Whirlwind college tour

Glad your wife and son had a good trip!  If you feel like you missed out, most schools now have a YouTube or such school visit video online.

FWIW, keewartson went to a HA D1 school.  The coach asked, more than once, "will you be getting all 4 years of Spanish in HS?"  "How is Spanish going?"  Apparently, the language requirements not made in HS that need to be taken in college have caused some stress in baseball players....especially due to the travel.  

Great post - after HF this coming weekend, we will be making a bunch of visits with our 2019 as well.  An exciting time!

Tequila,

For me (as a parent).....those long college recruiting trips were the best of times and the worst of times.   So much information is being thrown at the recruit that it is inconceivable to me that a 18 year old kid could process all of this information without a parent.   I totally understand your concern with admissions and then once he is admitted to stay on top of his studies.  This was a major concern for me, and I asked very pointed questions on this topic.   The coaches answers depended on what the school would allow with tutors or outside help.   One thing I did like (with his eventual school) was that the coaches met with each freshmen baseball player (Friday afternoon after practice) to monitor and manage their academic progress and they were paired up with an upper classmen that had their same major.

No doubt the most rigorous courses available were a requirement for admission to many HAs.  In addition, grades and SAT are important but we found it was necessary to have a "hook" outside of baseball to really set the recruit apart from other recruits and the regular student population.   Admission at some of schools in the conferences you mentioned are off the charts.   I recall being at orientation with my son and the Dean of Engineering told his incoming class their acceptance rate was half of what the rest of the school was, and there were another couple hundred students with exactly the same academic metrics that did not get in.   The difference was their interest in other activities and a sense of being a well rounded candidate.  

Good luck with your upcoming decision.  

Wait until you start looking into the finances.  Just got off the phone with my son's top choice and it doesn't look like we'll be able to accept their offer, which is crushing.  I'll have 3 kids in college at the same time, and they're no where close to meeting 1/3 of my EFC. Totally heartbreaking...

CTbballDad posted:

Wait until you start looking into the finances.  Just got off the phone with my son's top choice and it doesn't look like we'll be able to accept their offer, which is crushing.  I'll have 3 kids in college at the same time, and they're no where close to meeting 1/3 of my EFC. Totally heartbreaking...

Keep at it CTbballdad.  My nephew (in a different sport) was offered very little money the first time.  They politely informed the HC it wasn't doable because of finances.  A few days later, lo and behold, HC informs them he "found" some additional money from other scholarships.  I guess it boils down to how badly the school wants the player. Good luck

Great stuff Tequila! 

I really enjoyed these trips.  There are so many wonderful colleges all across the US. 

For our youngest, a D3 guy for sure, we found that meeting with his Admissions rep (on campus, at his high school, at a college fair, etc.) was pretty important.  That person will definitely be reading the prospective student's application.  And if we made it to campus, we always had our son interview with Admissions, even it it wasn't with his regional rep.  Expressing interest in the school, learning more about the college and it's admissions process, etc. 

When we visited campus, we stopped doing the formal campus tours and orientation sessions.  They all sounded too much the same.  We would walk the campus ourselves.  My son always met with Admissions and interviewed.  Always tried to meet with the Head Coach or top assistant.  And we visited the baseball field, workout facilities, and dining hall...his priorities.  Once back in the car it was a quick first reaction...pros and cons and could you see yourself here.  Good times!

Trust In Him posted:

CTbballDad posted:

Wait until you start looking into the finances.  Just got off the phone with my son's top choice and it doesn't look like we'll be able to accept their offer, which is crushing.  I'll have 3 kids in college at the same time, and they're no where close to meeting 1/3 of my EFC. Totally heartbreaking...

Keep at it CTbballdad.  My nephew (in a different sport) was offered very little money the first time.  They politely informed the HC it wasn't doable because of finances.  A few days later, lo and behold, HC informs them he "found" some additional money from other scholarships.  I guess it boils down to how badly the school wants the player. Good luck

Thanks!  We'll try to push, but they did offer a decent amount.  Problem is, they don't take into consideration my other 2 kids.  Example, school is $65K, and they offer $25K, which is seems great.  But $40K x 3 = $120K/year...impossible!!

We have a better offer from another school, which fits our budget.  It's just not his top choice....but don't look a gift horse...right?

