Why Baseball is declining in popularity

I don't believe baseball is declining in popularity. What is declining is youth participation due to other options. It doesn't mean the kids don't become fans. A lot of kids don't play football as kids and become fans. National viewing ESPN, Fox, Tbs may be down. But regional viewing is up. Nine baseball teams are their regions top viewed show per evening. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ma...h-team/#306fca76171f

1) Many have turned to X games sports their parents don't understand and can't critique.

2) Most haven't. The fat lazy kids have. They don't have to be teased anymore. They can play video games instead.

3/4) Things are fine the way the are. Life moves on and evolves.

5) No, it's at the bottom with Bobby Sherman's "Julie Do You Love Me" and the 1910 Fruit Gum Company's "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy." Actually it's in the same death march as "If" by Bread and "Color My World" by Chicago.

At this time and age of technology and video games along with maybe some general fear for danger just outside the front door, it seems to me these things are influencing the newer generations to not be as interested (as a whole) in outdoor activities as previous generations.  To get them back (and it's NOT an easy task unless everyone else is doing it) would be to get them away from their large screen TV's, x-boxes, video game consoles, cell phones, etc. so the they might engage more in face to face contact with pier groups.  Being as "connected" to technology as we've become, it's having a profound effect on people and their relationships and recreational activities.  IMHO

Information that we are getting shows that of the major sports baseball is declining the least.  Participation in all the major sports is declining some. In some ways and in some areas Baseball is actually growing at a good rate.

Unless football does something significant, I believe it won't be around in the future.  May be beyond my lifetime but head injuries and arthritic conditions will cause its demise.

RedFishFool posted:

Unless football does something significant, I believe it won't be around in the future.  May be beyond my lifetime but head injuries and arthritic conditions will cause its demise.

Maybe better and longer half time shows would help . . . and maybe more Superbowl like commercials during the regular season???  

For me sports is becomming unwatchable on tv. The ginormous tv contracts require way too many commercials.   Too much down time.  

Golfman25 posted:

For me sports is becomming unwatchable on tv. The ginormous tv contracts require way too many commercials.   Too much down time.  

What do you mean?  I love coming back from a commercial break, to a punting situation, and then going back into a commercial break once the punt is fair caught. 

I can't get enough of the one where the construction workers are trying to figure out what is the word on the cow's sandwich board.  Keeps me on the edge of my sofa.

RedFishFool posted:

Unless football does something significant, I believe it won't be around in the future.  May be beyond my lifetime but head injuries and arthritic conditions will cause its demise.

Bo knows.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/...n-more-head-injuries

Golfman25 posted:

For me sports is becomming unwatchable on tv. The ginormous tv contracts require way too many commercials.   Too much down time.  

I want the part of my life back that I have spent watching replays of "is that a catch?"

Good subject. There are probably numbers that can substantiate that. On the flip side the overall state of baseball is on the rise. International players have an impact to this balance. Kids here have more access to technology than others do. Xgames also is taking a piece of the pie as well. What do parents condone?

Do not know about decline or not...I do know that if you are a youth player these days, your facilities are a lot better than mine were. Coaching, not all, is better as well. There is more access to give you more opportunity. Today's baseball, the specialized sport is about quality not quantity.

You are right Hitting.  The whole deal is light years beyond what I had growing up.  The Ted Williams camp in Connecticut, advertised in the back of Boy's Life Magazine, was a pipe dream for me.  Maybe kids in non lower middle-class blue collar towns had things a little different, but most of my coaches were a slight notch above Buttermaker.  

I can remember having three coaches growing up who weren't total boobs.  My son had one assistant coach and two coaches from other teams who were boobs. Big difference in our experiences.  We both love baseball though.

My son also got to train at the Alabama Sports Medicine Institute, travel around and play ball all summer and fall between Soph. and Jr. years and play at Lakepoint as well as numerous colleges around the Southeastern Conference.   Tell me as a 16 y/o that I would walk out and play on an SEC field, you would have had to hit me with smelling salts before the game.   We just did not have those kinds of opportunities.  Also, getting to play at the next level was harder then.   There was no internet.  No HSbaseballweb.  I still don't know how good players got opportunities where I was from.  Well...not many did.

