I have no idea who will win between TX and CA but I don't see TX batters being intimidated by any of the CA pitchers. I think it will come down to who is playing better that day. They seem so evenly matched to me.
Speaking of pitchers, I was quite impressed by the pitcher from Mexico who pitched the first 6 innings against Panama.
Both teams have seen plenty of this type of pitching. I didn't notice that Texas had any 70mph types but then again I haven't seen their games. Conejo faced quite a few high 60s pitchers in the district tournament and at this point tends to feed on them. My guess is that Texas will have to throw a curveballer against Conejo.
Conejo is a tournament team that is drawn from multiple LL charters. McIntyre and Karp both played for the SoCal Ravens a pay to play team and most of the rest played for the Conejo Cougars, a team that was ranked in the SoCal USSSA majors.
My guess is that Texas is pretty similar and that they have been getting around LL rules just the same as Conejo. You just don't repeat without some serious bending of the rules unless you've got a Sean Burroughs to carry your team. As good as Grichuk is he certainly didn't carry the Richmond team last year.
It was funny to hear the announcers speaking about the Maryland team drawing from a population base of about 1900 when Conejo Valley draws from 2 LL charters covering a population base of around 70,000 or more.
Conejo is a tournament team that is drawn from multiple LL charters. McIntyre and Karp both played for the SoCal Ravens a pay to play team and most of the rest played for the Conejo Cougars, a team that was ranked in the SoCal USSSA majors.
My guess is that Texas is pretty similar and that they have been getting around LL rules just the same as Conejo. You just don't repeat without some serious bending of the rules unless you've got a Sean Burroughs to carry your team. As good as Grichuk is he certainly didn't carry the Richmond team last year.
It was funny to hear the announcers speaking about the Maryland team drawing from a population base of about 1900 when Conejo Valley draws from 2 LL charters covering a population base of around 70,000 or more.
The Conejo Valley manager, Tom Ginther made a real horse's *** of himself. His actions certainly substantiate why so many rooted against CV throughout the tournament. It wasn't only his arguing the judgment call in the sixth inning or his refusual to cool his jets even after the plate umpire told him to get back in the dugout. When he was interviewed on national tv after the game, he whined like a little child - offering one excuse after another while refusing to praise the World Champions from Curacao.
I think the kids from Conejo Valley have a right to be proud, even though they were a stacked team. The kids didn't cheat to put together the team. Conejo Valley's manager and BOD on the other hand have been cheating for years just to get this particular team to Williamsport. They deserve to be thrown out of LL baseball. I hope people will go back to the first few posts of this thread to see just how early I predicted this result and why I predicted it.
I first protested Conejo Valley's actions in 2002 before the first game of the 9-10 district tournament. The DA at the time simply threatened to split our league if I took any action. This year we had a new DA and Conejo Valley was so worried that they would be forced to split their league by the rules that they tried to form a whole new district. I e-mailed Williamsport before this year's district tournament to explain the situation and they referred it back to West Region. West Region responded to the effect that they were aware of the problem and would fix it next year. How many teams lost their chance to advance this year? Conejo doesn't care if it is fixed next year. That will mostly affect all the new people who will sign up for the first time hoping to share the "glory".
I first protested Conejo Valley's actions in 2002 before the first game of the 9-10 district tournament. The DA at the time simply threatened to split our league if I took any action. This year we had a new DA and Conejo Valley was so worried that they would be forced to split their league by the rules that they tried to form a whole new district. I e-mailed Williamsport before this year's district tournament to explain the situation and they referred it back to West Region. West Region responded to the effect that they were aware of the problem and would fix it next year. How many teams lost their chance to advance this year? Conejo doesn't care if it is fixed next year. That will mostly affect all the new people who will sign up for the first time hoping to share the "glory".
