Wood bats at showcases

I believe the reason they want the players to use wood bats is to make the form and mechanics of hitting visible to the scouts there. I agree that it would be unlikely that many would be drafted to the Majors based on there ability to hit with a wood bat. Wood bats are not as forgiving as the metal bats and therefore require you to use the proper mechanics. Most college scouts like to see the hitting mechanics (good or bad) and do not really concentrate on how far the ball is hit.

Simple. Because you can hit a ball well with a metal/composite bat with a cra p p y swing. Coaches are only going to see you for a short period of time and they are looking for the best players. To specifically answer your question, if you can hit well with wood you have a better chance of hitting well in college.

BTW most scout, and higher level tournaments are now all wood. My son put his metal bat in the bag at the end of HS season and he just picked it back up for the first time this month for HS winterball.

I was talking to a D1 head coach this summer who is considered a hitting guru, and he essentially said the same thing that eric and BOF did.

quote:

BTW most scout, and higher level tournaments are now all wood. My son put his metal bat in the bag at the end of HS season and he just picked it back up for the first time this month for HS winterball

My son only plays metal in HS, everything else is wood. He Loves It! And the DII's recruiting him are wood also.

The reason they use wood bats is to make money from their wood bat sponsors.

95% of the players will never use a wood bat anyways unless you play in a wood bat collegiate conference which their aren't many anyways.

Since 1987, our 1st year of the Area Code Games 100% of the players involved with the AC games and International Goodwill Series in Australia used wood bats.

During the AC games and Goodwill Series the players did not pay for the bats. Many colleges use wood in the Fall. Marin HS will use wood again this year.

There are over 200 Collegiate Summer Leagues using wood bats and over 4,000 players participating.

Bob Williams

quote:

The reason they use wood bats is to make money from their wood bat sponsors.

95% of the players will never use a wood bat anyways unless you play in a wood bat collegiate conference which their aren't many anyways.

UticaBrewers,

There is much more sponsorship money spent by metal bat manufacturers. In fact, our major sponsor is Rawlings and they advertise their metal bat on our website and in our programs/media guides. They never spend much on advertising/sponsorship with their wood bats. Yet we don't allow their metal bat to be used at PG events.

100% of those playing in PG events will use wood bats. I think scouts, college recruiters, and the players like it that way. For the reasons others have stated.

Exactly Bob. The reason AC players use wood bats is because an organization or area guy refered them to be there. Which ever organization invited them wanted to see them with a wood bat.

PG Staff:

I have covered your events before and I have seen other wood bat brands being represented, for example, "Old Hickory". It's a good way to make money when you have 14/15/16 year olds that aren't used of swinging wood. They'll break a bat, then Dad runs over to the stand and spends $100 on a new wood bat. I've seen it happen and actually we have all joked about it before.

In the past, when I would cover a collegiate game or am at a scout day and I want to see a guy swing wood, I ask. That's changed now with the BBCOR bats.

Im not condeming you guys for trying to turn a profit, but lets be honest, it's a little bit of both: yes, it's a neat experience for the kids to swing wood and we can make money on it since all of our events around the country are wood bat like you said. It's smart an your end.

quote:

Im not condeming you guys for trying to turn a profit, but lets be honest, it's a little bit of both: yes, it's a neat experience for the kids to swing wood and we can make money on it since all of our events around the country are wood bat like you said. It's smart an your end.

Utica,

OK. Lets be honest. It might be true that there is some profit involved... The reason we use wood bats has absolutely nothing to do with profit.

We have used wood bats "only" from the very first year of PG. There were no wood bat vendors at those events the first 7 or 8 years. In fact, back then there were only a couple companies that made wood bats. It wasn't very popular at the time.

UticaBrewersGM.

I am not sure what planet you live on, but every top HS player I know uses wood all summer and fall. The ONLY time they go back to metal/composite/whateverisapproved by HS / is during HS season.

My son put his metal bat down the last swing he took in HS last May and has been playing with his wood bat ever since. He is just now starting to use it as he gets ready for HS season....which by the way the bat he (me) own's is illegal and now we are forced to purchase something new. It would be much cheaper to just keep using his wood bat.

This has nothing to do with money EXCEPT that the bat companies keep working hard to keep the college and HS baseball world using their products.

You are barking up the wrong tree my friend.

UtBrew,

I always wanted my sons to swing wood bats to demonstrate their ability to hit a baseball properly, not for any neat experience. If they were late and got jammed, the bat exploded in their hands. The only way to truly define a hitter is with wood. They are both better hitters for playing in wood bat leagues and only training with wood bats.

