Which Showcase should we attend?

My son is an 8th Grader.  Our plan is to have him do his first Perfect Game Showcase in August of 2017 (i.e. right before Freshman year begins).  More than likely we'll do a regional one (Chicago).   Our thoughts are:  it'll be a lot of fun for him.  It'll be great competition for him as most of the kids are older.   It'll give him early experience at these types of events.  He loves the challenge of facing older pitching

Thank you for the response, and that is what we are focused on now.  He's playing basketball right now for his Jr. High school as well as a CYO church team.  He still throws and hits once a week or so, when he wants to; but no fall ball for him.  I'm just the type of Dad that does a lot of research on things before I talk to him is why I asked the question.

I hope he can continue the multiple sports in high school, but that might be difficult as playing basketball for him is something he love to do, but his skill set in baseball... not basketball..lol

Thanks again! 

My 2018 RHP did his first showcase, the Perfect Game Mid-Atlantic Underclass, between his freshman and sophomore year and it really opened up some great opportunities for him. I think if I were to do it again, I'd have him do the showcase the summer before his freshman year. The only reasoning behind that is to show him "what's out there" and to have the experience under his belt, so when he goes back the following year he already knows what the showcase is about.

Regardless, have fun in the process. It's exciting to see kids play at such a high level!

Any time you want to get a real idea of where your kid stands among others, pay for and attend a showcase. If you care about that now, do it. It could also help you with a baseline. If not, let him play the sports he loves and see where it takes him. Enjoy high school, it flies by. 

What's the general consensus on PBR Showcases events?  There are a few in our area and they offer the first one for free.  

Recommended reading. (PGStaff is Perfect Game.)

http://community.hsbaseballweb...e-or-not-to-showcase

Goblue33 posted:

What's the general consensus on PBR Showcases events?  There are a few in our area and they offer the first one for free.  

They can be good.  I know a few kids who were offered after attending PBR.  Most PBR showcases that I know of are strictly measurables, there aren't any games (could be different in other states, we're in Wisconsin)   Because of that, my son's plan is to only attend Perfect Game Showcases, or other showcases that also have game action.   He likes to play Baseball.   It is fun.   He understands the business side of things, but at the end of the day he wants to play the game.  

Perfect Game is much higher up on the ladder than PBR anyways

Coach_TV posted:

First of all let me say that I know this is early in the process, but I want to ask as my family tries to figure out the best path for our son.

My son is 13 and in 8^th grade, heading to HS next year and we are trying to figure out the best path for him as he moves into High School and HS baseball.

One of the things I’ve seen is learning about and attending showcases in our area.

My question in around the Perfect Game and Baseball Factory programs, having never been down this path before (older siblings participated in other activities); I’m not sure which one is the right choice.

 Any thoughts or input of which one is “better”  Or is there something completely different that we should look at when the time comes?

Thank you...

Coach TV: Welcome to the Site. It is early in the process, so you don't necessarily need to be at a showcase where coaches are; your son won't know which schools he is interested and vice versa. Many students at this point want to play for the teams they see on TV; too much uncertainty about ability and academic prowess at this point. What I suggest is if you want to see where he stacks up for his age group and where his strengths lie, attend the Baseball Factory National "Tryout". Here you'll get the measurables (Arm strength, 60 time, MPH off mound HTF time, bat speed, etc) from a third party for $99. Even then, I would recommend waiting until he is in HS.  If they are in your area and you don't have to incur other costs next year such as hotel, it may be worth it. My son got the measurables fall freshman year, which gave him direction to strengthen his strong tools and motivated him on areas where he was average for his age group. In the meantime, your son should focus on his grades and playing for a team that will give him playing time and one he finds enjoyable.

PBR, really depends on your state. I think the PBR in Ohio is ran by Chris Valentine. I think they do a very fine job. Are they PG, no. Valentine also runs PBR in  Michigan, Ontario and the New England area. I have not heard flattering things about other states, and most of those responses were on this board. 

And if the goal is to play in HS, a showcase will not help with that. My son did a couple of local showcases as a freshman. But that was more about getting experience that being seen. 

BishopLeftiesDad posted:

PBR, really depends on your state. I think the PBR in Ohio is ran by Chris Valentine. I think they do a very fine job. Are they PG, no. Valentine also runs PBR in  Michigan, Ontario and the New England area. I have not heard flattering things about other states, and most of those responses were on this board. 

Thanks, BLD.  

Goblue33 posted:

BishopLeftiesDad posted:

PBR, really depends on your state. I think the PBR in Ohio is ran by Chris Valentine. I think they do a very fine job. Are they PG, no. Valentine also runs PBR in  Michigan, Ontario and the New England area. I have not heard flattering things about other states, and most of those responses were on this board. 

Thanks, BLD.  

Your welcome. I see you are from Michigan, so PBR in your area should be pretty good. PBR was not a big thing in this area when my son was going through recruiting. There were may separate showcases, that he was invited to, One of those was the Buckeye scout. The gentleman who ran that now works with PBR Ohio. At least he did last time I checked. I would not have any problems sending my kid to any of the PBR events in the sates listed above. I do not know enough of the other ones, so buyer beware. They may be very good. They may be very bad. Search the forum and you can figure out which is which. 

Coach_TV posted:

First of all let me say that I know this is early in the process, but I want to ask as my family tries to figure out the best path for our son.

My son is 13 and in 8^th grade, heading to HS next year and we are trying to figure out the best path for him as he moves into High School and HS baseball.

One of the things I’ve seen is learning about and attending showcases in our area.

