Franchise7, it is great you have received letters from colleges as a '10. Just keep it in perspective. A lot of those letters (most but not all) are sent out en masse based on, yes, lists! But you'll undoubtedly receive many, many more when you're a sophomore and junior. It is at that point you'll want to go to one of their camps, and I can tell you you won't have time to go to 30-40 camps! Be proud, but keep it in perspective.
My son was on the All-Embryonic team. I think it's due to early long ball hitting development where he could "go womb". We nearly moved to Tampa where after birth he could have played up to the 2U Tampa Bay Bees.quote:Originally posted by rz1:
To some, October means World Series, to me it means the naming of the the All-Embryonic prospect team. To my surprise the 2007 names were were announced this morning and the team picture was released. These kids keep looking younger and younger and you can tell they have been showcased at some of the best labs in the country and pampered with the finest test tubes and petri dishes money can buy..
Good looking team isn't it. I'm a little disappointed that they still overlook the Northern cells. When will they accept the fact that a frozen embryo in the long run will have a longer shelve life than one that has been constantly under the microscope?
Probably the proudest day of my life was back in 1988 when my "chip off the ol' cell" was named 3rd team on that brisk Autumn morning . The kid didn't have an arm yet, his foot speed was nonexistent, and he just got his duffel bag to hang his bat from and put his balls in. However, those who knew the game saw his size potential, had a good nucleolus to grow on, was not chemically altered, and knew his parental genetic markers that were not passed down were a result of life in the 70's. He had all the tools to be a cell a dad could be proud of.
When I was a league commissioner in LL I would create an opening day program with various pieces of information about the league. In my "letter from the commish" I told parents only about five of the one hundred kids in the league will grow up to be high school varsity players. But with the right approach and nurturing from coaches and parents we can develop one hundred lifetime baseball fans.quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
And I think for the long-term health of the game of baseball we need to keep in mind that the weak LL player who still gains a love for the game through his parents or coach, despite his relative lack of longterm talent, is every bit as important to "America's Game" as the ones on the "lists."
The '10 you referenced has played a year of high school ball and been all-area. An '11 hasn't played high school baseball yet.quote:Originally posted by Franchise7:
All you old guys need to lighten up. 3-up-3-down comes on here with a question and you guys don't even hesitate to say he is bragging. He was explaining why he even asked the question when he mentioned his son did well at the WWBA events.
Also, for those who said that younger players aren't even prospects the first 2010 already signed with University of Florida. Just to let you know. I'm a 2010 and have recieved mail from colleges. My goodness don't consider that bragging, I'm just stating a fact.
They probaly meant an "2011" ? That would make them a freshman in HS this year.
Sorry... That is terrible that a 13 year old boy "HAD TO CHOOSE" to give up a sport he was so talented at. That would make it impossible to make any list in that sport as a freshman or sophomore. That sounds just as bad as someone "decked out in all that $$ gear". It sounds like a lot of pressure too, if you ask me. There are a lot of the top prospects in the country who play two or three sports.
BTW HitaHomer1, here is the link to that list "IT'S FREE" that this thread is about, so no one is "forking over" a dime to see it. So I guess no one will have to get upset and you won't have to worry about that!
2011/14U Top Prospect List
And it's my personal belief that the very best don't quit being the best because of any list. Delmon Young, Lastings Milledge, Justin Upton and hundreds of others were well recognized and on many lists by the time they were 13. I do agree that no one should ever "focus" on any list and give up improving.
There was a freshman shortstop from Ohio who was one of the top “prospects” at last summers East Coast Pro Showcase. Next spring he will be a sophomore player in high school. I really don’t know if it’s good or bad that he is on a “list”, but he has been identified, so everyone can track his progress over the next few years to see how things work out for him.
I agree that lists aren’t all that important, but it’s just a matter of opinion as to how we define a “list”. If a well known top youth program picks up a young player… Isn’t that player on the roster of that recognized team? Isn’t that a “list”? If a kid gets selected to an all star team… Isn’t that a list? All Tournament Team? MVP? Youth National Team? Newspaper article?
I hate to be considered the Anti-Christ or the ruin of baseball because we happen to recognized a few young boys.
The whole thing is kind of confusing to me.
BTW HitaHomer1, here is the link to that list "IT'S FREE" that this thread is about, so no one is "forking over" a dime to see it. So I guess no one will have to get upset and you won't have to worry about that!
