My son is starting to get some attention from some of the schools on his list. Unfortunately, he is not a great student. One thing he has been asked about is his SAT scores. I am struggling with when he should take these. he just started his junior year, so if it were not for baseball, it would be next spring as a first pass. But now I am thinking he needs to take it this fall. But at the same time, will they have covered enough this early in 11th grade to have any chance of being successful?
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Depends on the curriculum that he has taken in school, but so long as he is taking at least a middle of the road course load, I would guess they have covered what is needed. I would take them ASAP to get a sense as to where he is. Did he take the PSAT? That would be an indicator as well. The important thing is his preparation. Buy or otherwise access SAT prep materials and have him get to work ASAP reviewing materials and taking practice tests. If you can afford it and are interested, Princeton Review also has online, live instructor led or self guided test prep offerings. My son spent about half of August (including while on the road at camps and showcases) before his junior year preparing for the SAT (which he took in Nov and December), and it paid off.
Your son has the fortune or misfortune of being a 2017 recruit. Why I say that is the SAT is changing this March. What does that mean? There are a lot of questions out there. People through testing services recommend not even taking the old SAT until March. The test itself, and scoring format will change. Some believe that current SATs will basically not have much merit until you take the new one. He should probably concentrate on the ACT which is more straightforward and less tricky, some schools only use the ACT. These tests are for profit businesses and more people are taking the ACT and avoiding the SAT, so SAT is having to evolve due to lost market share. The inside word is that the new SAT will be less "tricky" in their questions and be more straight forward on assessing the knowledge you have obtained from your classes. Even after March there may be some test altering as they work out some of the grading and testing. Expect to have to take the SAT multiple times, with March possibly being a "test" run. Our current plan is Kaplan unlimited, concentrate on ACT this Fall and Winter, the concentrate on SAT Spring and Summer if needed.
Great points made by SWV. I had forgotten about the change in format. I guess my son was lucky in that he took the SAT the year before the change. ACT is a very good option and has been gaining ground on SAT. Only caution is that I don't think it is quite that simple. Some students score better on ACT vs. SAT and vice-a-versa. So, who knows if the ACT will play to his strength?. Unfortunately, there is not a simple answer or clear path.
My son is starting to get some attention from some of the schools on his list. Unfortunately, he is not a great student. One thing he has been asked about is his SAT scores. I am struggling with when he should take these. he just started his junior year, so if it were not for baseball, it would be next spring as a first pass. But now I am thinking he needs to take it this fall. But at the same time, will they have covered enough this early in 11th grade to have any chance of being successful?
Have him talk to the baseball coach. Around my parts, that Saturday morning of the test is usually free from athletic contests to kids can take the test.
My own take is that he should take the test when he is ready. And definitely take a prep course. I keep hearing about kids who take the test multiple times. That's ok if you screw up and get a bad score. But my approach would be to bust a$$ and take it once.
Definitely take an ACT or SAT soon so you can see where he is at. It will show what areas he needs work on, and he can take prep courses to help him score better. may need to take these tests several times. Some think if student scores say 20 on ACT and then takes a prep course they can get a 25 next time. Very RARE to get that big a jump. Some kids don't test well so it takes a lot of work. Good luck
Sunwalking Valley, I don't believe that your point about some schools taking only ACT is correct. I also don't believe that schools will discount results from the "old" SAT when the "new" SAT comes out. The only downside in taking the old SAT now is that if a kid likes it and does well in it, he can't retake after January when the new test is released.
RE the OP, a HS junior on a normal academic track should be ready to take a flier at either test. One thing about the ACT -- according to a test prep teacher we've used, it's a much more difficult test in terms of time management than the old SAT. Something to consider for some students.
Take both test (SAT and ACT) multiple times if necessary. Many schools super score the test (they take your highest score by subject).
My son is starting to get some attention from some of the schools on his list. Unfortunately, he is not a great student. One thing he has been asked about is his SAT scores. I am struggling with when he should take these. he just started his junior year, so if it were not for baseball, it would be next spring as a first pass. But now I am thinking he needs to take it this fall. But at the same time, will they have covered enough this early in 11th grade to have any chance of being successful?