CADad - I commend you for your insight. I went back and read your posts and it was if you had a crystal ball. Nevertheless, the CV manager proved your points with his comments on national television and in today's local papers. "It's all about me" was very obvious. The kids should be proud - the managers, coaches and CVLL - shame on you.
Although we live in a United States Territory we were forced to play in the Latin American Region until recently. We are now in the Caribbean Region after Little League split the regions up again.
Anyway we had a very special team about eight years ago. We lost in the semis to the Domingo Republic who was later disqualified due to overage players. Panama as the runnerup that year went to Williamsport.
My point is I wonder if Little League realizes the once in a lifetime opportunity some kids are being denied when this stuff goes on. It's easy to say the problem will be remedied next year but, as CADad says, there is no next year for the kids that got the raw deal this year.
Anyway, it was nice to see Curacao win. Little island with limited population but the nicest people you could ever hope to meet.
Anyway we had a very special team about eight years ago. We lost in the semis to the Domingo Republic who was later disqualified due to overage players. Panama as the runnerup that year went to Williamsport.
My point is I wonder if Little League realizes the once in a lifetime opportunity some kids are being denied when this stuff goes on. It's easy to say the problem will be remedied next year but, as CADad says, there is no next year for the kids that got the raw deal this year.
Anyway, it was nice to see Curacao win. Little island with limited population but the nicest people you could ever hope to meet.
CADad,
I finally got around to reading this thread.
I am confused. You keep calling the LLWS US champs Cornejo Valley.
In an early post in this thread you said there was another league, Thousand Oaks that was in the tourny along with Cornejo.
The California team at Williamsport was identified as Thousand Oaks.
Could you please explain who is who?
I finally got around to reading this thread.
I am confused. You keep calling the LLWS US champs Cornejo Valley.
In an early post in this thread you said there was another league, Thousand Oaks that was in the tourny along with Cornejo.
The California team at Williamsport was identified as Thousand Oaks.
Could you please explain who is who?
Cong,
The correct name for the LLWS team was Conejo Valley East. Conejo Valley LL is one of two Little Leagues from Thousand Oaks. The other is Thousand Oaks LL.
The City of Thousand Oaks has a population of about 125,000. There are two Little Leagues in Thousand Oaks. Both were forced by LL to split into two charter areas each about 3 years ago because they had such large populations giving them an unfair advantage in all-star competition. Conejo Valley LL has two charter areas, Conejo Valley East and Conejo Valley West. The Conejo Valley West charter only exists on paper. The two Conejo Valley charters have a population base of about 70,000 to 75,000 between them. Thousand Oaks LL has two charter areas, Thousand Oaks National and Thousand Oaks American. The two Thousand Oaks LL charters have a population base of about 50,000 to 55,000 between them. This year Williamsport made Thousand Oaks LL send an all-star team from each of the their two charters despite having only 6 major teams and 8 minor teams between the two charters. Both of the Thousand Oaks LL teams did surprisingly well in the district tournament. We eliminated TO National 7-1 and TO American was eliminated by a team that lost to Conejo Valley by a score of 2-0 if I remember correctly.
Conejo Valley only sent a team from their Conejo Valley East charter and got waivers for the kids who resided in the Conejo Valley West charter area to play on the Conejo Valley East team. Three years ago when Conejo Valley split into the two charter areas they claimed that the Conejo Valley West charter area did not have enough players to form a league but that they had drawn the boundary lines that way because of expected growth. That growth has more than occurred over the past couple years but Conejo Valley has continued to claim that they couldn't form a league. At the time of the split the DA allowed Conejo Valley to get away with this approach. The DA at the time was from Conejo Valley. This year a new DA was elected in part because of dissatisfaction with Conejo Valley being allowed to get away with breaking LL rules. Conejo Valley attempted to break away and form a new district so that they wouldn't have to follow the LL rules and break up their all-star team. This was unsuccessful but the DA was unable to force them to split into two all-star teams because of what the previous DA had done to grandfather in that approach.
