Where is the dedication?

Skinscoach,

What are the previous coach's rules for missing practice and/or games? Did players always schedule trips that would miss prime baseball time, or do you think they are taking advantage of the "new guy"?

Mike F

Tough issues coach. We ran into the same problem with spring break. This year we are running our own tournament over break. If the kids miss, they will miss games and risk losing their spot. It has helped tremendously. As for the player missing practice, I would simply tell him that you will not have ample time to evaluate his talent until he has been at practice for a while. Until then he will not play over those that have been there. Set a Precedence as soon as possible or problems will continue.

Vacation time starts when school gets out. Set the New standard. They can vacation all they want, they will just be sacrificing playing time. I like the evaluation time thing as you will need to see them more before you can play them. Put those rules in writng that way there's no misunderstanding. When kids commit to a season, its for the whole season, not just what works for them.

Nice welcome they gave you coach! That stuff drives me up a wall.

Not sure why #2 scenario kid is on the varsity team to begin with, since he didn't play much for you at the JV level. Sounds like he's planning to continue in that grand tradition this year if he's already blowing off your hitting times. Plus he can't tell you to your face? Sounds like when he returns from vacation he can report right to his old spot on the JV bench.

That is a tough one coach.

In this area that type of thing very rarely happens. The secondary schools system at least for baseball says that you must attend 14 full practices once tryouts are over BEFORE you can play in ANY game.

The kids don't miss.

O42

Quite frankly this is just another reason why coaches say why bother.

In some states the rules require that so many practices be made or you do not play--you cannot return from vaction after missing practices and just jump into the staring lineup


Sorry orioles ---did not see your post


Incidently any team I ever coached had "RIZZI RULES" which superceded any others--it was and is always "my way or the highway"

Just a couple of thoughts from one in a trench similar to yours:
1. Have a meeting early (October) and post on your website this: Get your college days and doctor appts. taken care of in February!
2. One other word of advice coach: NEVER use that word punish... It will make a parent an enemy of yours forever... You can keep him out or make him JV or whatever you choose, but NEVER use the word punish.
Best wishes and hang in there. Once you get estbablished things are much better. good luck

Coach first of all its good to see you on here and I hope that you get some good advice that can help you out. The bottom line is you are new as the Head Coach and you will have to institute your rules and how you plan on running your program. There will be people who dont like it and there will be people who do like it. You will make some people upset thats for sure. My advice is to tell everyone up front that missing practices is unexceptable. Unless there is a death in the family , you are sick and out of school , you have a doctors appointment , or you have a school visit. Vacations during the HS season? You take a vacation out of season if you want to play on the team. If you take a vacation during the season then dont bother coming back. If you miss a practice that is not excused you sit three games and if it happens again dont bother coming back. If kids want to play then they will abide by the rules. If they dont then you dont want them anyway regardless of their ability. You have to set rules and stick by them. Once the players know what to expect and that you mean business then the ones that want to play will abide by them. The others will not and you will not have to worry about them anymore. As far as short on numbers, so what? If it means that you have to put everyone on the varsity for one year and do away with the JV because you dont have enough dedicated players to field two teams, do it. You will never build a winner if you do not hold kids accountable and award the dedicated players. You might have some growing pains but your program will be growing. If you dont set the ground rules and stick to them you will be dealing with this **** every year. I once had a Freshman tell me "Coach I paid for a ski trip next week with the church before the season started". "I will miss practice next week". I told him it was his decision to make, what was more important to him baseball or the ski trip. I could not make that decision for him. But I would make the decision to cut him if he was not at practice. His parents called me and said that they had paid 300 dollars for the trip and they thought it was unfair of me to make him miss the trip. I told them that I was not making him miss the trip. He had to make the decision what was more important to him. What was unfair to me was cutting a kid that came to practice and didnt go on a ski trip and keeping a kid that went on the trip. What kid that loves the game and wants to win would want to miss practice or games anyway? One that I would not want on my team in the first place.

quote:

Incidently any team I ever coached had "RIZZI RULES" which superceded any others--it was and is always "my way or the highway"

unfortunately today the coach is shown the highway. Too tough old fashioned old school.

quote:

One other word of advice coach: NEVER use that word punish... It will make a parent an enemy of yours forever

How about words like dismissed? We talk about discipline but some and I repeat some parents are ok with discipline as long as it is not for their kid.

