Wow, a non-virus high school baseball topic

I know a coach trying to do this in FL. He has a young HS team and is really pressuring the freshman. A couple of these kids are on top 5 teams according to PG. They would get nothing out of playing summer ball for him. He would certainly benefit as he would have big name draws. 

My question would be, is the coach limiting his summer team to only the kids from the HS? Highly unlikely

In Texas HS baseball coaches are not allowed to coach any players during the summer that are (or will be entering) their HS program. 

TerribleBPthrower posted:

adbono posted:

In Texas HS baseball coaches are not allowed to coach any players during the summer that are (or will be entering) their HS program. 

I was talking with a couple of the parents during hitting lessons. One of the kids has played for the same travel coach for years and is now being pressured to make the switch. The dad is considering bringing it to the AD to get his thoughts. 

Texas UIL doesn’t get much right but maybe they got lucky on this one. There is often friction between HS coaches and travel ball coaches. Obvious conflict of interest exists when HS HC can dictate that his players play Summer ball for him. Especially if he isn’t that good of a coach to begin with and can’t provide the same benefits as established travel programs. 

The players that transferred are legit Power 5 players. It would be a disservice to keep them from playing in Jupiter, etc...  

Stories like this are great. He thinks he won, but 5 years from now when he has no decent players coming his way that will not be the case.

A local private school coach does this. The better players realized they didn't need to play for him. When he pushed back they told him that there were 6 other privates within a 20 minute drive that would love to have them. Now he scares parents of younger players into believing playing time is related to the summer team and charges double to make up for the loss of the wiser, more talented players. They are still good, but they are being caught up to by the other local privates who make the school summer team optional. 

I'm sure those running the school do not like to see this in the news. But I'm also sure they don't mind a very good baseball program which attracts tuition.. I mean bright, talented scholar athletes. I said bright, talented scholar athletes. 

Could never fly at a public, but with no board of ed or superintendent to answer to it goes. I wish the players well and I would imagine losing 5 D1 guys would kill any team anywhere. 

This Gibbs guy is trying to put lipstick on a pig. I know his type, he is a control junkie, he doesn't give a damn about the kids, only how the kids can benefit his program, he will spin everything to be about the greater good and program...This one is going to end ugly one of these days. Maybe now maybe later but guys like this are never satisfied and he will push more and harder till it breaks. 

and this guy running PBR events out of his "personal private HS facility" yea he isn't making any money...he has some powerful people in his pocket at good ole St Johns you can bet your ass on that

I almost never agree with the parent side in those discussions but if the coach makes money with his summer team and prefers players who will play with him it is a clear conflict of interest because he might be willing to hurt his HS team to make more money.

Unfortunately I know first hand this does happen.  A public school, it was "highly encouraged and suggested" that if my son desired a chance to play on his high school team, the best way would to take private lessons, travel ball, work outs/trainings, etc with a specific person or for profit entity.  There were several layers to how they were all connected but it all funneled back to one person.  There was no mention of such things financially benefiting the hs program or staff but an aggressive suggestion that the more "important" people whose opinion matters in evaluating my son as a high school player is to his advantage.  Son's freshman  year, after speaking to a few parents whose kids are currently on the team, I was tempted to bring up certain financial questions during a baseball parents meeting with coaches but was warned by another parent there may be repercussions by questioning anything financial related.  As I said, many layers to hide and confuse what was happening, and I'm sure it will continue.

Ok, so here’s another layer to this. What are your thoughts on a coach giving a kid hitting lessons during the season? Not talking about coaching him up during BP. I’m talking about a full hitting lesson on their own time for which the coach charges the player. 

TerribleBPthrower posted:

My question would be, is the coach limiting his summer team to only the kids from the HS? Highly unlikely

He does get a few kids from other schools. One of the partners coaches for another private HS in the area. Not too many kids outside of the program (HS, partner's HS, and travel org) are flocking to play for that travel team.

ABSORBER posted:

TerribleBPthrower posted:

My question would be, is the coach limiting his summer team to only the kids from the HS? Highly unlikely

He does get a few kids from other schools. One of the partners coaches for another private HS in the area. Not too many kids outside of the program (HS, partner's HS, and travel org) are flocking to play for that travel team.

I think I would find another school for my son. I don’t know how it could be a good experience if there is a gun to your head 

TerribleBPthrower posted:

Ok, so here’s another layer to this. What are your thoughts on a coach giving a kid hitting lessons during the season? Not talking about coaching him up during BP. I’m talking about a full hitting lesson on their own time for which the coach charges the player. 

On one hand, as a former HS coach, I couldn't imagine charging a kid in my own program for lessons.  I also know that on the surface, this just looks wrong and seems a conflict of interest.  In the past, I have argued adamantly on this side of the fence.  I think this is where you will find most posters here sit as well.

On the other hand, i know of several coaches who rely on lessons as part of their off-season/supplementary income.  So, if as example, a coach is part of a facility and has open enrollment for lessons and a kid in his program signs up, is the coach expected to decline or not charge the kid for that slot where he otherwise would be paid for his services?  I've come around to believing, while it's not something I could do, its not that cut-and-dry for everyone.

From a timing standpoint, however, I think your "during the season" scenario factors in.  That adds to the conflict of interest argument and is worse from a perception standpoint.  I never refused a player any individual extra work before/after practice if asked.  

Several years ago my sons' private high school program hired a new varsity coach.  At the same time another coach was developing a travel program and invited several players, including one son, from the high school program.  The Varsity coach got wind of it and had a meeting with ALL varsity families and insisted the kids  stay and play for his legion team in the interest of building team unity.  There really wasn't a financial issue involved.  Still the reality was that the new travel team was going to get better exposure than the legion team ever would, so parents felt like they had to make a choice between the legion team to improve their kids' chances of making varsity or the travel team to improve their sons' chances of playing collegiately. Someone complained about this directly to the school administration which in turn told the coach he could not force any kid to play legion and he couldn't reduce playing time on vars for any kid who chose the travel team.  An immediate crisis was avoided because the five best vars players all chose the travel team and there was no way the vars coach was going to reduce those guys' vars playing time.

Ironically, of these five players, only one was a bona fide D1 player and he was also the only one whose experience on the travel team actually led to the D1 offer he accepted.  The other four were strong d3 players and the travel team didn't help them get recruited to the schools they actually ended up at.  They would have been just as successful playing legion and going to a showcase or two.  Legion was $150; the travel team was $2250.

 But the trip was fun.