.  There's only one starting SS."

Dadof3 posted:

Based on the above, do cif not really even get looked at?  I know my son is still far out, but should myself and others in my position "encourage" their sons to try different positions other then 1b and 3b?  While my son isn't the fastest he has gotten faster.  I don't need to worry about 60 time yet, but I am just looking down the road in a couple of years to when he plays in HS (the good Lord willing!)

IMO there is always a place for a good corner infielder.  However, he has to be a really good hitter.  And it helps if he can play both corners well.  I would lean toward your son playing the position(s) that is natural to him as opposed to a position change for the purpose of potential recruitment.  The one exception to my last statement would have to do with the catcher position.  There always seems to be a shortage of really good catchers.  If your son can (and wants to) play that position, and he has the feet to be good at it, then you might think hard about that. 

The more positions you can play the better. If you are a corner infielder and the only corner you can play is 1b you better be working on speed, agility, and strength to impress for recruiting.  This has been brought up a few times but the best position in HS for a college corner infielder is a big bodied HS SS. My 2017 son was a HS SS recruited to college to play infield.  He has taken reps all fall and so far this spring at SS and 3b in the infield.  He took reps in the fall in RF.  He is also taking spring reps at 1b now as the other infield spots will probably be upperclassman and to get his bat in the lineup he may play 1b or DH. This was a long round about way to say the more you can do the easier it is for a college coach to want to play you.

I also wish my son took reps growing up in the OF. He never did and it would have saved him some time trying to learn it in college fall ball.

I am in a very similar situation with my older one, who is a 2021, 6" 220 lbs. His current EV is 91, arm velocity is 80; plays 3B/1B and also occasionally LF. His 60YD dash is 7.5. 

Feedback from showcases, primarily D2, D3's has been that his swing is good and powerful.

Should I make him focus on strength and speed for the off-season before the school season starts? 

Should I encourage him to play more LF so that he has more options?

RAJ - yes, focus on strength & speed.  Nobody other than the very very lowest JUCO's & D3's will put a 7.5 runner in LF.

This is a great thread.  My 2021 is in the same boat.  6'1" 205 right now.  Will probably top out at 6'2"... Right now he is, like the OP's kid, a 7.6 runner.  88 mph Exit Velo a few months ago... Very similar measureables to, Reality is, a ton of guys like that out there... And it is tougher than ever to be an elite hitter because there are a ton of high school pitchers throwing upper 80's to low 90's

the biggest thing, he's been told, is if he can get the 60 time in the 6.9-7.1 range he will be much more recruitable as a versatile defensive player.  Either that or he's got to be a ridiculously great hitter...

I have a question on followup. When coaches send a reply or ask specific questions such as schedule, how to continue having a conversation with them?

Should players regularly send updates on schedules, videos, Grades, scores to coaches who have followed up?

can the player ask specific questions on 2021 roster?

How to keep the conversation engaged with a coach at the same time not sending too many emails?

Yes, send regular updates with schedules etc... The biggest thing, besides getting Bigger Stronger Faster, is to have a travel team coach or high school coach helping with the recruiting process.

It is good to email plenty and keep in contact.  There isn't any "magic email" that will get a team interested.  Getting the 60 to 7.1 or lower & getting the throwing velo to 87+ will definitely get them interested.

I used to think a big exit velo would do it.  Maybe for JUCO's, to a degree.  A friend of ours' 2020 just recently commited to a mid major D1 who has a 105 Exit Velo off the tee, but he plays Catcher as well as 3B/1B and he didn't get any scholarship money, he's walking on.  Unless he really improves, my guess is that he'll just be a bullpen catcher for them.

I also had the same thought process that a high EV and the ability to hit consistently with Power would be enough, but as I am hearing more and more especially for corner IF, its a bigger challenge as they are probably the last ones to be recruited generally speaking

Finding out if the college has an opening for such a position, seems to require a lot of DD especially as MIF may end up playing 3B as well.

He does have a travel team coach who is ready to assist in the process, but I believe I need to know open up all Div's and JUCO's as well

My son as a Junior ran a 7.69 electronically timed 60 at heads first.  He's a 2020.   This August he ran a 7.17 electronically timed 60 at head first.  He is 6' 2" 200.   How? Strength and conditioning I put at 50% of improvement.   The other 50%, he just matured/grew into his body.   Your son's speed can certainly improve by half a second in my opinion.  My son is a very good 1B prospect (ok, IMO), can hit for average/power.  All his interest, however, came as a pitcher (LHP).  His friends who are MIF/OF/Corners had a harder time but good players find the right home...Most have.

My son is a 2020.  Between his HS and travel teammates and opponents I'm pretty familiar with about 25 kids who have recently committed to D1, and a bunch more who expected to and haven't.  The biggest surprises all seem to be that the big power hitters came up short of expectations.  The wiry MIFs with speed, even those not currently considered stud hitters, did better than expected.  

In looking through college D1 rosters, it is pretty common to see corner infielders who are JUCO transfers.  Play 2 seasons in JUCO (4 seasons, really, considering how many games JUCO teams play in the fall), lift a ton of weights, work hard and go D1 as a Junior.