The only places you find metal bats being used today is in HS and NCAA baseball (which is because of the sponsorship dollars they dump into college baseball). Most summer leagues and showcases are wood for the reason I stated above.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
PG Staff:

I have covered your events before and I have seen other wood bat brands being represented, for example, "Old Hickory". It's a good way to make money when you have 14/15/16 year olds that aren't used of swinging wood. They'll break a bat, then Dad runs over to the stand and spends $100 on a new wood bat. I've seen it happen and actually we have all joked about it before.
QUOTE]

That's funny, I don't recall a PG Staff member forcing me to buy "Old Hickory" bats at PG events. Sounds like poor planning on that father OR maybe he CHOOSES to purchase "Old Hickory" bats.

As for profit, that's the lifeblood of any orgainization. That's how you spur innovation and improvement. You should know that.

Agree with BOF. Son uses wood from June through January, occasionally using metal if the tournament dictates that during the summer.

Personally, I love the wood bat tournaments. Maybe it's because my son is primarily a pitcher, but I love the sound of the ball coming off a wood bat. I would not be opposed to wood bats being used in HS and NCAA.

As far as PG goes, I appreciate them having a wood bat vendor there. If a bat breaks, there is somewhere to pick one up quick. And I, personally, have never seen a wood bat vendor selling them for $100. The Old Hickory's are $75. I have been to some events where they have multiple bat vendors, and I wish they would do that at all events. I have seen Old Hickory, D-Bat and the Perfect Game (I think that's what they are) bats. My son likes the D-Bats and they are only $35 for Ash. He actually really liked the Ash. He broke it after a couple of months and we were looking forward to buying another when we went to the PG Underclass Main in Ft. Myers. Unfortunately, only Old Hickory was there, so we bought one of them. Take note, they also sell bats that have some kind of cosmetic blemish that are only like $35 as well. It's really not a bad idea.

Like I said, I like having the convenience of getting one on site, just in case. I don't know how much PG makes off the sales, but I really don't care.

I was more interested in the competition, the exposure and how my sons performed than whether someone needed a new bat, wanted a hot dog or bought a t-shirt from a vendor that paid to be there.

I agree with Baseballdad1228 and others, playing with wood is a true measure of just how good a hitter is.

Just for the record, Old Hickory will replace, at no charge, a bat that brakes during the event it is purchased at with a copy of the receipt.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
UticaBrewersGM.

I am not sure what planet you live on, but every top HS player I know uses wood all summer and fall. The ONLY time they go back to metal/composite/whateverisapproved by HS / is during HS season.

My son put his metal bat down the last swing he took in HS last May and has been playing with his wood bat ever since. He is just now starting to use it as he gets ready for HS season....which by the way the bat he (me) own's is illegal and now we are forced to purchase something new. It would be much cheaper to just keep using his wood bat.

This has nothing to do with money EXCEPT that the bat companies keep working hard to keep the college and HS baseball world using their products.

You are barking up the wrong tree my friend.

Interesting you are taking such a personal aggressive approach to my opinion and I dont quite understand it at all.

You said it yourself. "every top hs player i know"

YES your right, being they have a chance to play pro ball they should use wood. 95% of the other players won't use wood cause they won't go pro or play at a high level collegiate summer league.

Im giving you a scouts perspective, this is what I do for a living. I am not just giving you an outsiders opinion. I have never heard any of my close friends that coach in college say, "wow, he can hit but in order for me to offer a scholarship, I need to see him hit with wood". It's irrelevent.

It's more relevant for me to see the top 5% of players hit with wood. If I was at your son's pre game BP and I liked him, I may then ask to see him hit with wood. If you are filling out MLB questionares, then you should hit with wood being there's a chance he may get invited to some pre draft workouts. If he's just a regular hs player or slightly above average hs player looking to go to college there's no sense in putting a major stress on hitting with wood all the time.

Do you see where im going with this?

UticaBrewersGM
Here in Northern California, nearly all sophomore/junior/senior high school baseball players use primarily wood in the summer time. The guys who fall into the 5% group who may get drafted some day typically start playing in wood bat tournaments at 13 or 14.

Maybe it's just false bravado, or maybe it's just the fashion, or maybe the 95% group just want to emulate the 5% group. But there's more wood than metal.