2011/14U Top Prospect List
And it's my personal belief that the very best don't quit being the best because of any list. Delmon Young, Lastings Milledge, Justin Upton and hundreds of others were well recognized and on many lists by the time they were 13. I do agree that no one should ever "focus" on any list and give up improving.
There was a freshman shortstop from Ohio who was one of the top “prospects” at last summers East Coast Pro Showcase. Next spring he will be a sophomore player in high school. I really don’t know if it’s good or bad that he is on a “list”, but he has been identified, so everyone can track his progress over the next few years to see how things work out for him.
I agree that lists aren’t all that important, but it’s just a matter of opinion as to how we define a “list”. If a well known top youth program picks up a young player… Isn’t that player on the roster of that recognized team? Isn’t that a “list”? If a kid gets selected to an all star team… Isn’t that a list? All Tournament Team? MVP? Youth National Team? Newspaper article?
I hate to be considered the Anti-Christ or the ruin of baseball because we happen to recognized a few young boys.
The whole thing is kind of confusing to me.
THE TROUBLE WITH LISTS
Not every player is on the list. So players and parents see some people on the list and say "hey I'm as good, or my kid is as good as that guy, and I'm/he is not on the list!"
It does seem to me that these lists from tournaments/showcases, etc. are SOMETIMES used as marketing tools for a specific player. I know PG Staff you have stated that people do not pay to be on lists, and I will take you for your word since this is your profession. I do think in a roundabout way some people do really pay to get on lists indirectly. For instance, if you have paid serious money to be on a high profile or "one of the best teams travel in the nation" are you not indirectly paying to get onto a list. If not, what exactly are you paying for? I mean in the end...(I know it differs from team to team as to what the cost includes and what the entire cost is)...aren't you paying to get on a list? Aren't you traveling around getting people to notice you and have them write your name down on a list so they can track you and do whatever you do with the people on the list? On your site it says New! TOP 1000 2008 HS PROSPECTS (IT IS A LIST)and you do have to pay some kind of subscription to view them.
This is your business and I am not going to come onto a forum you sponsor and criticize. But this is a big business and if these lists are important to you, then the lists will be important to your clients and people will want to go to the places (tournaments/showcases) where they can possibly get on the list. Having said that, I am sure that the lists are held to a very high standard of performance and the grading system I am sure is a good one. Players and their parents can travel all over the place "making lifelong friends and memories" through baseball travel teams, but understand that in order to get on a MLB scouts list you must have MLB Tools (or show promise that you Will have the tools soon) I would think a player and especially parents have to be brutally honest with themselves about that. JMHO
Not every player is on the list. So players and parents see some people on the list and say "hey I'm as good, or my kid is as good as that guy, and I'm/he is not on the list!"
It does seem to me that these lists from tournaments/showcases, etc. are SOMETIMES used as marketing tools for a specific player. I know PG Staff you have stated that people do not pay to be on lists, and I will take you for your word since this is your profession. I do think in a roundabout way some people do really pay to get on lists indirectly. For instance, if you have paid serious money to be on a high profile or "one of the best teams travel in the nation" are you not indirectly paying to get onto a list. If not, what exactly are you paying for? I mean in the end...(I know it differs from team to team as to what the cost includes and what the entire cost is)...aren't you paying to get on a list? Aren't you traveling around getting people to notice you and have them write your name down on a list so they can track you and do whatever you do with the people on the list? On your site it says New! TOP 1000 2008 HS PROSPECTS (IT IS A LIST)and you do have to pay some kind of subscription to view them.
This is your business and I am not going to come onto a forum you sponsor and criticize. But this is a big business and if these lists are important to you, then the lists will be important to your clients and people will want to go to the places (tournaments/showcases) where they can possibly get on the list. Having said that, I am sure that the lists are held to a very high standard of performance and the grading system I am sure is a good one. Players and their parents can travel all over the place "making lifelong friends and memories" through baseball travel teams, but understand that in order to get on a MLB scouts list you must have MLB Tools (or show promise that you Will have the tools soon) I would think a player and especially parents have to be brutally honest with themselves about that. JMHO
Baseball is full of lists.
Hopefully - you wind up on alot of them.
Like the starting lineup card - or the top Ten batting averages - or even a Top Prospect list.
Many of these lists - like a Top Prospect list - are important - especially when produced by an organization like PG - that has a well deserved reputation for accuracy.
Personally - I enjoy reading the lists - and following the kids over the years.
I think the whole list thing is more of a problem with the parents - than it is with the players themselves.
Just my observation.
Hopefully - you wind up on alot of them.
Like the starting lineup card - or the top Ten batting averages - or even a Top Prospect list.
