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So I go onto GNC's website to look at their selection of Creatine for my son. He is wanting to add about 15-20lbs of muscle while he is working out hard before season and continue through the season.

Like any website I was overwhelmed at the many choices to choose from. Which one is just a plain good Creatine to help put on muscle minus all the other bells and whistles? Nothing fancy.

YGD

"The difference between excellence and mediocrity is commitment." Twitter: @KwwJ829

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Creatine is a misunderstood supplement.

In basic terms, what it does is fully hydrate the muscles so that you can maintain peak performance until muscle failure. That means that it won't make you stronger, it will help you to lift more reps of the same maximum weight you have already achieved.

By lifting more reps at the maximum weight, that will increase your strength and begin to allow you to up your maximums.

Creatine is a natural supplement found in all red meats and is the most studied of all the supplements and is deemed safe. Creatine is creatine and it can't be altered for efficacy. While many creatine supplements contain other supplements that may (operative word, may) help increase strength, don't believe anything that says their creatine is special.

One word of caution with creatine. The person taking it has to hydrate immensely or risk pulling muscles.

Some people experience no benefit from creatine supplementation while others show nearly immediate change. It will bulk you up and add weight immediately, but that is just retained water. Because your muscles retain that water, you will likely feel slower and less flexible...more bloated. Most athletes use creatine as an off season workout supplement but stop taking it in season because of the bloating and lack of flexibility.

Regards,
Chip
Last edited by CPLZ
CPLZ, thanks for that informative post. Wow.

As a pitcher Im thinking that Creatine may not be the very best solution to helping him add muscle. He lost 75lbs last year and it affected his season last spring tremendously in various ways on the mound. He could stand to put about 15-20lbs back on, but muscle.

Would you recommend something else to accomplish this? He is taking some protein shakes now daily. But I wasn't sure if that was enough. Being away from home like he is doesnt allow him to partake of his Grandmother's big Sunday dinners!

YGD
Just as important as nutrients, is nutrient timing. When you eat/supplement is nearly as important as what you eat/supplement.

Protein is important. The best source of it is something like a chicken breast. Obviously that's a lot less available than a quick protein shake. Make sure that the protein is taken within 1 hour of the end of the workout for most effectiveness.

As to creatine for pitchers, I don't have a strong opinion on this one, but lean towards no. The reason is that pitchers need to retain so much flexibility in the offseason to do bullpens and throwing workouts that it may affect motion and technique negatively. But again, that's a very mild no. If he is overly weak and needs muscle mass, then it may be a good route.

Making sure that he is on a regular eating schedule, and getting good nutrition is probably as important as anything supplement wise. I would continue the protein shakes, immediately post workout, but otherwise just be conscientious about diet and regular workouts.
YGD,
Good info provided by CPLZ.

I don't know when your son's season begins but he should have begun an off season conditioning program when season ended which should have been tailored to his needs as a pitcher and his particular needs ( weight gain).

In order for supplements to work properly you need to understand how they work. I would suggest that you go to the conditioning forum and contact John Doyle or contact bulldog19 for advice.

As suggested by CPLZ, proper weight gain could be achieved through diet alone and amount of calories needed when conditioning as to not lose through workout routine.
Well we certainly all know that proper diet and nutrition is not always at the top of the list while at school. Unfortunately.

But I agree with you that it SHOULD be made a priority regardless. His gf's dad owns a BBQ restuarant across from the school and eats there almost daily now. At least he's getting some protein! lol.

All joking aside I do need to talk to him about the amount of calories he is taking in daily because of working out and just normal life that he is expending.

thanks everyone
YGD,
It's very much about eating the right foods (protein), when to eat them, the right amount of calories, that help build muscle and workouts and off season conditioning.

Again I suggest that you get some positive feedback by someone more informed on the subject. If he wants to be successful, then perhaps he needs to take the bull by the horns as to understanding as to what an athlete has to do to improve his body so that when season comes he improves his game. This (eating properly) should be just as important as anything else he is doing while away at school.

JMO.
Last edited by TPM
My 2013 normally had a hard time gaining. He gained 30 pounds since July. Working out 4 days. Eats 5 meals a day, most days. I fix him eggs bacon bread fruit every morning.

No creatine. He tried protein powder, but he doesn't like it.

Mostly, we went Paleo (sorta). He swapped the carbs he was eating (cereal, Pop Tarts, lasagna, breads), for protein (salmon, peanut butter, burgers, chicken, meats).

