With the steady increase in Showcase Tournaments (every weekend)..... will Showcase baseball eventually replace American Legion baseball? Or will American Legion baseball adapt to "weekdays" only play?
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ALB is already impacted by Travel/Showcase baseball. The opportunities for the younger players (Sophs/Juniors)to showcase for colleges during the summer has taken a big toll on Legion.
However, the trend for Legion has been to the underclassman that are not traveling or showcasing, along with graduated seniors, and the returning eligible college players.
Since the Clark Griffith league folded, more college players are getting their reps with their local Post.
Springfield Post 176 beat Vienna Post 180 in the championship last summer and both teams had 5-6 college players. That trend should continue.
ALB has to adjust to what is available and some teams are working successfully to make the adjustment.
However, the trend for Legion has been to the underclassman that are not traveling or showcasing, along with graduated seniors, and the returning eligible college players.
Since the Clark Griffith league folded, more college players are getting their reps with their local Post.
Springfield Post 176 beat Vienna Post 180 in the championship last summer and both teams had 5-6 college players. That trend should continue.
ALB has to adjust to what is available and some teams are working successfully to make the adjustment.
Overall, no, but in some areas of the country probably so, but again across the entire country, replacing in the ballpark of 5,400 ALB teams, never will happen. IMHO
BTW ... did anyone see the Bob Feller special on MLB recently?
quote:History of American Legion Baseball
American Legion Baseball is a national institution, having thrived through a world war, several national tragedies, and times of great prosperity as well as great despair.
The league still stands atop the traditional values upon which it was founded nearly 85 years ago. Since 1925, American Legion Baseball has taught hundreds of thousands of young Americans the importance of sportsmanship, good health and active citizenship. The program is also a promoter of equality, making teammates out of wealthy bankers’ and industrial workers’ sons, and erasing any social divide between them. Most importantly, American Legion Baseball has been, and continues to be, a stepping stone to manhood for millions of young men who have gone on to raise families or play the sport at the highest level.
A modest beginning
Community service has always been a core value of The American Legion. In 1925, this commitment was furthered to include a junior baseball program.
The league was first proposed at an American Legion state convention in Milbank, S.D., when Sioux Falls attorney and department commander Frank G. McCormick invited his close friend, Maj. John L. Griffith, to address the convention. Instead of a traditional speech, Griffith, who was also the collegiate commissioner of the Western Conference (now the Big Ten), spoke about athletics' role in the development of youth.
"The American Legion could well consider the advisability of assisting in the training of young Americans through our athletic games," Griffith said. Athletic competition teaches courage and respect for others, fostering their growth into active citizens, he said.
The South Dakota convention agreed and promptly passed a resolution urging the Legion to create an organized summer baseball league that started each June. National Commander James A. Drain backed the resolution, which passed that fall at the Legion's national convention in Omaha, Neb. It read:
"RESOLVED: That The American Legion ... inaugurate and conduct baseball leagues and tournaments for local championships, and that local champions determined by the competitions be given opportunity to compete in departmental, sectional and regional tournaments, and that a junior world series championship baseball series be conducted at each national convention ... "
The first program in the world to provide a national baseball tournament for teenagers, American Legion Baseball was born.
In 1926, posts in 15 states began to make Griffith's vision a reality. They organized and sponsored teams, drafted local schedules and conducted championship tourneys. Postseason tournaments at the state, sectional and regional levels culminated with a national championship. Only a few changes have been made to the format over the years. The tournament still has a similar setup: 64 teams play at eight regional sites, with eight teams going on to the World Series. The winning team receives a trip to Major League Baseball's World Series, a tradition dating back to 1926.
A little help from their friends
The first American Legion Baseball World Series was held in Philadelphia in 1926. Yonkers, N.Y, Post 321 beat a team from Pocatello, Idaho, capping off what appeared to be a successful first season.
The league, however, hit a few growing pains in its second year. In 1927, the Legion's national convention convened in Paris. With the organization's financial coffers stretched thin from the trip's expenses, the Legion couldn't fund a World Series. No champion was named and the future of American Legion Baseball looked bleak, as the inaugural season wound up costing more than originally planned.
