When is it time to move on?

I have some thoughts, but it’s based on two assumptions: 1) sons was on the varsity team last year or reasonably expects to make the varsity in the spring, 2) he is planning on applying to colleges. If both are valid, I think it’s important that he see his participation on the baseball team through to HS graduation. While I don’t have first-hand knowledge yet, I imagine college admissions counselors are looking for a “complete” body of work from hopeful applicants. Will your son be OK including “quit team before senior year” in his application? If not, does he have other activities that can take the place of the time he spent at baseball during prior 3 years of High School?
Attaining College admission based on grades and a well-rounded student body experience is not the usually intended meaning of “next level” on this site, but in your son’s case, it just may be.

If he loves the game but is not happy with the current siutation, he needs to suck it up and make the best of it. Explain to him that some things in life change, and not always for the better. This is his last year to play HS baseball, and this time will never come again. So even if the coach is not good, or your son does not think he is getting a fair shake from him, he must do the best that he can under the circumstances. If he quits now he will probably wind up being like you some day regreting his decision. I know a kid last year who is good friends with my son. A bunch of starting JV kids went out for the varsity but did not make it. However this kid made the team, but was not going to start, so he turned down the spot. All throughout the year he was lamenting to my son how he had made a mistake and wishes he stuck it out every single game day. What made it worse was two middle infield spots opened up due to injury and one kid being thrown off the team. So he was really kicking himself since he would have gotten a shot during the season.
The bottom line is that if your son loves the game, he needs to make the best of whatever situation he might find himself in.

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What made it worse was two middle infield spots opened up due to injury and one kid being thrown off the team. So he was really kicking himself since he would have gotten a shot during the season.

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his is his last year to play HS baseball, and this time will never come again.

Have him watch the Sean Payton speech in the opening to "boys of fall" by Kenny Chesney. He talks about seizing the moment and focusing on what is about to be gone forever. Its about football, but applies to any sport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlXDo5WhQXI

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Originally posted by Bas3balldad:I will admit I have my own regret about having quit a sport (not baseball) in HS and my dad never said 2 words about it to me. I don't want to project my own regrets on to him.

Why not? It's called wisdom and should be imparted on the young.

I would have to challenge him on what, "doing something else is". If it truly is something worthwhile that he is committed to, it would make sense to move on.

If it's, "I don't know", it could turn into sitting around in front of the TV. Then it might be time for some tough love.

Stu

When it isn't fun anymore.

Momof1B - If your sons definition of when it is time to move on is when it isn't fun anymore then he probably isn't going to like playing college baseball....trust me .... the running, the off-season conditioning, the 5:30 am work-outs, the road-trips with exams/finals within hours of when you get back from a road-trip, the field maintenance if your school doesn't have a paid grounds crew, .... and it goes on and on. You can't imagine the hours it requires, it is definitely not the typical college experience.

Gotta love the sport unconditionally to play in college because there are many,many days when it isn't fun....

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Gotta love the sport unconditionally to play in college because there are many,many days when it isn't fun....

Sometimes a player gets a little burned out and needs some time off. Like we all do on our jobs, that's why we take vacations.

The honest truth is that many, many times you may not feel that you are having "fun". One has to put aside the fact that this is going to happen, often, at every level.

Think of it this way, do you all have fun everyday at your job? Probably not, you know there are going to be bad days and good days, it's how you handle the bad ones is whether you stick on that job or not. Sometimes people realize their job is not fulfilling, then they move on. If the job now becomes a chore are you willing to go through the obstacles needed to be successful? Baseball brings many obstacles your player will face and in comparison is the same as you experience on your job.

I don't think that many really understand it (how difficult playing after HS is), it's very hard to grasp until you see your son experience it. You might hear a few times that it wasn't what he thought it might be or you may hear it's even better than he thought. Go with the flow.

Baseball brings out the best and the worst in players. Often times we see the player move forward who we never thought would, and other times we see the player who seems to have everything in his favor not move forward, it's all about what is inside of you, most likely the player who works his butt off will succeed in anything he does, it's all about your desire, your determination, that is what determines how far you go, not always the skills.