When I was a senior, I gained 25 pounds on GOMAD, and weightlifting.
Last edited by SultanofSwat
You must be very, very careful. There are some nutritional supplement websites out there that claim they sell products that do not contain NCAA-banned substances, but...

According to the NCAA Athletic Medicine Handbook, “Positive drug-test appeals based on the claim that the student-athlete did not know the substances they were taking contained banned drugs are not successful.”
Last edited by slotty
There is great information in this thread I can add just a few things.

YGD I would assume your son’s program has a strength and conditioning coach who would put a program together for him, including recommendations on how and when to creatine load, as well as a program tailored for a pitcher, which would likely be lower body focused in combination of yoga or pilates.
To put on mass you need to:

1. Have a great program that is structured in phases, first general conditioning, second body mass building, third dynamic/explosive/athletic movements, finally in season maintenance.

2. Probably as key to anything you have to get in the weight room and work very hard when there. Lots of kids just hang out and sorta do the work. This is probably more important than anything else.

3. Good nutrition is just one part of the program. My son did do a couple of “courses” of creatine, in which he put on more weight, but a lot of it was water and it came off after he finished his loading period . He put a lot of body mass on the past year and a half, but this was because of the totality and effort of his program, and I am not sure how much the creatine helped. It probably did, but I am not sure how much.

He used all kinds of different proteins, but found that a good and cheaper source is the Cryto Sports stuff at Cosco was as good as any other. One key for him was to spread his protein before and after his workout and found that “in workout” energy source drinks helped him keep up his intensity while in the weight room. His creatine loading was always done when he was in his mass building phase, which frankly is over the summer and early fall. He takes amino acid supplements separately so he does not need all of the blended proteins (and more expensive). He is now in his explosive/dynamic phase getting ready for the season. I am not saying that your son could jump into a mass building phase now, but he is out of sequence as far as the time of the year. You do lose some explosiveness after a mass build phase and you have to work to get it back. As others have posted you need to drink tons of fluids when on creatine. My son found that the “pure” creatine was the best and most economical.

There are all kinds of mixtures, just get 100% creatine and follow the loading instructions to the T, and like others have said drink tons of fluids. He will put on body weight initially, a lot is water, and some of it will come off once he stops the cycle.

Hope this helps and best of luck to him this season!
Last edited by BOF
I am going to assume that if YGD's son had someone qualified who could help him, he wouldn't be asking us for advice?

Not all programs are created equal and not all programs have people qualified to help you with nuitrition, training.

My opinion is that if that there is someone, he needs to take care of business and not have dad worry about it.
Smile
I see no problem with a father researching a topic and providing guidance for his son. I know that is the route I took with my son.

I never relied on any one source to guide my son or create opportunities for him.

If we had the ability to rely on HS Coaches to be looking out for each of our sons this site would not exist.

Once upon a time a HS Coach might have gotten one or two of his players spots on a college team, but that seems rare now.

Once upon a time a HS Coach could be relied upon to teach the finer points of hitting and swing mechanics, or pitching and pitching mechanics.

I do not think any HS Coach would ever go out on a limb with regard to food supplements.

And, in College, I think there is more emphisis on what not to take than what is acceptable to take.
Last edited by floridafan
While we are on this subject. My 2013 catcher is trying to build up in preparation for college and has been drinking Muscle Milk post work out. He just asked me to research another supplement called Pro Complex Gainer and 100% Casein. Does any one have any experience with either one of these. Seems that the Muscle milk is working, just slower than he would like. Any suggestions or comments would be great. Thanks
Advanced Sports Nutrition by Dan Bernadot, PhD, RD, FACSM is the primary source I use when I reference sports nutrition. I read it cover to cover, along with a few other specialized shorter texts, when I sought to know more about how to advise my son.

I've talked to some sports trainers that didn't have anywhere near the education on the topic of sports nutrition that I did...or supplementation. They readily admitted, it's not their wheelhouse...It's the reason I grabbed the bull by the horns and educated myself on the topic. It was very hard to find qualified professional advice regarding high proficiency athletes and sports nutrition and supplementation.

