Skip to main content

31 replies

Who really strikes out who?

SLIDER24SLIDER2410+ posts
I proposed this question to my son. Now I thought I'd see what every body else has to say about it.

Who strikes out who?
Does the Pitcher strike out (K) the Batter or does the Batter Strike out his self?

Both have a job to do, and If both are doing theirs then it's a matter of who makes the first mistake.
I feel that the batter actually strikes out his self. Primarily by giving up, not staying focused and aggressive and not fighting off the close pitches until the pitcher makes the first mistake and puts the ball where he (the batter) wants it.
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
First lets eliminate this "batter giving up" stuff--- if that is happening they are not playing for me

Accepting that the batter does not give up I have to tip my cap to the pitcher when a batter strikes out--- he beat my guy that time-- we will get him next time.

Does the pitcher get credit for the home run when he makes a mistake and grooves one to my batter? I dont think so


Baseball is a chess match-- sometimes you win and sometimes you get outmanuevered

TRhit
O Orlando1,000+ posts
Slider, I think that can be a very good question to ask a player, as a learning tool...to start his analysis of how he's approaching at bats (or hitters if he's a pitcher).

In any given at bat, the answer would, of course, depend on the two players involved....their skills, attitudes, mindset, experience, as well as the game situation, the strike zone being called, whether this was the batter's first AB against that pitcher, what he had seen of the pitches before, etc. But all that is food for discussion.

Good question! How did your son answer?

---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:

Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
Last edited {1}
B BBWatcher100+ posts
Slider24, I think this is an outstanding question and a question that each individual player needs to ask internally when they are either going up to bat or going out on the mound!!

Who OWNS, Who!!! Who has Game!! Who knows they can!! The question, if it is answered correctly, I feel puts the player closer to being successful at the next level!!

The mental part of the game is one of the most important aspects I feel!! When a player can answer your question, he is ready to play the game!!! Again, Outstanding question!!!
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
This is a really good question, I had to think about it for a few minutes. As far as I am concerned, it is the pitcher's job to get the batter out (preferable through strike outs) and the batter's job to hit the ball. Pitcher's make mistakes, batter's make mistakes. I think it is a 50/50 situation. You never know what is going to happen, that's why we love the game!
ChicksDigTheLongBallChicksDigTheLongBall500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by FLADAD:
Orlando,

It is a good question but I want to throw in another aspect, the catcher. My son's favorite catcher is someone your very familar with.

A smart, game savy catcher can really make a pitcher look good.

"I scream the same whether its a Great White or a piece of seaweed"

You are so correct! It also works in reverse, a bad catcher can make a good pitcher look bad!
BTW, loved your signature, sounds like me, country boy at the beach. Big Grin

Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!
RacabRacab1,000+ posts
Examples:
1. Full count and pitcher throw a perfect change up, and batter swing and strikeout. (Pitcher got the credit)

2. Full count and pitcher throw a fastball down the middle and batter swing and miss. ( Batter strikeout him self)

"Peace is, the respect for the other people's rights".
Benito Juarez
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
You are not going to strike everyone at higher levels. You had better learn to make them hit your pitch. I would rather have 5k's and 15 grounders than the other way around. There are several reason for this. Quicker games, defense involvement, save the arm(lower pitch counts), longer outings(saving the bullpen). When pitchers go to the minors, the first thing they learn is that you ain't gonna k everyone like you did in hs.

quote:
The pitcher did his job as well, but now the pitcher relies on his defence. That brings up several more points for discussion.

With all due respect. That is the kind of statement that has young kids developing the cb instead of the fb so that the coach doesn't have to worry about the dfense making plays. They want to rely on pitchers to get everyone out to hold down errors. Though that may be good for the team and the win, it is not good for player development. Both fielders and pitchers. Most of the young cb guys in LL are no longer even pitching at hs. I also see this out of hs coaches. HS coaches calling every pitch(even though they don't have a scouting report), and nibbling pitchers into high pitch counts trying to get k's instead of letting the defense make some plays. That is how hs players get 140 pitch games.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
O Orlando1,000+ posts
FLADAD, don't think it didn't cross my mind, but I figured the next post would be from H3 bustin' my chops for being all partisan (again)! Wink By the way, glad to see you posting...where ya been?

Big's right, it's so easy to get hung up on the K. A hundred years ago, when I was coaching, I used to ask the pitchers 'how many pitches in a perfect inning?. Scary how many said 9, even into hs ball. Reminds me of Sandy Koufax saying 'I didn't become a good pitcher until I stopped trying to make them miss the ball, and started trying to make them hit it'.

This question can take your player's thinking down so many paths -- like which is the better AB: getting fooled on a quality changeup for the K, or swinging at a bad pitch for a weak IF grounder?

It all goes to educating his approach to the plate, and guiding him to develop a plan for his AB.

---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:

Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
H HiHardHeat1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Orlando:
...I figured the next post would be from H3 bustin' my chops for being all partisan (again)!

duel Orlando ... Next, you'll be telling us that the catcher calls the game.... geez.