Many of these lists - like a Top Prospect list - are important - especially when produced by an organization like PG - that has a well deserved reputation for accuracy.
Personally - I enjoy reading the lists - and following the kids over the years.
I think the whole list thing is more of a problem with the parents - than it is with the players themselves.
Just my observation.
PG Staff, WOW!
I tried very hard in my post to speak in generalties. There are many, many, many more people than you in this business. You happen to have a very reputable one and everyone on this site holds in high regard. I thought I was making a point about how SOME people view the trouble with lists.
I thought my opening sentence conveyed this.
I will stand by my post, it is just an opinion and an observation about it, and I did not accuse you personally of making a bunch of money off of people. I am sure I will get ripped a new one from all of the people on this forum that have great things to say about you and PG. It was not my intent to make it about you, but the business in general that I am sure you know well. Not all are in the same class as you. I think it is basic human nature, our competivie spirit that drives us to want to be on any list. Get on the list, get to the next level. I think if you will reread my post you will see I took great care in choosing my words trying to deliver my point about what SOME travel teams expect when they embark on the road to get on the list.
You also got angry with me about my take on the DATA from another post, so I will just stay on the lighter side of things when posting from here on out. I sincerely apologize to you as obviously I offended you and that what not my intent.
I tried very hard in my post to speak in generalties. There are many, many, many more people than you in this business. You happen to have a very reputable one and everyone on this site holds in high regard. I thought I was making a point about how SOME people view the trouble with lists.
I thought my opening sentence conveyed this.
I will stand by my post, it is just an opinion and an observation about it, and I did not accuse you personally of making a bunch of money off of people. I am sure I will get ripped a new one from all of the people on this forum that have great things to say about you and PG. It was not my intent to make it about you, but the business in general that I am sure you know well. Not all are in the same class as you. I think it is basic human nature, our competivie spirit that drives us to want to be on any list. Get on the list, get to the next level. I think if you will reread my post you will see I took great care in choosing my words trying to deliver my point about what SOME travel teams expect when they embark on the road to get on the list.
You also got angry with me about my take on the DATA from another post, so I will just stay on the lighter side of things when posting from here on out. I sincerely apologize to you as obviously I offended you and that what not my intent.
The lists or how they are generated are not a problem imho.
My concern for this site is inclusiveness. Is this site mainly a promotional vehicle for the top 1000 on the list or is it for every kid who has a dream to play in high school or college someday?
In my mind, I don't see any difference in achievement between a kid who busts his hump to make a small D3 somewhere and a kid who is drafted highly or who signs at a top D1.
For those that make the list, you should be proud and hopefully the coaches and scouts out there will take note of your achievement - they are the ones that matter. As far as using them here, I hope people realize we have many skill levels involved and not all of them are on the list. I hope that everyone that desires to play in hs or college someday feels included enough here to participate. We value all of them - the 1000 on the list and the 79,000 who are not.
My concern for this site is inclusiveness. Is this site mainly a promotional vehicle for the top 1000 on the list or is it for every kid who has a dream to play in high school or college someday?
In my mind, I don't see any difference in achievement between a kid who busts his hump to make a small D3 somewhere and a kid who is drafted highly or who signs at a top D1.
For those that make the list, you should be proud and hopefully the coaches and scouts out there will take note of your achievement - they are the ones that matter. As far as using them here, I hope people realize we have many skill levels involved and not all of them are on the list. I hope that everyone that desires to play in hs or college someday feels included enough here to participate. We value all of them - the 1000 on the list and the 79,000 who are not.
PG Staff-
Did you pull your last post?
Now mine seems totally out of context...
Did you pull your last post?
Now mine seems totally out of context...
CD,
Well said IMO.
There will be many that use - or try to use - any means necessary to promote their kid. I dont think that will ever stop.
IMO - Parents and players would be better off spending their time focusing on the game and enjoying the experience - at whatever level that might be and for however long it lasts - as opposed to focusing on lists.
Doesnt matter if your kid is in MLB - or trying to make his little league squad. To me - the most exciting part has always been the game itself.
Well said IMO.
There will be many that use - or try to use - any means necessary to promote their kid. I dont think that will ever stop.
IMO - Parents and players would be better off spending their time focusing on the game and enjoying the experience - at whatever level that might be and for however long it lasts - as opposed to focusing on lists.
Doesnt matter if your kid is in MLB - or trying to make his little league squad. To me - the most exciting part has always been the game itself.
quote:Originally posted by iheartbb:
Now mine seems totally out of context...