The simple fact that someone, anyone, could on their own initiative, research and educate themselves on a topic of interest to them...Amazing, very amazing, isn't it?
Last edited by CPLZ
As far as creatine goes look for the Creapure label or the words Creapure on the container somewhere. Excellent point Floridafan.We as parents SHOULD be educated on this subject. Can't give guidence without knowledge. Optimal Nutrition and Inner Armour(mass-peak,nitro-peak ect..) put out top notch and clean products. Do not forget a good milti vitemin and mineral supplement, first line of defense against injury.CPLZ is spot on in his post. Creatine lets one work harder and recover better. Muscle building and strength are all about recovery.
My son used Pro complex gainer for a long time.I researched for ever and really like Optimum nutrition.Pro complex gainer is one of a few gainers that does not have creatine in it and we didnt want him taking creatine in HS.

Now due to minor league rules and the NSF stamp that is suppose to be on all supplements you take he had to switch.I actually called Optimal nutrition and they said they were going to go through the testing.

Muscle milk by Cytosport is what he uses now and likes it fine.Cytosport products have NSF stamp.
I sincerely appreciate all of your input on this subject. I have learned a great deal of information from each of you. I am blessed to have a place like this to come and get this kind of support and knowledge on a subject as complex as this.

Where my son attends school it's unforunate that he doesn't have the proper Trainer in place to educate him on something like this. His coaches however do have him on a rigorus Christmas workout program.

I had lunch with my son yesterday and spoke to him about the things here you guys educated me on. Basically after hearing what I had to say based off this newfound information he felt it best to not begin using Creatine and to begin eating a proper nutritious diet each day couple with the current Protein shake he drinks each day.

Again, thank you to all of you and also for the PM's I got as well.

YGD
My son's team's athletic trainer does not allow them to ingest any off-the-shelf nutrional supplements. That may be overkill, but all nutritional supplements carry some risk of containing an NCAA-banned substance due to mislabelling, possessing a potency level that is different than what is claimed or stated, or unintentional contamination during the manufacturing process.

All of these potentialities may result in harmful health effects or positive drug test results for banned substances. Caveat emptor.
quote:
Originally posted by slotty:
... but all nutritional supplements carry some risk of containing an NCAA-banned substance due to mislabelling, possessing a potency level that is different than what is claimed or stated, or unintentional contamination during the manufacturing process.

All of these potentialities may result in harmful health effects or positive drug test results for banned substances. Caveat emptor.


There is also some risk of me being mauled by a bear in my shower. In spite of this risk, I choose to live dangerously and not bring my loaded weapons into the bathroom.

You are severely overstating the risk here. The odds of you ingesting a banned substance from traditional supplementation sources are much lower than the professional athletes that get tagged with suspensions want you to believe.

There have been some allegations that companies would bring new products to market with substances like anabolic steroids in them. The theory was that the product would gain grass roots support from the great results gym rats would show and build momentum for the product. After momentum was established, the company would cease adding the banned substances so that if tested, they came up clean.

Even if that were true, it is avoided by simply using well known products with a track record.

Did you know that caffeine is a banned substance by the NCAA? It is. Did you know that in Dan Bernadot's book he lists caffeine as the #1 substance proven to enhance an athletes performance?

However, in order for the NCAA threshold for caffeine to be exceeded you would have to test for 2000 mg in your system. That would be 10, 200 mg. supplement pills taken at once, undiluted. .

quote:
Originally posted by slotty:
My son's team's athletic trainer does not allow them to ingest any off-the-shelf nutrional supplements.


If true, this would be evidence of rampant ignorance among trainers about nutrition and supplementation. It would show how ignorance on a subject leads to draconian rules whose foundations are myth.

So, while, buyer beware, is always a good reminder, let's not overstate the risk and alarm people unnecessarily.

Regards,
Chip
Last edited by CPLZ
I agree, Chip and my intention is not to alarm people but to make sure they proceed with open eyes and know what--if any--risks are involved.

I have worked in the nutraceutical industry and I can assure you that there is only one thing motivating nutritional supplement companies: the pursuit of the almighty buck. Some are much more reputable than others and some are criminals. But, as I'm sure you know, nutritional supplements are not regulated by the FDA and there is less stringency regarding what can be said regarding their benefits.

All I'm saying is that it is, by definition, the Wild West out there in the nutritional supplement marketplace and that, god forbid, should a well-intentioned student-athlete test positive for a NCAA-banned substance through no fault of their own, that pleading ignorance will not get them or their program very far in the appeal process.