But the Legion's Americanism director, Dan Sowers, worked to keep the league afloat. The tournament format needed $50,000, and Sowers was determined to raise it. Early in 1928, he went to an executive meeting for professional baseball, hoping to reach a sympathetic ear. He found one in Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis, who pledged a $50,000 annual donation from Major League Baseball. Legion Baseball resumed in 1928, and by 1929 participants were coming from every state and the District of Columbia.
Still, the program wasn't in the clear. Like other institutions, Legion Baseball fell on tough times during the Great Depression. In 1933, MLB's funds were sapped dry, and Legion Baseball was left without a sponsor. The annual $50,000 donation was pulled, and it looked likely the national tournament would be abandoned indefinitely.
Again, Sowers set out to find a generous sponsor. Initially, he hounded big corporations, but he was concerned they'd treat to his fledgling baseball league as a public-relations arm. He turned to Frank Knox, a newspaper publisher and former department commander. Knox, who originally cautioned Sowers against using corporate sponsorship, contributed $5,000 and gave Sowers letters of introduction to several other newspaper publishers. An additional $28,500 was raised in donations from the Chicago Daily News, the Omaha World-Tribune, the San Francisco Chronicle, the Indianapolis News, the New Orleans Item-Tribune and the Atlanta Journal. Sowers received the final $6,500 from his own boss, Col. Henry L. Doherty, president of Cities Services.
Legion Baseball soldiered on, even though some posts were still forced to run teams on shoestring budgets. MLB resumed its funding in 1935, starting with a $20,000 donation and gradually working back up to the original amount. Professional baseball now contributes $40,000 yearly, or about 3 percent of the total budget.
American Legion Baseball in the modern era
American Legion Baseball enjoys a reputation as one of the most successful and tradition-rich amateur athletic leagues. Today, the program registers over 5,400 teams in all 50 states, including Canada and Puerto Rico. Almost 100,000 youths, ages 15 to 19, participate annually. Since its inception, the league has had 10 million players, and nearly 75 percent of current college players are program graduates.
Legion Baseball also has a reputation for serving the young people who play for it. In college scholarships, the league annually awards a total of $51,000 - $1,000 for a player selected from each department based upon leadership, character, scholarship and financial need. Recently, the Legion passed a resolution allowing corporate sponsorship, in the hope of creating more financial aid for college. Gatorade already funds $10,000 in scholarships for the Legion Baseball Player of the Year and the eight regional players of the year.
In 1949, the national player of the year was first named through the arrangement of Robert Quinn, director of The National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum. Fittingly, winners receive a trip to the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, N.Y., making them the only amateur athletes invited to the exhibit. The award is now named after George W. Rulon, who served as program coordinator from 1961 to 1987.
Three other recognition awards were established in the 1970s: the Dr. Irvin L. "Click" Cowger RBI Award, the Rawlings Big Stick Award, and the Bob Feller pitching awards. All recognize strong performances in the regional and national tournaments.
Over the years, plenty of other major corporations have joined Gatorade in sponsoring Legion Baseball. In the 1940s, Ford Motor Co. dealers supplied uniforms for local teams. Easton Sports recently signed on as a sponsor, and Baseball Factory has agreed to scout Legion players with big-league aspirations.
A prestigious pedigree
Major League Baseball and American Legion Baseball don't have a formal partnership, but the two owe each other a tremendous debt of gratitude. MLB has sponsored Legion Baseball almost since its inception, and Legion Baseball has returned the favor, churning out major-league prospects since the alumni base has been old enough to be scouted. The number of former Legion players who have gone on to the pros is far too large to chart. More than half of current major-leaguers played Legion Baseball. So did almost every working MLB manager, along with several former commissioners. In all, more than 50 program graduates are in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Naturally, Legion Baseball's alumni base includes some of the sport's most recognizable names. Yogi Berra played for Fred W. Stockholm Post 245 in St. Louis and was once quoted as saying it was the most fun he ever had. Ted Williams suited up for a post in San Diego. Frank Robinson led his Oakland, Calif., team to the only back-to-back national championships in program history. Current Yankees slugger Mark Texeira played in the league's 1997 World Series. Babe Ruth was too old to join when Legion Baseball started, but he spent the final years of his life promoting the program as its director of operations. Other prominent players include Ryne Sandberg, Roy Campanella, Dusty Baker, Albert Pujols, Greg Maddux and Chipper Jones.
