Wrong to close the Heimlich thread?

No. It wasn't wrong. It was the right decision. 

Nothing good can come from opening the Heimlich thread.  JMO.

Personally I think threads should be closed when they become insulting, when people say Person XYZ you are an idiot and your whole family are idiots and if I meet you in a dark alley one day.....lol...yeah THOSE should be closed and deleted or whatever. 

The Heimlich thread was closed because it made people uncomfortable.  We as a society tend to turn away from things that are personally uncomfortable, they shouldn't be talked about, they should be actively avoided.  HIV was one of these topics where people buried their heads in the sand, spouted misinformation, and most just wanted the topic to go away. It didn't.  

Personally, I didn't see the point in closing the Heimlich thread other than to accommodate the masses that were uncomfortable.

Personally, I think there were, and still are, a lot of relevant issues in this matter. OSU continues to make a run at a title and this story affects that run. It's also a teachable moment concerning recruiting, obligations a school has when recruiting, and how we discuss and deal with this issue with our High School kids who want to play college ball.

Is anyone curious how ESPN deals with the story when they broadcast the Oregon State game. I don't watch anything on ESPN except the sports itself. ESPN has uninformed sportscasters dabbling in politics too often for my taste. I read they've avoided discussion on the subject. I don't know for sure.

Am I missing the update thread? Or was it deleted? I thought there was valuable information (Heimlich's and the OSU president's statements). As of my last viewing I didn't see any issues with the postings.

Certain fiefdoms and factions of this little online community (as well as society in general) will always push to have 'their' personal agenda's accommodated. Happens all day everywhere (lol). Outcomes tend to be reliant upon the views of those with the most power. What's right and wrong tends to make little difference.

No different here than anywhere else!

If you don't like my moderator decisions, please have the courtesy to send me a PM.

It is bad manners to use someone else's forum to criticize the forum.

It is worse manners to make insinuations about fiefdoms, factions, and personal agendas.

I read the whole Heimlich thread. I felt the moderators were right to both allow and then close the discussion. I wasn't uncomfortable but felt the discussion had certainly ceased to cover new ground. I was thankful it was closed and hope the splinter threads get the same treatment.

Ted22 posted:

I read the whole Heimlich thread. I felt the moderators were right to both allow and then close the discussion. I wasn't uncomfortable but felt the discussion had certainly ceased to cover new ground. I was thankful it was closed and hope the splinter threads get the same treatment.

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm really interested in knowing, but why were you happy it was shut down? In what way did it matter to you if the discussion went on without you or not? This isn't meant to be snarky, I just really have a desire to understand other people's though process because, I've seen several threads here that fit this description and I never once even thought about asking that it be shut down or cared one way or the other - I simply stopped reading the thread (mainly the Tebow thread comes to mind).

CaCO3Girl posted:

Personally I think threads should be closed when they become insulting, when people say Person XYZ you are an idiot and your whole family are idiots and if I meet you in a dark alley one day.....lol...yeah THOSE should be closed and deleted or whatever. 

The Heimlich thread was closed because it made people uncomfortable.  We as a society tend to turn away from things that are personally uncomfortable, they shouldn't be talked about, they should be actively avoided.  HIV was one of these topics where people buried their heads in the sand, spouted misinformation, and most just wanted the topic to go away. It didn't.  

Personally, I didn't see the point in closing the Heimlich thread other than to accommodate the masses that were uncomfortable.

When Swampboy closed the thread, he posted his reasons.  Having watched him moderate for a number of years, I find his posts and reasons to be thoughtful, articulate and direct.  I think the same of CD and his efforts.

These are, in my opinion, very thoughtful members and moderators and we are quite lucky to have them.

Swampboy did not list the "masses that were uncomfortable" as a reason. From my perspective,  it is always a good idea to look inward before attributing reasons to  others.

While some have posted to keep these threads alive because of "teachable moments," I am not sure I have seen a post which elaborates  what would be taught and/or how to teach such moments. Yesterday, I posted what I thought was an extremely  thought provoking post game comment by Coach Deggs of SHSU. On balance, my view is the comments of Coach Deggs are 100 times more "teachable" for posters to this board than the OSU/Heimlich issues.  While I was not surprised, I was disappointed the link to his comments went largely unnoticed.  Oh well.

