Wood vs. Metal in Today's Tribune

The fact is that there has never been a study that has shown that metal causes more injuries than wood

The reason most of us play wood is simple: it makes for a purer and better game

This is a good example of how a slant can give an impression rather than showing a more even handed perspective.

The Illinois State accountant, claims that the number injured is statistically insignificant. However, comparing 1 injury with wood to 5 injuries with metal, means that a person is 4 times more likely to be injured with metal...hardly insignificant.

Also, the article goes on to talk about how there's legislation to outlaw metal for kids under 13. It doesn't point out that most kids that young can't produce bat speed significant enough to cause injury. Also that the youngest kids get the most benefit from metal because of their lack of strength, thereby creating more "successful" players, and keeping more kids interested in the game.

The article reports the metal/wood argument as one that produces greater velocity off the bat, which according to BESR rules, is not the case any longer. If the author had done the homework, he would have realized that the argument is about more sweet spot, and more batters being able to create line drives.

Obviously, I've taken both sides of the metal/wood argument here, but the intent is not to take a stance, but show how the reporting is flawed.

CPLZ

I disagree with your premise about younger kids staying "interested" due to aluminum bats. We played wood as kids, to this day I have never hit with metal, and if taught properly it works without loss of interest.

In fact you would have more "successful" players if they learned to hit with wood from the very outset in T Ball

To be honest, I can't see anything being done in high school until the college game makes the change first.

The point made regarding the cost of breaking a lot of wood bats is rediculous. Lets get real. The kids, with the financial support of their parents are purchasing the bats. You can buy a wood composite that comes with 90-day warranty for $125. They'll last the entire highschool season. Even if they break it, they can buy another while they wait for their replacement. At worst case, you have a very, very small percentage with a $250 cost, almost all with a $125 cost; which is equal to or much less than what we are spending for our kids aluminum bats.

Are there any "baseball" people on the study committee?

Tuzigoot is spot on. With the price of the metal bat's going through the roof right now ($290.00 - $400.00) you can buy a lot of wood bats. I think that using the wood bats will bring some of the kids back down to reality as to their future.

Having spent a good part of the summer watching high level high school age travel teams play with wood, I'm convinced most regular high school players are not capable of handling wood bats. The good travel players are able to adjust and its a great game to watch, however in regular high school games there would be too many 1-0, 2-1 games imo. The talent has to be there to handle wood and there isn't of it in high school baseball. College teams on the other hand are completely different and the game would be enhanced if they went to wood bats.

For one to claim that the exit-speed of a batted ball off a metal v. wood bat is insignificant is not only absurd, but defies all laws of physics. Reference http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats-new/besr.html for a more indepth discussion. Further, the BESR standard is not a measure of exit-speed but simply a laboratory-derived ratio based upon a 66mph swing speed and a 70mph pitch - both well below national high school averages let alone college.

Look...we all know that any test or study can be conducted in such a manner to achieve the desired results and intended conclusions. Let's face it, this whole debate boils down to one thing...$$$$. Do you honestly believe that these bat manufacturers give a **** about the safety of our young ballplayers? It's all about the bottom line and profit margins. There is no way that the bat manufacturing lobby will ever allow the switch to wood without one hell of a legal battle.

Big business v. the well-being of young athletes...you know what side of that fence I'm on.

TR - you forget one thing... when many of us were kids, there was no metal/wood choice - if you wanted to play the game, you swung wood. Period. And kids did succeed and did stay interested because that's all they (we) knew.

Today kids see the difference that metal makes and CPLZ hits it right on the head - it is all about the sweet spot. Metal bats are way more forgiving than wood - all those duck-snort bloop hits go away when you hit with wood. I think players today CAN handle wood, if they get the experience, but the fact of the matter is they don't.

You say "the reason most of us play wood is simple" - where do you play that "most" of you play wood? Most of us here in the Midwest play metal, with a few exceptional tournaments here and there. My own son nearly got lynched by his own travel team when he opted for wood one season - it took a while for him to start producing power again, and nobody - from coaches to parents - appreciated his experiment. His high school coach forbid the use of wood in the batting cages - which made me tempted to forbid the use of the $350 bat for practice... but that's another story!

Another interesting facet - here in the Midwest, 2/3 of our high school season is played before the weather ever gets close to 60 degrees, and yet every metal bat carries a warning about using it below that temperature. So bats are destined to fail. I guess the only consolation is that you know when you buy the bat you're really paying for two - the first one and the inevitable replacement. Although we've found you need two at all times to cover you while you're getting one replaced. It's a racket - oh, wait, that's another sport!

quote:

Originally posted by Bravescoach:

There is no way that the bat manufacturing lobby will ever allow the switch to wood without one hell of a legal battle.

The "bat manufacturing lobby"? I would have to guess that there are people lobbying on both sides, since the folks who produce wood are different than the folks who produce metal... not the actual bats, mind you, but the raw materials.

And as for money, what's to stop the bat manufacturer's from saying "OK - wood it is. But now that top of the line wood model (which will be the only bat junior will want) will cost $400". Not much a consumer could do about it except cough it up, just like we do now for metal.

I read the article and the drift I got was that, for the purpose of the study, they weren't using the real high tech bats, the ones with a softjoint and super hot metal blends, carbon linings, mondo barrels, super light bats that have a huge sweet spot.