Maybe a JUCO experience might better serve your player. If he hasnt done well in class, he may get the same results from standarized testing.
I suggest the ACT as well. Until he either raises his GPA or takes tests, he wont get much attention, unless he throws way over 90 or hits bombs.
Take both test (SAT and ACT) multiple times if necessary. Many schools super score the test (they take your highest score by subject).
Totally agree...
...and, Golfman, I respectfully disagree with the strategy of just taking it once. Yes, there are circumstances when taking it once is a no brainer (player is a total stud/"elite" category and just needs to check the box, school's SAT/ACT bar is not that high, player is not academic focused, etc.), but in the vast majority of the cases..when the scores do matter and will move the needle for a kid (get him more academic $$ or make him more attractive as a recruit), it makes sense to take them multiple times. It's been proven that, on average, students increase by "X" (not sure what it is, can look it up, but I think it is 40 or 50 points) the second time they take the SAT. (Anecdotal, but my son took the SAT 2x, in back to back months - November then December - and scored over 100 points higher...did no extra prep work..just happened to have a good day at the office). Also, it could be the "luck of the draw", as the actual material test changes session by session. One SAT test may have more material on it that happens to be in his "power alley". Further, how does one know if they "nailed" it with nothing to compare it to? Maybe they can do even better the 2nd time and REALLY enhance their attractiveness to certain schools. (many..actually...because they all care about SAT scores). Taking these tests more than once simply increases your odds of achieving your best - at no cost (other than registration fees, of course), because the vast majority of schools only take your best scores anyway. FWIW, I do concede that a 3rd time is probably not worth it. Logic may suggest is would be but the statistics show otherwise.
Take both test (SAT and ACT) multiple times if necessary. Many schools super score the test (they take your highest score by subject).
Totally agree...
...and, Golfman, I respectfully disagree with the strategy of just taking it once. Yes, there are circumstances when taking it once is a no brainer (player is a total stud/"elite" category and just needs to check the box, school's SAT/ACT bar is not that high, player is not academic focused, etc.), but in the vast majority of the cases..when the scores do matter and will move the needle for a kid (get him more academic $$ or make him more attractive as a recruit), it makes sense to take them multiple times. It's been proven that, on average, students increase by "X" (not sure what it is, can look it up, but I think it is 40 or 50 points) the second time they take the SAT. (Anecdotal, but my son took the SAT 2x, in back to back months - November then December - and scored over 100 points higher...did no extra prep work..just happened to have a good day at the office). Also, it could be the "luck of the draw", as the actual material test changes session by session. One SAT test may have more material on it that happens to be in his "power alley". Further, how does one know if they "nailed" it with nothing to compare it to? Maybe they can do even better the 2nd time and REALLY enhance their attractiveness to certain schools. (many..actually...because they all care about SAT scores). Taking these tests more than once simply increases your odds of achieving your best - at no cost (other than registration fees, of course), because the vast majority of schools only take your best scores anyway. FWIW, I do concede that a 3rd time is probably not worth it. Logic may suggest is would be but the statistics show otherwise.
Well here is the act "improvement" chart.
http://www.actstudent.org/faq/more.html
Things have definitely changed since I was a kid. In researching the chart I have learned that you can delete scores, only submit the score you want, "superscores", etc. Seems like it is watered down to me. No wonder we are so soft these days.
I would still focus on taking it once. Do everything you can to get your best score. If you can get a top score, you're done. If it doesn't work out, you can go again.
Great idea. Part of what I want to know if how well he would score. This will at least give me some idea.
Thanks everyone. There are some schools asking for his SAT scores now. He did not take the PSATs, so he has nothing to show....
My son took the SAT's 3 times and the ACT once. Persistence does pay off.
Just doing some simple searches, act will allow you to delete a score. You can't submit a score that doesn't exist. You can also indicate which score you want submitted which is why some schools want all scores.
Most high school students planning to go to college will take the SAT for the first time in the spring of their junior year or the fall of their senior year. Those planning on potentially taking it more than once should probably take it the first time by the spring of their junior year. My niece took it three times and improved significantly each time. Most of what one would need to know would normally have been learned in school by spring of junior year (and perhaps earlier). I don’t know if being a baseball player would suggest a different schedule, however.