Welcome to my little corner of the world!
Gotwood-
Will you please send me that doghouse thing?
I am pretty sure I'm in it.
Will you please send me that doghouse thing?
I am pretty sure I'm in it.
"Yes Regis...I want to use one of my lifelines...I want to call a friend...gotwood4sale."
"Hello gotwood4sale? This is iheartbb."
"I'm on a TV game show...Who Wants a Ton of Dough?"
"I've got thirty seconds...who sang the song "In the Jailhouse Now"? Lil' Kim...OJ Simpson...Soggy Bottom Boys...or Martha Stewart? Twenty five seconds..."
In the Jailhouse Now
I had a friend who rambled on.
Who posted a spiel, gambled, then sobbed.
He/she thought he/she was the smartest guy/gal in town!
But I found out this Monday.
That he/she got locked up Sunday.
They've got him/her in the doghouse way down town!
He/she's in the doghouse now! He/she's in the doghouse now!
I told him/her once or twice quit tossin' barbs and start bein' nice.
He/she's in the doghouse now!
"Are you sure? It sure sounds like something that Lil' Kim would sing."
"I know she's a rapper...I know I can hear and understand the lyrics to this song...but that doesn't mean it wasn't her who sang it!"
"Ok, ok...I'll trust what little sense you have."
"I'm really going against my better judgment here Regis, but my friend gotwood4sale does know a great deal about soggy bottoms and he's certain that it was The Soggy Bottom Boys who sang this. Final answer Regis. The Soggy Bottom Boys."
"Woo hoo!"
"Hello gotwood4sale? This is iheartbb."
"I'm on a TV game show...Who Wants a Ton of Dough?"
"I've got thirty seconds...who sang the song "In the Jailhouse Now"? Lil' Kim...OJ Simpson...Soggy Bottom Boys...or Martha Stewart? Twenty five seconds..."
In the Jailhouse Now
I had a friend who rambled on.
Who posted a spiel, gambled, then sobbed.
He/she thought he/she was the smartest guy/gal in town!
But I found out this Monday.
That he/she got locked up Sunday.
They've got him/her in the doghouse way down town!
He/she's in the doghouse now! He/she's in the doghouse now!
I told him/her once or twice quit tossin' barbs and start bein' nice.
He/she's in the doghouse now!
"Are you sure? It sure sounds like something that Lil' Kim would sing."
"I know she's a rapper...I know I can hear and understand the lyrics to this song...but that doesn't mean it wasn't her who sang it!"
"Ok, ok...I'll trust what little sense you have."
"I'm really going against my better judgment here Regis, but my friend gotwood4sale does know a great deal about soggy bottoms and he's certain that it was The Soggy Bottom Boys who sang this. Final answer Regis. The Soggy Bottom Boys."
"Woo hoo!"
iheartbb,
I'm sorry, yes I did delete that post. After reading it I thought it was best deleted. It was very late 2:30 or so in the morning. I deleted it and then shut off the laptop.
I've had others I respect who have suggested not taking things personal. You might not have meant us, but the problem is, the thread about a list was started and it was about our list. Kind of hard to set back without giving our side of things. As soon as we think the "lists" are harmful to any player we will quit doing them. Until then, we will continue doing them.
If the thread were about some other organization, there would have been no reason for us to reply.
Sorry, I really don't want to make ANY enemies. I should have deleted other posts as well. I'll try to be less sensitive to this kind of stuff in the future.
I'm sorry, yes I did delete that post. After reading it I thought it was best deleted. It was very late 2:30 or so in the morning. I deleted it and then shut off the laptop.
I've had others I respect who have suggested not taking things personal. You might not have meant us, but the problem is, the thread about a list was started and it was about our list. Kind of hard to set back without giving our side of things. As soon as we think the "lists" are harmful to any player we will quit doing them. Until then, we will continue doing them.
If the thread were about some other organization, there would have been no reason for us to reply.
Sorry, I really don't want to make ANY enemies. I should have deleted other posts as well. I'll try to be less sensitive to this kind of stuff in the future.
First of all, I have no problem with lists. I guess I was just offering two cents to the original poster to not put too much into the lists when you are that young. Because in the end, that list will probably change to some degree. And, I definitely think for the older kids the lists serve a purpose and have much validity. I think the usefulness is totally different at 17 than at 14. (By the way can you see the lists free for the older kids??) I also think a 14 year-old that's not on the list needs to understand that at that age the other guys may not have more talent, just might have grown earlier or started travel ball at age six or whatever.