My question in around the Perfect Game and Baseball Factory programs, having never been down this path before (older siblings participated in other activities); I’m not sure which one is the right choice.

 Any thoughts or input of which one is “better”  Or is there something completely different that we should look at when the time comes?

Thank you...

I took my 2018 to his first showcase as freshman year. It was a fundraiser for a local school district, with primarily D3 coaches. He learned a little about the format, was recommended to a strong fall travel team, and saw where he fit in among players of his age. Now he goes to one showcase a year--we've done PBR and thought it was fine, and less expensive than PG--strictly for the measurables. Coaches will often ask him very skeptically "what makes you think your fast ball hits 87?" Answering "let me send you the stats from my last showcase" is a really good answer.

Now that we know he has something to offer, we're considering whether to continue with PBR this spring or go to PG. Or maybe both. The showcases are an investment — we want to make sure they are wise.

IOWAMOM23,

Only reason I'm posting in this thread is because you are from Iowa.  For 20 + years every draft pick signed out of an Iowa HS, has played in PG Leagues and attended PG Showcases.  Even the U of Iowa instate recruits all play in the PG Leagues and showcases.  These players get national exposure and many have ended up at top colleges in the country like U of Florida, Southern Cal, Stanford, LSU, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, TCU, Baylor, Notre Dame and many others.

I don't really care what you do,  but if your son is very talented and you want him to get every possible opportunity, you should do the research.  The PG Leagues and showcases were started 20 years ago to benefit kids in Iowa.  The Leagues are scouted heavily by MLB scouts and college recruiters.  The alumni from the leagues and showcases include every single player in the past 20 years that have played professional baseball. Yes, every single one of them!  Also every player from the state that has gone on to play at a top DI program.

I'm only telling you this because it seems like you don't know this information.  If your son is an underclassmen throwing 87, you need to know.  This is not about wanting your money, I have no interest in selling you anything.  It will make no difference to us either way.  It could make a big difference for your son.  That is the only reason I have decided to post this.

Find out who the best players are from Iowa in the last 20 years or even now.  Then search the PG player database.  Better yet, if you have a way to contact any of them, ask them what your son should be doing.

Spot on PG. and when my son hits 87 we will definitely be there!  Unfortunately chances are very good he will hit 87 years old before he ever gets to 87mph!

PGStaff posted:

IOWAMOM23,

Only reason I'm posting in this thread is because you are from Iowa.  For 20 + years every draft pick signed out of an Iowa HS, has played in PG Leagues and attended PG Showcases.  Even the U of Iowa instate recruits all play in the PG Leagues and showcases.  These players get national exposure and many have ended up at top colleges in the country like U of Florida, Southern Cal, Stanford, LSU, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, TCU, Baylor, Notre Dame and many others.

I don't really care what you do,  but if your son is very talented and you want him to get every possible opportunity, you should do the research.  The PG Leagues and showcases were started 20 years ago to benefit kids in Iowa.  The Leagues are scouted heavily by MLB scouts and college recruiters.  The alumni from the leagues and showcases include every single player in the past 20 years that have played professional baseball. Yes, every single one of them!  Also every player from the state that has gone on to play at a top DI program.

I'm only telling you this because it seems like you don't know this information.  If your son is an underclassmen throwing 87, you need to know.  This is not about wanting your money, I have no interest in selling you anything.  It will make no difference to us either way.  It could make a big difference for your son.  That is the only reason I have decided to post this.

Find out who the best players are from Iowa in the last 20 years or even now.  Then search the PG player database.  Better yet, if you have a way to contact any of them, ask them what your son should be doing.

 

I do know. Thank you.

Rather specific question here maybe PG Staff can answer:  

Are the PG hitting metrics that they have with players on the site (specifically Exit Velo with Pocket Radar)  required to be measured  with a wood bat or are they allowed to use any approved BBCOR?  

If one over the other, why? 

Guess I will give a little contrarian opinion to showcases as we just completed this entire process with my son now in his first collegiate fall.  

He played with 11 or so teammates who are at various D1s in TX and other parts of the country.  A few D2 and D3 players as well. Not all but most completed a showcase of some sort with most doing a PG one.  

The general consensus was the absolute most impactful thing in the process was to be seen playing and competing at the game with the best teammates vs the best competition they could find. Most were first seen at PG events. Either the Underclass in Ft Myers or WWBA in Atlanta. 

Showcasing, rankings, and ratings are all different things. Coaches want to see kids play the game and compete  

One man's opinion is all. 

Full disclosure:  My son is not a showcase phenom as he doesn't light up radar gun.  Spending $600 for a showcase was a waste but he ended up where he wanted. 

For the past 20 years we have always used wood at showcase events with a couple of rare exceptions.  Our BCS division is all metal bat.

So to answer the question, all exit velocities other than at BCS events are recorded from wood bats.

Does he have something to show. Otherwise a showcase is a waste of money. For some it would be a huge waste of money. Do a local college showcase style camp. It will cost a lot less. Whatever he thinks of the talent at the local event tell him to multiply it by 1000 for Perfect Game. I watched a local D1 (a Big East when it was relevant) conduct a showcase for 36 players. They had four sessions with about 36 players at each. Of the 36, 32 were pretenders. They all had good arms and good hands. What 32 lacked was D1 bat speed.

Isn't the General Consensus here to wait until you at least throw 84-85 or so? I know kyle regularly makes fun of Kids throwing mid to upper 70s attending Showcases.

I'd recommend PG highly.  I agree with BLD that PBR results vary by state/region.  I would not recommend the New England option at PBR.

9and7dad posted:

I'd recommend PG highly.  I agree with BLD that PBR results vary by state/region.  I would not recommend the New England option at PBR.

