Will baseball ever be clean?

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Will baseball ever be clean? Perhaps when the Tide® comes in...

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It hasn't been clean for 50 years.  Not likely to change any time soon.

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I agree.

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Do you mean clean or legal? While greenies weren't illegal they go all the way back to WWII when players came back from combat with the wonders of greenies. Who knows what went on in the pre greenie era. The sportswriters were buddies with the players. They weren't in "gotcha" mode 24/7. I'll bet players have been looking for a competitive advantage since the first paycheck.

First of all, I agree with MTH and Woody.  The reality is, it probably goes back farther than 50 years.  There are reports (including by author and law professor Roger Abrams) that Pud Galvin was taking an injectible steroid-like elixir made from animal testicles and glycerin as far back as 1889.  Players have and will always seek an edge, legal or illegal.

And speaking of illegality, RJM is technically right that amphetimines weren't illegal 50 years ago, but they were illegal 48 years ago (they were made illegal to possess or use without a prescription in 1965), and baseball has had a specific rule against the non-prescription use of prescription drugs since 1971.

Proposing that there is a difference between steroid users (you can't say "PEDs" since greenies too were "performance-enhancing" by any but the most hair-splitting definitions of that phrase) in the 1990s and greenies users in the 1960s through the 1980s (and really, to the present day) based on legal status is a bad argument.  You can talk about the qualitative differences in performance enhancement, or how one is transformative and the other is not, but there is very little if any real difference between the two based on legal status.

No. Baseball will never be clean. Players need to cheat to attain the highest level.

Unfortunately with the money, fan adulation, lifestyle and everything else that goes with and has always gone with any professional sport there will always be those who take the easy route. If ARoid is guilty again, it just goes to show that some of these guys have no regret, and are too dumb or dishonest to learn from their mistakes or even show true shame about being caught. Kind of a sociopathic personality trait in ARoid's case considering some of the other things he does. He can sound as sincere as anybody you ever heard but I think he's just one of those people who can lie right to someone's face and never blink an eye. We'll see how he gets out of this one or if Selig does any thing. I think ARoid would be a tremendous example with a lifetime ban.

As much as I might like to agree with you, I don't know that Selig could do that even if he wanted to.  The PED punishment schedule is collectively bargained, and he didn't fail any test that counted.  He failed the supposedly anonymous test that was the pre-cursor to testing, had his name leaked, and subsequently admitted to taking PEDs in the pre-testing period (2001-2003 or maybe it was 2004).  I'm pretty sure Selig has the power to suspend him for an "out-of-test failure" if based on substantial evidence (which they may or may not get in this Biogenesis case - it looks pretty damning right now, but it's hard to say), but it would technically be his first failure and thus a 50-game suspension, I'm pretty sure.

I think A-Rod may be done, but it will either be because the Yankees buy him out (and nobody else will take him on), they succeed in voiding his contract for PED use, or they try to say he can no longer play because of the hip and try to collect the insurance coverage on his contract.  None of those things seems all that likely to me, though.

I tend to agree that Selig can't suspend him for life--just wishful thinking on my part. What is going to be interesting is the fact that we are getting more guys with two PED suspensions and somebody is eventually going to get that magic third one. I wonder how that will play out.

I wonder that, too.  There haven't been that many guys who have major league experience who've been caught twice in the testing era.  Obviously, Manny is the biggest name, but the likelihood of him getting a major league job long enough to get caught a third time is pretty slim (and I think public opinion - and that of Hall of Fame voters - is pretty well decided on Manny at this point already).  The other ones that I know about (or could find on a quick search) are all players at the fringe (Neifi Perez, Luis Ugueto, Randy Ruiz, Wilson Delgado, Prentice Redman), and I'm not sure a failed test by any of them who are still playing would even generate much news.  I've barely heard of Randy Ruiz, and the only reason I know who Luis Ugueto is is because he played for the Mariners and Lou Piniella once referred to him for an entire year not by name but only as "that Rule 5 kid." 

Maybe that's another record ARod could pursue since he doesn't seem to be a rocket scientist.

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Will baseball ever be clean?