I have no reservations in posting my views which are that making Heimlich or his situation at OSU as  the focus is wrong, just plain wrong.  The focus is that young girl and the impact on her life, including now having, possibly, to relive through current publicity, the experiences which no young girl or boy should ever have happen. Having to read a post which equates her experience to playing "doctor," for instance, is something I hope she never encounters.

CD started this thread with expressions of  forgiveness for Heimlich. I have known CD for quite some time and CD is more than just a poster or moderator for me.  He has been a good friend and private confidant.  I do not sit in judgement of CD's act of forgiveness.

In this circumstance, I feel two things can be equally true. I can be a strident advocate for the young girl without acting in judgement of Heimlich. I am not in any way "uncomfortable" with either.

infielddad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Personally I think threads should be closed when they become insulting, when people say Person XYZ you are an idiot and your whole family are idiots and if I meet you in a dark alley one day.....lol...yeah THOSE should be closed and deleted or whatever. 

The Heimlich thread was closed because it made people uncomfortable.  We as a society tend to turn away from things that are personally uncomfortable, they shouldn't be talked about, they should be actively avoided.  HIV was one of these topics where people buried their heads in the sand, spouted misinformation, and most just wanted the topic to go away. It didn't.  

Personally, I didn't see the point in closing the Heimlich thread other than to accommodate the masses that were uncomfortable.

When Swampboy closed the thread, he posted his reasons.  Having watched him moderate for a number of years, I find his posts and reasons to be thoughtful, articulate and direct.  I think the same of CD and his efforts.

These are, in my opinion, very thoughtful members and moderators and we are quite lucky to have them.

Swampboy did not list the "masses that were uncomfortable" as a reason. From my perspective,  it is always a good idea to look inward before attributing reasons to  others.

While some have posted to keep these threads alive because of "teachable moments," I am not sure I have seen a post which elaborates how what and how to teach.

I have no reservations in posting my views which are that making Heimlich or his situation at OSU as  the focus is wrong, just plain wrong.  The focus is that young girl and the impact on her life, including now having, possibly, to relive through current publicity, the experiences which no young girl or boy should ever have happen. Having to read a post which equates her experience to playing "doctor," for instance, is something I hope she never encounters.

CD started this thread with expressions of  forgiveness for Heimlich. I have known CD for quite some time and CD is more than just a poster or moderator for me.  He has been a good friend and private confidant.  I do not sit in judgement of CD's act of forgiveness.

In this circumstance, I feel two things can be equally true. I can be a strident advocate for the young girl without acting in judgement of Heimlich. I am not in any way "uncomfortable" with either.

Dude, did you read what you posted on the other thread?

Anyway, I've said before that being a moderator is a very tough job, and I'm glad it isn't me.

infielddad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Personally I think threads should be closed when they become insulting, when people say Person XYZ you are an idiot and your whole family are idiots and if I meet you in a dark alley one day.....lol...yeah THOSE should be closed and deleted or whatever. 

The Heimlich thread was closed because it made people uncomfortable.  We as a society tend to turn away from things that are personally uncomfortable, they shouldn't be talked about, they should be actively avoided.  HIV was one of these topics where people buried their heads in the sand, spouted misinformation, and most just wanted the topic to go away. It didn't.  

Personally, I didn't see the point in closing the Heimlich thread other than to accommodate the masses that were uncomfortable.

When Swampboy closed the thread, he posted his reasons.  Having watched him moderate for a number of years, I find his posts and reasons to be thoughtful, articulate and direct.  I think the same of CD and his efforts.

These are, in my opinion, very thoughtful members and moderators and we are quite lucky to have them.

Swampboy did not list the "masses that were uncomfortable" as a reason. From my perspective,  it is always a good idea to look inward before attributing reasons to  others.

While some have posted to keep these threads alive because of "teachable moments," I am not sure I have seen a post which elaborates how what and how to teach.

I have no reservations in posting my views which are that making Heimlich or his situation at OSU as  the focus is wrong, just plain wrong.  The focus is that young girl and the impact on her life, including now having, possibly, to relive through current publicity, the experiences which no young girl or boy should ever have happen. Having to read a post which equates her experience to playing "doctor," for instance, is something I hope she never encounters.

