Where is College/HS Baseball on This?

I think most would agree it's just a scum move. The nod/no nod, even just barking at opposing players in general. That being said if your son wants to charge the mound or let the coach know he's a POS after the game that's his business. There are things that you have to take in to your own hands some times. A lot of people are in the violence is never the answer camp, I'm not in that camp. The pitcher getting tossed on his head would probably have him reconsider throwing at a player again. Especially in a meaningless summer league game. Go for it. 

Players usually know what needs to be done without the coach telling them. The coach is opening himself up to a lot of legal liability by openly ordering a player to be hit. What if the coach openly ordered the hit and the batter got seriously injured? If the pitcher does it on his own while it may be obvious what he’s doing he can claim the pitch got away.

The real solution is don’t pimp on another team. A player can upset an opponent just hitting a homer and being happy about it. In college summer ball I busted out laughing rounding third (opponents dugout side) hearing all the crap from the four punks I knew it would come from. I’m sure I was smiling rounding second. Just laughing pissed them off more.

Kid displays displeasure when Ks, kid pimps when he hits a HR, kid gets plunked.  I love baseball!

CTbballDad posted:

Kid displays displeasure when Ks, kid pimps when he hits a HR, kid gets plunked.  I love baseball!

One summer I’m 3-3 (two singles and a triple) off a hothead   6’7” mid 90’s max pitcher. He drills me in the ribs the fourth time up. I could barely breathe it hurt so badly.

The next summer we’re teammates. He explained he was so pissed he figured by drilling me in the ribs at least I wouldn't be running on the bases.  

This was just a case of a hitter inexplicably seeing the ball well off a difficult pitcher and the pitcher getting real pissed about it.

These are college baseball players and coaches.  Among other things, they are all generally competitive SOB's and this is still competitive baseball.  I have my preferences but I also understand the nature of the beast.  I could also see where the coach, right or wrong, may be more inclined to dictate the course of action with something like this in summer ball.  These guys have only been together as a group for a month so maybe not so clear on proper rules of engagement in battle with this new group of soldiers.

You pimp, you get hit whether today, tomorrow, or next week.  Part of baseball.  That is how it is handled in baseball.  There is no other way to handle it.  I know guys who say you handle it by striking him out but others say you handle it by putting one in the ribs.  I don't think the coach should have to say do it but it may be that he was also teaching his kids how to act.  As I tell mine, when you show out you know it will come back on you at some point.  Act like you have been there.  Mine has shown out before and had to deal with the consequences.  Part of baseball. 

Fun responses thanks... don't know that I can be convinced, not that anyone is trying to, that throwing at a hitter with a potential outcome being injury is a proportional response to a pitcher getting his feelings hurt...but that is what makes the discussion entertaining... 

LaunchAngle posted:

Fun responses thanks... don't know that I can be convinced, not that anyone is trying to, that throwing at a hitter with a potential outcome being injury is a proportional response to a pitcher getting his feelings hurt...but that is what makes the discussion entertaining... 

Yup, and on the surface, the idea of a guy getting plunked and hurt in summer ball is not good.  But, again, competitive baseball, especially when an opponent takes it up a notch and pimps.  I think the current environment is that anything targeted from armpit to thigh is within a safe range and injury beyond a bruise is of course possible but rare.  yeah, a few will say "never hit a guy on purpose".  

Personally, i hate pimping but have never and would never instruct a plunk.  I also wouldn't reprimand a P who does so "appropriately" unless it could directly affect the outcome of a close game.  

That said, I was that competitive 20 y.o. SOB once and deserved a shot or two to the ribs.  You pimp or pop off, you know you got it coming, no matter who makes the call.  Baseball will keep things in order.

Here's another thought on the coach making the call ... (I am probably giving him WAY too much credit).  A significant number of summer college players are playing because they didn't get enough PT during Spring season or they are moving up from JC, etc.  So, yet another reason that they may not be fully confident in their ability to make the right decisions regarding the unwritten rules at that level.

Fun topic.

Side note - I watch quite a bit of college summer ball and it is of particular interest to me that it seems there are more HBP than regular college season.  Surely, some P's are working on a new thing or two and they may not be getting the same consistent pen work and throwing routines but other reasons???

I dunno.. Seems to be not right on a couple of fronts. The coach should not instruct a player to intentionally throw at another--pitcher could aim for one place, but hit one even worse. That would be an injury that could have been avoided. Can't believe that a coach would get so involved in a player's (other team) antics, unless he knew that player personally (coached before, friend of the family). As for the player- hit the ball out and celebrate with teammates after crossing home plate home plate.

OK, Ripken, for the sake of continued discussion...