The Ted Williams Camp in Connecticut...WOW! For me, that's just a dream. He is my guy. My good friend asked me the other day if I thought Ted Williams would hit in today's game.  Lol, I told him he was a savant when it came to hitting and that he could and would hit in any era and relm. He is the greatest hitter that ever played the game. Sorry Mr. Hornsby.

I don't recollect any of the LL coaches in my league having an legit baseball skills. But none of them had kids on the team to give preference. The best players still went on to high school and college ball. The less talented kids didn't. This was when kids had to make LL or play Farms. Everyone in LL could throw, field and swing a fat reasonably well. My team won back to back championships when I was eleven and twelve. We had the coach the players liked the best. We played hard for him.

Why Baseball is declining in popularity

On the surface, I'm not seeing it.  All three of my kids played baseball from an early age all the way to high school.  All three had an opportunity to play in college, only one did.  As a parent, what I saw was an increase in baseball participation from that early age until about 14 years including travel baseball.  There was a far greater demand for fields and good coaching than supply in my area.  We had record number of kids wanting to play in the Fall as well, and the recreational and travel teams were playing greater numbers of Fall games and teams across the region.  So, I don't see declining youth participation numbers in my area.  Baseball is still big.

Serious showcase teams and tournaments also seem to be increasing in popularity and numbers in my area.  College baseball fandom is also pretty big.  If you head to a major conference game (ie...ACC) there are many people there.  The College World Series is a big deal where I live and the many people I touch in my job are interested in the CWS.  Again, I'm not seeing the interest level down in college baseball.

Professional baseball is where this may have been intended, but I understand MLB just had a record setting year based on attendance.  I don't know about viewership across the various markets.

It seems to me young kids have a lot of choices with other sports that I did not have access to when I was young including soccer and lacrosse.  But, it seems to me that today's young kids continue to play baseball but they also play another sport.  I gave up baseball at 14 for Darwinian purposes but still love the game.  I taught my kids how to play and they did the rest. It seems to me that I'm not alone in that baseball is still loved by many people today including young people that are not yet at the point in their lives when they have to choose between a sport they love and a sport they are much better at. 

I'm not convinced baseball is declining in popularity based on youth participation and revenue growth at the professional levels. 

Ted Williams was indeed something special.  He wanted to be the best hitter ever, and may have reached his goal.  People are still building off of his hitting philosophy.   

It seems to me young kids have a lot of choices with other sports that I did not have access to when I was young including soccer and lacrosse.

I think you may be on to something there, Fenway.  More kids can play soccer in the spring, or LaCrosse.  

Clearly there are new distractions, but there is also a story to be told of baseball's increased popularity. Instead of scanning a box score in the morning paper, kids now carry news and highlights live to the moment on their phones. You can watch multiple games at the same time, follow an entire league through fantasy while watching another game.

Baseball is consumed differently than it used to be... it is played differently? Maybe. Supply and Demand do fluctuate over time. But I always worry thinking one generation is "lazier" than the previous. Is baseball waning? I don't think so. But that doesn't mean its not off its peak.

_______________

Amazon: Going with the Pitch SE

Author of "Going with the Pitch: Adjusting to Baseball, School and Life as a Division I College Athlete" (Second Edition)

Sports participation levels link.

http://www.engagesports.com/bl...tatistics-and-trends

MidAtlanticDad posted:

RedFishFool posted:

Unless football does something significant, I believe it won't be around in the future.  May be beyond my lifetime but head injuries and arthritic conditions will cause its demise.

Bo knows.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/...n-more-head-injuries

His wife (and mother of his kids) is a physician.  My guess is Bo Know's the correct answer when given.......by his wife.

This type thread pops up here from time to time and I am encouraged by PGStaff's comments.

My opinion is that video killed the radio star.  In the 20's, 30's, and 40's, baseball was king because it was in our culture to derive enjoyment from it by listening to it on the radio or by going to the games in person.  IMHO, baseball does not translate well to TV.  Football is the ultimate TV sport, a gladiator sport if you will, and I think that is a large part of its popularity.  People can sugar-coat it all they want but a big part of the allure of football is the spectacle of watching the "big hit." 