Your son is young, so you may have to sit down and talk to him, that should give a clear idea of how he really feels. If he thinks that it has become a chore, then perhaps it is time to move on. Never convince your player to do something because that is what you want him to do, let him make his own choices, after he hears the pros and cons. Love and appreciate him for who he is, not what you want him to be or think he should be, there comes atime when they have to make up their own minds, and if they look back someday on, "I should have but didn't", that's ok, IMO.

I don't know how much your son loves the game. I can tell you there are plenty of times its not fun. And each player requires a certain amount of "fun" to keep them going. Some can go the entire season just being a part of the team and get a few ab's or a couple of innings on the hill and its enough. For others thats not going to get it done. Some can get up every morning at 5am work out go to class. Practice and then go to study hall. Eat , study , go to bed and do it all over day after day and its worth it. For others it is not.

I am a terrible golfer. For 17 holes I can be having a terrible time. All it takes it one good shot and I can't wait to get back on the golf course. For others its simply not enough fun to keep going. There are a lot of things in life that require a lot of non fun times in order to have a chance at having a few fun times. It simply depends on how much you love thost chances at good times and how much you really love the game.

My youngest son, he followed the NMSU guy, gave up baseball in his HS junior year--he was a varsity starter but for whatever the reason(s)he just gave it up and never looked back and he was a heck of a player--he simply didn't want it--I had no problem with his decision at all

Well said TPM.

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"All it takes it one good shot and I can't wait to get back on the golf course."

Let the fun begin...






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Where can I get a driver like that? That could be the answer!

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Now he said to me that he feels he's gotten worse since they started practicing and thinks maybe his time would be better spent doing something else.

Two thoughts occur to me. The first is that the Fall practices are in fact work and he is not seeing an adequate "return on his investment" coming next Spring. And maybe, in concert with this timing, something else he could be doing looks interesting or spending time with "someone" else appears promising?

Or secondly, he's seeing the kids on the Roster for next year are much better than he and it's become obvious. It's one thing to work hard, while being able to compete and fulfill a needed team support role. But it's something entirely different to know you don't belong.

Also, it could be that he just wants to know that "he is in charge" of this baseball thing. He could be floating this out to see how you respond? It's part of his emerging independence.

My son tested me that way once that I can remember. I think he was being pulled by puberty, all the possibilities for his time, girls, etc, and he questioned whether he might just put baseball aside. I felt he was just "taking my temperature." I told him to think it over long and hard but I would support whatever it was that he decided to do! That thought passed in a day or two. He's beginning his first Fall season of College baseball and has never loved it more.

Good luck, Dad!!

Coach May is right, there are some that need a full role to feel the love, others don't care what role they play, it all means different things to different individuals.

We did things differently than lots of folks, up until his sophmore/junior year when things began to heat up, he very rarely played year round ball, he did other things, and he also worked. Many kids playing straight, 8-10 years before they leave HS can cause a burn out. They suddenly realize that they spent too much time while younger in the game when it was more important about having "fun" and then it's not fun anymore. I think that is why he never lost his love for playing, he had a balance in his life and is able to find that now, the few months he has to do so.

TPM thats a great point right there. You see these kids play year round from the time they are 8 years old sometimes younger. They do this all the way through high school. They then go to college and all of a sudden they are surrounded by things that they want to be a part of. The baseball is not stopping by the local eating establishment , hanging out at the pool and playing games all weekend. Its more like a job. I know this is off topic from the original op's post but it rings so true from what you posted.

Dont confuse the baseball you are used to to the baseball you will be part of. In many cases there is no comparison.

There are 2 pieces of advice I gave my kids concerning sports. One of my kids was a 3 year varsity starter, the other a perenial bench warmer.
1. Everyone has a bad time of it sometimes. Maybe today is not your day to shine. If it isn't, then find some other way to contribute. Be the loudest cheerleader or the best groundskeeper. Be the first to clean up after the game. Always find a way to contribute, even if it isn't on the field. Your turn will come.

2. Never let others take away your love of the game.

High school comes around once. While it is your son's decision whether or not to continue, try to find a way for him to explain how he is feeling. Maybe it is something you can work out together.