As mentioned by other posters, 2017 grads face an interesting decision on which test to take: the "New" SAT, the "Old" SAT, or the ACT. Although one could take all of these, doing so would place quite a burden on a high school student, so I would recommend figuring out which of these tests is more suited to the OP’s son. All of these tests are scaled, meaning scores indicate how the test taker did relative to all others taking the test. Thus, whether one test would be considered harder or easier is not really important, but rather which test the test taker’s talents match up best with is. This is like choosing which court surface to choose to play a tennis match: for some grass would be better and for some clay would be a better match.
The "Old" SAT has three portions, math, reading, and writing each with a score range of 200-800 (for a total of 2400), whereas the "New" SAT test has two sections each with a score range of 200-800 (for a total of 1600). For the "New" SAT, reading and writing are combined and math still remains a different test. For this reason, it is my opinion that students who perform relatively better (relative to other students) in math as compared to reading and writing may fare better taking the "New" SAT as opposed to the old one. Also, those students who really enjoy reading and that have a well-developed vocabulary may do better on the "Old" SAT, since it still includes a significant portion of "vocabulary-type" questions as compared to the "New" SAT. The "New" SAT starts in March 16, after which the "Old" SAT will no longer be offered. As for ACT/SAT, the advice I have found must persuasive is to take a full length practice test of each and decide based on that which is better to the student’s strengths and then go with that test.
I’m assuming the OP’s son is a rising junior. One path to consider is to take the PSAT in October, which would be the typical schedule to take the PSAT. This year’s PSAT will be according to the "New" SAT format. This would provide the opportunity to get some practice in before taking the SAT or ACT and could help him decide which test might be the better match.
Once again, Fenway nails it. There is some questionable advice being thrown around here. Comments about what "most others" do or "what is normally done". No, no, no. If you take that route, good luck to you, but you will be in a crowded mess trying/hoping to get noticed. If your son is aspirational, have him get to work early and spend time preparing the summer before junior year and take the ACT or SAT that fall. Get ahead of the stinkin' game (its a helluva competitive, cut throat game, as we all know). Regardless of your son's academic abilities or athletic abilities, have him call and/or email those coaches in November of junior year and say, "Coach, I am sending you my SAT scores, and [I think you will be impressed as I did really well] or [I think my score is fine, but I am going to take them again as I know I can improve.]" Think about how impressed that coach will be. If your son aspires to a high academic school, one of the most important boxes that needs to be checked can be checked early. Or, even if he is trying to just meet the threshold SAT or ACT score for that power conference / big state school that has his eye on him, take that doubt off the table early. Could lead to an earlier offer and commitment, again, in a crowded market where the dollars are scarce.
I may be wrong, but I believe that even SAT will tell you that the majority of HS students will have covered the material on the SAT by the time they start junior year. But, even if they don't, there are many ways to get smart for the test if one takes the initiative. Anything from inexpensive online (used??) books on eBay or Amazon all the way up to classroom or online, instructor led training that requires a total of...I don't know...30 or 40 hours (including practice and study time on your own) in total. I am pretty sure that most public HS even offer free SAT prep materials. Over 2.5 months leading up to the exam, that is about 3-5 hours per week, folks. Think about how much time most kids spend playing games online, watching TV or, in a baseball player's case, sitting in a hotel room with down time at a tournament. July and August before his junior year, my son spent about 50-75% of his down time on the road at tournaments preparing for SATs, taking practice exams. He still made most of the team dinners and had fun with his boys, but he probably missed most of the other shenanigans that others were partaking in. Being resourceful and industrious early can really, really go a long way.
One thing I did not see mentioned - there is a growing list of schools that do not require SAT/ACT scores for admissions, including many of the higher academic colleges/universities. You can find a list at fairtest.org. The OP indicated his son wasn't the strongest student up to now. It might be better to focus on raising his GPA and look at some of the test optional programs rather than spend a significant amount of time (and possibly money) studying for a test.