FYI, since I didn't list the schools in my initial post. The visits we made were to Kenyon, Case Western Reserve, Middlebury, Tufts, Trinity, and Wesleyan. Sorry I didn't list these earlier, I just didn't know how much value calling out the individual schools might be and didn't really know the "protocol" for this. I'm planning to sit down with the family a little later and come up with a short summary of our overall impressions of each, which I'll post to this thread. Thanks for all the comments!

For max financial aid, make sure the FA officers KNOW about the other college kids. While we had 2 in college, FA was adjusted to reflect that fact (additionally, the cost of private HS for my younger was considered in increasing FA for the college kid).

CTbballDad posted:

Wait until you start looking into the finances.  Just got off the phone with my son's top choice and it doesn't look like we'll be able to accept their offer, which is crushing.  I'll have 3 kids in college at the same time, and they're no where close to meeting 1/3 of my EFC. Totally heartbreaking...

One of my friend’s son’s played at a NESCAC. Finances/affordability was discussed between the coach and the parents. The student doesn’t really know what he’s receiving until after he’s accepted. My friend said to me, “Holy bleep! I told the coach I’m a musician. He must have thought I said magician.”

As promised...

Kenyon - Rural surrounding area, little need for car, minimal community volunteering relative to other visits, beautiful small campus with old-style architecture, the town of Gambier is essentially made up of faculty and staff and supporting college system.

Common admissions application, no supplemental essay required i.e. in addition to the required essay, will fly prospective students in for overnight after admission has been granted, prior to acceptance, and pay for expenses ( advertised to ensure the fit is right).

Sports facilities are top notch. Baseball field appears to be undergoing some work.

Very diverse group of tour and information session students. Generally a very liberal environment based on the information that was provided.

Case Western Reserve - Integrated into the city of Cleveland and its culture. Modern campus with the inclusion of the Cleveland Symphony, fine arts museum, etc.

Common admissions application preferred but Coalition accepted, no supplemental essay required. Admissions encourages the expression of a general career path interest though not required.

Nice indoor sports facilities. We did not see the baseball field but it is located on campus.

Culturally diverse urban center with students that reflect that based on who we were exposed to. School is strong in the STEM areas but other Liberal Arts disciplines are available.

Middlebury - Rural surrounding area (town of Middlebury), town and campus tightly integrated, heavy local volunteering by college resources, zero carbon footprint campus (5 leed certified buildings on campus), grow some of their own food, solar farm, etc.

Sports facilities are top notch. Own and operate their own ski area and golf course, both open to the public.

The majority of the student body studies abroad their junior year (including baseball players). Athletic support seems to be really good.

Trinity (CT) - Beautiful campus surrounded by difficult living conditions for mainly Puerto Rican citizens stretching downtown to the gold plated domed Capitol in Hartford, CT. The college is very involved in the surrounding community and this is stressed as an important ongoing policy/initiative.

Common application, supplemental essay, and three letters of recommendation required. They stress demonstrated school interest during the application process.

Didn't get much exposure to sports facilities but could see from a distance. Nice looking turf baseball field.

Plenty of social diversity but probably not at the level of Kenyon.

Tufts - To be fair, we did not learn as much here, or at Wesleyan, because the information sessions were either booked full or not available.

Another beautiful campus, in Medford, MA. Ethnically diverse student body and the tour was packed i.e. probably 100 people on a Friday afternoon.

Didn't get exposed to any sports facilities.

They didn't really get a fair shake with us simply because of time but we surmised that this was likely the most academically rigorous of the schools we visited.

Wesleyan University - Nice campus in Middletown, CT. As all of the others, very steeped in tradition.

Nice sports facilities from what we saw. Maybe not as personalized of a visit as some of the others and we were very tired at that time from being on the road for seven days. Another one with not as fair of a shake but will likely see the coaches at a camp in September so more to report after that.

I hope this helps someone. All of the visits were well worthwhile and I often think these are the things that really make the process meaningful over and above the end result. I told the the Mrs. and Jr. that I'm a tiny bit jealous that I had to stay home and work!

I think Middlebury is building a new ball field. My son fell in love with the workout facilities there.