Curious, it looks like PBR New England is making a huge makeover with the addition of Dennis Healy.  He was an AC at Wake Forest and seems to be having an impact.   I don't live in New England, just noticing his marketing efforts along with his addition of the Academic Games this past July.

Dominik85 posted:

Isn't the General Consensus here to wait until you at least throw 84-85 or so? I know kyle regularly makes fun of Kids throwing mid to upper 70s attending Showcases.

What if you're not a pitcher and you have a super high bat exit speed?  Is it all about throwing?  Someone has drive in runs, and play first base :-)   

PGStaff posted:

For the past 20 years we have always used wood at showcase events with a couple of rare exceptions.  Our BCS division is all metal bat.

So to answer the question, all exit velocities other than at BCS events are recorded from wood bats.

Thanks very much for the response.  Much appreciated! 

PGStaff had awesome advice MidAtlantic posted above. All should read it.

I'm not sure if it's a makeover or not.  I had never heard of PBR having a  presence in New England prior to Healy's addition, and we were very active in the recruiting/showcasing/travel team stuff during that time.  I'm well aware of Mr. Healy and both his time at Wake as well as his activities following his departure.

One thing I would add is to start early in targeting the schools he's interested in and where you and he feel he has a realistic chance to be competitive.  Go to the school's website there you'll find coach's contact info most of the time.  Start a dialogue with the coaches and go to their camps.

Coach_TV posted:

First of all let me say that I know this is early in the process, but I want to ask as my family tries to figure out the best path for our son.

My son is 13 and in 8^th grade, heading to HS next year and we are trying to figure out the best path for him as he moves into High School and HS baseball.

One of the things I’ve seen is learning about and attending showcases in our area.

My question in around the Perfect Game and Baseball Factory programs, having never been down this path before (older siblings participated in other activities); I’m not sure which one is the right choice.

 Any thoughts or input of which one is “better”  Or is there something completely different that we should look at when the time comes?

Thank you...

I have a 9th grader, I haven't been through this before but in my opinion here is what you need to know.

1. A PG showcase will have kids from 8th grade to 12th grade, your child will likely look like a child compared to those other players.  PG grades all people equal, if your kid is throwing 70mph he will get a score that is comparable to a senior throwing 70 mph. They don't grade on a curve based on age.  If he is the best 8th grader out there that might put him on par with an average 10th or 11th grader...that doesn't get a high score and it is something that will stay on his PG page until he does another showcase.

*******EDIT******

Apparently there IS a certain amount of a curve or projection being used:

Per PG Staff

"Grading a player involves projection to some degree.  However extreme projection on some is harder than others.

using an example... The 2020 that was mentioned throwing 86 and receiving a 9 grade.  The 9 is because he is a 2020.  There are no upperclassmen pitchers that top out at 86 and get a higher grade. Depending on many things, if he were a 2017 grad, his grade could be anything from a 7.5 to a 9.  It wouldn't be surprising to see him end up at 10 or even an 8 in three years."

*****************************End Edit**************

2. PG showcases are $650 last time I looked.  Baseball factory (for one position) is $99.

3. If you are looking for where the doors will open I'm going to have to say PG is king in this department, in my opinion...but he has to have something to show for someone to look and really you don't want anyone looking right now.  Please search through the threads for "early commit", and who really gets the advantage from that, the school or the kid.

4. If you are looking for the experience I personally would go with the cheaper option, and even better there are college skills camps that are between $100-$200 near you that will also fit the experience check box.  This would be my preferred choice if you think your kid is likely to want to go to a local college.

5. The best path for your son doesn't involve showcases in 8th grade, it involves him being on the best travel/summer team he can get on with knowledgeable coaches that can improve his game so that maybe when he is going into 10th grade he will be impressive at a PG showcase.

What if you have a kid who as a Freshman in High School can regularly square up fastballs that are 87 mph+?  And has a great glove as a middle infielder?  Isn't that something to show, even if his arm & footspeed hasn't developed yet?

Also:  PG Staff has said many times that Perfect Game likes to see progress as kids mature through high school

Finally: developmentally, because of age, a freshman whose parents can't afford $5000 per year Travel Teams (when you add in actual travel costs to national tournaments) doesn't get to see a lot of 87 mph+ pitching, so the experience as a youngster facing that level of pitching is priceless

The main reason for going, for my son, is the sheer fun of playing Baseball and the challenge of facing great players.   I agree with his thoughts that if he is having fun and working hard, things will take care of itself.  He will likely have the size and hand/eye coordination to play after high school, if he is fortunate enough to stay healthy and continues to love the game.  Where that ends up being will work itself out

Just my thoughts.  My kid isn't a pitcher, he's a hitter who can play multiple defensive positions

Goblue33 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

Isn't the General Consensus here to wait until you at least throw 84-85 or so? I know kyle regularly makes fun of Kids throwing mid to upper 70s attending Showcases.

What if you're not a pitcher and you have a super high bat exit speed?  Is it all about throwing?  Someone has drive in runs, and play first base :-)   

that was just an example, a 90 EV or a 6.8 60 probably does the job too. 

"5. The best path for your son doesn't involve showcases in 8th grade, it involves him being on the best travel/summer team he can get on with knowledgeable coaches that can improve his game so that maybe when he is going into 10th grade he will be impressive at a PG showcase."

This is spot on.  I have a Freshman D3 RHP who just completed the process the OP is just now starting and I also have a 9th grader.  I am not one that thinks showcasing an 8th or 9th grader is necessary but I know there are those that think it's helpful for their experience and development.  

