Who really wants it?

Very good post/topic. I think the answer is based on age. Up through 6th or 7th grade my son’s would put in a good amount of effort to get good grades in school. In that case I was the co-pilot.

He always loved playing ball and really didn’t have to work too hard but I made sure he was throwing, getting grounders, cages etc. I was more the director if not the pilot.

In 8th grade he took upon himself to start working at the game much more seriously. He also was able to see the results of the work – he liked what he saw. He is definitely pushing himself (and subsequently me) to get out and throw, hit, etc.

The flip side is he is now more in teenage mode and school work is less of a priority to him. So I haven’t been able to give up my wings – I’m just a different type of pilot. School work will always come 1st. He will be a HS frosh this year and the grades count for college!!!!!

To answer your list (just for the fun of it)

1Does your son ask to go hit. – All the time
2. Do you tell him he needs to hit. – I tell him he needs rest when appropriate
3. Does your son ask to throw. - All the time
4. Do you tell him he needs to throw. - I tell him he needs rest when appropriate
5. Does your son tell you he needs to work out. - Most of the time
6. Do you tell him he needs to work out. – He will get lazy every once and a while and I just point out that he should never break commitments HE HAS MADE
7. Does your son have a passion for the game. YES….I love it also

Coach May,
I hear some frustration in your post.
I have a confession to make,we have had to tell my son he needs to go throw, we have had to tell our son to go work out (still do). We have also had to tell our son when we expected him home, and have even asked if his homework was completed, and lights out a certain time on the weekdays, etc. We were the pilots back then, no co-pilot stuff here.
My son has always been passionate about baseball, my son loves baseball. I can count on one hand how many times over the years he missed a practice or a game.
I also confess that, my son would be the first one out the door to be with his friends or his girlfriend. There were days when he had to go workout, or go to practice when I am sure he would have rather been doing something else. He very rarely committed to off season conditioning, which was not mandatory. Baseball was and is a big part of his life, but he has other interests as well. He always did and always will. Baseball takes up so much of his life now, I am glad that he enjoyed time off the field when he was younger.

There are many successful atheletes that will tell you that their parents were the driving force that made them succeed at the highest level. There is nothing wrong with that. After all, they all were kids at one time, and kids need guidance and a kick in the butt every once in a while to remind them who they are and what we expect from them. They are after all, just kids.
There are many HS players that are along for the ride, don't eat and breath baseball. I would say they probably do love the game, but not always committed to it as other players their age are.
Most coaches love the kid that is willing to give up girlfriends or friday night outings to be at the field. But I don't think that is normal for HS players. So you need to compromise and understand that they are all different and can't and won't be like him. Many don't have to live and breath the game to succeed.
If they are not living up to their team obligations that is a whole different story. If workouts and practice are mandatory, then no excuses from them or the parents why they didn't show up.
Catcher09,
A very important thing is teaching our kids about commitments and how to keep them.
As a teacher, I always found that the parents who made the most excuses for their children were the ones who never taught them about committments.

TPM your post really hits home with me...my son
is passionate about the game never misses practice or games, but also is the first out
the door to go fishing with friends or shoot
a game of pool or go to his girlfriends. since
baseball and sports has consumed our life for
the last dozen years I truly value the times
my son spends outside of baseball. The fishing hole, the girlfriend, the friends, these are the
things that give a balance to his life. These
are some of the greatest times of his life...

I'm with TPM and hotcorner. My sentiments exactly. Sometimes we really need to view the world as our kids see it and not with a skewed vision of what we think they need to see it as. I honestly can't say that I have seen a kid as dedicated to the sport as my son, yet I find myself refraining from saying things like "You need to throw today." It took a while to see that after all these years he has that figured out. He's found a pretty healthy balance and I'm not going to intrude on that if I can help it.

Wow, did this post come at an interesting point in my life......Dealing with a first year slump (pitching) and a 16yo's need for independence and dealing with those emotional highs/lows on a daily basis, I have been asking this same question of myself, my husband and of our son.........

Right now, if I had to answer this it would be:

It is my son's passion that is supported 100% by his parents, but when there is a bump in the road then it will hopefully be us, his parents, that have and will be the ones that have to be there to listen/watch and then help guide our son(s). I know my son doesn't have the maturity or the life experience yet to see through most of lifes layers. He is still in that "live for today" mode and doesn't understand that today is still evolving, yesterday is past and can't be changed but tomorrow is a clean slate and he can direct himself in a manner to make tomorrow the yesterday he wished he had.

