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15 replies

Wild game tonight

JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
Several interesting calls:

R2, two outs. Batter hits ground ball to 3B, who throws wide to 1B. BU calls him out. After discussion, asks HP for help and rules safe.

Where is R2 placed? He was rounding third on his way home when call was made.

He was placed back at 2b tonight.

R1 and R2, hitter rips ball into LF corner (my son was pitching...) R2 scores, R1 goes to 3rd, batter at second. Before time is called, our coach says R2 missed third. Son walks over with ball and steps on 3rd asking for appeal. Umpires say time is out. Our coach says, OK, if time is out, I'd like to appeal he left early. Umpires say he has to go to the mound and step off, which he does and repeats, runner R2 called out. Time was never called, nor did it appear the ball was recognized as put back in play other than HP saying out when ball was touched at third. I don't think this sequence was correct. Comments?

Another question: Do umpires just have "one of those days" like players? For example: Several times they didn't know the count and had to get together. Once the HP called ball, the catcher\HP appealed, the BU never even looked at him (there was a wild softball game on the next field he seemed to get interested in) and the HP changed call to strike. There were at least 5 times where it clearly sounded like foul tip (I'm talking ball changing direction and going to backstop) and they were simply called strikes and runners / batters advanced.

There were several other wierd things I thought they got right, there was a HBP but the hitter check-swung and was called out on third strike. The over rule by HP when 1B came off the base was clearly the right call (after looking at video tape). There was a balk call where a RHP jumped up but landed in front of the rubber and was called for a balk, which I thought was correct since he was trying to step off and simply failed to do it. There was a trip to the mound to talk about the balk that ultimately became an issue when the coach went to talk to the pitcher a third time and people were clammouring for him to have to be pulled. My notes showed only two trips since I didn't count the discussion on the balk. Their pitcher threw 134 pitches, so pulling him may have saved the game for the other team, but they didn't do it.

Both teams benifited/got hurt and my team won, so I'm not grinding an ax, I'm just wondering if you can have a day where you get all the 'weird stuff' happening at once and even if you have it all correct, the fans might not understand.
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D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by JMoff:
Several interesting calls:

R2, two outs. Batter hits ground ball to 3B, who throws wide to 1B. BU calls him out. After discussion, asks HP for help and rules safe.

Where is R2 placed? He was rounding third on his way home when call was made.

He was placed back at 2b tonight.

R2 probably should have been placed at 3rd, but HTBT.

quote:
R1 and R2, hitter rips ball into LF corner (my son was pitching...) R2 scores, R1 goes to 3rd, batter at second. Before time is called, our coach says R2 missed third.

The ball must be dead for a verbal appeal.
quote:
Son walks over with ball and steps on 3rd asking for appeal.
If the ball were live, this would be a valid appeal.
quote:
Umpires say time is out.
Then the ball is dead.
quote:
Our coach says, OK, if time is out, I'd like to appeal he left early.

Left early? Did you mean R2 missed the base? If the coach appealed R2 missing 3rd, this would be a valid appeal.
quote:
Umpires say he has to go to the mound and step off, which he does and repeats, runner R2 called out. Time was never called, nor did it appear the ball was recognized as put back in play other than HP saying out when ball was touched at third. I don't think this sequence was correct. Comments?

F1 never has to step off to initiate an appeal. If the ball is dead, it can only be made live if F1 is on the rubber with the ball.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by JMoff:
Several interesting calls:

R2, two outs. Batter hits ground ball to 3B, who throws wide to 1B. BU calls him out. After discussion, asks HP for help and rules safe.



Stop right here.

With R2, who as you said later, was rounding third during the play at first, PU should be observing the touch of third and not be able to assist with what happened at first.

When BU asks him for an opinion, it should be, "I was doing my job...that call is yours and yours alone."

The rest, then, never happened.
Last edited by Jimmy03
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by JMoff:
Another question: Do umpires just have "one of those days" like players?

I'm not grinding an ax, I'm just wondering if you can have a day where you get all the 'weird stuff' happening at once and even if you have it all correct, the fans might not understand.