PG showcases are great but they are for players who are ready (or think they are ready) to showcase their skills for college coaches right now.  They aren't for players looking to see what the showcase thing is all about so they won't be nervous down the road (in my opinion).  The performance at a PG showcase, the measurables, the PG rating will be out there for the rest of his HS baseball career and beyond for anyone to look at - including current and future teammates.  Unless your son is a player looking at an early commit there is no reason to have him attend a PG showcase (at $600+) to get those measurables and have them posted for all to see - find a local showcase where your costs and travel will be minimal.    

After you have the measurables have him work on his strength, speed and skills so he's ready to kill it when he does attend a PG showcase in a few years. 

3and2Fastball posted:

What if you have a kid who as a Freshman in High School can regularly square up fastballs that are 87 mph+?  And has a great glove as a middle infielder?  Isn't that something to show, even if his arm & footspeed hasn't developed yet?

Also:  PG Staff has said many times that Perfect Game likes to see progress as kids mature through high school

Finally: developmentally, because of age, a freshman whose parents can't afford $5000 per year Travel Teams (when you add in actual travel costs to national tournaments) doesn't get to see a lot of 87 mph+ pitching, so the experience as a youngster facing that level of pitching is priceless

The main reason for going, for my son, is the sheer fun of playing Baseball and the challenge of facing great players.   I agree with his thoughts that if he is having fun and working hard, things will take care of itself.  He will likely have the size and hand/eye coordination to play after high school, if he is fortunate enough to stay healthy and continues to love the game.  Where that ends up being will work itself out

Just my thoughts.  My kid isn't a pitcher, he's a hitter who can play multiple defensive positions

well if he plays good D and hits 87 he still has that ability a year later when his arm and foot speed have come around. 

projection is important but defense and hit without at least one current  plus physical tool (arm, speed or power) won't turn that many heads. 

but if you have the excess money it probably is a great experience for him and won't hurt. 

Let me try this another way.  I live 20 minutes from Lakepoint, we have a LOT of local talent and yet it is widely known around here not to showcase early unless you have something to show.

Pull up the 2016 August Underclassmen showcase as a perfect example. This was August, perfect time to showcase right?

2018 (Incoming Juniors) = 78

2019 (Incoming Sophomores) = 45

2020 (Incoming Freshman) = 26 (9 from GA)

2021 (8th grader) = 1 (local boy...didn't even get any stats or his picture taken, I wonder if he even showed up.

Okay, let's talk 2020's:

Score of 6 = 1

Score of 6.5 = 2

Score of 7.0 = 12

Score of 7.5 = 9

Score of 8.0 = 1 (he threw 80mph)

Score of 9 = 1 (he is 15, 6'1, and threw 86mph)

And that is the story if the 26 Freshman who went to the showcase.

Having 2 high D1 players/sons now finished with college and in pro ball, looking back, I still see no reason to showcase at age 13/8th grade.

Neither did, neither would today if they were that age.  But I know there's lots of younger parents out there who vehemently disagree with me.

Let me add my strong agreement to what Caco3girl and MK said, speaking from the perspective of a 2017 parent who has been going through this for years and is in the final stages of it.

My 2017 went to two PG showcases this Summer (his incoming Senior year)--one in San Diego and one in Orange County, areas filled with lots of baseball talent.  Each showcase had an incoming Freshman and it was really hard for me to watch what these kids went through (one was on my son's team).  No doubt these kids parents thought it was a good idea to get them on the PG radar and get their measurable done.  But watching an 8th grader try to throw from deep RF to 3B and Home, or from deep SS to first base was painful.  Then in the games the kids at bat were just hoping for a walk (which there aren't any because it is a showcase) because they were so overmatched.  The pitchers don't care if a kid is 14--they are there to be scouted and they are going to throw a moving 87 FB followed by a curve or change and then paint the black.  The kid on my son's team was so dejected after striking out every time that the other boys on the team tried their best to keep his head up.  I refuse to believe that experience was in any way, shape, or form good for those kids.

For incoming Freshman, the goal should be focusing on making the high school varsity team, then finding the best travel ball team possible.  If a freshman is good enough to make varsity (assuming a competitive team in a competitive area) they will get noticed in due time.  And the better travel ball teams will be paying attention.  He may have to play 16U for a Summer before moving to 18U, but he will get plenty of chances to play against top competition and talent.  And those travel teams get invited as teams to play in Perfect Game events where they will be heavily scouted.  And many of the top travel teams get invited to play weekend games on the campuses of the top D1 schools to give them golden opportunities for recruiting.

I have nothing against doing PG or Baseball Factory showcases--I think they are a great way to get into the databases with measurable and scouting reports.  But there is no reason to do them until Sophomore year or later.  Save the money from those and apply it to private coaching and travel ball.

Backstop22 posted:

Let me add my strong agreement to what Caco3girl and MK said, speaking from the perspective of a 2017 parent who has been going through this for years and is in the final stages of it.

My 2017 went to two PG showcases this Summer (his incoming Senior year)--one in San Diego and one in Orange County, areas filled with lots of baseball talent.  Each showcase had an incoming Freshman and it was really hard for me to watch what these kids went through (one was on my son's team).  No doubt these kids parents thought it was a good idea to get them on the PG radar and get their measurable done.  But watching an 8th grader try to throw from deep RF to 3B and Home, or from deep SS to first base was painful.  Then in the games the kids at bat were just hoping for a walk (which there aren't any because it is a showcase) because they were so overmatched.  The pitchers don't care if a kid is 14--they are there to be scouted and they are going to throw a moving 87 FB followed by a curve or change and then paint the black.  The kid on my son's team was so dejected after striking out every time that the other boys on the team tried their best to keep his head up.  I refuse to believe that experience was in any way, shape, or form good for those kids.