CTbballDad posted:

Trust In Him posted:

CTbballDad posted:

Wait until you start looking into the finances.  Just got off the phone with my son's top choice and it doesn't look like we'll be able to accept their offer, which is crushing.  I'll have 3 kids in college at the same time, and they're no where close to meeting 1/3 of my EFC. Totally heartbreaking...

Keep at it CTbballdad.  My nephew (in a different sport) was offered very little money the first time.  They politely informed the HC it wasn't doable because of finances.  A few days later, lo and behold, HC informs them he "found" some additional money from other scholarships.  I guess it boils down to how badly the school wants the player. Good luck

Thanks!  We'll try to push, but they did offer a decent amount.  Problem is, they don't take into consideration my other 2 kids.  Example, school is $65K, and they offer $25K, which is seems great.  But $40K x 3 = $120K/year...impossible!!

We have a better offer from another school, which fits our budget.  It's just not his top choice....but don't look a gift horse...right?

Yes - at least that is my way of thinking.  If it fits the budget and is a good school (perhaps not as presitgious as the top choice but still very good in the scheme of things), do it.  This may sound harsh, but more often than not it seems that the student ends up loving it and forgetting about the other (allegedly more prestigious) school that is not affordable.  If money is not an issue, of course go to the college with the "best" reputation.  But for the vast majority, money is an issue and why go into debt for the name when there is a perfectly good college that wants your son and fits your budget??  I used to be much more brand/name conscious but after doing some research and reading, I've discovered that there are many great options below the "top" tier LACs that are much more affordable.

Qhead posted:

CTbballDad posted:

Trust In Him posted:

CTbballDad posted:

Wait until you start looking into the finances.  Just got off the phone with my son's top choice and it doesn't look like we'll be able to accept their offer, which is crushing.  I'll have 3 kids in college at the same time, and they're no where close to meeting 1/3 of my EFC. Totally heartbreaking...

Keep at it CTbballdad.  My nephew (in a different sport) was offered very little money the first time.  They politely informed the HC it wasn't doable because of finances.  A few days later, lo and behold, HC informs them he "found" some additional money from other scholarships.  I guess it boils down to how badly the school wants the player. Good luck

Thanks!  We'll try to push, but they did offer a decent amount.  Problem is, they don't take into consideration my other 2 kids.  Example, school is $65K, and they offer $25K, which is seems great.  But $40K x 3 = $120K/year...impossible!!

We have a better offer from another school, which fits our budget.  It's just not his top choice....but don't look a gift horse...right?

Yes - at least that is my way of thinking.  If it fits the budget and is a good school (perhaps not as presitgious as the top choice but still very good in the scheme of things), do it.  This may sound harsh, but more often than not it seems that the student ends up loving it and forgetting about the other (allegedly more prestigious) school that is not affordable.  If money is not an issue, of course go to the college with the "best" reputation.  But for the vast majority, money is an issue and why go into debt for the name when there is a perfectly good college that wants your son and fits your budget??  I used to be much more brand/name conscious but after doing some research and reading, I've discovered that there are many great options below the "top" tier LACs that are much more affordable.

Couldn't agree more!  I failed in convincing my oldest daughter when she chose the more expensive school, taking on loans, rather than the ones who offered money.  Now my son is saying he's been offered at his dream school, now needs to say no.  

I truly believe once a kid walks on a campus, they'll fall in love, and they'll quickly forget the others.  Convincing them of that, however, is the difficult part.

The best thing is when your son is at his dream school, AND it's the least expensive one!

Sometimes the cost is worth it; sometimes not, depending on your best guess of the future. 

For example, if grad school isn't on the horizon, delve into the employment results of the graduating class - can grads get good jobs outside the school's geographic area (schools do surveys of grads and have the info),  what type of jobs, what starting salaries, which companies recruit on campus or on-line? Some D3 grads (e.g., Haverford, Williams, Caltech, etc.) have significant opportunities to enter banking , wall street, or consulting with six figure entry salaries (salary, benefits, bonus). So, if that is a potential path for your kid, the 70k expense may be worth it.  Other schools may not offer those types of employment - but are 70k nevertheless.

On the other hand, if your kid is potentially headed to grad school, pick a school with a solid track record of good grad school acceptances.

Also, there are D3 schools with 3-2 programs which allow a kid to transfer for (e.g.) engineering. (I believe Columbia participates in some of these 3-2s.) 

