I get that there are tough coaches and sometimes they can be blunt and say hurtful things. Where does one draw the line though? Is it ever okay to point out or mock a player's race?
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I can’t think of a reason to mock. Pointing it out could be a poor way of communicating a point. From your post, it seems like it was a bad experience overall. We had a coach that was bringing some other issues (external issues) to the field and exploding on the kids occasionally. It’s why he became a former coach.
Coaches are human and will make errors in communicating. I’d say if it’s his norm rather than a rare exception, it’s worthwhile discussing it with others in the trust tree and then speaking to the principal/dean/AD or whoever is above the coach so that it gets addressed.
@Momball11 posted:I get that there are tough coaches and sometimes they can be blunt and say hurtful things. Where does one draw the line though? Is it ever okay to point out or mock a player's race?
I coached HS ball for 38 years and was the HC in 4 sports. Not once did I refer to race. That, IMO, crosses the line but I don't know any coach who would do that. It might cost them their teaching jobs if they are teachers. This is a serious accusation so if/when you take this to the AD, be sure you have the facts.
Mocking or disparaging anyone for any trait that’s physical or unchangeable is unacceptable and a sign of ignorance and/or malice. It can be handled discreetly, but it needs to be addressed head on…
@Momball11 posted:I get that there are tough coaches and sometimes they can be blunt and say hurtful things. Where does one draw the line though? Is it ever okay to point out or mock a player's race?
No. It's ignorant. Its never acceptable (even for the President of the United States) to mock someone's race or heritage.
One of my favorite posts ever on HSBBW:
https://community.hsbaseballwe...215#2982475074909215
Read the whole thread. It's from 2005, 20 years ago, seems like an eternity. It's about a specific incident, perhaps not directly related to this, but there's plenty of food for thought presented by all sides in a thoughtful way.
This is a difficult situation. As a player is it worth saying something discretely to the coach? Coach's words/actions were definitely not appropriate, but having had to deal with this sort of thing for a lifetime, I know it's sometimes easier to just pretend like it never happened. With it being the coach it sort of teaches the other players that this is acceptable behavior. So there were several other players that found it amusing, but there was one kid who did acknowledge what had happened wasn't appropriate. It's not something that my son would want anyone to lose their job over or to receive a lifetime label of being a racist. People make mistakes and some people don't know better. I think at this point we just tell him to make note of the incidence and leave it be. No need to potentially risk retaliatory behavior from the coach. Educate your kids to be like the one kid who was able to recognize that mocking someone's race is never appropriate.
It’s never acceptable and likely illegal. But before acting on the behavior consider the potential results and how it affects the athlete.
There are situations where life became difficult for athlete and/or their parents for getting a winning and/or popular coach fired.
IMO the line is drawn at not making it personal. Coaching hard is fine - in fact there are times when it’s necessary. Mocking or belittling a player is not fine. I know that some coaches do it and I don’t understand how they don’t know they are out of bounds. I worked under a coach that was guilty of that behavior and I couldn’t stand it. A lot of what I did was following behind him to clean up the messes he made. It’s an indication of a program that doesn’t have a good culture. And coaches that behave poorly usually have a reputation for doing so if you don’t personally witness it yourself. I have never known it to be a secret - or even something that was difficult to find out. IMO opinion you are more likely to encounter this in Junior College than anywhere else. There is usually zero oversight in JuCo programs so as parents and players you have to really vet the HC of any program you are considering. This is true at every level of baseball but especially true in JuCo.
My son also faced this in HS through to the professional level (at least in the minors). There is no one right way to handle it (IMHO) and more often than not requires our boys to be the bigger men even if they are decades younger than the coach. However, at the high school level, if it is persistent, if the behavior is mirrored or adopted by a majority of the team, and if it negatively impacts opportunities for your son, action may be warranted. Decide with your son what that looks like. More than anything, we have to prepare them for the world as it is and one of things they will have to deal with is ignorance. I still firmly believe there is far more good in the world than bad.
Yes it happens. Son had a HC in AA who probably shouldn't have been a HC.
College baseball is tough and coaches have to be careful with the words they choose.
However, nowadays if a player doesnt like their situation they can enter the transfer portal.
PT;
Consider the source of the Coach's weakness. He has NO confidence in his ability to lead the team.
Before a game when Coach's exchange line-up, I would send up a player for the line-up exchange.
Bob
@Momball11 posted:I get that there are tough coaches and sometimes they can be blunt and say hurtful things. Where does one draw the line though? Is it ever okay to point out or mock a player's race?
#1, if you have a witness, it's worth taking it to a higher level.
#2, if you don't have a witness, there’s little you can do because it's a fight you can never win.
#3, that all said, if it's a college coach, even if you have a witness, do nothing because you can never win.
Other option is: Next time it happens, instruct the player to come right out and confront the coach with the question: "Do you have an issue with my race? If you do, I would like to hear exactly what it is."
I would bet that the coach back pedals in a hurry.
If we are in the presence of any ism (race, sex, age, religion, etc.) and say or do nothing, then we are complicit and propagating it through acceptance. We’re not aways in a position to safely address the issue, but we should if we can.
@Francis7 posted:#1, if you have a witness, it's worth taking it to a higher level.
#2, if you don't have a witness, there’s little you can do because it's a fight you can never win.
#3, that all said, if it's a college coach, even if you have a witness, do nothing because you can never win.
Other option is: Next time it happens, instruct the player to come right out and confront the coach with the question: "Do you have an issue with my race? If you do, I would like to hear exactly what it is."
I would bet that the coach back pedals in a hurry.
I so want to encourage this immediate confrontation next time it happens, but I fear the call out would result in retaliatory action. This is at the college level, there's multiple witnesses as this happened during practice. I also fear that if my son were to bring up the issue to the AD, he would forever be labelled as a kid that no coach would ever want because he was the one that spoke up.
Again, make sure that what was said was intended to insult. One year, we had a player who struggled with cold weather. The coach I was working for made a comment that said player really struggled when it was cold. Somehow, that was turned into a racial comment. In fact, the coach often said that he, himself, really struggled when it was cold. Thank goodness that this did not get blown out of proportion. That coach still says that he struggles when it is cold.
@Momball11 posted:I so want to encourage this immediate confrontation next time it happens, but I fear the call out would result in retaliatory action. This is at the college level, there's multiple witnesses as this happened during practice. I also fear that if my son were to bring up the issue to the AD, he would forever be labelled as a kid that no coach would ever want because he was the one that spoke up.
Yeah, I would say, at the college level, you're screwed. If a coach is winning, he's a czar and holds all the cards. It's probably worse now with all the transfers. The pipeline is so full of replacement players that a player on the roster is easily disposable. Plus, college rosters are deep. There's always an immediate replacement too. These HC can basically do and say whatever they want since they hold all the cards.
Sorry that your son has to deal with it.
There is no place for racism in sports. The coach must all players make feeling safe and even if 18 guys laugh and only one feels offended it is still not OK.
I would like to ask what kind of racism it was? It is never OK, but to me it is different whether you say something like Asians can't drive/white guys can't dance or whether you use really evil stereotypes (like black people are thugs...) or even slurs.
The former shouldn't happen too frequently either but I think it can be overlooked if it occasionally happens but the latter shouldn't be tolerated even once.
@Dominik85 I sent you a PM.