Young hitter for review (#2)!

I have not studied these swings, but it sure is fun watching him jump on that low inside pitch.

Not sure if it's just the video or what, but seems like the bat could be a bit quicker. In his case I wonder if a "very" small stride might help him create a little more quickness.

I am sure some will pick out something, but overall I like this kids approach. I like his head position, the fact that his front foot remains closed until it naturally opens and his spine and head are over the baseball. Pretty nice youngin'.

If this kid is 14, I would guess he is a dominant hitter in his loop -- certainly in a rec program, probably in a decent youth travel program.

I saw this youngster swing three years ago and liked his swing then. I still like his swing. I like both his upper and lower body loads.

quote:

Originally posted by bbscout:
I saw this youngster swing three years ago and liked his swing then.

bbscout,

It was actually only two years ago. Here's a swing from then...



Jason

Not a lot to change, that's for sure. Serves as a nice contrast to the kid in the first "Young hitter for review" post. There just MIGHT be a reason or two the second hitter handles the outside pitch better. (still head, good load, seems to recognize well, lets it get deep, doesn't move back elbow from power slot position, etc, etc.)

I like to find a nice comparison high level swing from similar angle with similar setup.

One very similar role model which I found surprising was Yaz.

You might fid it interesting to compare Yaz to BRandon/look for similarities/differences.

Brandon seems to be starting already somewhat loaded up on the back foot, then when he takes an inward turn with weight already back it causes some sway and turning of the back leg without much turn of the hips/body. This gets the legs spreading early when they need to spread later as the stride foot goes forward,etc.

Sometimes you can see this stuff a lot beter in the old timers with big lumber.

For those of you that don't know this young hitter is my son. He's always been a decent hitter but he's never hit for the kind of power he and I both feel he's capable of.

When we started working on his swing two years ago we knew it was going to be a long process. He works hard and wants to be great. His swing isn't where we want it to be yet, but it's getting closer.

He's a corner infielder and a pitcher. He throws right handed and bats left handed. He also plays football (Quarterback).

Jason

Nice Swing kind of reminds me of Joe Mauer but I am curious as to what your definion of power is for a 14/15 yr old ?

quote:

Originally posted by FlippJ:
For those of you that don't know this young hitter is my son. He's always been a decent hitter but he's never hit for the kind of power he and I both feel he's capable of.

When we started working on his swing two years ago we knew it was going to be a long process. He works hard and wants to be great. His swing isn't where we want it to be yet, but it's getting closer.

He's a corner infielder and a pitcher. He throws right handed and bats left handed. He also plays football (Quarterback).

Jason

What kind of power are you looking for?

There is nothing wrong with being a solid line drive hitter. He looks like he has good plate coverage and can spray line drives all over the place. Not everyone is a power hitter.

Flipp,

Your son looks very good! He has a bright future so let's really critique.

I think he could and will develop more bat speed which would obviously produce more power. But that bat speed needs to be under control. If he continues the way he is he will increase bat speed naturally.

One question for everyone for discussion... Does it look like the top hand is a bit too dominate in the swing?

A Critique but only a guess without slowing down the fiim. Flipps son's strength is his ability to rotate around his center of gravity. When he loads he sets his head on the inside edge of the plate and drops his shoulder into the swing plane. A very effective way to make consistent contact but will slow batspeed somewhat because it's tied to the speed of the hips. One key to additional power is bat lag which is generated by fast hips first followed by torque of the stomach then fast hands. His follow through would show longer extension on the right field hits. Again just a thought but remember Tony Gwynn choose to be a contact hitter.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:
What kind of power are you looking for?

redbird5,

My son does get pretty good plate coverage and he hits the ball hard. But he doesn't drive the ball as consistently as he should. I'm not talking about home runs necessarily. I'd like to see him drive balls into the gaps a little more than he does. He hits them there, he just doesn't drive them there consistently. Does that make sense?

His swing will get better as he matures and his strength and coordination improve, but there are a few "issues" still left to be worked out. One big one is his hands tend to get left behind his rotation. It's hard to see but it's there. There are other's but that is the biggest one at the moment in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Does it look like the top hand is a bit too dominate in the swing?

PGStaff,

I wouldn't say his top hand/arm is too dominant. I think his top hand/arm is causing problems but I think it's a result of what I mentioned above about his hands being left behind his rotation.

Jason

I just noticed something Jason......don't you ever sit on the 3rd base side? Would love to see a game clip from that side.

Well, it's just my opinion but if we're nitpicking, start working out full time with a wooden bat. Being heavier it might help increase batspeed. However, to me the real benefit will be the feed back it gives you on centering the ball on the bat.

I'd widen the stance a couple of inches and actually have the front foot open up more on the swing, about 45 degrees or more when planted. Yes, I know this is blasphemous to some. However I have found it helps with hip rotation and increases bat speed.