PG: my son did have to choose. He cant be at three practices at once (now that most sports seem to be year round sports with fall ball, 7 on 7, etc. etc.) and ball tournaments and swim meets all tend to fall on weekends. HE MADE THE CHOICE TO QUIT. He puts all the pressure on himself, he is that kind of kid, thinks he has to be perfect at everything. We tell him all the time to lighten up, chill out etc. He wants to be the best at everything, so didn't want to miss any practices or game etc. He was worn to a frazzle. Gave up basketball (gladly) and baseball (sadly) and now is a happier kid. Still swims, plays football and runs track. But its still too bad that each sport takes up so much time year round - that at such a young age you kind of have to "specialize". My brother did it all, but each sport had its season.
Didn't mean to make anyone mad (iheartbb I need the doghouse thing too) - It was just an opinion.
I think PG serves a great purpose and so do the lists. My son has been to two showcases and did fine. Being seen is obviously important look at how kids from FL, TX, and CA dominate the lists: IMHO that's partly b/c they have more opportunity to be seen. I've recommended PG to a lot of kids.
PG: my son did have to choose. He cant be at three practices at once (now that most sports seem to be year round sports with fall ball, 7 on 7, etc. etc.) and ball tournaments and swim meets all tend to fall on weekends. HE MADE THE CHOICE TO QUIT. He puts all the pressure on himself, he is that kind of kid, thinks he has to be perfect at everything. We tell him all the time to lighten up, chill out etc. He wants to be the best at everything, so didn't want to miss any practices or game etc. He was worn to a frazzle. Gave up basketball (gladly) and baseball (sadly) and now is a happier kid. Still swims, plays football and runs track. But its still too bad that each sport takes up so much time year round - that at such a young age you kind of have to "specialize". My brother did it all, but each sport had its season.
Didn't mean to make anyone mad (iheartbb I need the doghouse thing too) - It was just an opinion.
I think PG serves a great purpose and so do the lists. My son has been to two showcases and did fine. Being seen is obviously important look at how kids from FL, TX, and CA dominate the lists: IMHO that's partly b/c they have more opportunity to be seen. I've recommended PG to a lot of kids.
BTW the lists that really matter aren't free. And that's fine, it probably costs a lot to generate the list. But, I'm just can't pay $200+ to see if my HS player is number 876 or something on a list. In the end I can spend the money on something better, like going to a PG showcase 
I will tell ya'll a secret.
If your kid is on that list, you will find out.
So, if you ain't hearing he's on the list, he ain't on the list.
This method does require the demonstration of some patience.
Mine never was on the list.
(No, it doesn't bother me, PGStaff.)
It wasn't fatal.
There is one critical list and that is the MLB draft list in the year your son is draft eligible.
Omission from that list, ain't fatal, but it is a hint.
The evaluation that Perfect Game provides can be an important tool in the recruiting process.
Coaches and scouts do subscribe to those services.
They are the intended audience.
The implication that the payment of money affects the placement on the list or, the location of the list is incorrect.
PG's success with the players and to the receipients of the scouting information is well documented.
If they took money and placed players at an inappropriate level, they would not have been in business this long or for very long into the future.
In reality, the biggest impact is on the top 300 players in the country.
If your son is in that group, you will know.
Whether he is 450 or 876 doesn't matter too much.
Deal with it.
We've covered this subject on here before.
Here's a link, that will answer most of your questions, believe it, or not, but it does require reading between the lines a little.
Bubba's Baseball Bashers Bonanza
Advice For Players & Parents
If your kid is on that list, you will find out.
So, if you ain't hearing he's on the list, he ain't on the list.
This method does require the demonstration of some patience.
Mine never was on the list.
(No, it doesn't bother me, PGStaff.)
It wasn't fatal.
There is one critical list and that is the MLB draft list in the year your son is draft eligible.
Omission from that list, ain't fatal, but it is a hint.
The evaluation that Perfect Game provides can be an important tool in the recruiting process.
Coaches and scouts do subscribe to those services.
They are the intended audience.
The implication that the payment of money affects the placement on the list or, the location of the list is incorrect.
PG's success with the players and to the receipients of the scouting information is well documented.
If they took money and placed players at an inappropriate level, they would not have been in business this long or for very long into the future.
In reality, the biggest impact is on the top 300 players in the country.
If your son is in that group, you will know.
Whether he is 450 or 876 doesn't matter too much.
Deal with it.
We've covered this subject on here before.
Here's a link, that will answer most of your questions, believe it, or not, but it does require reading between the lines a little.