BTW, after lifting and conditioning workouts my son's team is given a fresh fruit and egg white smoothie, with the ingredients and proportion calibrated by the athletic trainer. My son has gained 16 lbs of muscle in the first three months of his freshman year, although some of the weight gain is probably attributable to bacon cheeseburgers and the more-than-occasional consumption of a cold and frosty beverages that shall remain unspecified here.

BTW, my son was recently attacked in the shower not by a bear but by a wolverine. Thankfully, he was able to succecssfully repel the crazed beast with a squirt of some Old Spice Body Wash.
Last edited by slotty
Leaving creatine out of it,there is nothing wrong with a protein drink after workouts.Muscle Milk is an approved NCAA vendor as well as they have gone through the NSF testing.That testing is to insure that MLB and minor league players dont get accidental illegal substances.I think if its NSF and NCAA approved the player will be fine.

I think its great that a school would make protein shakes like that for their athletes.Not all schools do that.Running all day and keeping up on the calories is often difficult.

I drink Muscle milk,light)( watching my calories) as a 100 calorie snack to ward off snacking etc.I think its pretty good.

Its the players that try to gain weight quick,and get big quick that igest all this mega this or mega that.

Nothing will replace hard work, good nutrition(that is legal).

Protein does need to be ingested right after a work out.So however one does it,eggs,chicken drink on the run,they need something.
to add, the eduction as a parent and your kid is essential. At my sons school Creatine is apparently seen a some magic potion and I have kept my son away from it until I became educated myself. Depending on the age, Creatine in higher levels should be stayed away from. Thats not me, but from a Doctor and can be researched on the net with respect to health issues. Triple X sold at GNC has the lowest levels of Creatine and is suiteable IMO if you son is around 16. My son turns 16 in Feb. and he's now using it while many of his peers envolved in football have been on the stuff since turning 15 and at higher levels. GNC sells higher % Creatine suppliments in powdered and pill form but there is uncertainty about the effects on the liver at these levels and if it's safe for teenagers to be taking at these levels. Unfortunaly some of the coaches are not doing the level of research on these supplements in the name of getting there kids bigger. At his 6A school I have personally seen kids put on 30-40 lbs in one year and they look completely bloated, carrying a 1 gallon jug of water into school is a pretty good indication of high dosing.

DO NOT reley on the GNC store cleck to provide you the accurate facts b/c they are varied. Not that all GNC stores have un-educated muscle heads employed at them but do yout own research. FWIW the Crtyo noted above sold at Costco is a real bargin and 1/2 the cost of GNC stuff and is has large amounts of amino's (etc), but no creatine. Also, when mixing invest in a tupperware shaker and the stainless steel rattle ball to help mix better. Mix with 2-3 ice cubes for best results.
Last edited by 2Lefties
quote:
Originally posted by lodi14:
Future college strength coach wants the incomings to use 100% Casein.


That shows an incomplete understanding of the synthesis of amino acids as they relate to protein absorption.

In the most layman terms...
Whey protein is absorbed into the system quickly and reaches its peak level of protein synthesis in about a half hour. This is the reason you should take it immediately post workout. You need to synthesize new muscle protein at a greater rate than the breakdown of muscle protein from the workout. This causes muscle growth.

Casein protein absorbs into your body much more slowly, almost like a time release protein. Many take this supplement just before bed as that is when the body does a great deal of recuperative work. Casein actually accomplishes its time release by coagulating in the stomach and not being physically digested quickly.

Using Whey & Casein supplementation both as part of a diet is stepping up in the sophistication level. It has merit and is worthwhile for the peak athlete trying to get the most out of his workouts.

This is simply my laymans opinion, and it is what I would advise my own son, but if he were only to take one protein supplement it would be Whey immediately after a workout. I believe that this will show the most benefit. Right now my older son is sophisticated enough in his workouts that he uses both proteins, while my younger simply does the whey.

I hope that this has provided you with some insight in to how the two differ.

Regards,
Chip
quote:
Originally posted by 2Lefties:
Depending on the age, Creatine in higher levels should be stayed away from. Thats not me, but from a Doctor and can be researched on the net with respect to health issues. ...

...GNC sells higher % Creatine suppliments in powdered and pill form but there is uncertainty about the effects on the liver at these levels and if it's safe for teenagers to be taking at these levels.


As I stated earlier, Creatine is without a doubt the most studied supplement on the market. The amount of research available will make your head spin.

The reason for all this research, is the amount of misinformation and misunderstanding about what it is and what it does.