Of all the notable former players, Legion Baseball had perhaps the greatest impact on former Cleveland Indians great Bob Feller. A self-described shy farm kid from rural Iowa, Feller cut his teeth playing for Variety Post 313. He says the experience taught him as much about life as it did baseball. Legion Baseball gave him an outlet to be discovered as a pitcher, but also gave him a chance to form lifelong friendships, learn to deal with letdown in athletic competition, and become better prepared for the mental and emotional strain of fighting in a war.
The first Legion alumnus elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame, Feller wrote a column for The American Legion Magazine in June 1963, expressing his love and appreciation for the league after it honored him with a plaque in 1962.
"Truthfully, I feel I should have given a plaque to The American Legion rather than receiving one from it," Feller wrote. He penned the column free of charge and admitted that he never endorsed anything he didn't believe in during his career, even for large sums of money.
Yet baseball isn't the only area where former players have excelled. Legion Baseball graduates have gone on to prominence in other career fields. Former vice president Dick Cheney played for Post 2 in Casper, Wyo. Famed journalist and author Tom Brokaw played Legion ball in South Dakota, and Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack was on a team in Pennsylvania.
In short, Legion Baseball graduates are proud contributors throughout our society and often are the most successful people in their respective career fields.
BTW ... did anyone see the Bob Feller special on MLB recently?
"Overall, no, but in some areas of the country probably so," CM
CM is right on. AL is going to vary from post to post because of a number of factors; post membership/fund raising, local area family finances, area college attention to AL games, etc. The 3 AL post teams nearest me vary significantly now and I think the creation of more "free" showcase teams is going to affect our AL teams too.
CM is right on. AL is going to vary from post to post because of a number of factors; post membership/fund raising, local area family finances, area college attention to AL games, etc. The 3 AL post teams nearest me vary significantly now and I think the creation of more "free" showcase teams is going to affect our AL teams too.
quote:ALB is already impacted by Travel/Showcase baseball. The opportunities for the younger players (Sophs/Juniors)to showcase for colleges during the summer has taken a big toll on Legion.
However, the trend for Legion has been to the underclassman that are not traveling or showcasing, along with graduated seniors, and the returning eligible college players.
I agree with Wagoneer, but I see it slightly different. Showcasing and elite travel teams are here to stay. They serve a purpose for college programs with limited recruiting budgets which is just about everybody these days. Many schools can come to one place and see many prospects. This is not usually the case for American Legion, although you may get a couple local or state schools to stop by. So, for that reason I believe showcasing is going to be the predominant method for sophomores/juniors to be college recruited by large college baseball programs. At this time, I don't think it is economically feasible to hold local only showcases.....it would be better for a college to have a select camp to get a decent turnout of prospects. Economics 101 of supply and demand. The colleges want to see as many prospects as they can, and the prospects want to be seen by as many colleges as possible.
American Legion is made up of a few underclassmen, graduated seniors, recently committed college players, and returning college players. I really see travel baseball and American Legion co-existing as there is very little overlap in the players they seek. If American Legion changes their goals, and makeup then possibly they could be competing for the same players. My son played American Legion last summer after playing 3 years of elite national travel baseball. He enjoyed American Legion tremendously. He told me that several of his west coast college team mates had no idea what American Legion was which kind of surprised me.
The OP is kind of behind the times, I think.
Though I agree that -- at this point at least -- exposure baseball and Legion baseball serve two different purposes and thus have every reason to co-exist.
When I was in HS, Legion ball was the elite outlet for baseball. Today, that is just not so. While HS and Legion games will still have the occasional scout watching a particular player or two of interest, they will never provide the exposure that a high level travel program will. But to the extent you have local guys who are not on that circuit -- whether because they are a year young yet, maybe not at that level, or maybe already done with it -- there's a lot to like about any organization that lets the kids keep playing all summer.
