What would be a reasonable workload for a high school pitcher?
I realize there are many variables but just looking for a general rule of thumb…. Days between starts and pitches per outing.
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quote:Originally posted by hsplayer:
What would be a reasonable workload for a high school pitcher?
I realize there are many variables but just looking for a general rule of thumb…. Days between starts and pitches per outing.
I wouldn't push a HS starter more than a MLer, so 5 days between starts and a pitch count of 100 or so pitches.
If you're smart, you'll push for more time between outings and fewer pitches per outing.
The problem is that many HS pitchers are ridden much harder than ML pitchers.
Every kid is different. Is he a sr or freshman? How strong is he how hard has he trained?
Four days rest for starters is a good rule to stick with
Depending on the time of the year and where you are in the season a pitch count is also a good idea. Early in the year around 50-60. Later in the year 85-95.
An important thing to look at is pitches per inning. Sometimes a kid can max out what he needs to throw in an inning but he has not reached a pitch limit for the game. I believe that it is very important to limit the amount of pitches in a inning a kid can throw. Especially early in the year.
And does he play other posistions for the hs team? Is he taking ground balls in practice , throwing from a posistion , throwing pens , pitching in games etc. Its important to make sure they are on a solid routine between starts that is not interrupted by being a posistion player and the demands of being a posistion player.
Maybe too much information here. We play 24 regular season games. And then the playoff. Our pitchers are generally in the 50-55 inning range by the playoffs.
Now depending on how many pitchers your sons hs team uses this can go way up. And the better a guy is the more likely it is his innings will greater by the end of the year. The most important thing is proper program between starts and proper rest between starts. Good luck
Four days rest for starters is a good rule to stick with
Depending on the time of the year and where you are in the season a pitch count is also a good idea. Early in the year around 50-60. Later in the year 85-95.
An important thing to look at is pitches per inning. Sometimes a kid can max out what he needs to throw in an inning but he has not reached a pitch limit for the game. I believe that it is very important to limit the amount of pitches in a inning a kid can throw. Especially early in the year.
And does he play other posistions for the hs team? Is he taking ground balls in practice , throwing from a posistion , throwing pens , pitching in games etc. Its important to make sure they are on a solid routine between starts that is not interrupted by being a posistion player and the demands of being a posistion player.
Maybe too much information here. We play 24 regular season games. And then the playoff. Our pitchers are generally in the 50-55 inning range by the playoffs.
Now depending on how many pitchers your sons hs team uses this can go way up. And the better a guy is the more likely it is his innings will greater by the end of the year. The most important thing is proper program between starts and proper rest between starts. Good luck
Most teams have three main starters and then the bullpen. Some have a designated closer and some do not. Teams will play up to three games per week so each starter will typically get one start per week. Early in the season our coach limits starters to approximately 50-70 pitches (depending on the pitcher) Later in the season he will let them finish a game or up to 100 pitches or so. (I have seen 110 a couple of times)
Once league play starts the number 1 & 2 get most of the innings and our number 3 gets the “Saturday starts” which are typically non league games. Everyone else gets the scraps. Most Varsity teams will play between 25-30 games in season plus playoffs. Lower level teams play 20-25 games.
Here are the pitchers/inning/pitches from a 22 game Frosh schedule from last year.
1- 66 - 1011
2- 32 – 612
3- 22 – 345
4- 16 - 245
5- 6 - 144
6- 4 - 84
As you can see our number one got the lion share of innings and pitched a reasonable 1,000 pitches for the season. There was not a clear number 2 so their starts varied.
Coach May has pointed out in the past that most freshmen have never practiced and thrown every day - so early in the season they may have sore/stiff arms. If your son is a Freshmen (or any age actually) get him throwing before practice starts. If he is a pitcher he should be long tossing 2-3 x’s per week right now and building up his arm strength.
Once league play starts the number 1 & 2 get most of the innings and our number 3 gets the “Saturday starts” which are typically non league games. Everyone else gets the scraps. Most Varsity teams will play between 25-30 games in season plus playoffs. Lower level teams play 20-25 games.
Here are the pitchers/inning/pitches from a 22 game Frosh schedule from last year.
1- 66 - 1011
2- 32 – 612
3- 22 – 345
4- 16 - 245
5- 6 - 144
6- 4 - 84
As you can see our number one got the lion share of innings and pitched a reasonable 1,000 pitches for the season. There was not a clear number 2 so their starts varied.
Coach May has pointed out in the past that most freshmen have never practiced and thrown every day - so early in the season they may have sore/stiff arms. If your son is a Freshmen (or any age actually) get him throwing before practice starts. If he is a pitcher he should be long tossing 2-3 x’s per week right now and building up his arm strength.
I could respond on several levels here but I'll just make a brief observation since I am quite new to this forum.
I noticed you all are from the south and being from the north in the snow belt I have to say that because of the weather I think high school pitchers get abused more frequently than the guys in the south. We are constantly making games up and squeezing them in before the scheduled playoffs which results in pitching on short rest and inclement weather. Also teams with pitching staffs that are not deep will use their #1 and #2 on short rest quite regularly.