Yes, like players, an umpire can just have one of those days..........and one of those games where everything you ever imagined can happen..........

You cant let those days bother you, it comes with the blue shirt.............then of course there are the days where everything goes right....

If an Umpire is finding he is having more of "those days" than good days.....then he needs to do the following:

1. Do better baseball.....(higher level of play)
2. Get some professional training (clinics)

and if that doesnt help then....

3. re-evaluate your choice of hobby.....
Last edited by piaa_ump
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
Jimmy is correct, if the PU is doing his job, he has nothing to give the BU. The BU should know this and NEVER,EVER ask. Did they kill the ball in the middle of the play to ask? If so then that is also wrong. If the ball was live, then there shouldn't have been any placing of runners, but then the appeal would have been correct.
Umpires do have bad days just like everybody else. They make mistakes all the time, we are human. On the other hand, there are also some umpires that just aren't very good and unfortunately whole groups that just don't train.
The balk sounds wierd. Did he jump or step off improperly. If he jumped with feet and landed in frot of the rubber, this not a balk unless he doesn't throw. If he tried to step off and went forward instead of backward then that is a balk.
There are days when all kinds of crazy things happen. You sort it out the best you can and many times the fans leave confused. The other thing to remember is fans, players and coaches don't see things impartially, so they feel they got jobbed.
JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
The opposing coach came out of the dugout 'between innings' and asked if the BU would ask HP for help. I had R2 rounding third, but that may have been not have been 100% accurate. Upon reviewing the video tape (I'm a bad video guy so I didn't have much to work with), F5 looked the runner back to second, so R2 actually stopped half way to 3rd, then started back up when the throw was made. He might've been right before 3rd, at 3rd or right around 3rd when the play was made at first. There is no way I or anyone else would suggest he didn't make it to third.

The balk was wierd and I was only video taping our defense so I don't have it. It looked like he jumped and landed with both feet in front of the rubber and threw to first, but I could be wrong. To the uneducated fan, it looked like he did something very awkward and wrong. The back foot could've landed on the rubber when he jumped.

The 'left early' was a typo, sorry. It was 'missed base'. I had appeal play at third on the brain... The wierd part on this was that the umpires appeared to act like time was in, but made the pitcher get back on the rubber, never signaled time in but let him appeal. Son stepped on the rubber, immediately stepped off. Batter was no where near the plate or ready to hit and umpire was standing to the side. I can't believe time was 'in' based on that move, but they allowed the appeal after he did that. There was no signal (like pointing to the pitcher) that time was in.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you guys are a great resource in helping those of us who haven't figured out how to get a rule book understand the game. By the way, do they sell them on Amazon? What is the right rule book to get for HS baseball?

Thanks for your replies. My son is a freshman, so i have 3 1/2 more years of this stuff.
JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
Thanks,

I see a rules book, a rules by topic, a case book, baseball simplified & illustrated and an umpire's manual. It looks like I have to buy two to meet the minimum online payment of $10 so I'm going to do that.

I know basic baseball rules having watched easily a thousand games from T-ball to MLB. My interest is in HS specific rules and truely understanding EVERYTHING that is going on at any given point in time...

I always figured when my kids got done playing and I went into baseball withdrawl, I'd become an umpire to 'scratch my itch' for the game.

As always, any help is appreciated
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
For sure, don't get the umpire manual. It covers mechanics only, and is generally ignored in favor of other mechanics systems.

Personally, I think the rule book and case book are best, especially if you are only gettng two. IMO, the simplified book will tend to make you a simpleton, but some people prefer it.

Another option is to sign up with the NFHS for $20, and download the rules/case books, for any sports you are interested in. I like this because the rules are then searchable. (They are also easily quoted on Internet message boards. Smile)
Last edited by 3FingeredGlove
JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
Thanks for the offer.

I went ahead and joined and downloaded the case book and rules. My daughter is a year away from HS softball, so I got those as well.

Interesting the softball rule book is 8 Meg and baseball is only 2 Meg.

I always thought they had too many rules in softball...

Wish me happy reading.

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