Your body can only absorb a certain amount of creatine, no more. There is no way to increase that amount. Any excess creatine you ingest is wasted and quickly expelled in urine. It does process through the liver, but the assertion that the liver is somehow damaged has never been proven.

I understand that the last statement I made, "has never been proven", could mean that damage could occur. That is until you put that statement in the context stated earlier, that Creatine is the most studied supplement ever.

Creatine used to be used in phases. The loading phase, where for a week you would take heavy supplement doses, then the maintenance phase, where you would take it 5 to 7 days per week for 4 to 10 weeks, followed lastly by the cleanout phase, where you would not take the supplement for two weeks, ostensibly to let your body clear itself of excess creatine.

What medical research has shown, is that there is no upside to loading, because your body can only absorb so much, and there is no benefit to the cleanout phase, because creatine is naturally found in red meats.

Every true medical study that I have seen written about by professionals, say the same thing. Regardless of dosage, we can not find creatine to be detrimental. I will qualify that with saying that no study that I know of has ever been done on pre pubescent children.

I would very much like to know the names and or authors of any studies or documentation that show a negative affect from creatine.

Regards,
Chip
I have been around gyms for a long time. I have read extensivley on creatine and have not found a study that shows any detrimental effects of the supplement. Remember, the body needs creatine to provide APT. We all ingest creatine one way or another by the foods we eat. A serving of herring in any form will provide plenty of protein and about 2grams of creatine. Try that before a workout and see what happens!Inner Armour by Parisi is one of the best supplement lines for a college athlete.Absolutly no banned substances. And let us remember, just because a substance is banned does not make it harmful. It is banned for giving an unfair advantage. There are plenty of supplements out their that are completly safe but WILL cause a positive test. Most of these products will say that on the label. Read all labels well. Stay away from proprietary blends. All ingrediants are NOT listed in these. Hope this helps.
I also will not recommend one of my athletes take any kind of supplement. The only one I might consider would be protein in the form of protein shakes. Most supplements really are wasted because the athletes eat ****** diets and think the supplements are going to make up for it. That just isn't true.

Personally, I occasionally use protein powder (not often), but I do drink a lot of Spark by Advocare. It's my energy for my long days..
My intent was to not get into a ****ing match about the use of supplements in my early reply. Anyone can search the net, information is pretty easy to find. I certainly don't take everything I red off the net as an absolute, however I will proceed with some level of caution with respect to what my kid takes into his body. I researched at length, no long term studies exist maybe b/c it's use has only become more widespread in the last decade, I don't know. Only certain side effects are noted in cases and I have chosen to proceed at a very conservative level after talking with my son's doctor and a couple of good friends on mine, one of which is in Internal Medicine.

Below is fairly condensed but I beleive objective statements. Take it FWIW, we choose to allow it's use and as the article below said "proceed with caution". I take C4 myself before and during hockey and feel fine.

""From the medical standpoint, there remains confounding literature that both supports and refutes negative side effects of creatine supplements -- including the possibility of liver and kidney damage," says Dr. Robert Gotlin, the director of the Orthopedic and Sports Rehabilitation Program at Beth Israel Medical Center in New York City. "We just don't know what long-term use will do."

"For me," he cautions, "it's not safe until it's proven safe, and it should not be used, particularly by young athletes."

But using it they are. According to the Mayo Clinic Sports Medicine Center in Rochester, Minn., an anonymous survey of 300 teen athletes revealed that 8 percent are using creatine, often knowing little about it. The results, say the study's authors, are probably indicative of the national trend.

"We have no reason to believe the group of kids we surveyed is any different from any group of teen athletes around the nation. So the figures are probably pretty accurate in terms of depicting not only use, but the lack of knowledge about it by those who use it," says Dr. Jay Smith, a sports medicine physician at the Mayo Clinic, and one of several doctors who oversaw the study.

It's also not hard to figure how the creatine craze landed on the steps of America's high schools. A 1997 survey of National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) athletes found almost one-third were using creatine supplements, while estimates for use by pro athletes, particularly football players, have run as high as 75 percent. All this despite the fact that creatine and other over-the-counter supplements, although legal, have been banned by the National Football League, the NCAA and the International Olympic Committee

The creatine attraction

Creatine monohydrate is an amino acid that's produced by the liver, and is also available via high-protein foods like red meat and poultry. It increases the production and availability of ATP, adenosine triphosphate, the fuel the body uses for quick bursts of energy -- the kind required in football, wrestling and power lifting, for example.