WILL

Funny story == when I was in NY and my kids growing up I ran the s o c c e r , basketball and baseball for the town where i lived--- they wanted to hire me as an employee of the town rec dept--I politely refused because as a Volunteer I could do as I pleased and not have problems other than a few upset parents--we even had a protest board that parents could go to-- they backed me to the nth degree on every occasion--I even turned down the HS baseball coaching job after my son graduated so as to not rock their boat, so to speak.

Coach May: That's great and it works for you. Remember he's in a small school. 2) Spring sports are a little step child to football and basketball in a lot of places so parents who would never have their child miss FB ask off for spring favors all the time. It seems 'only reasonable' to them.
He can get to where you are, but it takes small steps (and some luck, let's face it if he can't win they think he's a moron anyway)...
Take the baby steps if you really want to stay in there...
Good luck Skins Coach... we need lots of guys like you out there!!!

Coach make it special to be a part of your program. If that means that only a select few that are dedicated and willing to put in hard work are able to be a part of it (Isn't that what you are trying to build?) As long as kids that are part timer's , that baseball is only something to do between other sports, vacations etc etc are allowed to be a part of it then you will always be average at best and you will never be special. I dont know about you but I do not coach to be average. I do not coach to help kids be average. I do not do anything to be average. If these people are happy with being average then let them be average somewhere else but not on your team. Once kids see that it is special to be a part of your program you won't have to worry about numbers you will have to worry about who to cut because your numbers will be too high. Once the parents see that if there kid wants to be a part of your program that they have to be dedicated and work hard and regardless of how talented they are they will be (dismissed) it they are not then they have to make decisions not you. Look as a coach I would rather have 9 guys on that bus with me that would rather be no place else that love the game and want to work to be the best they can be. Than two teams of 16 and a bunch of kids that have nothing invested but some time. I wish you all the luck in the world. It only takes 9. It only takes a spark to start a fire. Start the fire.

Coach, FWIW

Take the time to write a Team Playbook (handbook). This will help in many ways beside the on field stuff. Try to include all the things that are very important to you and set the rules. Make sure to state that there are no exceptions to the things in the playbook.

Give the playbook to all your players. Then they will think twice before doing things. If something comes up that is addressed in the playbook, simply tell the player, "read the playbook... we can not bend the rules or I will lose the respect of the players and control of the team".

It's a lot of work, but producing a playbook can save you many problems later on. JMO Unfortunately, it sounds like it might be too late for this year. Maybe you can take notes of things you want to add as they come up this year and write it after the season.

coach may - great posts. my feelings and stand on the subject 100%.
will - if you stick to your guns you can still be "old school" our kids dont miss practice, they dont get in trouble in school, they make good grades, they keep their haircut above their ears, etc. it maybe tough the first year or 2 to get that established but it makes it a whole lot easier and leads to more success in the longrun.
most of the schools in our area have the same standards so its not just an isolated thing that we are "old fashioned"
take a look at our player and parent policies on our website. we have never had a problem with this stuff.

I always wish I could coach a game against Coach May! He is such an outstanding poster i KNOW HE'S AN OUTSTANDING COACH!!!
Skinscoach, I just had my Parent's Meeting. Perhaps Just_Learning could chime in and post about it. My handout for my meeting this year was 8 pages long. Coach, YOU HAVE TO GIVE THAT PROGRAM AN IDENTITY. YOURS!!! ANY OTHER AVENUE IS JUST A RECIPE FOR DISASTER. You have to establish that line in the sand. In my meeting today, I told parents that THEY ARE THE PARENTS and if they don't like my rules, take their sons off of the team. My "Rules" define OUR program. I wrapped up my meeting by saying that OUR program belongs to the Parents, Administration, Players and Coaching Staff. I then mentioned that if I don't get their help, OUR program will fail. Something to think about!

