"Willie Mays: The Life, The Legend,"

Link to an excerpt from the book on SI.com
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...s.excerpt/index.html

Two hour interview with Bob Costas on MLBN tonight at 8PM est.

quote:

The very best player I have ever seen when you consider 5 tools and being able to use every one of them on a baseball field

infielddad,

I share your opinion. In fact IMO, the greatest player ever, period! Don't read many books, but think I will get that one.

quote:

Originally posted by OHdaddio:
Link to an excerpt from the book on SI.com
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...s.excerpt/index.html

Two hour interview with Bob Costas on MLBN tonight at 8PM est.

Thanks for posting the excerpt!

quote:

Mays faced Paige in one game, in the summer of 1948, when Paige, 41 and playing for the Kansas City Monarchs, had been pitching professionally for more than 20 years. Mays knew little of the legend, and his first time up, he hit a fastball for a double. As he dusted himself off, Paige walked toward him. "That's it," he muttered.

Next time up, Paige walked halfway to home plate and said to Mays, "Little boy, I'm not gonna trick you now. I'm gonna throw you three fastballs, and you're gonna sit down."

Paige threw three fastballs, and Mays sat down.

This is a pretty amazing anecdote for a number of reasons. In 1948, Larry Doby had just broken the color barrier in the American League for Bill Veck and the Cleveland Indians. Satchel Paige would help the Indians that year win the 1948 World Series which was their last championship. Six years later in 1954, the Indians had set the record for regular season wins and were prohibitive favorites to win the 1954 series. There probably is not one day that goes by where some sports network does not show Willie Mays tracking down Vic Wertz's momentous blast about 450 ft in the Polo grounds. One play turned the entire series around and into a four game sweep.

Thanks for posting this infielddad. Brings back some great memories. I became a baseball fan in the late 60s growing up down the street from Jimmy Davenport. Those were some amazing Giants teams with Mays, McCovey, Marichal, et al. I also learned baseball could break your heart. All that talent and no championships. Of course it was different then, a 162 game season then only the best from the NL and AL left standing to fight it out in the WS (no playoffs).

I share the opinion that Mays was the most complete position player in MLB history.

I think you have to give Ruth the nod overall as the greatest player of all time, given the impact he had on the game, and the fact that he excelled as a pitcher for some years before shifting to OF only. And while we often see the cartoonish Babe with the big belly portrayed in the annals, as a youngster he was very slim and mobile, a 5-tool guy in his own right, not just a HR guy.

In all likelihood, Satchell Paige was the greatest pitcher of all time. The workload he carried and the number of years he carried it is nothing short of astounding. In exhibitions he regularly snuffed out MLB teams and MLB all star teams, I mean throwing complete game 1- or 2-hitters with 1 or 0 runs scored. The man was still dominating when he was finally permitted to pitch in MLB in his 40's, probably really his LATE 40's. To think what he did during all those years riding buses on back roads and having to make a go of it in the Jim Crow era, I just don't know how any other pitcher could ever compare with what he overcame, what he accomplished, or his sheer longevity.

One advantage of being old like I am is that I can say I saw Willie from the year he broke in, 1951 until he retired. It is one of the many joys in my life---he was a thrill to watc h in action

By the way I believe he is doing a lengthy interview with Bob Coostas on MLBTV either tonite or a week from tonite---sure viewing time for me that is sure as Willie is my favorite ball player as well as the best player of all time, bar none.

If you read Leo Durocher's autobiography, he states that the Mays catch in the 1954 World Series was not even close to being Mays best catch. Durocher of course was Mays first manager in the Majors and saw many including his great barehanded grab off the bat of Rocky Nelson.

"Say Hey" has been busy promotin'! Great interview at GQ.
http://www.gq.com/sports/profi...ays-extended-q-and-a

Willie was a great player - but he still walks in the shadow of Mr. Arthur Louis Shamsky.

The book arrived today courtesy of Amazon. Beginning tomorrow, this one gets my full attention.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
The book arrived today courtesy of Amazon. Beginning tomorrow, this one gets my full attention.

infielddad - don't know if you saw it, but the Mays interview the other night with Bob Costas was excellent. Said he never went to bed at night without visualizing what he was going to do the next day in the game. Probably years ahead of his time in that respect. Struck by how he didn't let the civil rights issues make him bitter and how much dignity he has. Said the Wertz catch was not his greatest. He said his greatest was the one that he jumped over Bobby Bonds to make in centerfield where he knocked himself out. They showed the catch and it was incredible. It was violent and incredible. Luckily no one was permently injured.

whoops-

ClevelandDad, I saw it on game of the week. I still remember Bonds taking the ball out of Mays' mitt and holding it up.

Yes, I think that one was better than "The Catch".

CD: I was fortunate to see that play live. It was incredible. You mention the other participant in that play - Barry's dad, Bobby Bonds. He had his own demons, but he was a very special player (a rare combo of speed and power) that is very underrated in my opinion. Although he played in the same OF as Willie for a short time, I think he was somewhat hindered by having to follow a legend, i.e. be the next "Willie Mays" - simply impossible.

My copy arrived yesterday and I'm several chapters in, but a bit sleep deprived. He's my all time favorite athlete, but I didn't know he was pretty well pegged from a very young age for stardom. His dad is quoted about things he did when he was 1...yes 1, that made him feel Willie, Jr. would be a star someday. The guy should have been a scout. For the one-sporters, he also excelled at basketball and football.