I would encourage people to try listening to a baseball game on the radio or over the Internet.  With the right type of announcer, it is an enjoyable experience and you can do other things at the same time.  Rather than watching on TV, go to the game.  Mingle in the crowd, enjoy the sunshine, and be thankful that summer will hopefully always be for baseball. 

Finally, I think baseball is the most easily relatable sport to the masses.  Most people have no idea how basketball works (watch a youth basketball game sometime) and the rules of football are often elusive to ordinary people (your mother or your sister, for example).  Baseball on the other hand, even your 90 year old grandmother can relate.  She knows it comes down to the pitcher and the hitter and what happens next.  A simple game that is almost impossible to master and can be enjoyed by all. 

Very good points, Cleveland.   Baseball is like the 1980s video game.  Easy to understand and get started playing, but tough to master.

Sometimes I get to listen to UA baseball games on the radio.  You do sort of get into the game a bit.  The sounds of the crowd are amplified and highlighted.  You can hear the folks clapping, and shouting and at times the peanut hawker.  The sound of the bat.

 You have to imagine the pitch as the announcer states, "I'm not sure where he missed with that one.  Maybe a little outside?"   Or "Baker winds and he deals.  Curveball catches the inside corner."  And there is more than a little anticipation hearing about a "Well hit ball... going back, back, back."

The TV does kind of sterilize the experience a bit.  Especially as compared to being at the game.  I think most anyone can enjoy going to a game.  Watching on TV, maybe not so much.

sportsdad&fan posted:

Sports participation levels link.

http://www.engagesports.com/bl...tatistics-and-trends

There are 17 sports listed on this article's chart.  A full 11 of them showed a decrease in participation levels.   Baseball certainly did not have the biggest decline (-4.3%) but according to the article did have one.

That cursed LaCross was up almost 30%.

Tackle football down (17.9%) Touch football down (32.4%).  Rugby UP (100%)!  "Hey guys. Let's try it WITHOUT the helmet!"  "Yeah!  Great Idea!  Let's go for it!"

One thing that is noticeable, actually two things.  Both are good signs for baseball.

1.  20 years ago, it was rare to see an indoor baseball/softball facility.  Now there are thousands of them all over the country.

2.  Just in the past decade, the number of baseball complexes being built is at an all time high.  There are new large complexes planned all over the country.

Also, the new commissioner has made growing the game a very important initiative.

Even with factoring in the chronic lack of umpires, there has been a trend of more games than we have umpires to do them.

We still have rec teams, middle school teams, HS teams, training teams, Travel teams, scout teams, tournament teams, legion teams and showcase teams....

The only thing I don't see enough of is sadly........neighborhood pickup games.......     

I help run one of the largest travel baseball leagues in our state if not in the country.  We have seen a recent decline in participation/# of teams  but I believe the teams are simply moving to a tournament only format vs playing a league.  

4 years ago we had 250+ teams in a 30 mile radius (8u-16u).  Now that number is about one hundred.  I believe that there are possibly now even more teams than 4 years ago but they are just playing in tournament only format because of the availability of good competition and enjoyment of the tournament format vs. playing the same local teams over and over again.  Partially also just demographics as family size is down slightly from 20-30 years ago as the boomer effect fades.    

 I also know that the competition for fields for practice and games is also higher than it ever has been before and the municipalities are cashing in.   

As PG said there is an abundance of new private training facilities and fields popping up and i think that's a great indication of interest.  Despite what the soccer (my kids play that too), lacrosse and other sports would like to think, they really aren't replacing baseball anytime soon.  

ClevelandDad posted:

This type thread pops up here from time to time and I am encouraged by PGStaff's comments.

My opinion is that video killed the radio star.  In the 20's, 30's, and 40's, baseball was king because it was in our culture to derive enjoyment from it by listening to it on the radio or by going to the games in person.  IMHO, baseball does not translate well to TV.  Football is the ultimate TV sport, a gladiator sport if you will, and I think that is a large part of its popularity.  People can sugar-coat it all they want but a big part of the allure of football is the spectacle of watching the "big hit." 