Bubba's Baseball Bashers Bonanza
Advice For Players & Parents
FO,
Great post.
... and those links you offered are important.
FWIW, I am pretty cheap and haven't subscribed to the pay sites. I was speaking to one poster on HSBBW who said that he uses those services to help him to recruit for a team he was building. That made sense to me.
Great post.
... and those links you offered are important.
FWIW, I am pretty cheap and haven't subscribed to the pay sites. I was speaking to one poster on HSBBW who said that he uses those services to help him to recruit for a team he was building. That made sense to me.
quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Baseball is full of lists.
Hopefully - you wind up on alot of them.
Like the starting lineup card - or the top Ten batting averages - or even a Top Prospect list.
Many of these lists - like a Top Prospect list - are important - especially when produced by an organization like PG - that has a well deserved reputation for accuracy.
Personally - I enjoy reading the lists - and following the kids over the years.
I think the whole list thing is more of a problem with the parents - than it is with the players themselves.
Just my observation.
To everyone on the HSBBWEB,
I had a genuine interest in finding out WHERE & IF Perfect Game had posted the older age group lists.ie 18,17,16,&15u. Since the 14u list was put on the WWBA site in early August,I had been checking back to look at the others.
I too, know a lot of kids in these age groups and enjoy following thier accomplishments.
Being my first WWBA National Event, I did not even know they had such lists until I saw the 14u one posted. Naturally, I got excited thinking maybe my son had a chance to be on one because he had done pretty well.That is the line some of you took shots at me for. If some consider that a "shameless plug" or "hype" I don't understand why. This is an anoymous message board isn't it ? This is a free country so you can believe what you want.
I knew that a lot of people here are experienced and actually attended these events. That is why I asked here, anoymously.I thought it way to forward to call PG and ask if my son made a list.
3up-3down, is brutal, ain't it?
I hate it when that happens.
Sometimes the ride is, too............
Still, 24 more outs to go, 3up-down.
I hope you go the full nine.
I'm in the top of the ninth and it's been a great game.
I hate it when that happens.
Sometimes the ride is, too............
Still, 24 more outs to go, 3up-down.
I hope you go the full nine.
I'm in the top of the ninth and it's been a great game.
LOL
I had forgotten about Bubba's showcase... Given the new golden threads board is there anyway to get this placed there - It really belongs!!!!
I had forgotten about Bubba's showcase... Given the new golden threads board is there anyway to get this placed there - It really belongs!!!!
3up-3down,
I have no problem with your post. You simply asked a question.
The answer is yes we have a list from pretty much all the WWBA events. I'll check and see if they are posted somewhere or not.
We also have a list of EVERY player who competed in WWBA, Perfect Game, BCS, or any other event we do. Every one of those players is "listed" either on the PG Site, the WWBA Site, baseballwebtv or PGCrosschecker. PG and WWBA are free sites. Baseballwebtv is free to all college coaches and will be for all professional scouts.
The cost of doing PGCrosschecker and Baseballwebtv do not allow it to be free. Yet there are many free parts to both.
I apologize for being touchy and I especially apologize to 55mom and iheartbb. You don't deserve to be in anyone's doghouse. It's just that the wrong message, even if given innocently, can become a snowball rolling down the hill. Word travels fast in baseball, the wrong word or the correct one.
When respected people on this site say something, others listen! For the most part they should listen, I listen too, but there's often another view that should be considered.
I understand it can be meaningful to be on a list, but if someone can give one example of how being on a baseball player list or not being on a baseball player list has ever harmed a 14 year old boy... I will be all ears! Just not liking them, is OK, but that would simply be someone's opinion, just as the lists are always someone's opinion IMO.
I have no problem with your post. You simply asked a question.
The answer is yes we have a list from pretty much all the WWBA events. I'll check and see if they are posted somewhere or not.
We also have a list of EVERY player who competed in WWBA, Perfect Game, BCS, or any other event we do. Every one of those players is "listed" either on the PG Site, the WWBA Site, baseballwebtv or PGCrosschecker. PG and WWBA are free sites. Baseballwebtv is free to all college coaches and will be for all professional scouts.
The cost of doing PGCrosschecker and Baseballwebtv do not allow it to be free. Yet there are many free parts to both.
I apologize for being touchy and I especially apologize to 55mom and iheartbb. You don't deserve to be in anyone's doghouse. It's just that the wrong message, even if given innocently, can become a snowball rolling down the hill. Word travels fast in baseball, the wrong word or the correct one.