But you gotta know Flipp, his swing is really pretty darned good in my opinion. Do you have any film to post from the opposite view, facing him?

And remember, he's under 160 lbs at 5-10. He'll grow. Have him exercise and focus on the core particularly the thighs.

Good luck

Anybody got that "Yaz.gif" for comparison ?

Doug,JJA,Sandman ?

By comparison you can get an appreciation for how the kid is out of sequence/still with backleg push when front leg blocks,spinning, etc.

Jason and I have discussed this before, as my son has the same issue that he mentioned - hips opening, but leaving the hands behind a bit. Notice in the first 3 frames of this 4-frame sequence below how Yaz's hips don't open as soon in relation to the bat moving? Whereas Brandon's hips start to open more while the bat is still behind his rotation - and this was an outside pitch even.

Also notice the momentum Yaz has, as his rear foot is pulled forward, but Brandon's stays put? Can that be helped (as someone suggested above) by adding a stride, or is it just the hips not really powering the swing quite as much as thought?

Now... how do we FIX that?

Just curious Jason... when's the last time Brandon took some swings w/ a stride? Is it worth a shot at this point, seeing he has such a solid foundation? Kevin is certainly the other extreme (w/ a bit TOO much/high stride), but he has been POUNDING the ball since June. For example, so far in fall ball (albeit rec), he's batted 12x and has 3 triples (and 6 singles). Though his swing is far from perfect, might that stride/momentum be helping?

he's never hit for the kind of power he and I both feel he's capable of.

Just my two cents but I would look to incorporate a little more weight shift momentum into his rotation which should generate more bat speed/power.

quote:

Originally posted by Sandman:


Jason and I have discussed this before, as my son has the same issue that he mentioned - hips opening, but leaving the hands behind a bit. Notice in the first 3 frames of this 4-frame sequence below how Yaz's hips don't open as soon in relation to the bat moving? Whereas Brandon's hips start to open more while the bat is still behind his rotation - and this was an outside pitch even.

Also notice the momentum Yaz has, as his rear foot is pulled forward, but Brandon's stays put? Can that be helped (as someone suggested above) by adding a stride, or is it just the hips not really powering the swing quite as much as thought?

Now... how do we FIX that?

Just curious Jason... when's the last time Brandon took some swings w/ a stride? Is it worth a shot at this point, seeing he has such a solid foundation? Kevin is certainly the other extreme (w/ a bit TOO much/high stride), but he has been POUNDING the ball since June. For example, so far in fall ball (albeit rec), he's batted 12x and has 3 triples in the gap (and 6 singles). Though his swing is far from perfect, might that stride/momentum be helping?

It's about using your middle to create weight shift momentum which isn't necessarily related to stride length. It's the swinging gate theory as opposed to the revolving door...By carrying more weight shift momentum into rotation, with proper use of the front leg, more weight becomes suspended against the front side as the upper body whips around the front leg (post) pulling virtually all weight off the backside at contact.

quote:

One question for everyone for discussion... Does it look like the top hand is a bit too dominate in the swing?

PGStaff observation about top hand dominance is interesting. Top hand dominance goes back upstream to weight shift.

The swing wearing #33....(it might not be representative) but in that swing he is dead front foot hitting.

There is no weight shift and the lead leg goes out but "draws back To his body" before it plants. Compare lead foot to McGriff, Jones Glaus It prepared for the shift that did not occur.

Shifting for linear momentum is not necessary to have a good swing but it IS necessary (even is subtle) to use move the COG to the lead leg for a better hip turn in time with the unhinge of the wrist angle.

YOU SHIFT AND OPEN THE HIPS TO TIGHTEN THE LINKAGE AND MOVE THE COG TO AVOID USING ANY MUSCLE ACTIVITY TO PREVENT FALLING BACK AT LAUNCH. MAINTAINING A CLOSED FOOT CAN DIMINISH THE SHIFT AND THE LINKAGE. YOU CAN LAND THE FOOT MORE CLOSED BUT YOU BETTER TRAIN IT TO ACCEPT SOME WEIGHT AND BLOW OPEN IN THE ROTATION A LA BONDS

Remember that closing off the lead foot was in a sense a drill set to learn to use the middle. So in that sense it made it somehat harder to shift and spatially connect to teach and strengthen other unused muscles of the middle and enhance the ability to turn.

Jason and I respecfully do not totally agree on this point.

If you are dissatisfied with power always look at the unhinge in time with lead leg extension and where the weight is. You will often find the problem there in good players with a good swing. We are talking about very subtle things here

Without the shift and weight transfer to the lead leg you get " trapped on the back side" with weight on the back leg as the knee hinges. Your weight is falling back as you are trying to release the bat bleeding off speed and energy.