For incoming Freshman, the goal should be focusing on making the high school varsity team, then finding the best travel ball team possible.  If a freshman is good enough to make varsity (assuming a competitive team in a competitive area) they will get noticed in due time.  And the better travel ball teams will be paying attention.  He may have to play 16U for a Summer before moving to 18U, but he will get plenty of chances to play against top competition and talent.  And those travel teams get invited as teams to play in Perfect Game events where they will be heavily scouted.  And many of the top travel teams get invited to play weekend games on the campuses of the top D1 schools to give them golden opportunities for recruiting.

I have nothing against doing PG or Baseball Factory showcases--I think they are a great way to get into the databases with measurable and scouting reports.  But there is no reason to do them until Sophomore year or later.  Save the money from those and apply it to private coaching and travel ball.

 

Thanks, what you are saying makes sense.   Maybe we'll wait another year until my son is a rising Sophomore.   I know he'll be disappointed, because he wants to jump into it right away, but I'll tell him to give it time & be patient.

justbaseball posted:

Having 2 high D1 players/sons now finished with college and in pro ball, looking back, I still see no reason to showcase at age 13/8th grade.

Neither did, neither would today if they were that age.  But I know there's lots of younger parents out there who vehemently disagree with me.

Some players and parents have to learn the hard way (paying to watch their kid get overwhelmed).

I thought I would add my 2 cents.  The summer between Freshman and Soph year we took my son to a local D1 school ( about an hour away).  My husband had graduated from there and my older son is a student there.  It was a good way for my son to get used to a college camp without feeling any pressure.  Just to see what the competition was like and if he could keep up.  The coaches were amazing...and they also had some D3 coaches there who gave my son some tips.    All in all it was a great experience.  But as a caveat - my son is no longer pursuing college baseball (he is a 2017)...going to camps got to be too much for him...so be careful not to overwhelm your child.  All in all, we attended a total of about  7 college camps over the past 3 years in addition to PG event in GA this past summer, a PBR event in NY in June.   I think the summer events just did him in, too much pressure to perform and and he just stopped enjoying the process.

Well there is some very good information in the posts here.  However, some of that information is not correct.

Grading a player involves projection to some degree.  However extreme projection on some is harder than others.

using an example... The 2020 that was mentioned throwing 86 and receiving a 9 grade.  The 9 is because he is a 2020.  There are no upperclassmen pitchers that top out at 86 and get a higher grade. Depending on many things, if he were a 2017 grad, his grade could be anything from a 7.5 to a 9.  It wouldn't be surprising to see him end up at 10 or even an 8 in three years.

The one thing I wish people would quit doing is comparing prices as though everything else is equal.  Those thinking they are just doing something to gain experience, could be very surprised on how different the experiences can be from one event to another.

Also I wish people understood that we look at everything and consider everything.  Many first round picks have a weak skill.  Not every DI prospect. Throws well, runs well, or has power.  Hitting for example is probably the number one tool that both pro scouts and college coaches are looking at. Guys like Billy Butler didn't get to the big leagues based on anything other than his hitting ability.

Probably the least revealing skill/tool is speed.  By itself it is almost meaningless.  Then again if it combines with another skill or two it becomes very valuable.  Any single skill/tool stands out.  

Same thing goes for pitching.  Obviously velocity cannot be ignored.  However, if a pitcher shows outstanding command or an outstanding breaking ball, he doesn't need as much velocity to impress people.  It is not so simple that you put everyone in order based on velocity alone.  Yet, those pitchers that have the best velocity create a lot of interest.  And the biggest kicker is, you never know for sure how much velocity a pitcher might gain in the future.  But there are clues and that is what we look for. Some are much easier to project than others.

Over the years we have had people that think you show up and you get recruited.  It just doesn't work that way for everyone.  A player has to create interest. Maybe most important is they have to create interest by us.  If they can't do that, they are not going to get decision makers interested.  We would love to see every player get recruited by DI programs and/or get drafted.  Unfortunately that is not possible.

We have coaches contacting us all the time asking about players.  We have enough experience that we know if players can compete at various levels.  Many college coaches know this and even lots of DIII coaches want help recruiting kids that can help their program.

To me it is real simple... No matter what age!

A player lacks ability, really doesn't do anything that might interest a next level coach.  Perfect Game will give you every opportunity to show what you can do.  I feel sorry for the boy that parents put in an event and he just doesn't belong there.  We don't see many like that, but it's not good when we do.  Simple.... Don't spend money on Perfect Game Showcases unless you have something to show.  Have at least one skill, run, throw, field, hit, hit with power.  If you can't do at least one of those things well, you have no reason to attend any showcase and especially not a Perfect Game showcase.

A player that has excellent ability in one or more of the tools... That is the player that ends up being happy he came to a Perfect Game Showcase.  He will be known by most every decision maker in baseball.  Because our scouting service is by far the biggest one in all of baseball.  Most all colleges and all MLB clubs are subscribers.  Something that is very easy... Watching players at a PG event and knowing what is going to happen in the near future.  I actually have no problem trying to talk certain players into attending certain events.  Because I know how happy they will be that they attended.  There are even a few that have parents that post here that have experienced that.