When respected people on this site say something, others listen! For the most part they should listen, I listen too, but there's often another view that should be considered.
I understand it can be meaningful to be on a list, but if someone can give one example of how being on a baseball player list or not being on a baseball player list has ever harmed a 14 year old boy... I will be all ears! Just not liking them, is OK, but that would simply be someone's opinion, just as the lists are always someone's opinion IMO.
PG Staff,
Thank You for checking.
Thank You for checking.
Here is my opinion on lists. There are good ones and there are bad ones. I believe PG's lists have 100% integrity and honesty which is why PG has gained ground over the years while others have receded.
Here's an example of lists gone awry. Here in our neck of the woods only one player was listed on Student Sports Baseball's list of '08's. This kid played in a B high school, and was nowhere on Baseball Northwest's lists. SSB's list didn't even mention the five local players who are going D1. How did this kid get on the list? His coach is a scout. No knock on the kid, but it just tells some lists--not all--can really be worthless.
Or another example. My son is listed as a "prospect" by Baseball America. They list him as a RHP. He's a LHP. I couldn't figure this out until I realized he was marked in the Junior Olympic brochure incorrectly as a RHP. So it is my suspicion they derived their "list" by simply plucking names from the J.O. rosters. What kind of list is that?
So that's why I think P.G.'s lists are valuable. At least their were born of research and integrity. Maybe one guy should be higher and one guy should be lower but this is always the case in an imperfect world.
As for 14 y.o. lists, I personally believe they are more fun than anything else, and that people should channel their money instead on instruction and competitive play, but some people might feel differently. That's America! So I have no problem with the lists. The only "harm" they might cause is probably a parent's ego, or like someone who gambles too much a parent who overspends on showcasing too early. But to each his own.
Here's an example of lists gone awry. Here in our neck of the woods only one player was listed on Student Sports Baseball's list of '08's. This kid played in a B high school, and was nowhere on Baseball Northwest's lists. SSB's list didn't even mention the five local players who are going D1. How did this kid get on the list? His coach is a scout. No knock on the kid, but it just tells some lists--not all--can really be worthless.
Or another example. My son is listed as a "prospect" by Baseball America. They list him as a RHP. He's a LHP. I couldn't figure this out until I realized he was marked in the Junior Olympic brochure incorrectly as a RHP. So it is my suspicion they derived their "list" by simply plucking names from the J.O. rosters. What kind of list is that?
So that's why I think P.G.'s lists are valuable. At least their were born of research and integrity. Maybe one guy should be higher and one guy should be lower but this is always the case in an imperfect world.
As for 14 y.o. lists, I personally believe they are more fun than anything else, and that people should channel their money instead on instruction and competitive play, but some people might feel differently. That's America! So I have no problem with the lists. The only "harm" they might cause is probably a parent's ego, or like someone who gambles too much a parent who overspends on showcasing too early. But to each his own.
1) The pressure is self imposed by the parents. They fear what happens if they don't keep up with the Jones starting at an early age because they don't know the game and don't understand the effects of puberty/physical development on future potential. I found a lot of the Jones' kids were out of sports by high school.quote:Originally posted by HitaHomer
1) First, IMO I think it gets crazier all the time, the pressure to focus and excel at one sport at an earlier and earlier age. My senior didn't even have cleats when he played tee-ball. Now at age five these kids are traveling and decked out in $$ gear, taking lessons etc. etc. There is so much pressure to be amazing so young - have to make those lists, instead of just learning and finding out where your abilities are.
2) Can't play baseball b/c his main sports are football and swimming and by age 13 he had to CHOOSE. Not enough time for all of them - got to focus and get on the lists.
3) Speaking of lists, they have them for swimming and son is on it, but my husband's (who was a swimmer) advice to him is "don't look at the lists, that is just stinkin thinkin."
2) My daugher lettered in three sports in high school. My son is now trying to do the same. I told/tell them each year to measure their progress towards making varsity by junior year. I told them any sport they don't make varsity by then, the time should be given to off season development of sports they might have the potential to play in college. My daughter plays college softball. She never put in extra time to volleyball even though she was on varsity for three years. Her "training" was playing two man volleyball on the beach for fun.
3) My son was a Hoop Scoop Top 100 at age nine. I was humored. So was a friend who played in the NBA. Has anyone seen any high school, college or pro basketball players who are 4'6"? When my son was 5 feet tall at twelve playing against kids a foot taller he wasn't All-Anything anymore. With USSSA travel baseball he doesn't have time to play AAU basketball. He's not on the list anymore. He still plays high school basketball. He's starting to grow like a week (five inches in five months). Time will tell if he makes varsity.
