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Winter versus Summer velocity

GM Gingerbread Man500+ posts
Was at a camp recently with about 30 of the kids in the pitching part with kids from 12-18 years of age. Most of the kids were high school age. I was a little surprised on the radar readings. It was my first camp (end of December- Christmas break) that I have ever went to. I know some of the kids and was surprised on their readings. I don't know whats normal for this time of year but was surprised that none of the big juniors or seniors could hit 80mph. There were two who hit 78 and one who hit 79 but none higher than that. Is that normal for winter and not throwing much? I know some of the kids threw on guns last summer that were at slightly higher velocity. Is there that much difference for winter versus summer, or is it just the difference in guns?
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CADadCADad5,000+ posts
What gun was used in the summer and what gun was used at the camp? If the kids haven't been throwing at all, and I'd be surprised if that was universally the case, then lower velocity wouldn't be a surprise.

Another variable can be the situation. Most college camps measure the velocities in a game situation and most kids won't throw as hard knowing they need to throw strikes as they will when throwing for velocity.

A Stalker will usually read 1 to 2 mph slower than a JUGS gun on the same pitch.

What were the conditions like? Cold weather and wind won't affect a radar gun reading but they will affect the pitchers and you'll likely get lower velocities in poor conditions.
Last edited by CADad
BOFBOF10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
I know some of the kids and was surprised on their readings.


Was this the first time they were actually gunned and surprised by the numbers or had they been gunned before and the readings dramatically dropped?

Most kids (proabably Dad) are surprised at their actual velocity. (HSBBW's "Dad - 7 rule")
GM Gingerbread Man500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BOF:
quote:
Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
I know some of the kids and was surprised on their readings.


Was this the first time they were actually gunned and surprised by the numbers or had they been gunned before and the readings dramatically dropped?

Most kids (proabably Dad) are surprised at their actual velocity. (HSBBW's "Dad - 7 rule")


I believe that some were surprised as I was that their velocity wasn't at least what they were throwing at several months ago. For me I was a little surprised that the big juniors and seniors (6'4'' 200lbs) were only throwing in the 73-78 range with one throwing at 79. We had two kids from our team throwing 70-72 mph as 14 year old 8th graders one of which was my son. I wasn't really surprised with their numbers knowing they hadn't thrown in a few months but it was mostly the bigger kids who surprised me as not showing bigger numbers.

Perhaps I am all too knew at this, but it seems to me that some of those juniors and seniors should have been throwing a few more mph on the gun- perhaps 78-82 or so.
GM Gingerbread Man500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
GBman,
I guess it goes back to they haven't been throwing lately then. I'd expect small increases over that time period simply from growth and maturity. Were the mounds decent?


I was expecting at least a few mph gain since they have grown and matured physically. Instead it was a drop. Perhaps it was just the difference in guns or not throwing in a while. The mounds were good artificial mounds. No one really complained about the mounds.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Actually you will find most pitchers velo down in winter, especially if they haven't prepared properly or enough, but that's ok if the velo is lower, because trying to throw your hardest when not prepared (and cold) can be a recipe for disaster. This should be the time when pitchers are just beginning their preparation for spring (tossing). Especially in colder climates where they do not begin until later (here in FL they are getting ready for Feb games). Regaining higher velocity after a lay off takes a while to recover.

Why would it surprise you that kids that most likely put in more innings than 14 year olds not have the same velo they did when they were in their best shape for summer/fall?

This is why we never sent ours to a camp/showcase in winter (only one and he wasn't at his best), if you are not well prepared, unless you are there to pick up some instruction, why bother.
JMO.
GM Gingerbread Man500+ posts
quote:
Actually you will find most pitchers velo down in winter, especially if they haven't prepared properly or enough, but that's ok if the velo is lower, because trying to throw your hardest when not prepared (and cold) can be a recipe for disaster. This should be the time when pitchers are just beginning their preparation for spring (tossing). Especially in colder climates where they do not begin until later (here in FL they are getting ready for Feb games). Regaining higher velocity after a lay off takes a while to recover.

Why would it surprise you that kids that most likely put in more innings than 14 year olds not have the same velo they did when they were in their best shape for summer/fall?

This is why we never sent ours to a camp/showcase in winter (only one and he wasn't at his best), if you are not well prepared, unless you are there to pick up some instruction, why bother.
JMO.

Forget the potholes in the road and celebrate the journey instead...anonymous


I guess I was expecting the older kids to throw harder than they did. Was just wondering if it may have been a cold weather issue or not throwing much or even a difference in guns.
BOFBOF10,000+ posts
You would be surprised at the actual velocities of many HS pitchers. As has been posted here many many times a typical Varsity pitcher is around 80, and I have seen a lot at sub 80. We had big 6'5" kid throwing 80-81 all last year and he led our league in ERA, sub 2, I think 1.5 ish. This was in very competitive SoCal.

That said your top flight kids will be 85-86, and the elite will be high 80's+.

TPM is right that you will see a drop off from kids who have not been throwing regularly. Small timing differences can make a big difference in velocity and they were probably not in throwing condition. I would not be surprised to see a 4MPH jump in kids who have not been throwing regularly.
J jdfromfla100+ posts
I'm with TPM on this one.
My son went to yearly winter camps (7 total) and everyones velo was always down. It was a factor of mostly listening to instruction all day and not getting enough pen before having to perform Then when it was time to throw your session, the coaches are trying to see everyone so it tends to be machine like (Get in make your pitches and get out) and it is just real difficult to get in a groove like that.
We understood this going in and worked towards getting the good things we could out of the camp and didn't worry about velo for the camp (Heck we got such intangibles as getting to meet and talk to Jon Papelbon and his brothers..he gave an excellent lecture on pitch selection and setting up a pitch..we met his future college coach at one..many pros and some very inspirational and informative lectures).
Last edited by jdfromfla
GM Gingerbread Man500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BOF:
You would be surprised at the actual velocities of many HS pitchers. As has been posted here many many times a typical Varsity pitcher is around 80, and I have seen a lot at sub 80. We had big 6'5" kid throwing 80-81 all last year and he led our league in ERA, sub 2, I think 1.5 ish. This was in very competitive SoCal.

That said your top flight kids will be 85-86, and the elite will be high 80's+.

TPM is right that you will see a drop off from kids who have not been throwing regularly. Small timing differences can make a big difference in velocity and they were probably not in throwing condition. I would not be surprised to see a 4MPH jump in kids who have not been throwing regularly.


Ok, so I was probably seeing correct readings on arms that hadn't seen much conditioning for this camp or time of year. We live in extremely cold conditions in winter around here (-15 just the other day) and the only throwing that people get in the winter is where they have access to a gym or wharehouse indoors.
birdman14birdman141,000+ posts
I am not a huge fan of trying to throw at maximum velocity during the winter, particularly being from the Northeast. I have seen it during our high school season -- kids throwing 83-85 during April are throwing 86-88 during June. There are just not enough warm days to throw and long toss to build arm strength. That being said the average HS fastball is around 80. Maybe your camp just had a bunch of average kids. Also, comparing the readiness of pitchers from GA and Idaho is just not fair.
Last edited by birdman14

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