Lastly, when it comes to baseball, I absolutely never lie.  If I do, I'm going to get caught.  That does not mean I am always correct.  I do not know everything there is to know about baseball, but due to experience and age, I do know quite a bit and I enjoy helping others.  I get quite a few private messages on this site.  Unless it is something very personal, I would rather someone just post the questions they have.  That way rather than answering for one person, I can answer for anyone that might be interested.  Also, I mean this, I get so many emails it is impossible to keep up with them.  Truth is I seldom check those private messages. At the same time I don't mind posting long replies like this one, because I can answer lots of questions people might have at one time.

PGStaff posted:

Well there is some very good information in the posts here.  However, some of that information is not correct.

Grading a player involves projection to some degree.  However extreme projection on some is harder than others.

using an example... The 2020 that was mentioned throwing 86 and receiving a 9 grade.  The 9 is because he is a 2020.  There are no upperclassmen pitchers that top out at 86 and get a higher grade. Depending on many things, if he were a 2017 grad, his grade could be anything from a 7.5 to a 9.  It wouldn't be surprising to see him end up at 10 or even an 8 in three years.

The one thing I wish people would quit doing is comparing prices as though everything else is equal.  Those thinking they are just doing something to gain experience, could be very surprised on how different the experiences can be from one event to another.

Also I wish people understood that we look at everything and consider everything.  Many first round picks have a weak skill.  Not every DI prospect. Throws well, runs well, or has power.  Hitting for example is probably the number one tool that both pro scouts and college coaches are looking at. Guys like Billy Butler didn't get to the big leagues based on anything other than his hitting ability.

Probably the least revealing skill/tool is speed.  By itself it is almost meaningless.  Then again if it combines with another skill or two it becomes very valuable.  Any single skill/tool stands out.  

Same thing goes for pitching.  Obviously velocity cannot be ignored.  However, if a pitcher shows outstanding command or an outstanding breaking ball, he doesn't need as much velocity to impress people.  It is not so simple that you put everyone in order based on velocity alone.  Yet, those pitchers that have the best velocity create a lot of interest.  And the biggest kicker is, you never know for sure how much velocity a pitcher might gain in the future.  But there are clues and that is what we look for. Some are much easier to project than others.

Over the years we have had people that think you show up and you get recruited.  It just doesn't work that way for everyone.  A player has to create interest. Maybe most important is they have to create interest by us.  If they can't do that, they are not going to get decision makers interested.  We would love to see every player get recruited by DI programs and/or get drafted.  Unfortunately that is not possible.

We have coaches contacting us all the time asking about players.  We have enough experience that we know if players can compete at various levels.  Many college coaches know this and even lots of DIII coaches want help recruiting kids that can help their program.

To me it is real simple... No matter what age!

A player lacks ability, really doesn't do anything that might interest a next level coach.  Perfect Game will give you every opportunity to show what you can do.  I feel sorry for the boy that parents put in an event and he just doesn't belong there.  We don't see many like that, but it's not good when we do.  Simple.... Don't spend money on Perfect Game Showcases unless you have something to show.  Have at least one skill, run, throw, field, hit, hit with power.  If you can't do at least one of those things well, you have no reason to attend any showcase and especially not a Perfect Game showcase.

A player that has excellent ability in one or more of the tools... That is the player that ends up being happy he came to a Perfect Game Showcase.  He will be known by most every decision maker in baseball.  Because our scouting service is by far the biggest one in all of baseball.  Most all colleges and all MLB clubs are subscribers.  Something that is very easy... Watching players at a PG event and knowing what is going to happen in the near future.  I actually have no problem trying to talk certain players into attending certain events.  Because I know how happy they will be that they attended.  There are even a few that have parents that post here that have experienced that.

Lastly, when it comes to baseball, I absolutely never lie.  If I do, I'm going to get caught.  That does not mean I am always correct.  I do not know everything there is to know about baseball, but due to experience and age, I do know quite a bit and I enjoy helping others.  I get quite a few private messages on this site.  Unless it is something very personal, I would rather someone just post the questions they have.  That way rather than answering for one person, I can answer for anyone that might be interested.  Also, I mean this, I get so many emails it is impossible to keep up with them.  Truth is I seldom check those private messages. At the same time I don't mind posting long replies like this one, because I can answer lots of questions people might have at one time.

PG 

does it help out in the recruit process if my player is selected to multi PG  - All tournament teams ? Or do they even look at certain numbers ?

RKBH posted:

I thought I would add my 2 cents.  The summer between Freshman and Soph year we took my son to a local D1 school ( about an hour away).  My husband had graduated from there and my older son is a student there.  It was a good way for my son to get used to a college camp without feeling any pressure.  Just to see what the competition was like and if he could keep up.  The coaches were amazing...and they also had some D3 coaches there who gave my son some tips.    All in all it was a great experience.  But as a caveat - my son is no longer pursuing college baseball (he is a 2017)...going to camps got to be too much for him...so be careful not to overwhelm your child.  All in all, we attended a total of about  7 college camps over the past 3 years in addition to PG event in GA this past summer, a PBR event in NY in June.   I think the summer events just did him in, too much pressure to perform and and he just stopped enjoying the process.

To me, thats a very valuable post RKBH.  Most parents that reach the point you and your son have just stop posting.  I think its very important to listen to your son(/daughter).  It has to be fun, or else...

Our older daughter is the best athlete in our family.  Easily.  She has been very good at everything she tried. Soccer, softball, gymnastics, diving, volleyball...even baseball at a young age.  She's fast, she's athletic, she works her tail off.

Yet after 4 years as a varsity HS and club diver (one of the best in our area of CA), despite her (club) coach telling her she could dive at a D1, she hung it up.  Why?  She wanted to pursue engineering and couldn't see how she could do both.  It wasn't so much "fun" anymore to her.  I was awfully proud of her decision, and she is now about a year away from graduating in engineering...and doing terrific at that too.