I'm just a Dad but I do know that my son, who is an average HS player, prefers playing with wood. For a few reasons, First because of the smaller sweet spot eliminating cheap hits it separates the real hitters from the rest of the pack, Second as a pitcher it allows him to pitch inside, Third as an outfielder who loves to track down balls wood keeps the ball in the park.
He prefers to use wood at Showcases because he thinks if he makes solid contact with wood the people watching will notice. If this assumption is wrong and you think he would be better suited using metal please let me know.

UticaBrewersGM.

Not trying to be personal, just responding to the fact that you thought some organizations were using wood for financial reasons. All I am saying is that all scout ball games, all Connie Mack games, all PG events, all Area Code events, all Arizona Fall events, all USA baseball identification events; EVERY event that my son went to for college scouting purposes was using wood. For you to insinuate that it was for a profit from one organization, and for you to say you do this for a living makes me believe that you are not who you say you are or you are new to this or something else is wrong with your story - it just does not add up. Remember this is the Internet so no one really knows the background of any poster; some new ones come here with an agenda to attack so I am not trying to be personal but it just seems odd and challenging you a bit since it does not add up.

I don’t pretend to be an expert at this just what I have witnessed as my son moved through the college recruiting process. Every college coach I have talked to, not a lot, but at least 10-15 has said that they get a better idea of a kid’s capability in a short period of time with wood bats. The only event that I can remember over the past three years using non-wood was the USA Baseball 16U championships. One other comment, the last time I checked colleges were recruiting the top 5% of players. My son has filled out a couple of pro questionnaires and I don’t recall any questions being asked if you “hit with wood” or any thing else. I do agree with you however that a scout will look at a kid’s swing and have a pretty good idea on his capabilities regardless of what bat he has in his hands…probably more so with the pros since you guys do this for a living. With BBCOR (trying to be more like wood) it seems to me the college coaches appreciate seeing wood events. OK I am done, I will step off the box, peace.

"and for you to say you do this for a living makes me believe that you are not who you say you are or you are new to this or something else is wrong with your story - it just does not add up. Remember this is the Internet so no one really knows the background of any poster; some new ones come here with an agenda to attack so I am not trying to be personal but it just seems odd and challenging you a bit since it does not add up."

That does sound personal actually and I am giving you a professional opinion.

Here's a few newspaper article to prove a point:

http://www.myhometownsports.net/article.php?id=2892

http://www.uticaod.com/sports/...o-join-Utica-Brewers

If you want any videos of some of the guys I've signed this year I can send those too if you like

I deal with college coaches on a day to day basis since I sign their players. I disagree with almost everything you say.

When we sign all our players and when I make my rounds to do reports on all of our players to send into the bureau I have never said, "can really swing it but didn't see him hit with wood". It's either he can hit or he can't, has gap to gap power potential or 50 future power or whatever needs to be said.

As for the profit part, the PG guy even said there is some profit involved! All those events you named are pretty much geared for professional prospects, so YES they will hit with wood. That gets back to the point that the average hs prospect or slightly above average shouldn't put a big stress on wood.

Quite impressive credentials Joe. I have often wondered why some colleges hold "Showcase Tournaments" at their schools that are wood bat events. My guess is that there is a "sponsoring" travel team that is basically renting the field and calling it the "University of _______ Woodbat Showcase Tournament".

I think the Woodbat is just kind of the "in" thing to do in the travel baseball world these days.

I do believe what you are saying from a scouting perspective. I am in no position to question that.

Hey, Joe...

I played against you at Florida Southern and at University of Florida back in the day. All I can say is that I wish we were using wood back then!

Utica,

Are you Joe Arnold?

quote:

Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
That gets back to the point that the average hs prospect or slightly above average shouldn't put a big stress on wood.

Agreed, I think we are talking about symantics here, we are not talking about "average HS prospects". We are talking about kids who will play in college. All of the events I listed have both pro and college scouts at them. They are all wood so any HS player looking to play in college HAS to swing wood, pure and simple. This site is not for the average HS player it is for kids who want to play in college or beyond. It really is not that big of a deal since they all are swinging wood bats anyway.

OK so you are not some TROLL out to get PG. Good. Welcome.

My son played for Joe Arnold last season. It is great to know he is still in the game! We had a great year at Polk being coached by Skip!

Utica,

You have a PM.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
This site is not for the average HS player it is for kids who want to play in college or beyond.

Wow, I have to disagree strongly on that one. I have gathered quite a bit of helpful info from this site for our HS program that has little to do with players looking to advance. I do agree it is a fantastic resource for them, particularly, but would not stop there.