The move a few years back to include 19's in Legion play did help the caliber of games quite a bit, I have to say. Before then, it seemed like the pitching got so depleted that the games just got way too sloppy, but there's been a definite step up the last couple of years. It was a good step by Legion to keep the games stronger and thus stay viable on into the future.
Though I agree that -- at this point at least -- exposure baseball and Legion baseball serve two different purposes and thus have every reason to co-exist.
When I was in HS, Legion ball was the elite outlet for baseball. Today, that is just not so. While HS and Legion games will still have the occasional scout watching a particular player or two of interest, they will never provide the exposure that a high level travel program will. But to the extent you have local guys who are not on that circuit -- whether because they are a year young yet, maybe not at that level, or maybe already done with it -- there's a lot to like about any organization that lets the kids keep playing all summer.
The move a few years back to include 19's in Legion play did help the caliber of games quite a bit, I have to say. Before then, it seemed like the pitching got so depleted that the games just got way too sloppy, but there's been a definite step up the last couple of years. It was a good step by Legion to keep the games stronger and thus stay viable on into the future.
I believe that legion ball has taken a back seat to showcase baseball in the state, at least in the Tidewater area of Virginia. Right wrong or indifferent... that is the state of affairs in my opinion. Now we can make an argument about 19 year olds playing senior legion but the majority of high school players that have committed or have yet to commit (those that are good enough) have chosen to play on a showcase team and not legion ball.
I agree with most of what you guys are saying.
So the next question is....what happens next ?
Does the American Legion Baseball brethren just stand by and watch Legion Baseball get "watered down"? And by that I mean let the "good" players go play showcase...leaving Legion Ball to get the leftovers? (I know some of you think that has already happened)
I have noticed the players want to play both. Although the Showcase offers a chance to "show" your talent to College coaches it does not offer the competition that players live for when they are playing rival teams within their community. In other words the players would prefer to "not" have to make a choice to play one or the other. I am sure they would like the opportunity to play both. I know at last years District 11 All-Star game there were alot of good players from the Richmond area playing ALB. Not to mention those that attended the game saw the likes of Brian O'Conner(UVA) scouting players, which tells me ALB is still relevant.
With that said.....should American Legion Baseball take a proactive approach and try to keep the integrity(see Milbys post) of the league? (not let it get watered down) Should ALB change some of their long standing traditions to allow both platforms to co-exist?
I personally would like to see the two platforms co-exist. I agree that the Showcase tournaments are here to stay. I also feel ALB has been around to long (since 1926) to bow down now.
So the question is.....how do they co-exist?
can ALB be played during the week like High School ball?
can ALB's season be moved to the Fall (Oct-Nov)?
can ALB up the age to 20 to allow college soph. a place to play in the summer?
What are some of your suggestions/ideas as to how both can co-exist?
So the next question is....what happens next ?
Does the American Legion Baseball brethren just stand by and watch Legion Baseball get "watered down"? And by that I mean let the "good" players go play showcase...leaving Legion Ball to get the leftovers? (I know some of you think that has already happened)
I have noticed the players want to play both. Although the Showcase offers a chance to "show" your talent to College coaches it does not offer the competition that players live for when they are playing rival teams within their community. In other words the players would prefer to "not" have to make a choice to play one or the other. I am sure they would like the opportunity to play both. I know at last years District 11 All-Star game there were alot of good players from the Richmond area playing ALB. Not to mention those that attended the game saw the likes of Brian O'Conner(UVA) scouting players, which tells me ALB is still relevant.
With that said.....should American Legion Baseball take a proactive approach and try to keep the integrity(see Milbys post) of the league? (not let it get watered down) Should ALB change some of their long standing traditions to allow both platforms to co-exist?
I personally would like to see the two platforms co-exist. I agree that the Showcase tournaments are here to stay. I also feel ALB has been around to long (since 1926) to bow down now.