I had meetings with my players. Told them what was expected. Play Ball. Never had a parents meeting. But I guess today coaches have to cover their butt. Against?

Thanks for the kind words coach. Will I like your posts and I have no doubt you were a heck of a coach. Every year we have a parents players meeting after we make our cuts and have established our rosters. We do it to make sure that the parents and players have no doubt what is expected of them and what they can expect from us. We have team rules that each parent and player must sign and turn in. We do this to leave no doubt in anyones mind what the ground rules are. We have kids that do not come out because they do not want to invest in anything that takes hard work , dedication and commitment. This saves us time to work with the ones who do. Did I mention talent? NO. It has nothing to do with building the foundation of a program. Once you establish that foundation you build upon it with hard work and sound baseball fundementals. You develop your players the ones that are dedicated and want to work. And every year you are blessed with one or two talented kids that want to work as well. You take a couple of studs who work their butts off and put some gritty hard workers with them and you win. My first year as a Head Coach I cut 3 seniors and 2 Juniors. I started 2 Freshman and two sophs on varsity. I set the tone for the future of the program right then and there. Some one has to be in charge. If your the Coach it has to be you. If not find another job. Again Coach good luck and stick to your fundemental beliefs. If you find yourself in a posistion where you are not allowed to do the right thing then find a posistion where you can.

How well do you as coaches get along with the other coaches at your schools? In this thread alone, I see some inter-sport "bashing" or maybe even jealousy.. "baseball is not the same as football or basketball" kind of stuff.

At our school, our coaches are excellent the way they work together. Scary part is our football and our s o c c e r coaches actually WORK TOGETHER in order for us to have kickers for football. Our basketball and football coaches are completely opposite in the way they go about a lot of things, but they both get respect from their players. Our football coach started our weights program 6 years ago and the entire athletic program follows the same workout with minor exceptions.

It sounds like a lot of other schools could use a little better relationship developed between the sports and their coaches.

our coaches get along great. during the summer we sit down with each other and make the summer schedule. all of our kids - football, basketball, baseball - do the same weight, agilities, plyo workouts during the summer. basketball coach lets pitchers playing basketball throw their bullpens during the winter. im on the sidelines on friday nights during football pulling for the kids, being the "get back" coach or whatever else needs to be done. football coaches are always offering to throw bp or whatever needs to be done during baseball.
we need the same kids to be successful. sharing athletes and working together is just not an issue.

WILL

In my mind the only coaches who need to hold parents meetings are those insecure in their postion and not confident in their own ability.

If you are worried about protecting your butt you better quit right now!

TR...with due respect to a very wise and respected poster, I think that is a bit harsh and unreasonable.

I have a parent meeting every year, just to introduce myself to the parents who don't know me, tell them what is expected of their sons, tell them what is expected of them, and tell them how I run my program. I also give them the schedule and maps to the games and my list of rules.

While I'm not "*****ly" or rude, I certainly tell them how things will be, and tell them what I will and won't discuss with them.

Now, how does this show me to be "insecure" or "not condfident in my own ability"? If I were insecure or lacked confidence, I wouldn't have a meeting at all and would just not deal with the parents. I know several coaches who do this....they go through coaching a kid for 4 years without getting to know the kid or his parents at all. Sorry, you're dead wrong on this one, TR.

quote:

they go through coaching a kid for 4 years without getting to know the kid or his parents at all.

TCB!

coach a kid 4 years and dont get to know him? Come on now.

TCB

You can say I am wrong if you want but I know what has worked for myself and other coaches I know

As for going 4 years and not knowing the kid you are off base-- it cannot happen

Over 4 years a coach can get to know the parents without interacting them just by being alert to things around him. And not holding a preseason meeting does not mean you as the coach are not accessible to them for discussion other than regarding playing time

I never saw the need for meetings with parents at the HS level--it aint "LL anymore baby"


With our travel team it is a different story--we interact with the parents for recruiting process purposes but we never talk with the parents about how we run the program and playing time for the kids unless we know a certain coach is coming to see a certain player then we make sure he is in the lineup for the coach. How we go about playing the kids is the coaches business and theirs alone

That's fine that you don't have a meeting, but don't have the audacity to tell those of us that DO have a meeting that we are insecure and not confident in our abilities. I'm not AFRAID to talk to parents; I believe I can handle anything they'd throw at me.......maybe the coaches who DON'T have meetings to let the parents know how things are run are the ones who are insecure and afraid to tell the parents the REASONS why they do things. It's easier to just set up rules and not be able to justify them, than it is to allow parents to ask you questions and discuss things on an adult level.