I agree regarding the coach' involvement.  But here is the rub (not necessarily for the coach) ... since you believe..

"As for the player- hit the ball out and celebrate with teammates after crossing home plate."

..and, instead, the player totally pimps it toward the opposing team, what is the right course of action by the opposing team?  I know many will say "beat them on the field" and I agree.  But, often, that is not a viable option.  There are a few other generic pat answers I expect to hear, but really, think about the competitive heat of the moment.

Summer collegiate is also a training ground for coaches who may not have a lot of experience.  Good head coaches are not the kind that lead the chirping in my opinion. Definitely not someone most would want teaching and leading their sons.  In this situation the batter is going to get hit whether the coach is involved at all.  One possible upside of having the coach involved is instructing on the frequency, timing and location.  If left to a 19 year old angry pitcher this might have resulted in some head hunting.

For some unsolicited advice on your son.  I am all aboard the ‘let’s make baseball fun’ train.  But it sounds like his pimping is over the top.  And arguing with umpire on balls and strikes is behavior that should have been fixed in middle school.  Besides the obvious benefit of getting plunked less often, think about how many people are going to remember him as someone they don’t want on their team in the future.  Summer collegiate teams have players and coaches from many places and having a reputation for drama may come back to bite you one day.

I don't approve of anyone's actions in the above scenario. 

Collegiate summer leagues are about reps and exposure--and they're supposed to be fun. 

I'd give a, "Lighten up, Francis" to all involved.

Northland posted:

Summer collegiate is also a training ground for coaches who may not have a lot of experience.  Good head coaches are not the kind that lead the chirping in my opinion. Definitely not someone most would want teaching and leading their sons.  In this situation the batter is going to get hit whether the coach is involved at all.  One possible upside of having the coach involved is instructing on the frequency, timing and location.  If left to a 19 year old angry pitcher this might have resulted in some head hunting.

For some unsolicited advice on your son.  I am all aboard the ‘let’s make baseball fun’ train.  But it sounds like his pimping is over the top.  And arguing with umpire on balls and strikes is behavior that should have been fixed in middle school.  Besides the obvious benefit of getting plunked less often, think about how many people are going to remember him as someone they don’t want on their team in the future.  Summer collegiate teams have players and coaches from many places and having a reputation for drama may come back to bite you one day.

After the HR the umpire told the next hitter ...he only did that because I rang him up on a **&tty pitch last at bat.... no need to worry about the arguing balls/strikes..a very uncommon event...This started as just being curious on where what I know to be knowledgeable and reasonable baseball minds stand on pitchers retaliating for a hitter watching the ball leave the yard and a coaches involvement...no bat flip...just drop and watch until it landed...In my opinion a coach of any team at any level leading the charge to ensure an opposing hitter gets hit is unwarranted...if the players police themselves and decide that is appropriate for the action you deal with it...

If the appropriate response to admiring your HR is getting hit...what is the appropriate hitter response to the pitcher stare down or other type of noticeable  celebration  following a big strikeout?  and the answer can't be get a hit next AB...or explain why you see those two responses as being in proportion to one another....more curiosity...

This is where I part ways with baseball culture.  To me its the height of cowardice to throw a potentially deadly object at someone from 60 feet because he celebrated too much yesterday.  Especially at the sub pro level, where no one is getting paid to take these risks.  What is wrong with yelling at him as he goes around the bases?  If you need violence then punch him in the face at the plate.

When I pitched in summer ball there was a lot less showboating, but if there had been I wouldn't have needed a coach to tell me what to do. I'm too old to even feel like reacting now but I've told my sons if they showboat they're risking getting hit.  

OT: I mentioned at dinner the other night that Alex Morgan's cup of tea move in the England World Cup match irritated me and all three of my guys thought it was great and I was out of touch.  Then I saw the post game celebration after the WC final and just shook my head. If modesty and humility can't be modeled at the highest level of performance or status, it doesn't stand a chance in Hometown, USA.

Coach shouldn't have been involved in anything. A pitcher has to know what to do and when to do it. My son has drilled a couple guys when it needed to be done in the past. A coach didn't have to tell him, it's common sense what to do and when to do it, or so I thought it was, especially at the college level. 

Baseball is a team sport, I was not there so cannot say for sure that the coach ordered it. However from the description it sounds pretty likely. 

Maybe the Coach told the pitcher, it was his decision, But the coach had to OK it? Maybe the coach did not want the pitcher to plunk the hitter at the wrong time. A hbp at the wrong time can be costly. 

I know if this happened when My kid pitched, If he would have plunked a guy in a bad situation, that could have cost the team. He would not have seen the mound for a while. So maybe the coach did not initiate it but Approved it. 

If it is going to happen it has to happen when it does not hurt the team.