I am the Pilot to my son in helping him in those things that he has yet to experience or yet to grasp.

We are both Co-pilots in those things that we seem to learn together.

He is the pilot for those things he has total control over, the things/situations he has the maturity/experience to handle.

We are both on autopilot on those things neither one of us have a clue about.

And he has a "drone" flying for those things he chooses for me not to know about

Looking back at it, my last graduated in 1999, I can safely say I was a co-pilot--my guys wanted it, 2 sons and a stepson, and they got it--they all played college baseball at various levels.

They all worked out on their own--no urging
The speedster in the group worked out with guys on the track team--his own idea
The hitters went to the cage on their own
The pitcher was known to sleep in uniform prior to games as a LL'er.

Bottom Line: no urging--no coaxing--lots of baseball discussion--just a strong desire on their part to make it to college baseball AND THEY DID

We can also take this a bit further with our team-- we can see the fire in the eyes of certain players--they ask for more BP--some pitchers ask for ten minutes in the pen under the eyes of our coaches to see what they feel is a problem in their delivery--the little things that tell us they want it and want it bad-- the player who askes for 5 more gournballs in pregame warmups--etc etc

Let me give you an example of what I mean by fire;
Last fall we are in the WWBA event and we have a pitcher fly in Friday nite, he couldnt get out of school early, and in the car heading to the hotel we ask him if he wanted to pitch Saturday or Sunday's game-- he asked to go Sunday so he could meet with the guys and and spend time with his catcher as well as throw a light pen--he pitched Sunday and threw 4 great innings--he goes to University of Michigan in the Fall on a baseball scholarship.

This what I see as a fire-- he knows what he wants and how to go about it in the correct manner

It is more than just a love of the game it is a fire thats burns deep--- we cannot make it happen--it is there and simply needs to be nurtured

Coach May is 100% right......If you gotta make 'em practice, they really don't want it enough......The parents making 'em practice want it, but, so what?

There are many, many, parents who don't see the reality in the lack of intent in their kids......Way too many....That's not frustration, just the truth....

TR,
Lots of kids make it to college with or without
being reminded about doing things when they were younger.
Parents shouldn't panic when they see the little boy who slept in his uniform the night before a game suddenly want to be out with his friends the night before a big game. It's the natural process of growing up and trying to find balance within their lives. They think their talented son doesn't care about the game anymore, but that is not true. We used to think that, why doesn't he want to spend more time on the field? Why does he want to work instead of being out there conditioning? So now the pilots became the copilots, helping him and us to see that he was growing up and regardless of what we wanted, he would be the one in the end to do what he had to do to get to the next level. And he did it.
My son isn't fully his own pilot yet, our place has been taken over by those at school who want to help him to succeed. As mature and responsible as he is, he still needs the guidance of those who know what it takes to take that passion and turn it into success, onor off the field.

There are times to help motivate and times to back off. Kids aren't born with great work ethic. They have to learn it.

As they get older, if THEY want to play the game at a high level, they will seldom need that nudge.

If constant pushing is required, the parents need to step back and evaluate.

There were periods when mine was younger that I encouraged the practice. Most of the time he was self-motivated. Now he is grateful that I helped him establish a work ethic. There are times when he took a well deserved and needed break.

For the past several years, it has been him dragging me out in the heat to get extra reps in.

They are kids. Sometimes they need parental guidance. But as CM pointed out, over the long haul it needs to be the player's desire driving. Not the parent's.

Great discussion here. I have really enjoyed hearing how other people feel about this. I really think that kids that have a fire to be the best they can be at something and really love it will be the driving force behind it. At the same time I understand that there will be times where they will want to do something else. Go fishing ride a four wheeler or go out with a girlfriend or the boys. That is only normal and is something they need to do. To me TPM and Blue Dog are both right on here. And TR as usual hit the nail on the head. Kids that have that fire, that deep burning desire inside of them to be good at what they love are special. TPM my only frustration comes from parents that are the driving force and the kid is only along for the ride. The same parents that constantly provide excuses for their kids while yours is working at the game. And yes there are kids that are very talented that dont have to work as hard at the game as others. These kids will succeed to a certain point. But there will come a time when everyone will be very talented. And at that point and time their work ethic and love of the game will be x factor that will determine who succeeds.

I think the main thing in our experience of raising two boys was to help them understand at a young age that passion for something, alone, isn't enough. Rather, that it's the translation of that passion into the hard work of dedication that leads to successful results.