I would encourage people to try listening to a baseball game on the radio or over the Internet.  With the right type of announcer, it is an enjoyable experience and you can do other things at the same time.  Rather than watching on TV, go to the game.  Mingle in the crowd, enjoy the sunshine, and be thankful that summer will hopefully always be for baseball. 

Finally, I think baseball is the most easily relatable sport to the masses.  Most people have no idea how basketball works (watch a youth basketball game sometime) and the rules of football are often elusive to ordinary people (your mother or your sister, for example).  Baseball on the other hand, even your 90 year old grandmother can relate.  She knows it comes down to the pitcher and the hitter and what happens next.  A simple game that is almost impossible to master and can be enjoyed by all. 

I have a district memory of listening to baseball on the radio as a kid. Weekend games were on tv. Weekday games were on radio only. I can still picture listening to Red Sox games on the west coast against the Angels. With the technology of the time they sounded as far away as they were. The broadcast sounded like it was being piped down a tunnel.

I remember getting home from school and pacing back and forth in my room as rookie Billy Rohr was pitching a no hitter in his first MLB start against the Yankees. He lost it on a quail with two outs in the ninth.

There probably isn't a poster on the board from this era who didn't go to bed with a radio under his pillow and the ball game on.

There may be less participation with preteen kids. But is participation down at the 13-15yp level or the high school level? I know some school districts have dropped sports. But has a high school ever dropped baseball due to lack of participation outside the inner city? 

Many different levels to the "decline of baseball" question. Furthermore, many sports are on the decline. Maybe the kids playing sports are more serious and that leads the casual player to decide against the work and time involved in playing and practicing a sport. It is much easier to just play that sport on a video game for fun than to practice every day only to sit the bench behind more serious talented kids who practice their craft before and after the official practice with the coach...

Also, "Listen to the Rhythm of the Fallng Rain" can be heard in elevators on the way to or from the dentists office. That excludes it from being the greatest pop song ever. 

Teaching Elder posted:

sportsdad&fan posted:

Sports participation levels link.

http://www.engagesports.com/bl...tatistics-and-trends

There are 17 sports listed on this article's chart.  A full 11 of them showed a decrease in participation levels.   Baseball certainly did not have the biggest decline (-4.3%) but according to the article did have one.

That cursed LaCross was up almost 30%.

Tackle football down (17.9%) Touch football down (32.4%).  Rugby UP (100%)!  "Hey guys. Let's try it WITHOUT the helmet!"  "Yeah!  Great Idea!  Let's go for it!"

Lacrosse is speed, strength, hitting and action. Go figure it's gaining popularity. My son said if lacrosse was played in the fall he would have played over soccer (his best sport).

There are a lot less concussions in rugby than football. Without a helmet the players learn to tackle differently. 

Something I wonder about with watching baseball on TV and one of my pet peaves is the camera angles. I wish the perspective would be more varied than just watching the game behind the pitcher for most of the game....at least it seems like it is. I like to see the whole enchilada of the game and I wonder if that would make a difference in viewer satisfaction, it would mine.  I can watch back to back games with no problem and enjoy it.

I like to see pitching from the side a lot as I like to see the pitching mechanics. Would also like more perspective from the hitter. The change to say a left fielder. I mean it may satisfy mine and others ADD.

I do not believe baseball is declining in popularity.  MLB revenues would seem to suggest otherwise, as would the explosion of travel baseball over the past 15 years -- a phenomenon that, especially at the younger ages, I view as proof positive that the Williamsport approach of 15-20 games per year, all in the spring, just isn't meeting the demand.

I do think there was a time when baseball was the # 1 thing for Americans outside of working.  The National Pastime as it were.  It has been supplanted in that regard by video entertainment in all of its forms -- something that didn't exist 80 years ago that has pretty much taken over the national consciousness.  And given that other sports copied baseball's model of taking a game people played for fun and turning it into a spectator sport with paid players, it's only natural that it not remain the dominant viewing option.  Though it probably still consumes more TV broadcasting hours than every other sport combined.