 No.The reward is much too great and outweighs the risk.

it nevere has and never will be

Hey, I just thought up some rules to cover this dilema:

• I will always play the game to the best of my ability.
• I will always play to win, but if I lose, I will not look for an excuse to detract from my opponent's victory.
• I will never take an unfair advantage in order to win.
• I will always abide by the rules of the game — on the diamond as well as in my daily life.
• I will always conduct myself as a true sportsman — on and off the playing field.
• I will always strive for the good of the entire team rather than for my own glory.
• I will never gloat in victory or pity myself in defeat.
• I will do my utmost to keep myself clean — physically, mentally, and morally.
• I will always judge a teammate or an opponent as an individual and never on the basis of race or religion.

Actually, I didn't write those rules.  They were the Code of Conduct written by Connie Mack in 1916.  It seems they should bring them back for today's ballplayers to look at.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this from the original article:

"At least one UM coach makes an appearance as well: Jimmy Goins, the strength and conditioning coach for the Hurricanes baseball team for the past nine seasons. Goins is recorded in multiple client lists; in one detailed page dated December 14, 2011, Bosch writes he's selling him Anavar, testosterone, and a Winstrol/B-12 mix and charging him $400 a month. Another, from this past December, includes sales of HGH and testosterone."

As long as professional players are looking for a competitive advantage anything will happen. This stuff has been going on since I was playing high school ball back in the mid 70's. What worries me is all of the scouts and recruiters who have cut there teeth in the steroid era, and there was that era, who still look for that kind of performance and/or body types. The NCAA testing procedure is a JOKE! The only real time a player is subject to any kind of real testing is if they are signed to a MiLB. Men on 40 man rosters are exempt from MiLB testing procedures. Big difference on professional players  and high school and college. We can discuss greenies, what was in Willie Mays little black bottle to Nolen Ryans workout partner , admitted user. All this will be for naught. We are so obsessed with  catching guys and crucifying them istead of coming up with some kind of way to mitigate all this. Science and technology have growned by leaps and bounds so we must think outside the box and stop using players that are not popular who get caught using as public whipping boys if we are not prepared to take on the icons who just may be as guilty! Remember the words of the great Mike Schmidt, if this stuff was readily available when i played then there is a very good possibility that i would have used them also. Great thing about him is there is no chest thumping how pure he was or is.

nydad just a thought. If those were applied then the likes of Ruth, Cobb , or any number of HOFers would not make it That was the begining of the hypocrosy in professional baseball. Mack included. Remember he was the forerunner of Charlie o Finley,or any Marlins owner, the way he broke teams up. Or any of the early Owners who used the players like surfs. Just saying, no harm or disrespect meant.

None taken Oldman.  You're right.  There was quite a cast of characters in those days.  Truth is, as many of you have pointed out, players have been trying to cheat for decades.  I think they did it for mostly fame at one time, but now it's also done for fortune.

My frustration lies in the fact that I have a 13 year old who I'm teaching to be honest and clean and all of his baseball heroes are falling one by one.  It's sad.

Use athletes as role models on how to compete. You should be his role model on personal conduct. When I coached 8/9 basketball I told the kids to scrap for a rebound like Dennis Rodman. I also told them not to do all the other stuff Rodman does. 

I like the Rodman description.  That's a very good way to put it.

When my son was little he idolized Alien Iverson. From a playing standpoint it was great. The guy played hard. He played hurt. But since he got his mother a house in our neighborhood and was around my son knew as a person he was a jerk.

Theo Ratliff lived in our neighborhood. My son worshipped him for another reason. After playing pickup ball with the kids in one of the neighbor's driveway he autographed my son's ball. He told all the kids to have their parents leave a note in his mailbox for which game they wanted four tickets.

I had to buy my son a new pair of sneakers once because John Salmons autographed the ones he was wearing. He was either playing in the ACC or had just been drafted in the first round. He was a local high school stud.

Ruth and Cobb used PIDs...Performance Inhibiting Drugs.....alcohol.  Nothing they indulged or over-indulged in could be classified as a performing enhancing substance.  In fact, I think Ruth's numbers look even more amazing considering some of those dingers were hit when he was drunk.

that reminds me of a great story i heard about greg luzinski (Who knows if true). to paraphrase, he had been drinking (or was hung over) and somehow managed to hit a home run off tom seaver. apparently he saw three balls coming toward him when he was at bat and he hit the one in the middle. 

iit gets better everyday    now mr schilling is in the picture

Being as they don't test in HS, I wonder how many of those drafted high had a little "help". It sure appears to help one's stats.

pop up  you would be shocked!