Each boy chose his own passion: one, music; the other, baseball. Fortunately, each listened, understood, and took the crucial step of making the "translation" into persistent effort. Today, each seems to be living his dream; but, only because they made it happen with the effort.

A great topic, Coach May. Thanks for raising it.

Prepster Im glad you came on here to post. I think it is only fitting that you decided to post on this topic. I have never met you in person or your son. But I have watched him pitch several times for the Tarheels. I dont know your son personally. But from the way he approaches the game ( in the bullpen ) ( before the game ) ( during the game when he is not pitching ) ( and when he is on the hill ) he has a passion for the game. He looks and plays and acts like there is no place else he would rather be. Your son does not have overpowering stuff but he can flat out pitch. (1st Team All ACC). This is on a staff with guys that were high draft picks and extremely talented. I can tell that he has one helluva work ethic and desire to be the best he can be. Those are the kids that every coach wants not only to coach but to just be around. Your son will only continue to get better and at the end of the day will know that he got all out of baseball he could. He will have no regrets. I hope he makes it to the highest level. But one things for sure he WILL make it to the highest level possible for his ability. Isnt that all we can ask of anyone?

Coach May, a very good topic. I have to side with TPM, Itsagreatgame and some others. You can have a good work ethic and still need to be reminded to “get off your backside” ever now and then. Someone also posted that age makes a difference and I agree. As they mature they see that effort does make a difference. Coach May, while I never TOLD my son to do any of those things on your list, I did explain that IF he wanted to succeed they needed to be done. To me that is quite different. I might add that having another player, teammate, coach, or instructor that is also a good workout partner, not Mom or Dad, does make practicing and learning much more enjoyable.
Fungo

Fungo I agree with you and TPM and the others as well. Age makes a difference and sometimes kids need only to see a little sucess in what they are going to start a fire. Every kid needs a little prodding once in awhile. No argument here. All good points.

Coach May

We have been playing phone tag

I am here now

800-782-3672

Give me a call

Tom Rizzi

Great discussion. As parents, we can't get so caught up in our sons' successes to realize there is a time to "pull the plug." Best thing we ever did was allowing him to "just be a kid" the summer after 8th grade. After 5 years of rec and travel ball, I sensed it was the right thing to do. He came back in 9th grade after 9 months off and had a great year--all because his mind was in it.
Now, going into the summer before his senior year, he is obsessesed with getting bigger, stronger, faster, throwing harder, fielding better, and hitting farther with more consistency. As an earlier poster said, it is these "driven kids" that experience success and other parents are jealous of. I consider myself one of the fortunate parents that has a self-motivated son. Now, if I could only get him to mow the lawn. Sigh!.
JT

Coach may,
I understand now what you were trying to say. Gentle prodding has been part of the growing process here. But if we had to "make" him do anything as Blue Dog suggests, he probably wasn't really that interested in succeeding on his own in the first place.
That would have been our problem not his
I guess that parents need to realize where the fine line exists between what they want and what we want. I have seen that happen all too many times.

Interesting topic.
I guess everyone has a different take on it to some extent.

For my wife and I - we never told our kids that they had to do anything with baseball. We demand a bunch of other things - lol. But never anything to do with baseball. If they didnt want to practice or work out - so be it.

For whatever reasons - they seem to have learned pretty quickly that talent - for most people - will only take you so far. After some point - you begin playing against peers who have both talent - and work ethic.

If you are missing either of those traits - you get your butt consistently kicked at some point IMO.

My '05 just graduated last month and to be honest in the past 4 years of high school baseball, he has never missed a game or practice.

For the past 4 years he has played HS, travel, Legion, Fall, showcases, Camps, Jr Olympics, been from Massachsetts to Florida and just about every State in between playing ball, so when he wants to take his girlfriend to the movies instead of hitting, I don't have a problem with that. There is a fine line and you don't want to burn them out, every kid needs to do other things as well.

Now do I have to get on his butt every now and then to do some things? Yep, he's 17 and if I did not have to get on his butt every now and then, I'd be worried about him .

Got his front tooth knocked out playing legion ball a couple of years ago, was scheduled to go to a showcase in two weeks. First words out of his mouth " Dad,I am still going to that showcase, tooth or no tooth" Well the doc put the tooth back in, made him a protective mouthpiece to wear at the showcase and knock on wood he still has the tooth today.

CV

Everyone who has posted has spoken with eloquence on this topic. I'd like to add our family's own recent experience.