On other points:  The worst pop song ever was "Run Joey Run" by David Geddes.  Geddes wrote some classics that are still sung today, but that one was some sort of a joke that somehow charted and achieved earworm status in my youth.  Best pop song ever is hard to pick, but "Uptown Funk" is a recent entry in that sweepstakes. 

Ted Williams story:  I was once on a cruise ship maybe 25 years ago, and it turned out that a Cincinnati-area travel agency had sold a lot of rooms on a "cruise with the Reds" theme.  I got to meet Marty Brennaman, Brett Boone, Jim Bowden and Jeff Brantley.    But of course, Sparky Anderson stole the show.  His best yarn (bear in mind this was in the early 1990's) was:  "Somebody asked me if they thought the old players could really compete against today's pitching -- for instance, would Ted Williams hit .400 today?  And I said, 'No, I don't think he could.'  They were flabbergasted.  But I said, 'Hey, you've got to remember, Ted's what?  75 years old now?'"

I like to see pitching from the side a lot as I like to see the pitching mechanics. Would also like more perspective from the hitter. The change to say a left fielder. I mean it may satisfy mine and others ADD.

Wouldn't it be something if you had an umpire's/hitter's view with a knowledgeable ex-pro commenting on the pitch and showing how much movement was on the ball?  Maybe a graph showing where the ball was expected to go, if it was a four seam fastball, vs. where it really went and thus how the hitter missed the ball.  Also a graph demonstrating change of speed showing what a fastball looks like versus the change up you just saw.    Then maybe behind the pitcher views discussing location and telling about how tough it is to throw to a spot.  Really put on the show with explaining a lot of intricacies of the ball game.   

A fan-in-the-stands type of panoramic view might be interesting as well.  Dugout cam would be fun.

Gmnk posted:

Something I wonder about with watching baseball on TV and one of my pet peaves is the camera angles. I wish the perspective would be more varied than just watching the game behind the pitcher for most of the game....at least it seems like it is. I like to see the whole enchilada of the game and I wonder if that would make a difference in viewer satisfaction, it would mine.  I can watch back to back games with no problem and enjoy it.

I like to see pitching from the side a lot as I like to see the pitching mechanics. Would also like more perspective from the hitter. The change to say a left fielder. I mean it may satisfy mine and others ADD.

I like that idea. ESPN has "Megacast" and "Command Center" views of the BCS Championship. With today's huge televisions, a multi-camera broadcast will probably be feasible in the near future.

It seems like high level travel participation has gone up but from a local perspective from someone who has been in the same Little League/School system for the last 19 years here is what I've seen:

2016 grad - had about 20-25 more kids in the little league program when he first started and lots of kids who could really play.  We had a full LL season of 18 games and playoffs, a travel season of 18 games where we had to really cut players to get down to 14 (which was too many) and had a good competitive local travel team for his 9u-11u years (he also played in a more competitive league on Sundays and went to Cooperstown with that team).   By his 12u team those numbers started to dwindle.  We struggled to get 12 kids to just play 12u travel - no need for cuts.  We had a kid visiting his grandparents from CA for the summer who was previously from our town.  He kept showing up to watch - he eventually ended up catching half our games.   That year we cut one of our teams because of numbers and re-drafted those kids into the league.  

His 12u LL season he tried out for our modified middle school team (7/8th graders) - 98 kids tried out.  

2020 grad (my 9th grader) - 25 less kids in the LL.  We had travel for his age group for the summer and struggled to get 10u players (we got 12 by pulling up some 9u players who were in his grade).  We were horrible - 10 of those 12 kids dropped out the following year because their traveling lacrosse team coach told them they could not do both (they since changed that stance).  We did not field a travel program for that age group his 11/12u seasons - he played somewhere else his 12u year.  

His modified tryouts - 35 kids.  

Last year the HS dropped the freshman program (it was the only sport with a freshman team because the demand had been so high).  Less than 10 kids showed up for tryouts and they had not planned on moving kids up from modified (plus budget concerns).  