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Originally posted by OH BBMom:
There are 2 pieces of advice I gave my kids concerning sports. One of my kids was a 3 year varsity starter, the other a perenial bench warmer.
1. Everyone has a bad time of it sometimes. Maybe today is not your day to shine. If it isn't, then find some other way to contribute. Be the loudest cheerleader or the best groundskeeper. Be the first to clean up after the game. Always find a way to contribute, even if it isn't on the field. Your turn will come.

2. Never let others take away your love of the game.

High school comes around once. While it is your son's decision whether or not to continue, try to find a way for him to explain how he is feeling. Maybe it is something you can work out together.

Simply loved that post. A post for winners...

I spoke to my son whose in his second year of college and in a real fight for a starting position after being redshirted lasted year. The first words I asked him were, "Is it still fun?" Luckily he answered "yes". Having said that, there were at least two occasions when he was younger that he had little burnout periods. What we did was take some time off, not really talk about baseball(hard for me to do!) and then kid of ease back into things when he was ready. Sometimes a kid just needs to recharge his batteries and feel that he is the one making the decision. I would try to point out some things but I let him make the decision. Good luck either way!

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Gotta love the sport unconditionally to play in college because there are many,many days when it isn't fun....

could not agree more, but when deep down it isn't fun, then you move on. There is a difference.

Cheapseats, my son loves the game, has fun even when he isn't having fun...but when deep down it isn't fun anymore then it is time to move on.
When my son stopped playing football, and wanted to put all his efforts in baseball, we didn't like the idea one bit. We battled, and we let him make the decision, deep down football wasn't fun anymore, and it wasn't right for him to take a spot on the line from a kid who loved the game and it was still fun for. He has never looked back at football. Baseball has its up and down but, when he has a bad day, struck out, had an error, team lost whatever, he doesn't dwell on it, he keeps going because he is still having fun. Maybe not your definition of fun, but as long as he is on a team, and he does all he can to win even if they lose, he is stil having fun.

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The first words I asked him were, "Is it still fun?" Luckily he answered "yes".

That's what I'm talking about.

Momof1B -I was not trying to imply that your son was not having fun in HS or will not have fun in the future - just trying to pass on what I have learned from my sons experience - the college "grind" is a whole different world - it is so different from the high school baseball schedule that I can't even begin to compare the two. People tell you it is different but you can't imagine how much more is involved until you see first hand through your sons experience. That is why I said they have to love the sport unconditionally to play in college - it's a whole new ball game.

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just trying to pass on what I have learned from my sons experience - the college "grind" is a whole different world - it is so different from the high school baseball schedule that I can't even begin to compare the two. People tell you it is different but you can't imagine how much more is involved until you see first hand through your sons experience. That is why I said they have to love the sport unconditionally to play in college - it's a whole new ball game.

My player never thought playing baseball was fun. When I asked him that question when he was 10 he told me "Baseballs not fun its a lot of hard work,parties are fun."
Since he is still playing Id say its more of an obsession than fun.

Maybe Bas3balldad's son sees the writing on the wall and as a senior is embarrssed to play behind a underclassman. I don't think I would want to spend my senior spring sitting on a bench.

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Originally posted by fanofgame:
[QUOTE]just trying to pass on what I have learned from my sons experience - the college "grind" is a whole different world - it is so different from the high school baseball schedule that I can't even begin to compare the two. People tell you it is different but you can't imagine how much more is involved until you see first hand through your sons experience. That is why I said they have to love the sport unconditionally to play in college - it's a whole new ball game.

That statement is a "no - doubter"

But, as we've seen from the other thread discussing why College kids drop out we see that, in fact, they do sometimes get that far before they figure out baseball, at this level, isn't for them.

Understanding what is really going on within them is the key.

Is this just a period of frustration that will pass?
Have they realized they, in fact, can't compete at this level? Or, have they discovered that, in fact, they no longer WANT to give what is necessary to play at this or the next level?

Certainly, in the last couple of scenarios, it's (the game) no longer fun and it MAY be time to move on. In the former though, they may need support working through their feelings and the ramifications of the decision they may make at this point.