Advanced students are well served taking the SATs earlier rather than later. The tests have little, if any, trig. or calc. and the student will want to take these tests as close to their related course work as possible. Our son took the test the spring after his sophomore year. Knowing the results gave him an early edge on being able to plan for what he needed to work on for the next testing, as well as a cushion of time should something arise that prevented him from taking a test or should he perform poorly for some reason. Having good scores early has gotten him many more academic opportunities than he would have had, and some baseball interest from high academic D3s that have yet to see him play. It makes no sense to delay it. If you do poorly you get a clear read on what to work on and if you do well you have another asset to sell.
Good luck,
Ted
When JP was a junior, he took the ACT in the fall. That December, he went to a camp for the D1 he wanted to attend. They'd seen him in Jupiter, and knew he was coming.
Either at the camp or within hours (can't recall), they asked him for his HS GPA and SAT/ACT scores. When he told them, they made the offer within hours (which, like so many scholarship offers, was combined baseball/academic).
I'll never know what would've happened if he'd not taken the test. Would his GPA have been enough? Maybe, maybe not.
Your son can always retake the test, so my two cents: Giterdun!
Honestly people some of you just don't know enough on this subject to comment....First the SAT is being overhauled this year. That means taking the SAT this winter is really a waste of your kid's time. The new test is going to start next spring and it is going to be much closer to the ACT. Your son should take the SAT next March and then again in June and then again in Sept or October. If a coach wants a score give them the PSAT. Second, my son goes to what is considered one of the 10 best high schools in the country. His counselors are quite smart. They would tell you that no school NONE prefers the SAT over the ACT or vice versa. Either is fine. Third, do not ask your kid to take both. Choose one. Fourth, if you want to know about a school's true admit numbers google the school and the words "common data set". Those are the true numbers for admits, ED, SAT and ACT scores and midranges etc. If you kid is a great player they can fall below the midrange and get in. If you kid is a good player they need to be midrange. If you don't know what you are talking about don't comment!
Honestly people some of you just don't know enough on this subject to comment....First the SAT is being overhauled this year. That means taking the SAT this winter is really a waste of your kid's time. The new test is going to start next spring and it is going to be much closer to the ACT. Your son should take the SAT next March and then again in June and then again in Sept or October. If a coach wants a score give them the PSAT. Second, my son goes to what is considered one of the 10 best high schools in the country. His counselors are quite smart. They would tell you that no school NONE prefers the SAT over the ACT or vice versa. Either is fine. Third, do not ask your kid to take both. Choose one. Fourth, if you want to know about a school's true admit numbers google the school and the words "common data set". Those are the true numbers for admits, ED, SAT and ACT scores and midranges etc. If you kid is a great player they can fall below the midrange and get in. If you kid is a good player they need to be midrange. If you don't know what you are talking about don't comment!
To whom are you targeting your comments? FWIW, when I say SAT, I meant SAT or ACT. Was pretty clear with this above when I said.."have him get to work early and spend time preparing the summer before junior year and take the ACT or SAT that fall." Also, coaches - especially Ivy coaches - cannot run a PSAT score by admissions and get a "wink and a nod" to make a verbal offer. I will send you a PM (direct dialogue) with some facts. Let's just say I've navigated the process a time or two. Trust me when I say I know what I am talking about....and so do others who have actually experienced it.
Honestly people some of you just don't know enough on this subject to comment....... If you don't know what you are talking about don't comment!
Also, Rae50, I'm not sure how long you've been visiting and commenting on this site, but there is a lot of mutual respect and a ton of knowledge shared amongst posters. Yes, we have debates and some become heated at times, but it is done respectfully. To just jump in here and "pop off" and tell folks they don't know what they are talking about...well...it is just not how we roll. You can post and post and say what you want, but..that just ain't how we roll. This, by the way, is aside from the fact that you are just wrong in your assertion. See my PM.
With all due respect Bucs Fan, your Ivy League experience, yours and your son's, don't seem relevant here because this man is saying his son is NOT a strong student. The worst thing a weaker student can do is take an early SAT.....If you get a low score, there are some schools that require that you send EVERY score which means you will have to send that one. Look, my son has a high score too so I don't see his experience as relevant for this man either. What is important for him to understand is that the SAT is fundamentally changing, the ACT may be a better option or not, he can wait until spring 2017 to take the test.....Most kids do not take the tests fall of junior year. My son's school tells only the Harvard-headed kids to do that. This man needs to know his son can wait and also take the time to figure out which test to take. No coach will walk away from real talent because there is no SAT score until April 2017.