CD started this thread with expressions of  forgiveness for Heimlich. I have known CD for quite some time and CD is more than just a poster or moderator for me.  He has been a good friend and private confidant.  I do not sit in judgement of CD's act of forgiveness.

In this circumstance, I feel two things can be equally true. I can be a strident advocate for the young girl without acting in judgement of Heimlich. I am not in any way "uncomfortable" with either.

I do hope you realized that you just backed up the decision to close the thread for content and then followed that up with further commentary on the subject. You also did so in a reasonable, respectful way, which I believe backs up my point.

To be clear, though, I have no problem with the moderators. I think they generally do a fantastic job. I just don't think they are infallible.

Roothog,

Yes, I understand what I posted there and here.  CD opened this thread with a reference to the prior threads.  I could be wrong but my impression of CD's starting this thread relates to the topic, but from a different angle. I responded accordingly.

infielddad posted:

Roothog,

Yes, I understand what I posted there and here.  CD opened this thread with a reference to the prior threads.  I could be wrong but my impression of CD's starting this thread relates to the topic, but from a different angle. I responded accordingly.

I don't entirely disagree with you. My main point was that the subject was discussed with decorum and I think maybe it was shut down prematurely in anticipation of problems popping up that never did. For the most part, this site is far more civilized than most baseball sites (with the possible exception of the hitting wars a few years ago - the things we can get passionate about). However, all of these side threads keep popping up. If anything needs to be shut down, it's these. Make one thread and let it go as long as no Rules of conduct or etiquette are violated. Heck, the Tebow thread stayed up forever. 

roothog66 posted:

infielddad posted:

Roothog,

Yes, I understand what I posted there and here.  CD opened this thread with a reference to the prior threads.  I could be wrong but my impression of CD's starting this thread relates to the topic, but from a different angle. I responded accordingly.

I don't entirely disagree with you. My main point was that the subject was discussed with decorum and I think maybe it was shut down prematurely in anticipation of problems popping up that never did. For the most part, this site is far more civilized than most baseball sites (with the possible exception of the hitting wars a few years ago - the things we can get passionate about). However, all of these side threads keep popping up. If anything needs to be shut down, it's these. Make one thread and let it go as long as no Rules of conduct or etiquette are violated. Heck, the Tebow thread stayed up forever. 

I think those are fair comments, but they don't persuade me to a different result.

I think your approach puts our moderators in the untenable position of "proving" a negative.  Swampboy made his judgement to close the thread and he provided his reasons.  We won't ever know the direction that thread might have taken had he not made that choice. 

roothog66 posted:

infielddad posted:

Roothog,

Yes, I understand what I posted there and here.  CD opened this thread with a reference to the prior threads.  I could be wrong but my impression of CD's starting this thread relates to the topic, but from a different angle. I responded accordingly.

I don't entirely disagree with you. My main point was that the subject was discussed with decorum and I think maybe it was shut down prematurely in anticipation of problems popping up that never did. For the most part, this site is far more civilized than most baseball sites (with the possible exception of the hitting wars a few years ago - the things we can get passionate about). However, all of these side threads keep popping up. If anything needs to be shut down, it's these. Make one thread and let it go as long as no Rules of conduct or etiquette are violated. Heck, the Tebow thread stayed up forever. 

Quit saying the athlete that shall not be named, actual name...it's bad luck! 

Some notes on moderating:

My job as administrator/moderator is to try to preserve the culture and purpose that make HSBaseballWeb.com different from other sites.

As some members have noted, there aren't clear policies and guidelines. I make a lot of subjective judgments on when to let things ride, when to comment privately, when to prune, and when to use the axe. 

I try to keep a light hand on the reins, intervening only when necessary.

Many times I'm uncertain or conflicted.

Sometimes my own feelings get in the way (though I try to give extra leash to those who disagree with me).

And sometimes the moderators don't agree with each other.

Often I just muddle through and hope I'm right often enough for the net effect of my efforts to be positive. 

I appreciate infieldad's thoughtful comments and it shows there are two side to the issue.  I did not mean to undercut a moderator's decision by starting this thread and I hate when people do that to me with my moderator decisions - none of which are easy. 

I assumed BoltPR closed his own thread due to public disagreement with his posting of a related article.  I did not realize it had become this contentious.  I'll close this thread because I now realize both sides have had their fair say.