There  are lots of options - cost is but one variable.

(We did receive FA for 6 of the eight combined years my kids were in college. We paid full boat for two, were squeezed like a lemon, used savings, and lowered our lifestyle for two years. But, we gambled that neither would go to grad school - on our nickel - and viewed employment opportunities as a very high priority. My D - a Chem Eng with a finance concentration [minor] - finished slighly above class average, had multiple big finance offers and (one year in) loves and is loved in her job (1500 miles from "home") and fends off headhunters on a daily basis. After his baseball career ended, son joined a big international firm which had extended him a job offer originally- his entry salary was based upon his school. He finished middle of his class with a degree in economics (heavy math and data analysis) and loves and is loved in his job. For us, the school money was well spent and no need for further aid to either kid. )

Lots of moving pieces, and no sure straight path to the end. 

Awesome post Goosegg, and great advice for those considering this path.  We made similar assumptions....grad school was going to be on my son (and his younger brothers) or their respective employers.   The Bank of Mom & Dad is closed for business after undergrad.   Sons were responsible for some student loans...truthfully, I think this is a really good thing.   Both of my older sons were able to pay their loans off within 10 months after graduation...both had excellent jobs lined up before they graduated.   So, I really think it is worthwhile to map this out with a timeline and make some assumptions with each son (or daughter).   There were two years where we had to really tighten our belts as we had two in college at the same time.   If the goals, assumptions, and finances don't match up then you look at other options. 

The opportunity for college baseball became part of the decision, but it took it's place along side academics and finances in our house.  Our "money tree" was more like a money bush. 

As always, JMO.

tequila posted:

FYI, since I didn't list the schools in my initial post. The visits we made were to Kenyon, Case Western Reserve, Middlebury, Tufts, Trinity, and Wesleyan. Sorry I didn't list these earlier, I just didn't know how much value calling out the individual schools might be and didn't really know the "protocol" for this. I'm planning to sit down with the family a little later and come up with a short summary of our overall impressions of each, which I'll post to this thread. Thanks for all the comments!

All great schools with diff offerings:  Case Western and Tufts with engineering opportunity's. All but Trinity are in the 30-33 ACT range....So, if your baseball skills are desired by the HC, he's hoping you have at least that 30 ACT to support through admissions.  

I think Middlebury is the most beautiful. How did your son like the Field House??

keewart posted:

Glad your wife and son had a good trip!  If you feel like you missed out, most schools now have a YouTube or such school visit video online.

FWIW, keewartson went to a HA D1 school.  The coach asked, more than once, "will you be getting all 4 years of Spanish in HS?"  "How is Spanish going?"  Apparently, the language requirements not made in HS that need to be taken in college have caused some stress in baseball players....especially due to the travel.  

My son took three years of French in HS. He planned to drop it his senior year since he had more than met the graduation requirements. and then he committed to Iowa and the academic advisor pointed out that he needed four years of a foreign language or would have to take it at there. He STRONGLY recommended he get that fourth year done in HS. He had to get permission from the French teacher and his high school principal and work his fanny off to catch up since he didn't commit until September. 

I see posts like the ones above and have to admit, i am a bit envious of the smart kids and their career mindsets/aptitudes when i think of mine who kind of gambled on baseball. While i think he'll be fine, i know he could have worked harder in the classroom and created a professional path outside of baseball when done. I think these stories are awesome and it speaks of all the opps that baseball can afford you at whatever level, the parents behind those kids and the success these kids enjoy after working hard in the classroom and on the field. Congrats!

btw the road trip sounds pretty cool. I recall the recruiting trip i went on with son and his best friend when he got his big offers....while it was much less driving across fewer states and fewer schools, we enjoyed our "BRO-ad Trip" and will never forget those memories. 

Gov posted:

tequila posted:

FYI, since I didn't list the schools in my initial post. The visits we made were to Kenyon, Case Western Reserve, Middlebury, Tufts, Trinity, and Wesleyan. Sorry I didn't list these earlier, I just didn't know how much value calling out the individual schools might be and didn't really know the "protocol" for this. I'm planning to sit down with the family a little later and come up with a short summary of our overall impressions of each, which I'll post to this thread. Thanks for all the comments!