I'm on the board of the LL - we've done a ton to try to make the game more fun (events, food, raffles, give aways), we've sponsored some kids who may have not have been able to afford it, we've worked entire seasons around the local lax program (to have games on alternate nights for Lax practice), we have the HS coach and varsity run a clinic for the LL and minor league programs - and we still struggle filling out the teams.  

Both programs in our closest neighboring towns report the same issue - we've had discussions with one to combine leagues but we haven't pulled the trigger yet. 

There are simply more things to do now. 40 years ago there were just like 3 sports or so and now there are probably 10-12 sports who draw significant participation and even TV coverage. also there are more non sports Entertainment offers (Video games....).

still Baseball is thriving financially due to the local cable Networks who pay a ton. it is true that Baseball is a Little down in that 15-40 (or whatever that Group is) but that Group is not as dominant as it was 30 years ago as the number of old People is increasing and advertisements have discovered that Group too (People are no longer just waiting for death after Age 50).

regarding youth participation it is several things.

LL numbers are down but at the same time travel is up, so you can't just look at LL numbers. of course that is not the only factor, as the Overall number is still lower even if you add travel and LL but Baseball is still one of the top sports, if not the top Sport.

it is just that Overall sports participation is down (Video games, smart phones, other Hobbies like Music/arts and so on...) and there are more sports, but there aren't really sports that have overtaken Baseball (maybe some are Close now but no clearly dominating Sport).

Truman posted:

At this time and age of technology and video games along with maybe some general fear for danger just outside the front door, it seems to me these things are influencing the newer generations to not be as interested (as a whole) in outdoor activities as previous generations.  To get them back (and it's NOT an easy task unless everyone else is doing it) would be to get them away from their large screen TV's, x-boxes, video game consoles, cell phones, etc. so the they might engage more in face to face contact with pier groups.  Being as "connected" to technology as we've become, it's having a profound effect on people and their relationships and recreational activities.  IMHO

Agree wholeheartedly!  There have been numerous ongoing studies to show that human beings, not just kids, have a general lack of patience in today's society.  Due to advances in technology, human beings, especially kids, are rewarded with instant gratification, EVERYWHERE in their lives.  We no longer have dial up...we have 4G, moving into 5G.  Communication today takes place on the interwebs and through a cloud of things. 

Unfortunately, there is no instant gratification in sports.  It requires a basic level of talent, and some determination to work at it to get better over a long period of time.  Scientifically, it has been recorded that dopamine gets released in our biological system every time someone "Likes" our Facebook post, or responds to a text message.  Therefore, humans are constantly, an instantly, rewarded throughout the day while simply existing on Earth.  This lack of instant reward in sports is most likely the largest determinant in kids seeking other forms of entertainment.

I don't see baseball declining either.  I see it expanding. LL, Rec, A, AA, AAA, Major travel teams.....if you add them all up I think you will see plenty of kids playing baseball. 

Goheels:  Don't forget robot girlfriends and boyfriends.  They are what some of the tech types are talking about. Programmable to be one's perfect mate, i.e., suit one's every whim for personal gratification.  Which won't ultimately workout, but that's for another thread. LOL.

Building upon the instant gratification concept with the assumption we are talking participation, not observation. The decline might have to do with what I think of as a collision of opposing realities. Instead of encouraging kids to work toward goals we publicize and cite "the odds of making it" and effectively have raised these kids to believe they don't really have a shot at high school ball (at best) or beyond. Couple that with a generation that has been built up as great at everything they do and who expect to be instantly rewarded for their skills and you have the aforementioned collision. 

As an aside, there should be balance with "the odds" discussion. Not a terrible thing for kids to have an understanding of the odds, a real assessment of their talent level (though thing for parents and players alike), and also know that hard work and desire can overcome odds, or at least carry you farther. On the other hand odds of a kid from a small town in the Midwest getting a full ride to an Ivy and becoming a notable surgeon are pretty slim and I don't think anyone would recommend we just encourage kids to quit studying because of the odds.