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Looking big picture....It's all "fun"...but there are two kinds of "fun"...

One of those is "thrills and spills": momentary joy and adrenaline rush. For lack of a better anology, the sprint. You can see the finish in front of you, the payoff. You can link he effort directly to the payoff. Win or lose the payoff is immediate.

The second of those is the long term comittment to a goal/dream, and the comittment to working hard and sacrificing to giving everything in/to that chase, the desire and willingness to grind to get what you want..long term. For lack of a better analogy the marathon. You can see no finish line, you have only faith and desire, a belief in process...and in that process in the long term. marathon are run as much for the lessons learned and the grind itself for the simply finish, as they are for the end time.

Each level of sports presents a dffferent mix of the two kinds of "fun". Each sport becomes more of a grind as one moves up. Each sport requires more of a buy in with less certainty of a payoff. Each individual decides where and when he wants to take on that grind. Beyond sport the same concept applies to academics, to career, to relationships. Decisions are made on the basis of passion and comittment. Baseball is but a single option in a much wider menu.

Part of the current challenge our kids face is a media and cmmmunication driven "celebrity society" that has been "twitterized". They are told that every action should have immediate payoff, an immediate thrill, an immeidate "shout out" to the world...that it is all a sprint. Hard to convince our son's that they is joy or value in a marathon, when they so often seem to be running long term alone. It's the tortise and the hare.

We have seen a couple guys this fall who got the first MLB at Bat at 30 or above. Will they make the big bucks? Will they stick? Likley not, but there is something wonderfully human to celebrate in the fact that they reached the finish line.

44
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Originally posted by cheapseats:
just trying to pass on what I have learned from my sons experience - the college "grind" is a whole different world - it is so different from the high school baseball schedule that I can't even begin to compare the two. People tell you it is different but you can't imagine how much more is involved until you see first hand through your sons experience. That is why I said they have to love the sport unconditionally to play in college - it's a whole new ball game.

Good stuff. The "grind" will not matter as much to kids who love the game. The problem is, they won't really "discover" if they love it "that much" until they advance to the next level past high school.

Look how the progression goes...

High School is typically 30 some odd games followed up by a summer of travel or tournament baseball. In many states, high school teams cannot practice together in the fall and most limit fall league participation to no more than four kids from the same high school on the respective fall team.

College is intense workouts in high heat for 1/2 of August followed by a rigorous fall practice season where spots are earned for the following spring. Weight lifting and conditioning follow all winter and spring practice starts in January. The spring season is 45-65 games depending on playoffs etc. This is followed by summer wood bat teams which typically play 50 games or more.

At the pro level, the work load is about double of that in college.

I once had a respected coach tell me that at the upper levels of the sport, "They will make you lose your love of the game!" I understand now what he was talking about and understand how it could happen - even to someone who indeed loves the game.

The fun part of baseball is getting kids out if you are a pitcher, clubbing your way on base for hitters, and generally helping your team win. The average fan only sees the fun part unless they are like me and show up hours before game time to view the "grind" close up

Loving the game means "putting up" with the grind. If you notice that your son enjoys the grind (i.e., he is a grinder), you might be looking at a player who has a bright future in the game somewhere down the road

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" 44 "

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Tremendous Posts! So much to learn from. There is not a better resource than this place, period. If your son has not gone through this. If your son aspires to go through this. Then don't argue with these guys. Don't be skeptical of these guys. Simply read what they are saying and let it all soak in.

A kid takes hundreds of swings. He works countless hours. Just to get his swing where he needs to get it. And then what is the pay off? Maybe its being in the starting line up every day. Maybe its getting 50 abs that season. Maybe its getting 20. But that guy getting 20 is going to put in the same amount of work as the guy that gets 200. He spends an hour in the weight room before the other students ever wake up. He showers and goes to class. He gets out of class and heads to the field. He works his butt off and then showers again. Grabs a quick bite to eat if there is time. Then heads to study hall. Grabs a quick bite to eat and then hits the books. Goes to sleep and does it all over again.

You have to have a love of the grind. You have to love it. Everyone loves the games. Everyone loves being the star. Everyone loves it when its all going good. But do you love it enough to grind? Do you love the grind?