All great schools with diff offerings:  Case Western and Tufts with engineering opportunity's. All but Trinity are in the 30-33 ACT range....So, if your baseball skills are desired by the HC, he's hoping you have at least that 30 ACT to support through admissions.  

I think Middlebury is the most beautiful. How did your son like the Field House??

Completely concur with your assessment. One good thing about Middlebury, related to the ACT, is that they superscore.

....and he thought the field house was amazing there .

I have one kid who went the high academic path and another who is definitely not going in that path.  

I think the high academic thing is, similar to Baseball, either you love it or you don't.   The kids with a certain amount of prerequisite talent whose idea of fun is getting an extra 100 ground balls and love working on hitting 5-7 days a week.  They go far in Baseball.

Same with the high academic path.  Some kids love school.  They love reading, they love learning languages, they love math etc... I have a niece in pre-med at a great university.  When she was in high school the entire family would be tailgating at a ballgame grilling out etc and she was doing advanced calculus during the ballgame.   Not because she had homework, because it was fun, to her.  She's gonna be one helluva doctor someday!

I don't think you can force the high academic thing on somebody, they either have it or they don't.  Naturally smart kids who hate school but get good grades can get themselves academic money at less challenging universities, but would likely be miserable at a true high academic school.  Just my two cents having been through it already.

CTbballDad posted:

Qhead

Yes - at least that is my way of thinking.  If it fits the budget and is a good school (perhaps not as presitgious as the top choice but still very good in the scheme of things), do it.  This may sound harsh, but more often than not it seems that the student ends up loving it and forgetting about the other (allegedly more prestigious) school that is not affordable.  If money is not an issue, of course go to the college with the "best" reputation.  But for the vast majority, money is an issue and why go into debt for the name when there is a perfectly good college that wants your son and fits your budget??  I used to be much more brand/name conscious but after doing some research and reading, I've discovered that there are many great options below the "top" tier LACs that are much more affordable.

Couldn't agree more!  I failed in convincing my oldest daughter when she chose the more expensive school, taking on loans, rather than the ones who offered money.  Now my son is saying he's been offered at his dream school, now needs to say no.  

I truly believe once a kid walks on a campus, they'll fall in love, and they'll quickly forget the others.  Convincing them of that, however, is the difficult part.

My experience from ~30 years ago may not mean much, but:  The college I went to was actually my 4th choice.  There were three other schools I greatly preferred and they accepted me, but to attend them I would have had to borrow a lot of money.  My alma mater offered me a scholarship, which I less-than-cheerfully accepted because I didn't want to take on a large debt for an undergraduate humanities degree.  

Turned out my 4th-choice school was a great fit.  Today I am a VERY loyal alumnus and donate what I can, because I truly appreciate that my college made it financially possible for me to attend.

I ended up borrowing enough for grad school to have paid for a pretty nice house.  That was ok because (in those days, at least) the graduate degree had enough earning power to justify the debt.  I think borrowing for an undergrad education is rarely a good idea if there is an alternative.  Just one man's opinion...

57special posted:

I think Middlebury is building a new ball field. My son fell in love with the workout facilities there.

Middlebury's current field might be the worst in NESCAC.  Really showed poorly when compared to other sports facilities at Middlebury (which were all very impressive for a D3 school).  Will be a good thing for the school to get a new field.

AD2018 posted:

57special posted:

I think Middlebury is building a new ball field. My son fell in love with the workout facilities there.

Middlebury's current field might be the worst in NESCAC.  Really showed poorly when compared to other sports facilities at Middlebury (which were all very impressive for a D3 school).  Will be a good thing for the school to get a new field.

Yeah, the coach told my son the field would likely be all turf by the time he got there.

tequila posted:

 

Yeah, the coach told my son the field would likely be all turf by the time he got there.

I wish I got a dollar every time I heard a college coach say  that in our recruiting travels.   The "new turf field" and the "locker room remodel with a large flat-screen" were the most often repeated sales pitch by coaches, and became a running joke with my son.     

fenwaysouth posted:

tequila posted:

 

Yeah, the coach told my son the field would likely be all turf by the time he got there.

I wish I got a dollar every time I heard a college coach say  that in our recruiting travels.   The "new turf field" and the "locker room remodel with a large flat-screen" were the most often repeated sales pitch by coaches, and became a running joke with my son.     