My son will be #1 in the rotation this year and would kill for a coach that would give him four days rest between games.
I noticed you all are from the south and being from the north in the snow belt I have to say that because of the weather I think high school pitchers get abused more frequently than the guys in the south. We are constantly making games up and squeezing them in before the scheduled playoffs which results in pitching on short rest and inclement weather. Also teams with pitching staffs that are not deep will use their #1 and #2 on short rest quite regularly.
My son will be #1 in the rotation this year and would kill for a coach that would give him four days rest between games.
NPA recommendations for a 12-16 year old
Starter: 75-90 pitches per week, 15-20 per inning
17-21 years old 90-105 per week, 15-20 per inning
Relief 13 and older: 15-45 per game, can be spread over 3 to 5 games per week, not to exceed a total of 90. If 75 total are thrown in any combination of 3 straight days, no mound work for 2-3 days.
Karl Kuhn at UVA uses a method of taking the age of the pitcher, multiplying it x 100, and that number gives you the number of competetive pitches a player should throw in a year. In his years there, they have never had an arm injury for a pitcher.
Starter: 75-90 pitches per week, 15-20 per inning
17-21 years old 90-105 per week, 15-20 per inning
Relief 13 and older: 15-45 per game, can be spread over 3 to 5 games per week, not to exceed a total of 90. If 75 total are thrown in any combination of 3 straight days, no mound work for 2-3 days.
Karl Kuhn at UVA uses a method of taking the age of the pitcher, multiplying it x 100, and that number gives you the number of competetive pitches a player should throw in a year. In his years there, they have never had an arm injury for a pitcher.
quote:Originally posted by hsplayer:
What would be a reasonable workload for a high school pitcher?
I realize there are many variables but just looking for a general rule of thumb…. Days between starts and pitches per outing.
I liked to have my starters go once a week (six days rest). My thoughts on young pitchers are a little different than others...Im not as concerned with pitch count as I am with days of rest in between starts.
We generally played 2 game weeks, with a 3 game week once in a while.
Lots of good guidelines presented above. I believe the Coach Kuhn number for total annual workload is important to keep in mind. A few other thoughts to add to the mix that I have been given over the years, and that have worked for helping keep kids properly rested include:
-- 1 hour of rest for every pitch thrown in competition (20+ pitches means take a day off); and certainly don't go more than 2 days back-to-back.
-- Once a Pitcher reaches muscle fatigue (for an inning, or a game), each subsequent pitch is the equivalent of 3 pitches. Thus: a Pitcher who hits muscle fatigue at 70 pitches, then throws 10 more; has effectively thrown 100 pitches -- 70 + (10 x 3) = 100.
-- Figure most youth (18U) pitchers will hit muslce fatigue within 25 pitches in one inning (or sooner), dependent upon age, strength, conditioning, stress of the game, heat/humidity, etc.
-- 1 hour of rest for every pitch thrown in competition (20+ pitches means take a day off); and certainly don't go more than 2 days back-to-back.
-- Once a Pitcher reaches muscle fatigue (for an inning, or a game), each subsequent pitch is the equivalent of 3 pitches. Thus: a Pitcher who hits muscle fatigue at 70 pitches, then throws 10 more; has effectively thrown 100 pitches -- 70 + (10 x 3) = 100.
-- Figure most youth (18U) pitchers will hit muslce fatigue within 25 pitches in one inning (or sooner), dependent upon age, strength, conditioning, stress of the game, heat/humidity, etc.
good thoughts. THose long innings will get you, especially if it happens more than once. Now, how do you measure, or estimate, accurately, muscle fatigue? Or do you look for mechanical cues that say "he's struggling and running out of gas?"
Good question. I think there are lots of tell tale signs you can look at --
-- beginning to breath heavily, and has to take big deep breaths; can be a sign the system is not getting enough oxygen to feed hungry muscles,
-- slowing in pace of work can also be an indicator that the pitcher is beginning to labor, and that his muscles (and maybe his mind) are not getting what they need to keep performing at peak,
-- I think the first indicator though is loss of balance and posture (the first mechanic); when the body is fatigued, the first thing you lose is the ability to repeat, or hold a firm, strong posture. In my expeirence you see balance and posture break down before you see other obvious signs of mechanical breakdown.
For what it's worth.
-- beginning to breath heavily, and has to take big deep breaths; can be a sign the system is not getting enough oxygen to feed hungry muscles,
-- slowing in pace of work can also be an indicator that the pitcher is beginning to labor, and that his muscles (and maybe his mind) are not getting what they need to keep performing at peak,
-- I think the first indicator though is loss of balance and posture (the first mechanic); when the body is fatigued, the first thing you lose is the ability to repeat, or hold a firm, strong posture. In my expeirence you see balance and posture break down before you see other obvious signs of mechanical breakdown.
For what it's worth.