The college season ends. You leave school on a Tuesday and you get one day at home. You leave for your summer team. And the grind starts all over again. Get up and head to the gym. Get your work out in that coach has put together for you. Head to the field. Get in your t work and your bp. Get your position work in. Take infield and play the game. Shower and get a bite to eat. Then get on line and work on your on line courses. Away games add in many times another 4 to 6 hours on the bus. Getting home at 1 or 2 in the morning. Having the discipline to get up in time to get in your work out. Then head back to the field.

Summer ball ends. Come home in many cases for a week or two sometimes less. Head back to school and do it all over again.

The grind is the love. Seeing the hards times as a badge of honor. Knowing that everyone can't do it but you can. Having pride in the fact that you are in the grind and you can grind just like everyone else. The respect that is shared by team mates and opponents alike. Knowing that no matter what your place on the team is you grind it out just like everyone else.

The most talented player I ever coached and I have been fortunate to coach some outstanding players. Players that are in the Major Leagues right now. The most talented player I ever coached LOVED to play the game. But he hated the grind. After being named one of the top prospects in the Rays minor league system walked away from the game. After having two straight tremendous years in MILB he walked away. "Coach its just not any fun anymore."

I knew in my heart that day was going to come very soon. He used to say the same thing in HS. "Coach I want to have fun and our practices are not fun. Lets scrimmage more and have more BP."

The most important thing a player can have in this game is a true love of the game. And that means a true love of the grind that it takes be successful in this game. Its kind of like that tough job you have to do. That job that you are sick and tired of and is kicking your as s while your doing it. But when you finish you sit back take a look and your so darn proud of what you just did. And you wouldnt take anything for the experience after its been accomplished.

CD and 44 those posts were awesome. Absolutely awesome stuff!

Coach May - you gave a great description, especially of the summer collegiate league experience - my son was in a collegiate league this past summer where he was fortunate to be placed on a team close to home where he was able to live at home (sort of!) for the summer - there were several days when my son got home from away road game and brought in the morning paper on his way in (5:30 or 6:00 am) only to catch a few hours of sleep then back to the field to do it all over again. It was a crazy schedule, he had about a hand full of days off all summer - the grind was really tough going on the away games on a day after you had pitched - you knew you wouldn't be pitching that night but you went anyway, even if it was a 6 hour bus ride each way because you are a part of the team and that's what teammates do - they support each other even when they know they aren't in the game plan for that day.

I agree with all the eloquent posts that have been made on this topic - you have to love the "grind" or it will wear you out!

This a great thread, with great posts from some of the most knowlegable people on this site.This is a GOLDEN

Last summer it was time for my son to move on.

Near the end of a week with my son in Stockton last August, he said, "Dad, I'm not coming back."

Those of you with sons in Milb know how weary all of the players are a few weeks before the end of the season. It's a little different than after the collegiate season, but similar to the end of the summer collegiate season.

I see that same weariness in the players this afternoon while watching the Rangers and the Mariners. It's part of baseball.

I told my son that he needed to wait to make the final decision when he had rested some after the end of the season.

He said, "Dad, I'm not coming back."

Maybe a tenth of a second off his throw down to second after surgery......

Maybe a step too slow on the base paths......

Maybe a struggle at the plate.........

Maybe the long bus ride down to Bakersfield......

Maybe the 75 mile 'commute' over to San Jose.....

Maybe the sixteen hour anticipated ride at AA Midland to Missouri..........

Maybe earlier round picks behind him..........

Maybe players he's played with already at MLB....

Maybe spending another year or two in MiLB and still never making it to the MLB.......

"Dad, if we could just play the games, it might be OK........"

If he played another year, he would have been 26 and still two years left of college, or 28 beginning another career.

Yes, he accomplished an amazing two years of college in three playing college baseball.

I've thought about many things that affect that decision, and, it seems that it is just best summed up as the grind.

I thought an end of the season move up to the AAA team for the playoffs might rejuvenate his interest.

But, it didn't.

"Dad, I don't want to play at the MLB level....."