So the question is.....how do they co-exist?
can ALB be played during the week like High School ball?
can ALB's season be moved to the Fall (Oct-Nov)?
can ALB up the age to 20 to allow college soph. a place to play in the summer?
What are some of your suggestions/ideas as to how both can co-exist?
quote:So the question is.....how do they co-exist?
can ALB be played during the week like High School ball?
can ALB's season be moved to the Fall (Oct-Nov)?
can ALB up the age to 20 to allow college soph. a place to play in the summer?
Gator804,
As I stated above, I think they co-exist just fine today and serve different purposes. However, if either one changes, it will have an effect on the other and people will have to choose. IMHO, it is not so much a question of when & what, but more a question of WHO.
Showcase and travel baseball is locked in on the high school player who wants to play in college. Unless it is a local college, chances are ALB is not going to help him get the exposure he needs to get recruited by many colleges. Colleges see hundreds and thousands of players at showcases and travel tournaments. It doesn't make sense for college coaches to go to one ALB game when they can see more prosepects and more games at a showcase tournament. ALB is locked in on the players who have committed to a college or are enrolled at a college as well as a few high school players who do not want to play travel baseball for one reason or another. I think it makes more sense for ABL to go after more college freshmen & sophomores (former high school players) to expand their pool of available players. If they try to compete head on with showcase/travel baseball for the high school kids, I just don't see it working for them. The college baseball recruiting system & infrastructure is pretty much in place, and I don't see that changing as things stand today.
I would like to see them co-exist.
My son played both last year and it was exhausting for him. He played showcase almost every weekend and ALB during the week and weekends if he did not travel.
As a pitcher, he only pitched for the showcase team and that left the ALB in a bind sometimes during the week. Not sure the only during the week approach would work and allow rest between games for pitchers.
My son played to hang out with his HS teammates and other players from the area. The community element referenced by another post. The showcase events are "work" and he played ALB for "fun".
He will not do both this summer because in hindsight, 6 plus games in a 5 day rolling span is too much
My son played both last year and it was exhausting for him. He played showcase almost every weekend and ALB during the week and weekends if he did not travel.
As a pitcher, he only pitched for the showcase team and that left the ALB in a bind sometimes during the week. Not sure the only during the week approach would work and allow rest between games for pitchers.
My son played to hang out with his HS teammates and other players from the area. The community element referenced by another post. The showcase events are "work" and he played ALB for "fun".
He will not do both this summer because in hindsight, 6 plus games in a 5 day rolling span is too much
You were fortunate. Most Legion teams don't allow players to miss Legion games to go play for an exposure team, and sometimes it's hard to get off even to go to a showcase or the Commonwealth Games.
To the folks who organize Legion play, they regard themselves as the pinnacle of HS age baseball and they often take offense at the very idea that a player would give top priority to an exposure team. But what Fenway said is on the money. A player with designs on college ball has to go where the scouts are, or risk ending up overlooked.
To me, anyone who works to organize baseball at any level has my thanks, and I hope they never stop. But sometimes you have to accept the inevitability of change, and here, ALB will need to accept that it is not the top choice for higher level players.
It's like when Brent Musburger gushes during the Williamsport telecasts that the teams there represent the best talent in America. Williamsport represents a lot of good things, but anyone who's been around baseball the last decade or so knows that what you see there is far from the best talent in the U.S. If that ever was true, it ain't no more.
To the folks who organize Legion play, they regard themselves as the pinnacle of HS age baseball and they often take offense at the very idea that a player would give top priority to an exposure team. But what Fenway said is on the money. A player with designs on college ball has to go where the scouts are, or risk ending up overlooked.
To me, anyone who works to organize baseball at any level has my thanks, and I hope they never stop. But sometimes you have to accept the inevitability of change, and here, ALB will need to accept that it is not the top choice for higher level players.
It's like when Brent Musburger gushes during the Williamsport telecasts that the teams there represent the best talent in America. Williamsport represents a lot of good things, but anyone who's been around baseball the last decade or so knows that what you see there is far from the best talent in the U.S. If that ever was true, it ain't no more.