My son has always shown focus and hustle when it came to baseball. (Not necessarily in all other areas of life!) Always first to practice, always working hard on the field, Mr. Hustle, etc. Like all other families on this board, I remember him passing on invitations to go with other families on spring break or summer vacations because of baseball. I supported his decisions about those "sacrifices" then and now.

This spring (junior year) things were a little different because he acquired a girlfriend during the winter. In early June, he asked his coach if he could miss one game of a summer league tournament to go on a Saturday outing with her family. I think coach probably told him to do what he thought he needed to do, or something to that effect.

Result: Dillon went on the outing and returned later that day during the next game of the tournament. He discovered that coach was pretty upset with him for choosing to miss a game (first game he has ever missed at any level). Here's a boy who has total respect for and great communication with his coach, who really didn't understand why coach was so upset. In my heart I sided with the coach.

My son was confused that the coach was angry with him and benched him for the next game when he thought he had done the right thing in checking in advance. I think he's learned some lessons about implicit messages and just what level of dedication he needs to maintain if he's going to make it to the next level.

Here's a coach who has spent a LOT of time filling out college recommendations for his strongest player, and I think that he expected Dillon to realize on his own that his place was on the diamond, not at the lake.

I know that my son "really wants it," but I know he now also really wants a social life. At 17 I wasn't nearly as focused on my future as he has to be. It's ironic that so many important future goals ride on the decision making skills of an adolescent.

This thread hits home with me as I've always worried about my son and his baseball passion. Should I have made him NOT do some of these things? I can tell you that I've NEVER had to tell him to go to practice or a game. He's NEVER put anything else before baseball. Not his girlfriend, not a school dance, not sleep, nothing. His HS team had optional off-season workouts this past fall and winter. They met at 5:30 in the morning, meaning he had to get up at 5:00. He missed one of these. He set his own alarm clock and got himself up. His coach included in a reference letter that he has always been the first one at practices and the last one to leave. He's gotten to do other things in his life - but they've always come after baseball. This was always his choice.

If he can't play ball professionally one day, he wants to coach at the college level. Is he consumed - absolutely. Is it a healthy obsession? I don't know. Will he have regrets one day about putting it first? I hope not. The only thing I do know is that he's loved it since he touched a baseball, it's been his fire - not mine, and that I've been there to offer support, transportation, and money.

I hope I can have this discussion in twenty years with my son. It will be an interesting one to say the least and I pray that he will remember every minute with no regrets. As always, time will tell.

I don't have a son but my girl has set new goals. They are:

1. Get 150 swings in each day.
2. Field 100 balls at shortstop.
3. Throw 50 pitches in a bullpen and then do a simulated 3 inning game.

This after a very rough weekend two weeks ago. As of today she has asked to go each day. My girl turned 12 at the end of April. Currently, we are hitting off a machine at the same speed that the varsity team practices at. I'm very proud of her. Please note, the day that she doesn't want to, I'm not saying a word.

Even I agree with most post here, would be great to know at what age all this change in attitude happened. Some needs to be push to develop baseball skills the same way as with school development skills, if you don’t follow up they will mess up. Like other posters mention look like maturity have to do a lot with it, but with be nice to find out at what age this transformation occurs.

strikeu

I think the age tramsformation happens at different times for different kids

It all depends on the young man

My son and I returned last night from a four day tournament wher the boys played a lot of baseball. After a quick dip in the pool he wanted to have a catch so he could practice a new pitch he is learning. I guess he does really want this.

Strikeu,
I agree with TRHit..all boys are different and change at different times and in different ways. I have seen some pretty good players decide to hang it up at 13-14 and I’ve seen some average players become focused on baseball as late as 16-17. One thing we can be sure of...they will change as they mature.
While my son has played baseball continually from the time he was 4 years old things changes as he matured. He was the normal kid at 7-10, playing recreational ball and doing all kind of kid things that kids do. He began focusing more on baseball at about 11-12 and then hit a flat again at about 14-15 as the hormones kicked in with girls, clothes, music, video games, school activities, and such. At 21 he is still under the “hormone influence’ but he has seemed to be able to focus more on baseball since he was about 16-17.
Fungo

I am 14 years old and love baseball. My father has been a big part of it asking me if i want to play catch or take fielding practice or BP and i say YES!! in a heart beat. i ask him sometimes to if he wants to do those things cause i want to get better so i can reach my goal of playin in the MLB. He yells at me when i do something stupid on the field or i dont charge a ball when i should have but no more than an inning later and he tells me to keep my head up and forget about it. he is the biggest part of my baseball success and it is because he pushes me and i thank him for that.