With all due respect Bucs Fan, your Ivy League experience, yours and your son's, don't seem relevant here because this man is saying his son is NOT a strong student. The worst thing a weaker student can do is take an early SAT.....If you get a low score, there are some schools that require that you send EVERY score which means you will have to send that one. Look, my son has a high score too so I don't see his experience as relevant for this man either. What is important for him to understand is that the SAT is fundamentally changing, the ACT may be a better option or not, he can wait until spring 2017 to take the test.....Most kids do not take the tests fall of junior year. My son's school tells only the Harvard-headed kids to do that. This man needs to know his son can wait and also take the time to figure out which test to take. No coach will walk away from real talent because there is no SAT score until April 2017.
Do not agree with your advice here. Take it early as you can too see where you are and what you need to work on. Unless your kid is a total stud (draft prospect) coaches do care. The kids that do not take it by fall of junior year or sooner is IMO making a mistake.
With all due respect Bucs Fan, your Ivy League experience, yours and your son's, don't seem relevant here because this man is saying his son is NOT a strong student. The worst thing a weaker student can do is take an early SAT.....If you get a low score, there are some schools that require that you send EVERY score which means you will have to send that one. Look, my son has a high score too so I don't see his experience as relevant for this man either. What is important for him to understand is that the SAT is fundamentally changing, the ACT may be a better option or not, he can wait until spring 2017 to take the test.....Most kids do not take the tests fall of junior year. My son's school tells only the Harvard-headed kids to do that. This man needs to know his son can wait and also take the time to figure out which test to take. No coach will walk away from real talent because there is no SAT score until April 2017.
Perhaps you haven't taken the time to read what I submitted above and/or perhaps you've not seen that many baseball recruits go through a recruiting cycle. It has nothing to do with Ivy or not, but nice try on that. Below in bold quotes are excerpts from what I've posted above that counter your assertions:
"I had forgotten about the change in format....ACT is a very good option and has been gaining ground on SAT. Only caution is that I don't think it is quite that simple. Some students score better on ACT vs. SAT and vice-a-versa. So, who knows if the ACT will play to his strength?. Unfortunately, there is not a simple answer or clear path"
"...Did he take the PSAT? That would be an indicator as well..."
More importantly....
I was pretty clear that whether a player is aspiring toward a high academic school or not (a "weaker student", as you like to call them), it still pays to know where one stands. Yes, many schools require students to submit all scores. But, did you actually think through whether or not that will hurt a baseball recruit or, do you just not have as much experience with how this goes down??? I haven't researched it, but I do believe that most of the schools that require students to submit all scores are on the "high academic" end of the spectrum anyway? If my assumption is correct, then your logic falls apart, as those "weaker students" (again, your label) likely are not applying to the schools that have a more rigorous application process and will not allow them to submit only their best scores. Even if my assumption is entirely incorrect (pretty sure it is not), those schools will still focus on and give a recruit credit for his highest score (or super score), especially if the baseball coach has anything to say about it. Further, isn't there something to be said for old fashioned hard work and perseverance? If a baseball recruit takes the ACT in the fall and gets a 23 (again, to see where he stands, practice, etc.), and then takes it again in Spring and gets a 26, don't you think there is a story to be told there by the applicant and the coach?: "Hey, this kid fell short the first time but worked his tail off...sure says a lot about his make up." Something tells me that might fly with admissions. I know several situations where coaches were asking borderline academic players to take the ACT or SAT early and then suggesting they take it again. I know very well a stud C who wanted to attend a certain service academy. He is a very average student and does not do well on standardized tests. That said, this academy wanted him badly, because he can play and really projects. They advised him to take the ACT (or SAT but he chose ACT) "early and often" to see if he could hit their hurdle. So, your comment that "The worst thing a weaker student can do is take an early SAT...." is just flat out wrong. May be true for a "weaker student" but certainly not for a "weaker student who is also a baseball recruit."