I'm awfully glad we listened to her.  Couldn't be happier about that.

There has been some discussion about PG going too young and maybe doing other things with a profit motive in mind, but once you read PGSTAFF's post, it really drives the point home that profit is not the #1 priority.  While the joke about parking at Lakepoint may never fade away completely, I wanted to applaud PGSTAFF for providing a very clear outline as to the purpose PG showcases serve and what purposes they do not serve.  The advice to not showcase when you do not yet have an above average tool is really good advice - and comes from THE source.

Thanks for bringing clarity to the subject.

C2019,

The best way for me to answer your question is... It sure won't hurt!

However, the all tournament teams are based on statistics.  And statistics are not the most reliable ingredient.  That said, when a player is on several All Tournament lists, it starts to mean more and more.

Any of our top prospect lists would carry a lot more weight with recruiters and scouts.  Still, I would definitely want to tell any college I was interested in, that I made multiple, or even one, PG All Tournament list. It does show that a player performed well and that always means a lot and could create some interest.

Congratulations BTW.

justbaseball posted:

RKBH posted:

I thought I would add my 2 cents.  The summer between Freshman and Soph year we took my son to a local D1 school ( about an hour away).  My husband had graduated from there and my older son is a student there.  It was a good way for my son to get used to a college camp without feeling any pressure.  Just to see what the competition was like and if he could keep up.  The coaches were amazing...and they also had some D3 coaches there who gave my son some tips.    All in all it was a great experience.  But as a caveat - my son is no longer pursuing college baseball (he is a 2017)...going to camps got to be too much for him...so be careful not to overwhelm your child.  All in all, we attended a total of about  7 college camps over the past 3 years in addition to PG event in GA this past summer, a PBR event in NY in June.   I think the summer events just did him in, too much pressure to perform and and he just stopped enjoying the process.

To me, thats a very valuable post RKBH.  Most parents that reach the point you and your son have just stop posting.  I think its very important to listen to your son(/daughter).  It has to be fun, or else...

Our older daughter is the best athlete in our family.  Easily.  She has been very good at everything she tried. Soccer, softball, gymnastics, diving, volleyball...even baseball at a young age.  She's fast, she's athletic, she works her tail off.

Yet after 4 years as a varsity HS and club diver (one of the best in our area of CA), despite her (club) coach telling her she could dive at a D1, she hung it up.  Why?  She wanted to pursue engineering and couldn't see how she could do both.  It wasn't so much "fun" anymore to her.  I was awfully proud of her decision, and she is now about a year away from graduating in engineering...and doing terrific at that too.

I'm awfully glad we listened to her.  Couldn't be happier about that.

So glad to hear it worked out for your daughter.  To be honest, I am still feeling bad that my son does not want to pursue college baseball but I am not telling him that.  I am staying on this site because I think our experiences can help others.    He will be fine wherever he decides to go to college.  The Patriot League school he is going to apply to has a club team...so maybe he will do that...but if I know him he will play rec soccer, golf and any other sport he can get his hands (or club)  on a ball!!!  My son would like to study at the London School of Economics for a few semesters...that is 1 of the reasons he is not going after college baseball...but I hear there are club/intramurals in London as well...so hopefully he will find those when he does go there.  Thanks for making me feel good about my posting.  

2017LHPSCREWBALL,

Thanks for saying that... Anyone that really knows me well will tell you I'm not motivated by money or profits.  My goals have nothing to do with personal wealth.

That said, we have created somewhat of a monster.   I don't run the business and do concentrate on the baseball.  Like any business we need to be profitable, but I was just as happy the first several years when we were going broke, other than going broke wasn't much fun.  If it wasn't for what we were doing helping young baseball players in our home state, Perfect Game would have gone out of business many years ago.

I will admit, though making a pile of money was never the goal.  I have been very lucky to have a lot of great people on our staff.  And though money was never the motivation, I'm not allergic to the stuff!  I just don't need a lot of it to be happy. 

PGStaff posted:

2017LHPSCREWBALL,

Thanks for saying that... Anyone that really knows me well will tell you I'm not motivated by money or profits.  My goals have nothing to do with personal wealth.

That said, we have created somewhat of a monster.   I don't run the business and do concentrate on the baseball.  Like any business we need to be profitable, but I was just as happy the first several years when we were going broke, other than going broke wasn't much fun.  If it wasn't for what we were doing helping young baseball players in our home state, Perfect Game would have gone out of business many years ago.

I will admit, though making a pile of money was never the goal.  I have been very lucky to have a lot of great people on our staff.  And though money was never the motivation, I'm not allergic to the stuff!  I just don't need a lot of it to be happy. 

For what its worth that coincides with what the 14/15u crowd thinks of you, that you are in it now and always have been for the love of the game and for helping kids.

RKBH posted:

So glad to hear it worked out for your daughter.  To be honest, I am still feeling bad that my son does not want to pursue college baseball but I am not telling him that.  I am staying on this site because I think our experiences can help others.    He will be fine wherever he decides to go to college.  The Patriot League school he is going to apply to has a club team...so maybe he will do that...but if I know him he will play rec soccer, golf and any other sport he can get his hands (or club)  on a ball!!!  My son would like to study at the London School of Economics for a few semesters...that is 1 of the reasons he is not going after college baseball...but I hear there are club/intramurals in London as well...so hopefully he will find those when he does go there.  Thanks for making me feel good about my posting.  

I'll add one more thing that may become relevant to your son.  A number of times our daughter has wandered by the pool and seen the diving team practicing at her university.  She will tell me things like, "I'm pretty sure I would've/could've done well on that team - but I'm happy with my decision."