The end result was that Conejo Valley LL with two charters and a population base of 70 to 75,000 and with 27 teams in the 9-12 age group sent one team to the all-star tournament. At the same time Thousand Oaks LL with two charters, a population base of 50 to 55,000 and 14 teams in the 9-12 age group was forced by Williamsport to send two teams.
To top it all off, I'm not sure about this year but Conejo Valley's 9-10 team also had a player who was waived onto the team from the Thousand Oaks LL area.
It would be interesting to see how many of the kids from the Conejo Valley East LL team actually resided in the Conejo Valley East boundaries. My guess, and that is all it is, is that only about 8 of the 12 were from Conejo Valley East.
The correct name for the LLWS team was Conejo Valley East. Conejo Valley LL is one of two Little Leagues from Thousand Oaks. The other is Thousand Oaks LL.
The City of Thousand Oaks has a population of about 125,000. There are two Little Leagues in Thousand Oaks. Both were forced by LL to split into two charter areas each about 3 years ago because they had such large populations giving them an unfair advantage in all-star competition. Conejo Valley LL has two charter areas, Conejo Valley East and Conejo Valley West. The Conejo Valley West charter only exists on paper. The two Conejo Valley charters have a population base of about 70,000 to 75,000 between them. Thousand Oaks LL has two charter areas, Thousand Oaks National and Thousand Oaks American. The two Thousand Oaks LL charters have a population base of about 50,000 to 55,000 between them. This year Williamsport made Thousand Oaks LL send an all-star team from each of the their two charters despite having only 6 major teams and 8 minor teams between the two charters. Both of the Thousand Oaks LL teams did surprisingly well in the district tournament. We eliminated TO National 7-1 and TO American was eliminated by a team that lost to Conejo Valley by a score of 2-0 if I remember correctly.
Conejo Valley only sent a team from their Conejo Valley East charter and got waivers for the kids who resided in the Conejo Valley West charter area to play on the Conejo Valley East team. Three years ago when Conejo Valley split into the two charter areas they claimed that the Conejo Valley West charter area did not have enough players to form a league but that they had drawn the boundary lines that way because of expected growth. That growth has more than occurred over the past couple years but Conejo Valley has continued to claim that they couldn't form a league. At the time of the split the DA allowed Conejo Valley to get away with this approach. The DA at the time was from Conejo Valley. This year a new DA was elected in part because of dissatisfaction with Conejo Valley being allowed to get away with breaking LL rules. Conejo Valley attempted to break away and form a new district so that they wouldn't have to follow the LL rules and break up their all-star team. This was unsuccessful but the DA was unable to force them to split into two all-star teams because of what the previous DA had done to grandfather in that approach.
The end result was that Conejo Valley LL with two charters and a population base of 70 to 75,000 and with 27 teams in the 9-12 age group sent one team to the all-star tournament. At the same time Thousand Oaks LL with two charters, a population base of 50 to 55,000 and 14 teams in the 9-12 age group was forced by Williamsport to send two teams.
To top it all off, I'm not sure about this year but Conejo Valley's 9-10 team also had a player who was waived onto the team from the Thousand Oaks LL area.
It would be interesting to see how many of the kids from the Conejo Valley East LL team actually resided in the Conejo Valley East boundaries. My guess, and that is all it is, is that only about 8 of the 12 were from Conejo Valley East.
Hi CADad - You must be from Moorpark. You are right on - Conejo Valley beat El Rio 2-0 in their very first game in District and then beat Saticoy 2-1 to win the District. Taiwan did not compete for several years in the tournament because they were drawing from outside appropriate boundaries - this time, it appears LL officials condoned the practice. There will be no tomorrow for El Rio, Moorpark and the other teams just like there was no tomorrow for State College, PA the year Danny Almonte's cheating coaches beat them in the regional final on their way to Williamsport.