Don't back down from your opinions just because people disagree. I disagree but i still respect your input. Besides, there's always the possibility you'll hit the switch that makes my light come on and change my perspective. If nothing else, you'll make me think.quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Sorry, I really don't want to make ANY enemies. I should have deleted other posts as well. I'll try to be less sensitive to this kind of stuff in the future.
wholeheartedly agree with TG. I was being sarcastic when repeatedly saying "got to get on the list".
P.G. and Former Observer:
Just want to say I didn't mean to step on toes. I am also not one bit upset or jealous if son is not on the list. If he's on it, he's way way down toward the bottom. And, I wouldn't hear about it. Even though son plays 7A bb, in our state they think recruiting starts in March of your senior year and almost no one has ever heard of PG. Son's dream is to play college ball - looks like that will happen. I hope he goes somewhere, has a great bb experience, gets a great degree and then realizes life goes on. (And once again, he had a great PG showcase experience, thought his grade was pretty accurate, and yes for what its worth, made the top-prospect list at the Natl. UC showcase. PG I have actually recommended you to people and know of at least two that have since gone to showcases.)
I'm not expecting him to be on the MLB draft list and again THAT IS OK. I still love reading about the ones that are. Love reading TPMs posts and got tears in my eyes reading Coach May's story. I loved that for him and those boys.
My post was JUST TO SAY that the 14 year-old shouldn't put too much stock in a 14 year-old "top-prospect" list
. That's it. I know my opinions are from a nobody. I guess I can still have an opinion, be it ever so humble.
I do love this site.
P.G. and Former Observer:
Just want to say I didn't mean to step on toes. I am also not one bit upset or jealous if son is not on the list. If he's on it, he's way way down toward the bottom. And, I wouldn't hear about it. Even though son plays 7A bb, in our state they think recruiting starts in March of your senior year and almost no one has ever heard of PG. Son's dream is to play college ball - looks like that will happen. I hope he goes somewhere, has a great bb experience, gets a great degree and then realizes life goes on. (And once again, he had a great PG showcase experience, thought his grade was pretty accurate, and yes for what its worth, made the top-prospect list at the Natl. UC showcase. PG I have actually recommended you to people and know of at least two that have since gone to showcases.)
I'm not expecting him to be on the MLB draft list and again THAT IS OK. I still love reading about the ones that are. Love reading TPMs posts and got tears in my eyes reading Coach May's story. I loved that for him and those boys.
My post was JUST TO SAY that the 14 year-old shouldn't put too much stock in a 14 year-old "top-prospect" list
I do love this site.
TG,
Thanks, but I've never felt a need to change anyone's perspective. Only try to explain our perspective. Never tell anyone what they should or should not do or like, but I'm too stubborn to back down from my opinions unless they're proven wrong.
Just don't see any reason to develop any new enemies. Already have enough of them to last a life time.
Thanks, but I've never felt a need to change anyone's perspective. Only try to explain our perspective. Never tell anyone what they should or should not do or like, but I'm too stubborn to back down from my opinions unless they're proven wrong.
Just don't see any reason to develop any new enemies. Already have enough of them to last a life time.
HitaHomer1,
I too am a nobody! And I wish your son all the success possible. I really mean that.
I too am a nobody! And I wish your son all the success possible. I really mean that.
But your somebody's nobody PG!
Thanks PG. I know what it all boils down to is that you probably really love baseball and care about the boys too.
FO,
Don't expect my son to be on the MLB draft list out of HS or even out of college (hope springs eternal of course!). I don't think that's anywhere close to being fatal.
The lists are nice and they can be an advantage for those who have earned their way onto them. I also find the lists interesting to look at. But in the long run, if a kid gets out where he can be seen and performs well then he'll get on an important list that can often be found in one of these forums and that's the 200x signees. One may want to note that a lot of the signees are not headed to D1 colleges but they are thrilled to be signing with a college baseball program.
Don't expect my son to be on the MLB draft list out of HS or even out of college (hope springs eternal of course!). I don't think that's anywhere close to being fatal.
The lists are nice and they can be an advantage for those who have earned their way onto them. I also find the lists interesting to look at. But in the long run, if a kid gets out where he can be seen and performs well then he'll get on an important list that can often be found in one of these forums and that's the 200x signees. One may want to note that a lot of the signees are not headed to D1 colleges but they are thrilled to be signing with a college baseball program.