The other flaw in your suggested approach to waiting until Spring is based solely on timing for a baseball recruit. This is HSbaseballweb after all. So, again, perhaps your logic applies to a typical student or a even football player / fall athlete. But, it otherwise falls short from a timing perspective in a couple of ways:
1. Spring is by far the busiest time of year for a baseball player who aspires to play in college, so why put the added pressure of having to prepare and get a great ACT or SAT score at your first sitting right in the middle of baseball season; and
2. If a "weaker student" who aspires to play baseball does fall short the first time and has to wait until..what...Fall of senior year??! to take it again. Are you kidding? Do you know how many coveted roster spots (vast majority of D1s) are already spoken for by then? Sure, a kid who is stud and ranked in PG's top 250 in the nation can wait, but most cannot. There are just too many good players out there to choose from (who will already have the score that the school needs to offer).
Best of luck as you navigate the waters. I'd be happy to help in anyway.
Take the tests as early and as prepared as possible. Decide which test best suits him - use practice tests under testing circumstances; go over the results with a fine tooth comb to pick out strengths/weaknesses. Begin the process as early as possible - the earlier and more a kid hears about the test the more time you have to fix (as best as can be done) the weaknesses which will be revealed. End of ninth grade, summer before tenth grade isn't too early. For example, if a parent realizes in ninth grade that kid needs a greater working knowledge on how to read graphs (an ACT standard), that is a teachable skill given enough time. Diagnose the problems early, and a lot can be done.
Treat the tests with the same or greater seriousness (and convey that seriousness to the kid) as you would treat the path of baseball prep you're following to college ball.
As for how many times to take it, when you get the score you need you, stop; but, based upon the preparation/practice tests, a parent should have a realistic idea of an achievable score. S got his the first time out; D got hers on the third try. They go to the same college.
It seems that there are advantages to early taking of the SAT/ACT from a baseball recruiting standpoint. And I suppose reasonable minds could differ on whether there is any (or any significant) downside to scoring poorly on an earlier-than-normal taking of such a test if the student improves on a later taking of the test. I would think that any such disadvantage, however, would be limited to applicants to colleges that require reporting of all SAT/ACT scores of a student rather than reporting of just the scores selected by the student (e.g., The College Board Score Choice system for the SAT).
For those concerned that a lower score could hurt and when that might occur, here is a list of about 100 colleges that do require submission of all SAT test scores
,according to a popular test prep site (http://blog.prepscholar.com/co...scores-complete-list). Many of these are "highly selective" colleges from an academic standpoint (e.g., Stanford, Yale, Rice), but many are not. And for folks located in California (lots of baseball going on there), the entire University of California system is included in the colleges that require reporting of all SAT scores for an applicant.
A recruiting coach Won't care weather or not you scored low on previous ACT or SAT scores. He is hoping to get you in and through admissions. If you are only talking about high academic schools and you are not a recruit then it might matter Depending on the school. I assume everyone on this board is looking to play baseball in college.
A recruiting coach Won't care weather or not you scored low on previous ACT or SAT scores. He is hoping to get you in and through admissions. If you are only talking about high academic schools and you are not a recruit then it might matter Depending on the school. I assume everyone on this board is looking to play baseball in college.
Boom! Yahtzee! Bingo!
About 10 years ago, I asked this very question of a college coach (Dean Stotz, now retired Assoc Heat Coach of Stanford) whom I have great respect for. His advice was "Have your guys take the SAT in March, and again in May of their Junior year. That way, they'll have their scores by the summer of their rising senior year". What he meant was that you'll have your scores by early summer so that when a coach asks your SAT score, you'll have it. You also won't be taking the test the first Saturday in June, when there are typically some good showcases going on.
With thy the above in mind, my team now sponsors an SAT prep course with Kaplan that begins right after the holidays and finishes by end of February. It has worked very well.
If son has taken ACT test and done ok but not great (27), and you already have started tutoring for the next test later this fall, should you report the 27, or hold off reporting with the hope that the next test will be stronger? Son is a 2017.
I think that depends on who you're talking too. If your son's emailing with a NWC school, for example, and coaches were showing concern about test scores, I'd say he should share the 27, along with his plans to retest, because that's probably a high enough score to put that issue to rest at most or all of those schools. If he was talking to somebody more like Amherst or JHU, then I think he should say he'll have a score in the spring. Just MHO.