Moorpark did not play Conejo Valley. We did fairly well in the tournament but were beaten by other teams. Conejo Valley took no chances away from us. El Rio had only the one top pitcher and wasn't a strong team otherwise. The 2nd best team in our district was Oxnard Northside. They were beaten by Conejo Valley 6-2 in the winner's bracket final. Northside then lost to Port Hueneme, who they had previously beaten 5-1, in extra innings. Port Hueneme had excellent pitching but relatively poor hitting. They used up their pitchers against Northside and against us in the previous game and didn't have any pitchers left against Conejo Valley. Northside was a better hitting team than Conejo Valley but they didn't have a 70 mph pitcher. IMO Northside was comparable to the Texas team or to the Nevada team that Conejo beat twice in the regional tournament.
Saticoy lost to Conejo Valley in the sectional title game by a score of 2-1 after being mercied by Conejo Valley in an earlier game.
Saticoy lost to Conejo Valley in the sectional title game by a score of 2-1 after being mercied by Conejo Valley in an earlier game.
CADad - Weren't there a few teams (CV included) who had byes in the first round of the District tournmanet?
6 teams had to play the opening round and 5 teams played their first game in the next round. This was a change from the original 10 team draw when Thousand Oaks LL only had one team in the tournament. Thousand Oaks ended up pulling their team out of the 11yo tournament in order to fill the two teams. It was a random draw as far as I know. Generally speaking, the ideal draw is to face a weak team in the opening round and then face your strongest opponent, who had a first round bye, in the second round. That way the kids get over their first round jitters before playing a strong opponent.
CaDad,
Thank you for the explaination.
Thank you for the explaination.
That's incredible!!!
The Minneapolis suburb that we live in has a population of 60,000+ and we have 3 LL charters. If we were able to put one team together we would most definitely dominate the state of Minnesota and more than likely the Midwest Region.
Very sad!!!
Jason
The Minneapolis suburb that we live in has a population of 60,000+ and we have 3 LL charters. If we were able to put one team together we would most definitely dominate the state of Minnesota and more than likely the Midwest Region.
Very sad!!!
Jason
FlippJ,
You can't go entirely on population. We just don't get that high a percentage of kids playing LL out here. There is a lot of competition from other sports and from PONY ball. For example look at Thousand Oaks LL. They had a population base of 50,000+ and were only able to field 6 major teams. They really couldn't support the two charters that they had. On the other hand one of the reasons they had so few players was that a lot of their top players left the league after the 9-10 all-stars. They were very unhappy that Conejo didn't have to split their league and they did. The difference that splitting leagues made was very noticeable during the 9-10 district tournament.
A more appropriate evalution tool is the number of teams in the 9-12 age group. Thousand Oaks had about 14 teams and was split into two charters, we had 18 teams for one charter and Conejo Valley had 27 teams in the 9-12 age group.
Ironically enough as I was typing this out I got a call from my wife who needed my help preparing a certificate of recognition for our City Council to bestow upon Conejo Valley's LL team. Oh well, no matter what it was still quite an accomplishment for the kids.
You can't go entirely on population. We just don't get that high a percentage of kids playing LL out here. There is a lot of competition from other sports and from PONY ball. For example look at Thousand Oaks LL. They had a population base of 50,000+ and were only able to field 6 major teams. They really couldn't support the two charters that they had. On the other hand one of the reasons they had so few players was that a lot of their top players left the league after the 9-10 all-stars. They were very unhappy that Conejo didn't have to split their league and they did. The difference that splitting leagues made was very noticeable during the 9-10 district tournament.
A more appropriate evalution tool is the number of teams in the 9-12 age group. Thousand Oaks had about 14 teams and was split into two charters, we had 18 teams for one charter and Conejo Valley had 27 teams in the 9-12 age group.
Ironically enough as I was typing this out I got a call from my wife who needed my help preparing a certificate of recognition for our City Council to bestow upon Conejo Valley's LL team. Oh well, no matter what it was still quite an accomplishment for the kids.