And that might very well be the case here too fenway, though I can't see a whole lot of reason why a coach would give false promises to a kid considering attending a school 1400 miles away that costs $70K/yr and can't give any academic money. For my son anyway, a new field is not the straw that breaks the camel's back.

AD2018 posted:

57special posted:

I think Middlebury is building a new ball field. My son fell in love with the workout facilities there.

Middlebury's current field might be the worst in NESCAC.  Really showed poorly when compared to other sports facilities at Middlebury (which were all very impressive for a D3 school).  Will be a good thing for the school to get a new field.

Thought the same. HC Leonard was detailed in the process he's going through for support and funding for the new field.  They'll now replace the current field (there were thoughts of moving it closer to field house and opposite side of current location).  AS of early June, Leonard was further in the process for the new field.  He has support from Middlebury leadership and funding sources.  I'll update when I hear more. 2018 shows up in Sept. 

tequila posted: 

And that might very well be the case here too fenway, though I can't see a whole lot of reason why a coach would give false promises to a kid considering attending a school 1400 miles away that costs $70K/yr and can't give any academic money. For my son anyway, a new field is not the straw that breaks the camel's back.

So, I wouldn't necessarily call it a "false promise" aka a little white lie...I'd call it a recruiting coach sales embellishment.  Lets' face it most kids dig the swag.   I get it, I was 18 years old once.  I was over the moon when my college tennis coach got us new sneakers every month and an endless supply of gut strings which were incredibly expensive in the day.   I think most 18 year old kids respond well to that swag factor.  Your son (like my son) see through that very quickly, and probably was more interested in meeting the Dean of the college than the head baseball coach. 

Great info on this thread. Thanks, everyone!

tequila posted:

fenwaysouth posted:

tequila posted:

 

Yeah, the coach told my son the field would likely be all turf by the time he got there.

I wish I got a dollar every time I heard a college coach say  that in our recruiting travels.   The "new turf field" and the "locker room remodel with a large flat-screen" were the most often repeated sales pitch by coaches, and became a running joke with my son.     

For my son anyway, a new field is not the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Mine is the fact that the school my son chose literally has two women's toilets. The all turf field is great, but what's a mom to do????

Wow. 2?  Hmmm. Isn't there a law about equal opportunity?

A couple notes to supplement Tequila's report.  Tufts field is adequate.  Old but well maintained dugouts and field. A relatively new athletic facility that's just for athletes, something I gather is unusual for a D3 school.

Wesleyan's field is smack in the middle of campus. Buildings with great views of the field run down the right field line and the left field line is right next to a knoll that's a great place to watch a game.  Because of this setting, Wesleyan easily leads the NESCAC  in attendance.  It's impossible to walk anywhere on campus during a game without walking right past the action.  I exaggerate only a little.  In my opinion a very cool setting but some of the scene is probably not to everyone's liking. Right field and center field share turf with the football field.  Wes' outfield fence is temporary, as is the backstop. They put up a fake brick backstop with poles and netting that looks like the real deal but the bricks are plastic. NO dugouts, just long benches. When we visited a couple summers ago the campus was deserted but many of the buildings were unlocked.  Kind of eerie.  Wasn't sure zombies weren't right around the corner.  Walked onto the field and it was obvious it hadn't been touched since the end of the season.  The day we were there, home plate was literally broken in half, with one of the halves completely gone, and the other half all warped and bent like some piece of abstract baseball art.  I presume that academically the experience at Wesleyan is more whole, and that the classrooms have full white boards, not shattered ones that are torn half off the walls.

My 2017 played a series at Wesleyan this past spring and said it was his favorite road trip.  Lots of fans, many of whom were well lubricated young alums who didn't mind kibbitzing with the visiting team members, and just a very fun atmosphere on game day.  Also the coach seems to be an interesting, bookish kind of guy, and has even written a book or two.  Polar opposite of the Tufts coach who, as has been noted here many many times, is very old school.

Tufts, like Middlebury, is looking to build a new field soon.   Plans have been approved and fundraising is underway.   Needless to say a turf field in that climate would be great. 

Beautiful plan

Smoke, my son also played at Wesleyan this past season.  The common thought among the players was that the field was cool to visit, but they wouldn't like it if that was their home field.