Some of the recent posts talked about things the players have missed growing up.

That certainly applies to my son.

He's back in school. (Yes, it's funded by his MLB scholarship plan....)

Dove hunting.

Heading to New Orleans with his fiance this weekend.

Duck hunts scheduled. Maybe with TxMom's son.....

Yep, it impacted me more than I thought it might.

I've been reluctant to post here, looking for just the right place to post this. Not near the beginning of spring training, not near the end of spring training, not near the end of the season.

I don't think I have logged onto Milb even once, but I do read and enjoy the stories about Cleveland Dad's, itsinthegame's, TPM's son's, and all the others.

I watch more MLB than I ever have. But, that is the hardest thing for me. Seeing all of the players that he has played with and against over the years, still playing.

It's really hard not to wonder, what if?

So, I have an earned admiration for those that find success early in the game, and, those that enjoy longevity.

We had an amazing 18 year baseball ride with our sons.

But, it was time to move on.........

FO thanks for posting that. You know they all will hang them up one day. Some just sooner than others. Here is my hope. I hope that when my son does hang his up he will be at peace with it. He will have no regrets.

I hope he will want to go fishing with me. I hope he will want to go hunting with me. I hope he will want to take in a movie with me. I hope he will want to take in a game with me. I hope he will want to be my best friend.

I hope I get to be his best man one day. I hope I get to see that look in his eyes when his bride walks down that isle. I hope I get to hold his first child one day. I hope I get to play catch with him or her.

Our son's will play the game for a long time or a short time. But they will be our child our whole life. I hope I get to share in his life for the rest of my life. And I hope there are many more years after baseball to enjoy him.

Baseball is a wonderful game. But there is life after baseball. Much more life that is way more important than this game will ever be.

FormerObserver;

Your post certainly ties the thread together nicely. Nothing else should be added. All us Dad's want our sons to persevere and continue along the journey until they decide the end has come. They all will get there but at different places along the way. Your son traveled further than most and we Dad's share a sense of pride in our sons.

But when it does end, there are many other wonderful aspects of life to share; like their next Career, marriage, Grandchildren (they are too cool), watching games together, etc.

Thanks for saying all that at just a perfect time!

Best of Luck and Regards....

Thanks Coach May!

FO - Your post was very emotional and wonderfully written. Thanks for the kind wishes! All the best to Matt!

It should be noted that grinding for catchers is obviously at a different level than all other players.

Well just an update son had his 1st fall game. He didn't start in the field but was a DH then came in late for a couple innings in LF. Oddly they had him in the game for his hitting, last year he would be in for defense then be the 1st to be subbed out for a hitter. I watched thinking it may be the last game he plays. He had a couple nice doubles with rbi's then scored himself and another nice hit stolen by a nice play by CF. I was happy he had a nice game waited for him after the game I expecting something else he comes up and says he needs new batting gloves.
I ask him on the way home about why he was thinking of quitting. Basically it came down to frustration and not feeling wanted. My son is the type of kid that better with instruction if you tell him what to work on and how to fix it he'll work on it day and night till he gets better. This new coach tells him he does stuff wrong but no instruction on how to fix it. When he does talk to the coach he feels uncomfortable. He says he feels the coach talks to him like he's made him angry somehow he doesn't really know why. I've never meet or spoke with the coach so I can only take him at his world. I will say listening during the game that he uses more foul language than I'm used to from a HS coach.
Anyway maybe playing a game is what he needed cause he seems to be ready to work through it. Thanks for all the great advice. I'm sure I'll need more before it's over.

Well apperently the coach decided it was time for him to move on. The new head coach has quit to take a job at a JC. They don't know who is going to coach the team yet the assistant coach is running practices so far.

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Originally posted by Bas3balldad:
Well apperently the coach decided it was time for him to move on. The new head coach has quit to take a job at a JC. They don't know who is going to coach the team yet the assistant coach is running practices so far.

ABSOLUTELY brutal! I'm glad to see from your previous update, things were heading in a more positive direction. Maybe a coaching change is just what the DR ordered. Maybe not, either way your positive influence and love in his life is much more important. Good job Dad!!!

GED10DaD