Why SAC Fly?

Us scorekeepers don't make the rules, we just score it according to what we see.

Hitters are taught with a runner on third and less than two outs, to drive a ball to the outfield to score the run. Why is this a saved AB versus having a runner at third, less than two outs and infield back, then beating a ball into the ground to second base to score the same run and have it scored 4-3 RBI and a 0-1? I don't know.

There will be a new collective bargaining agreement next year, so I'd suggest putting this question on the table with everything else they'll be negotiating relative to MLB and OBR.

If you can trade it for a slotting system, I might have a kick back for you :-)

I really don't think hitters go to bat in this situation with the mentality that they are just going to make an out. I think they go up there thinking that they want to hit it out of the park and if someone just happens to catch it and a run scores, they won't be penalized for it. Believe me, they would much rather hit a bomb, than a sac fly.

JM I also agree with the situation about a batter putting a ball in play to get the run home from third, seems like it should apply there as well.

I vote for taking SF off the books. Give them the RBI but charge the AB. Keep SAC bunt though.

There are many, many situations in baseball where a player sacrifices himself for the good of the team. It is part of what makes baseball a team sport. Sac fly is one of them. Sac bunt, ground ball to the right side with runner on 2nd or 3rd, bunting a runner over, taking a hack at a bad pitch when the runner is stealing are just some of them. Why a sac fly or sac bunt is rewarded with no AB and hitting a grounder to the right with a runner on 3rd is not, I don't know. My personal feeling is that you are essentially "taking one for the team", so you should be rewarded. I don't think it should be taken away.

And I have seen coaches tell players, just get it deep and get that run in. I don't think any batter minds making an out to get a run in. Would they rather hit a HR? Oh yeah. But their goal in this situation is to get the runner in FOR THE TEAM. That is the most important thing. Hitting it over the wall is just an added bonus.

Yes players do try to lift the ball or avoid a ground ball in certain situations. Example, winning runner on third, less than 2 outs infield is playing in, batters job is to at least get the ball in air to the outfield.

Thanks for the replies.

Here's a follow up question: In your opinion, if the SAC Fly was eliminated, would it change the way batters approach their at-bat in those situations? What about somebody who, hypothetically, might be chasing Ted Williams .406?

As was previously posted in another thread, there was no such thing as a SF back in Ted's .406 season. If there was, he would've hit .412 or something like that.

Fundamentally, I don't think it would change a hitter's approach in these situations. Baseball is baseball, stats are for the rest of us.

Very well put.

How would it be scored when outfielder clearly makes an error (drops a routine fly ball)that would have been a sac fly? In this case not only the runner at third scored, but one at second as well...2 RBI's and ROE for the batter? or what?

It would be a SF RBI for the hitter, who reached on an E-OF. Second runner scored on the same error.

Always judge what would've happened if the play had been made without error, giving the benefit of the doubt to the offense.

For example: Shallow fly ball and runner takes off like bat out of haites, even though we think he "probably" would've been out if the ball was caught and good throw / tag made, if he drops the fly ball, I score a SF.

Same example: Runner takes three hard steps down the line and stops, see's ball is dropped and scores. No SF, RBI score a straight error.

I had one tonight where a batter/runner hit a ball into the gap, could've been a double but he held up at first and stopped. F8 bobbled the ball and B/R went to second. IMHO, if he runs all the way on a cleanly fielded ball, he gets second. He didn't, so 1B E8.

I have not been on this site for a long time but if I remember correctly there is a difference statisticly for a sacrifice bunt and a sacrifice fly. Though both are treated the same for purposes of batting average, they are not treated the same for on base percentage. Is that correct or not, and if they are treated differently, how does it work?

Nice to see a thread where Theodore Samuel Williams name [old TSW]is mentioned.

TW344

Sac flies are treated as a negative in OBP while sac bunts are not. Here’s how it works.

OBP = H+BB+HBP / AB+BB+HBP+SACF

Ex: 1+10+2 / 30+10+2+0 = 13 / 32 = .406

As opposed to: 1+10+2 / 30+10+2+1 = 13 / 33 = .394

Stats is correct, a sacrifice fly counts against OBP but not AVG, so it has a slightly negative effect on OPS as well.