We are too.

I am not speaking abt PG showcases specifically. My son has done regional and PBR showcases, and played in PG tourneys, but never a PG showcase...

A showcase is good becasue

- It's fun and interesting to see where your player stacks up against the talent. You won't find many 8th graders at showcases however.

- It's a good way to get your player to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations. It's basically tryout practice. Like taking the SATs a couple times.

A showcase is bad because

- You pay your money and your player spends most of the time waiting around for their chance to demonstrate his abilities. You will travel and wait around all day for abt 15 minutes of actual playtime. And if he's a Pitcher Only? Forget about it. One inning. Maybe two. It drives my son crazy. He hates them even though he recognizes their value. It might be nerve wracking as an 8th grader waiting around and watching 16YOs throwing 85.

- If you don't have a specific goal, like a specific school or a specific coach that you want to see your player, then it may be a waste of money. Like I said my son has done a few showcases and they have generated interest. A coach will email and say I saw you here or there, but the next sentence is usually an invitation to their college camp (for more $$$).

One thing I did with my son as an 8th grader was sign him up for a winter camp at the local small D3 state college. It was an accident actually. I thought I was signing him up for a skills clinic. Come to find out it was really a high school prospect camp. The boy was big for his age and always played up and he did fine. He was not the worst player there. It was funny though to see him want to do everything - pop times, pitch, infield, etc, while the other players were trying out for primary positions. Kids don't think abt things the same way when they are barely out of Little League!

IMO the best way to get your player ready for the next level is to have him play up and find the best competition available. And keep him busy and keep it fun. Pitch to him and play catch with him. Enjoy every moment because it ends very suddenly.

PGStaff posted:

Well there is some very good information in the posts here.  However, some of that information is not correct.

Grading a player involves projection to some degree.  However extreme projection on some is harder than others.

using an example... The 2020 that was mentioned throwing 86 and receiving a 9 grade.  The 9 is because he is a 2020.  There are no upperclassmen pitchers that top out at 86 and get a higher grade. Depending on many things, if he were a 2017 grad, his grade could be anything from a 7.5 to a 9.  It wouldn't be surprising to see him end up at 10 or even an 8 in three years.

The one thing I wish people would quit doing is comparing prices as though everything else is equal.  Those thinking they are just doing something to gain experience, could be very surprised on how different the experiences can be from one event to another.

Also I wish people understood that we look at everything and consider everything.  Many first round picks have a weak skill.  Not every DI prospect. Throws well, runs well, or has power.  Hitting for example is probably the number one tool that both pro scouts and college coaches are looking at. Guys like Billy Butler didn't get to the big leagues based on anything other than his hitting ability.

Probably the least revealing skill/tool is speed.  By itself it is almost meaningless.  Then again if it combines with another skill or two it becomes very valuable.  Any single skill/tool stands out.  

Same thing goes for pitching.  Obviously velocity cannot be ignored.  However, if a pitcher shows outstanding command or an outstanding breaking ball, he doesn't need as much velocity to impress people.  It is not so simple that you put everyone in order based on velocity alone.  Yet, those pitchers that have the best velocity create a lot of interest.  And the biggest kicker is, you never know for sure how much velocity a pitcher might gain in the future.  But there are clues and that is what we look for. Some are much easier to project than others.

Over the years we have had people that think you show up and you get recruited.  It just doesn't work that way for everyone.  A player has to create interest. Maybe most important is they have to create interest by us.  If they can't do that, they are not going to get decision makers interested.  We would love to see every player get recruited by DI programs and/or get drafted.  Unfortunately that is not possible.

We have coaches contacting us all the time asking about players.  We have enough experience that we know if players can compete at various levels.  Many college coaches know this and even lots of DIII coaches want help recruiting kids that can help their program.

To me it is real simple... No matter what age!

A player lacks ability, really doesn't do anything that might interest a next level coach.  Perfect Game will give you every opportunity to show what you can do.  I feel sorry for the boy that parents put in an event and he just doesn't belong there.  We don't see many like that, but it's not good when we do.  Simple.... Don't spend money on Perfect Game Showcases unless you have something to show.  Have at least one skill, run, throw, field, hit, hit with power.  If you can't do at least one of those things well, you have no reason to attend any showcase and especially not a Perfect Game showcase.

A player that has excellent ability in one or more of the tools... That is the player that ends up being happy he came to a Perfect Game Showcase.  He will be known by most every decision maker in baseball.  Because our scouting service is by far the biggest one in all of baseball.  Most all colleges and all MLB clubs are subscribers.  Something that is very easy... Watching players at a PG event and knowing what is going to happen in the near future.  I actually have no problem trying to talk certain players into attending certain events.  Because I know how happy they will be that they attended.  There are even a few that have parents that post here that have experienced that.

Lastly, when it comes to baseball, I absolutely never lie.  If I do, I'm going to get caught.  That does not mean I am always correct.  I do not know everything there is to know about baseball, but due to experience and age, I do know quite a bit and I enjoy helping others.  I get quite a few private messages on this site.  Unless it is something very personal, I would rather someone just post the questions they have.  That way rather than answering for one person, I can answer for anyone that might be interested.  Also, I mean this, I get so many emails it is impossible to keep up with them.  Truth is I seldom check those private messages. At the same time I don't mind posting long replies like this one, because I can answer lots of questions people might have at one time.

@PGStaff Great information and thank you for sharing it.  Quick question though, when will your Showcases be posted on the PG Website?  We live in Omaha and would like to participate either by observing or actually being a part of the process.

Thank you again!