Sounds like that study doesn't reflect the reality of what is out there in real games.

I was at Cooperstown for the Fields of Dreams summer tourneys a few years back...200 foot fences and tiny infields vs. a bunch of space age bats. During the home run contest these kids were launching balls well over 300 feet on the main diamond. The folks in the outfield bleachers were diving for cover when these kids (12 year olds) hit line shots into the seats. It was DANGEROUS. Those balls were rockets..sometimes even the shortstops, during games, were gripping at the grounders coming their way...most learned quickly that you had to play that position about ten feet into the outfield to have a chance.

That study seems like it was rigged poorly, they should have used the bats that we see during actual games.

Wood all the way IMO. Makes for a much better game in every respect.

You guys have bats in your belfry.

Baseball will never go back to old fashioned wood bats. Pro baseball will be played with some kind of composite bat some day. Every sport and the equipment for that sport evolves and baseball is no exception. Just think, it won't be long until all the guys who grew up with wood are out of the game and then no one will be talking about it.

Not saying good or bad, just the way it is (or will be)

ps...being on the pitching side of the game, those chicken **** hits off the fist or the end of the metal bats really stink. Nothing like busting a guy and having the ball go into right field for a base hit.

quote:

Originally posted by FastballDad:
You guys have bats in your belfry.

ps...being on the pitching side of the game, those chicken **** hits off the fist or the end of the metal bats really stink. Nothing like busting a guy and having the ball go into right field for a base hit.

Guilty on the first count, and Amen Brother on the second.

MLB has to stay with wood due to the record book.

I know that steroids, the different ball etc. have already made new records questionable. But if they go away from wood, all bets are off.

The pro game will never ever stop using wood. There is no question that wood bats are safer. However as a high school coach, I am not in favor of using wood bats. Our top players wouldn't have much of an adjustment but our others players would not be able to handle the bat consistently.

As a rule of thumb, most hitters can see their hitting ability grow as they become stronger. I think the biggest hitting adjustment is when a player is a junior. Most of these players have hit very well off of freshmen and sophomore pitchers but struggle with the adjustments of varsity pitching. We usually see the difference at the beginning of the junior year to be a 200 point dropoff from the sophomore season. For example if you were a .450 hitter on the sophomore team, you would be a .250 hitter at the beginning of your junior year. With hard work the player will probably hit in the .300 range.

Give a junior or young player a wood bat and that learning curve becomes worse. For a reference point go the IHSA Baseball web site and check out Westminster Christian's batting statistics during the 07 season. They were part of the IHSA wood bat experiment. The batting statistics aren't very good from a quality team that was downstate in Class 'A'
. The site is ...
http://www.ihsa.org/activity/ba/2006-07/1info5.htm

There are some really great points here but I do have to contest:

1 a larger sweet spot does not produce more line drives, line drivers are produced by matching planes
2 I do believe that bat manufactures care about the safety and health of the people who are using their equipment
3 The BESR(Bat Exit Speed Ratio) Certified bats have made a significant difference in the Delineation of hitters vs. non hitters
4 Strength and speed are two different qualities, don't confuse the two.
5 There is no high tech bats, the bats no matter the metal or the handle can not exceed it's certification
6 Lastly, the greatest difference in the metal/wood bat debate, is the ablity of the manufacturer to balance the metal bat.

Just some points to chew on

If a larger sweet spot does not produce more line drives, what does a larger sweet spot do?

Isn't the sweet spot designed so that even if you were slightly off the matching plane, you would still drive the ball, whereas with wood you would not drive the ball?

Isn't the sweet spot designed so that even if you were slightly off the matching plane, you would still drive the ball, whereas with wood you would not drive the ball?

CPLZ, The sweet spot, scientifically labeled as nodes or center of percussion (COP)is where vibrations from the impact will cancel out, and you won't feel any stinging or shaking in your hand. Since little of the bat's energy is lost to vibrations when this spot is hit, more can go to the ball. The node sweet spot differs from the "center of percussion" sweet spot. When a ball hits the node, you don't feel any vibration in your hand. When it hits the center of percussion, your hand doesn't feel any force pushing against it. If less of the bat's energy goes to your hands, more of it can be given to the ball. While a ball may travel further because of an enlarge sweet spot it does not ensure that more line drives would be hit. The larger sweet spot allows for a lesser talent player to be more exact at contact. However, line drives are created by swing plane. Remember also the barrel size is regulated not to exceed that of a wood bat.

I coach a team that participated in the study, and I see both sides of the argument. The aluminum bat is no doubt more exciting for lovers of offense. We hit over 35 home runs as a team, then with the same group of kids and wood bats, we only hit 11. However, I felt the wood bat game was more a test of skill and fundamentals, not just gorilla ball. The gap between good and bad teams is decreased and all defensive mistakes and walks are magnified because you may only get 2 or 3 opportunities to score during a game.

I found that at first, nobody could hit with the wood bats. Even the best hitters in our league were struggling to hit with the wood. By the end of the year, most of the kids on the field could hit with the wood.

If the IHSA is going to make the switch, which it does not sound like it will, they need to grandfather it in. Don't just make kids who have been swinging aluminum start swinging wood all of a sudden. If they start it at the lower levels and then bring it two the varsity level after two years, it will be a much smoother transition so that varsity players will have been swinging wood for two years at the freshman and sophomore levels.