As for "this ain't LL"...well, I know that. But it also resolves a lot of problems that can come up, ahead of time. I get them all together and tell them that I don't discuss playing time with parents, and it is a lot easier and then doing it 10 times during the season when different parents might try to discuss it with me.

Oh, and if nothing else, it is courtesy. Why wouldn't I want to introduce myself to a group of parents I haven't gotten to know yet? Why wouldn't I want to identify them?

I'm fine with you not having a meeting, and really don't think you're wrong for not having one. Why do you feel the need to denigrate those of us who do?

we've never had a parents meeting. i agree with tr - we coach kids - not parents. we send a player/parent policy form home for them to sign but thats it.
parents know that we are accessible about anything except playing time, strategy, etc.
we've watched these kids play since they were 8 - we know the parents and they know us and what we are about.

TCB

Please dont use words such as audacity with me

We are here to express opinions and I express mine--you have expressed yours and we debate--so be it

Did I not say that you are entitled y to your opinion ?

The coaches province is his and he runs it as he sees fit.

As for courtesy- it has no bearing if you want to open your cioaching world to all comers be my guest--I just do not think it has any bearing on your coaching the kids--meetins with parents are to me CYA events

JMO

Taking a realistic viewpoint, I would have to say that a meeting with parents is mandatory.

We are dealing with minors who are not free to act without the permission of their parents.

We have financial considerations to be discussed with the parents.

We have scheduling considerations to be discussed with parents.

Parents are the ultimate arbiter in what is fitting and proper for their child in all aspects of their minority.

In the initial post, the first child is acting in regards to his future college attendance. No coach should have a problem with that.

In the second two, the child is on vacation in the care, custody and control of his parents. The child is not independent to make the decision that he will not go on vacation with the family.

These are not questions of dedication.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
WILL

In my mind the only coaches who need to hold parents meetings are those insecure in their postion and not confident in their own ability.

If you are worried about protecting your butt you better quit right now!

TRhit, I understand your opinion and appreciate it. Perhaps insecurity is a part of why I do it. However, I don't think so. I use mine to discuss several topics. I discuss the Qualities of a Baseball Knight. I include a section on "How to Be the Parent of an Athletic Child." Really good stuff there and I hope that the child is the beneficiary of that section. One Dad, after our meeting, commented that he saw himself in every item listed but didn't realize it until he read the list. A portion of my wrap up is to remind parents of Juniors that we need to be working on college selection, ACT Preparation and getting their sons into college. Naturally, there is the section where I set down team rules and the guidelines for our conversations. Perhaps this is the insecure part as you define it. Then again, I'll take a guess that most of the coaches on this site haven't had a physical confrontation with a parent. Do that once and then assess whether you need a meeting or not. JMHO!

BTW, TRhit, I've always appreciated reading your opinions.

if going on vacation in the middle of a high school season is not a question of dedication i dont know what would be.
coachb - we also get info home on financial concerns - fundraisers, etc. also get info out on act test, etc. but i stay on top of the academic end with my kids and their parents. i dont see a problem at all in having a meeting for those things we just dont do it. we try to put the responsibility on the kid to get this info home, etc. my home phone number and email address is given to all the kids and parents. they are welcome to contact anytime about anything but on the field matters.
i guess we maybe different because we are very involved in our youth programs. the parents and kids know from the time they are 8 who we are, what is expected, etc. its just a big baseball family.

raiderbb, I understand and really there isn't a right or wrong. I have my meeting for many different reasons some of which weren't posted on here.

Concerning the vacation during school spring break, I think it would be interesting hearing the parent's perspective. It would probably speak volumes for that player's commitment to the program not only this year but in the future. JMHO!