OK, point taken cabbage.

The header on the site is. (So your point is recognized)


"The HS Baseball Web is an Internet home for high school baseball players, parents, coaches and fans.


However the focus of the site is: (and most of us ended up here because of this)


What will you find here? Articles about college baseball recruiting, scholarships, and the MLB draft, interviews with college coaches and pro scouts, recruiting "how to", links to other baseball resources, camps and showcases, and a "world famous" message board (baseball forums).

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
I think the Woodbat is just kind of the "in" thing to do in the travel baseball world these days.

It's the in thing to do because that is how the real game of baseball is played. Mine began playing with wood at a young age, even before it was the "in" thing to do. I, like most parents wanted son to learn to play the game that way, and I am sure it has made lots of players better due to this, or at least identified them. What's the issue?

JMO, Utica should be happy they use wood at these tournies, it should help make his job easier, wouldn't you agree?

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
I think the Woodbat is just kind of the "in" thing to do in the travel baseball world these days.

It's the in thing to do because that is how the real game of baseball is played. Mine began playing with wood at a young age, even before it was the "in" thing to do. I, like most parents wanted son to learn to play the game that way, and I am sure it has made lots of players better due to this, or at least identified them. What's the issue?

JMO, Utica should be happy they use wood at these tournies, it should help make his job easier, wouldn't you agree?

TPM, I'm not saying I don't like wood bats. I have often said that I love wood bat tournaments. All I was saying in the above quoted post was I often wonder why colleges hold wood bat tournaments. Their players will not use wood bats. I would think they would be more interested in how a kid will hit with what he is going to use when he gets to their program. That's all I'm saying. My comment about it being the "in" thing to do had to do with the speculation that travel teams are actually putting the tournament on, not the school. These travel teams use the "Wood Bat" tournament to attract teams.

So, my whole point was just wondering why college coaches would prefer to see wood bats at their events.

Personally, I love wood bats and think every level should go to wood bats. I agree, it is how the real game is played. But, since colleges don't use them, why would they prefer to see kids hit with them?

Hey, I am not disagreeing with what you said.

Bottom line is everyone is out to make a buck in this business, the college coach, the tournament promoters, the instructors, the bat companies the guy who makes a video of your son, the guy who has a recruiting site, the guy who has a throwers program, etc. Everyone.

My point was about calling another other out when everyone essentially does the same thing, makes a living off of us folks.

I am going to make sure if I spend my money, I am going to do it wisely and where it makes sense to get my son the exposure he needs, because most likely he's not in the 5% elite bracket and needs to be seen.

Honestly, do I care if I go to a tournie and there are hundreds and hundreds of scouts and college coaches there to see my son play and he has to use a wood bat? No. If my son breaks his bat and I have to buy another one for $35 is it going to break me at that point? No. BTW, as a pitchers parent, I am just lovin' that wood!

Choose what you do and how you spend wisely, JMO.

I'm late to this thread, I apologize for jumping in. 247son participated in his share of college camps and Perfect Game events/showcases over the last couple of years. Here is a list of a handful of college camps that he attended: UNLV, USC, LMU, UCSD, UCSB, UCR, CSUF, Trosky 25 College Camp...all of these camps utilized metal bats. Two things you can learn from this list...number one, I spent a lot of money on camps/showcases etc... AND number two, most of the west coast schools preferred to see the kids swing the same bats the colleges are swinging. For example, my son's HS team played two college showcase tournaments this winter. BBCOR bats were utilized in both tournaments.

My kid also pitches, so I'd prefer that wood be the preferred tool that is used at all of the events...but it's not how it works, at least on the west coast. Unless of course you're participating in PG events/showcases or other wood bat tournaments/leagues? And No, I'm not going to put that list up!

My son participated at the Harvard baseball camp held this past weekend. 95% of the players used aluminum. I am guessing that none used BBCOR bats. A very strong hitter who used wood on day one was asked by a coach to hit with aluminum on the second day. He pounded the ball with aluminum also. It seems to me that since wood is more similar to BBCOR that college coaches want to see wood bats but surprisingly they didn't. When the few wood bat hitters hit well it was very obvious whereas it wasn't as easy to differentiate aluminum batters' skills, although I am sure that coaches could tell the difference.

Snowcone...what did you think of the camp?

It was OK. There were around 150 players - 50 or so too many. It would have been better if they had been more selective with who attended though I understand the need to make it monetarily worthwhile for Harvard and the other coaches.