Today, I started reading the book and remembering
the personal visits with Willie at my home and tire store in Burlingame. Willie and Billy O'Dell helped me promote the business.

On page 378, he talks about the kids. During a lunch at my home in Burlingame, my mother asked Willie, "why do you not go to Las Vegas same as the Dodger's Frank Howard, Willie Davis and Ron Perranoski.

Willie said "he had the opportunity to travel with Lionel Hampton, however my image with the kids is more important".

On page 302, they talk about the Willie Mays "All Stars" barnstorming team in 1955 as the "greatest team every assembled".

They won every game [28], including the game in El Paso, Texas against our Army "All Stars". Yes, I agree that this was the "greatest" team in the history of baseball.

"Thanks for the memories"

Bob

I have an autographed poster of Willie in son's room. It has an alarm and barbed-wire around it so nobody will touch it!

I can't wait to get the book!

I've got to have this book too! Mr. Williams, just curious as to who was on the 1955 barnstorming team because just for fun I think I might be able to top the team with another undefeated all star team that few people know about.

Willie Mays, Monte Irwin, Henry Aaron, Roy Campanella, Ernie Banks, George Crowe, Junior Gillam, Joe Black, Brooks Lawrence. Don Newcombe, Sam Jones, Larry Doby. Connie Johnson [White Sox] pitched this game.

There is an old article and photograph if you need.

Bob

Wow, that is a supremely talented team. The one I was talking about was the team that the great manager Connie Mack took to Japan in the winter of 1934 with Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Charley Gehringer, Lefty Grove, Earl Averill, Lefty Gomez, 6 time 20 game winner Wes Farrell, and several others I can look up if needed. Everyone of these players is in the hall of Fame except Farrell. What a matchup these two teams would be! As a sidenote, Boston backup catcher Moe Berg who spoke at least ten languages and had graduated from Princeton was along as a spy but thats a whole nother story.

Threebagger;

yes that was a great team. Lefty Gomez in our 1st Goodwill Series in 1983, threw out the 1st ball and Mr. H. Makino the President of the Japan HS Baseball Federation caught the ball.

When I "pick up" the Japan National Team at the SF airport, Mr. Makino show me a old "yellow" colored
newspaper when he played against the 1934 team in Osaka. Japan TV filmed our games to 40 million people in Japan. Makino was famous in Japan as he was the President of the Japan Federation and one of most powerful men in Japan until he "passed away", a few ago. I attended his "memorial"service in Osaka.

Bob

Yes I believe that 1934 team was the first whole team to go there although in 1931, Berg and Lefty O'Doul went with I believe a few other players to give seminars and lessons. I envy all the adventures and people you've met in your international baseball travels. It's interesting that you had that "connection" with the very team I was talking about. Love to meet you some day.

Back to Willie, It would be hard to argue against him being the greatest "5 tool guy" there ever was although the Babe had the added pitching skills. But the Babe didn't have the game breaking speed on the bases or in the outfield that Willie did. By the way I also saw that catch by Willie in the collision with Bobby Bond's. I think it was on a Saturday afternoon game on TV.

Three Bagger;

Maybe you can join our SSK team in North Carolina at the USA Baseball Labor Day Tournament. We have entered 2 teams, including players from Australia, China and Mexico playing on the same team with our American players.

Bob
<rwilliams@goodwillseries.org>

Thanks, Mr. Williams, I'll certainly keep that in mind. My oldest son plays in Mississippi about halfway to NC so maybe I could expand a visit in the fall.

Really enjoying this book. Trying to limit myself to a chapter or two a night to make it last.

Other than the famous few video highlights of Willie in his prime, my own memories are mainly of old Willie finishing up with the Mets. A lot more to the story than I ever knew.

Freddie;
you will notice the ability of Willie to know the "inside" game since his young age while playing along side his father. His instincts were above average.
Question: can this be taught?
Answer: I refuse to believe it can not, if a player has the desire to learn and to teach himself.

Roberto, Henry Aaron and Willie would swing at a specific pitch in order to have the pitcher throw it again.

This is "setting up" the pitcher.
"He enjoyed playing the game".
Bob

I just finished the book while on vacation.
To summarize my impressions: Spectacular!
This is not just a baseball book, but everything about it is baseball.
Mr. Hirsch has captured the essence of Willie Mays as a player, the skills with which he played the game, and the respect for the game which he learned from others.
The author also provides and vividly captures Willie's place in the history of the game. The book provides an ability to see the player in a game that was not the same one before Willie played, is not the same one now, but argues persuasively that not matter how the game transitioned, Willie Mays played it as well, or better than anyone.
What is terribly moving in the book is the ability of it to capture the societal issues that surrounded Willie Mays and Black Americans both on and off the field, and how Willie lived his life within those societal issues.
The stark realism and contrasts are provocative, from the criticism directed to him by Jackie Robinson to his inability to buy a home is San Francisco.
This ongoing aspect to the book is so plainly described when Willie is invited to play golf at a Country Club. As he arrives, two white members are heard asking who is the "N?"
Upon learning it is Willie, they chase after him to get his autograph.
I have certainly read many books that are able to capture, with words, the elegance with which the talents allowed the game to be played.
What I found truly unique and loved about this one is Mr. Hirsch's and Mr. Mays' ability to place Willie's skills, ability and production into an historical baseball context while providing a contemporaneous assessment of a Black person and player in a world that reflected the social issues in which the game was being played and life was being lived.