Seriously ... It's a mix, and I think people get hung up on K's too much. I'd rather see a 5-6 pitch inning with easy grounders than a guy throw 14-15 pitches and end the inning with 3 K's.

And I've never seen a good pitcher in a game who didn't have a good catcher.
Last edited {1}
RacabRacab1,000+ posts
It is not a rule that say what to do at each count, because will depends on the kind of pitcher, who is hitting, who is on deck, the situation of the game, the baseball's level, etc...
But in general, first pitch got it be strike ( no necessarely a FB), but if you know the hitter is a free swinger, may be a pitch that looks like strike and sink (like Change up) will be great.
In level count (1-1, 2-2) make the hitter swing at your pitch. ( I love to use a good located FB) , because most of the hitters will think breaking pitch in this situation.
Up in the count (0-2, 1-2,) your pitch is out of the strike zone, and setting for your next pitch. ( example: In this count you throw a high fastball, if the hitter doesn't swing, the next pitch could be a CB for strike starting at the same high) If your slider is better than your CB, then the set up pitch could be a high and in FB, to throw the slider in the next pitch)
Full count: The pitch will depends on your ability to throw breaking pitch for strike, who is the batter, is the first base empty, etc..
At LL level will be a FB down the middle, at higher levels could be FB to the corner, or CB, or Change up......or else.

"Peace is, the respect for the other people's rights".
Benito Juarez

Last edited {1}
A AParent1,000+ posts
You really don't think every strike out was diligently planned by the pitcher.

Every pitcher has gotten lucky at some point in time - he has messed up a pitch - and then by some fluke the batter swings and misses. (of course his parents will firmly believe it was planned that way)

Other times he can put the perfect pitch across the plate exactly where he wants it - and a sub off the bench (with a .000 avg.) pulls off the only hit of his life (with his eyes closed no less)

If a kid strikes out reaching, it does not matter how good or bad the pitcher is - he is causing himself to strike out.

What it boils down to is exactly what Recab said: sometimes the pitcher strikes the batter out and sometimes the batter strikes himself out.
Last edited {1}
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
Agree with RIPKENFAN here. Pitchers do some times get lucky and a batter chases a bad pitch by accident. BUT, a good pitcher will set the batter up and get him to chase a pitch well out of the zone. Sometimes outside, sometimes up in the eyes. It is NOT entirely the batter striking himself out.
Last edited {1}
O Orlando1,000+ posts
Luck, skill, reaching for a personal sucker pitch, late movement...tons of variables (unless, of course, we had that much-discussed computer program, eh, its? Wink)

And the interpretation of same will vary by whether your offspring is the pitcher or the batter. Razz

But it's an excellent question to get your player thinking. Wonder how many of us will be asking our player the question over the next few days?


And H3, nothing warms my heart like hearing you praise catchers.... party

---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:

Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
Last edited {1}
dadchs20dadchs20100+ posts
Great thread. Actually I think Sandy Kofax once said that he became a better pitcher when he tried to make them hit the ball, rather than trying to make them miss it. Who strikes out who? Batter vs. Pitcher, i think is a test of wills. Both are trying to accomplish something, and someone will succeed and someone will fail. After all a batter will fail 7 out of 10 times and still hit .300 and be successful. Pitcher can make one mistake and it is all over. Anyway, that is what makes baseball such a great game. You have to get 27 outs, no time limit. As far as the pitcher goes, it really doesn't matter how he gets those 27 outs, first team that does wins.
O Orlando1,000+ posts
I looked it up (which I probably should have done to begin with, but we're all saying the same thing):

I became a good pitcher when I stopped trying to make them miss the ball and started trying to make them hit it.

...at least per Sandy Koufax quotes on brainyquote

H3, if there were no pitchers, the catcher would be busy soft-tossing to the batter to get the game started! biglaugh

---------------------------------
From 'Nice Guys Finish Last' by Leo Durocher:

Baseball lives at the center of a never-flagging whirl of irreconcilable opinions.
H HiHardHeat1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Orlando:
H3, if there were no pitchers, the catcher would be busy soft-tossing to the batter to get the game started! biglaugh

That would kinda mess up the significance of batting averages ... let's just put it on a tee and let the pitcher/catcher go play catch. Think of what that would do to all the "rotational" guys. Now the hitting coach is down to a single word as a hitting clue .. no "keep a level bat and get a piece of it.." instead it becomes "NOW"... (Bill Engval)
Last edited {1}
A AParent1,000+ posts
Ripkenfan

Sorry, I did not express myself quite clearly. I was talking about a kid who HABITUALLY reaches, not one who is surprised by a pitch.

I agree with you - when a pitcher can surprise a hitter - the pitcher is getting the batter out. (although even if he is surprised - there is a limit to how far he should be reaching out of the zone)

However, when a batter has a bad habit of reaching due to impatience then he is getting himself out.

Hope I cleared that up.
Last edited {1}

Add Reply

Post
.

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×