"Creatine appears to enable athletes to maintain a high training volume, so they can recover more quickly from the high-power activity and go again, which is why it is believed to improve performance," reports Ellen Coleman, a registered dietitian who counsels athletes at the Sports Clinic in Riverside, Calif.

Creatine also adds bulk to muscles -- almost immediately, increasing their size usually within seven days.

But the benefits are not without risk. Muscles that bulk too quickly are more subject to injury, Gotlin notes. And weight gain and gastrointestinal upset are frequently cited short-term side effects of creatine use, along with dehydration and a potentially dangerous imbalance of electrolytes, the minerals the body needs to regulate heart rhythm.

"Since athletes sweat a great deal, their natural potential for dehydration is greater than normal, and those risks increase with creatine use, which holds water in the muscles and pulls it away from the rest of the body," Coleman says.

There is also at least some suspected risk of long-term damage to the liver, and particularly the kidneys, which help filter excess creatine from the body.

"The studies are more anecdotal reports, not necessarily well-designed follow-up studies. So the unanswered question is, if you are taking this stuff in greater amounts than what is made by the body naturally, and it's excreted, what, if anything, is it doing to your kidneys?" Smith asks.

Needed: More research

The potential effects of creatine use, particularly in young athletes, prompted the American College of Sports Medicine to convene a special roundtable of experts to examine data on the supplement's effectiveness. Their conclusion, recently published in the journal Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, stated:

"The fact that creatine is a naturally occurring compound does not make supplementation safe, as numerous compounds are good, even essential in moderation, but detrimental in excess. Further, the lack of adverse effects does not equal safety since unending research must be performed to eliminate the possibility of all theoretical complications."

So, while we may not have much in the way of proven evidence against creatine use -- in fact one five-year study found no problems with regular use at all -- at least some experts believe that what we still don't know about creatine could harm us.

"Based on what we know now, I would not recommend it," Gotlin says.

Others, however, believe the best plan is simply to "approach with caution."

"If we know the kids are going to be taking it anyway, it's better that we at least be there to counsel them on the correct way to use the supplement, and in the correct amounts, and in that way, help reduce the likelihood of at least some potential problems," says Coleman.

Smith agrees: "We don't encourage use. But if the kids say they really want to take it, we tell them what we know and what we don't know and, with the parents involved, let them make their own decision. Because, right now, we don't have any grounds to come out strongly against it."

If your teen athlete insists on using creatine, it's imperative that you and your child talk to his or her doctor first.
quote:
Originally posted by 2Lefties:

So, while we may not have much in the way of proven evidence against creatine use -- in fact one five-year study found no problems with regular use at all -- at least some experts believe that what we still don't know about creatine could harm us.

"Based on what we know now, I would not recommend it," Gotlin says.



This pretty much sums up the creatine scare. Even though a 5 year study finds no problems with regular use, you still have a Dr. coming out against it.

I have no idea why, seemingly smart people, would in the face of all contrary evidence, try to come up with a position against something, but they do. But, we know that this happens everyday, and although they are the vast minority, they get heard. They like to call it risky... weight gain and gastrointestinal upset are the frequently cited risks....

I am not the champion of creatine, far from it. I do however like to hear from professionals with an objective opinion and especially those that cite accredited studies.

quote:
Originally posted by 2Lefties:
"From the medical standpoint, there remains confounding literature that both supports and refutes negative side effects of creatine supplements -- including the possibility of liver and kidney damage," says Dr. Robert Gotlin, the director of the Orthopedic and Sports Rehabilitation Program at Beth Israel Medical Center in New York City. "We just don't know what long-term use will do."

"For me," he cautions, "it's not safe until it's proven safe, and it should not be used, particularly by young athletes."


That is a carefully worded quote. He does not use the word studies, he cites literature...that means he read an opinion. Then he "cautions" that we can't disprove the harmful effects in spite of the fact that they have never been able to prove them. Based on his rational for a threshold of evidence, he should probably arm himself in the shower against bear attacks.

I find it unfortunate when people form an early and uneducated opinion on something and then refuse to be guided towards a contrary conclusion by overwhelming evidence.

Creatine is the most studied supplement ever. If there are studies that show its negative effects, I have yet to find them. Wouldn't it seem there is a reason for that?

Regards,
Chip
Last edited by CPLZ

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