The initial post stated that this was the first practice, not the middle of the season.

The parents have obviously planned these trips well in advance.

'Lack of dedication' must also include injury, missing games for funerals, illness and a myriad of other things that happen in life that do not exhibit a lack of dedication.

Do you plan to be sick on a certain day? How about getting hurt on a certain day? I'll bet their vacation was planned for a certain day; wasn't just chosen out of nowhere and it probably didn't just happen a matter of minutes, hours, or days before it was expected.

quote:

afraid to tell the parents the REASONS why they do things.

TCB1

why would you have to tell them the reasons you do things? Please dont take this the wrong way but I did not have to justify the reason why I did things. I did things because I was the coach and that is the way I wanted things done. The kids knew what was expected of them the first day and i always told them I would respect anyone of them who said it was not for them and left.

I would bet that families planned their vacations for spring break well before the practice was announced.

The only area that a coach has any control and concern is in the practices, play and eligibility of his players.

I have seen coaches cut the lesser or mediocre players while kissing the keesters of the star players.

I have never seen coaches cut star players for not conforming to the 'rules'.

I have seen coaches change plans adding tournament appearances after the schedule was issued and expect families to conform to the 'new' schedule.

A good coach plans for the unexpected and grooms his players to be ready to play when called.

Will,

I completely understand that. That was the way I was raised too. My dad said jump, I said how high. My coach said run through a brick wall, I **** well tried.

And when dealing with the kids and the parents, I don't feel the need to justify myself. However, when dealing with parents, I see no reason not to clue them in on some things. Consider that many of these parents may have had no previous experience dealing with a coach or sports program; or at least not one with a great deal of seriousness about the sport.

Some of these people don't understand why their kid had to run at practice; or why he is benched because he didn't wash his uniform; or why he is benched because he was late. Sure we tell the kids these rules, and they know them. But most of them don't go home and tell their parents. So if I tell the parents ahead of time how and why things are, I believe it heads off a lot of problems during the season. As I said before, maybe if I do it one time at the beginning of the season, I won't have to do if for several different parents during the season.

TR, I think I made it pretty clear that you are entitled to your opinion. I also made it clear that I dont' think you are wrong for not having a meeting. But you took it a step further when you essentially ridiculed or put down those of us who have meetings.

Plus, I don't open my "coaching world" to them. I tell them why we sometimes have to practice at 8:30 at night; I explain that we are at the mercy of the basketball team as far as gym time, and sometimes we won't know about our practice time until the same day; I tell them about our missed practice policy; our grade policy; our fundraisers; I tell them about our summer program and how I would like for their son to play in it; I introduce my coaches to them so they know their names; I pass out maps and schedules; I tell them about our website; I talk to them about college baseball and what their sons need to do to get there.

What in the world is insecure or unconfident about that? I say again that it takes more confidence to stand up in front of a group of adults and address them and (if they have a problem with you), deal with it head on. I basically feel like I take the wind out of any "problem parents" sails before the season even begins. I'm not trying to curry their favor, I'm just letting them know how it is.

And I think I'm entitled to use the word "audacity" if you are entitled to use the terms "insecure" and "lack of confidence" without knowing anything else about me or my program or the program of any other coach here who chooses to have a parents meeting. You want to disagree...fine. You don't want to have a parent meeting...also fine. I understand your position, I just know what works for my program. Please don't deign to put me down for my choices; I don't put you down for yours.

TCB!

You do what you think you have to do. If it works for you and you feel comfortable with it then do it. This forum is about ideas. Agree disagree but as I learned a looooong time ago if it aint broke dont fix it. Good luck

quote:

TR, I think I made it pretty clear that you are entitled to your opinion. I also made it clear that I dont' think you are wrong for not having a meeting. But you took it a step further when you essentially ridiculed or put down those of us who have meetings.

You guys are both right:
If you are a coach for many years you don't need a meeting with the Parents, they know from feedback from other parents whats exspected.
If you are a new coach to the HS they( the Parents/Players)
need to know what the rules are.
I personally feel the head coach at Middle School and Higher doesn't need to talk at all to the parents. Just the Players.