For the player that gets chronically trapped they throw the top hand at all pitch locations as the front foot / leg should take you to the different pitches( Peavy)with a tight torso linkage

I stand behind players and have them start their stride and I push them forward without them knowing I am going to do it. I repeat it and tell them to hold their position at foot plant. I show the the natural position of the lead foot accepting weight. I have never seen one closed off. They are all 45 degrees.

A closed foot player generally holds more coil back and inside which is fine. Just make sure you can get out of there and release it.

The front foot ( for my money) will act more like in pitching. The fanning of the lead knee and the acceptance of lead leg weight can tighten the linkage and increase power drastically.

Do you really want to use a closed front foot to keep the shoulder loaded to foot plant? There are better mechanisms inherent in upper body loading patterns that can work above the belt independently to do that

That back foot at impact is the " teller of all tales" . Did you leave anything on the back side. Whatever is left there as evidenced by a collapsing ankle could have been distance on the fly ball.

My son had this problem .....I have much experience with it. Believe it or not it began as a little boy hitting rocks with a wooden bat standing facing uphill in my driveway. The uphill slope kept him on his back foot.

Could it be that an easy solution might be doing soft toss on a slight down slope ? Who knows....One thing for sure you would not stride with a closed front foot on a down slope without ankle strain

We all have a theme or point of view that we believe " works" . I have it; you have it. If working the middle is the theme you will learn to work the middle. You might even do it until you take the legs away.

ALL STRENGTHS OVER- AMPLIFIED WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME WEAKNESSES.

Swingbuster, we don't always agree on how to swing a bat and hit a ball, but, I must say, from your above post, we're getting closer to agreement....

There is definitely more to rotating into footplant then meets the eye......Tightening the linkage, as you have described it, is a way of engaging certain muscles for some hitters....It does all come down to how you move the middle, though....And, I do believe there are subtle differences as to how MLB hitters do this....

BlueDog,

My biggest driving force is looking back at mistakes I made and not wanting to repeat them or see others repeat them .

Brandon IS advanced and progressing nicely.

It took me a couple of years to understand how weight shift can help rotation and how upper body loading can increase connection to better utilize lower body rotation.

I have finally discovered it in golf too

quote:

Originally posted by bbscout:
I just noticed something Jason......don't you ever sit on the 3rd base side?

Doug,

With me helping coach my son's team this year I was a little limited in when I could video. For whatever reason our coach always took the 1B dugout when we were at home. Most of the time when we were playing away the fence was in the way, and I hate recording with the fence in the way so I didn't get any video.

Unless I get talked out of it I'm planning to go back to being just a dad next season. If I do I'll be able to get a lot more video of Brandon.

Thanks to everyone for the kind words and opinions. Once football ends we're going to start working. I've got a plan and we're being patient. You can't fix everything at once and changes take time.

Jason

P.S. I'll have another young hitter for review shortly!

Thanks Mike/Sandman !!!!

I like to try to reconcile cues from one analyst vs another because otherwise a lot of nuance can be lost trying to find a "neutral" word which is inevitably confusing because the word is never defined the same in any two minds.

Cues CAN (don't have to) carry more "context" which can convey their meaning more accurately from one person's brain to another.

For example, I would say, with respect to Yeager, Brandon shows the typical low level "back leg pushing while front leg is blocking".

Yeager bases his analysis on a swing model derived from pressure plate measurment of how much weight the feet carry/when and where.

The phases he constructs are:

1 - back leg load

2- back leg push

3 - front leg block

4- front leg push.

What confuses many is that the definition of back leg "push" does not mean that the back leg is necessarily extending at the knee to provide a "push".

"Push" means that the back foot as a base is used to permit "force production" of some kind which results in the whole body/center of mass/center of gravity going forward.

Degree of flex in the back leg is involved in controlling the tempo of this motion of the center, but the primary action in most is spreading of the legs which is primarily ABduction or "lifting" of the front leg.

Gravity is also invloved.

The back leg CAN extend at the knee for very long striders like Mantle for example.

The sequence of back leg flex/"sit" or extension is then followed by back leg turning to support rotation/opening of the hips, but only AFTER the front leg has turned open ("front knee flair"/external rotation of front leg) followed by hips turning open as body coils/torso muscles stretch.

Now look at Brandon's feet as oppose to YAZ -

Can you "see" that brandon continues to push when the front foot is down whereas Yaz does not.

More later in case that sinks in.

Of course, you know me, the answer to how it gets "fixed" will be upper body arm action sequence as king just as in loading for the overhand throw.

Tom,

I'm not interested in what you think about my son's swing. You have an agenda and I won't allow you to use my son to be part of that agenda again.

Move on to a different thread.

Thanks!

Jason

P.S. You have a PM.