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It could just as well have happened with a wood bat.
While this is a very tragic example of what can happen with a sports injury, I am weary of people in our society always looking for someone else to blame, and especially someone else to pay for their misfortune. Playing sports at any level carries an inherent amount of risk. Players are injured playing sports. Sometimes, a few have died while on the field, it is tragic, but I fail to understand why people who are so eager to have their child play a sport will so quickly turn around and sue everyone when something tragic, but unavoidable happens.
It is not the fault of the bat company. When you walk on the field, you know that you risk physical injury and you can't always run looking for someone to fleece due to your unfortunate accident.
It is not the fault of the bat company. When you walk on the field, you know that you risk physical injury and you can't always run looking for someone to fleece due to your unfortunate accident.
It's a tragedy when an athlete gets seriously injured on the field of competition. I was very fortunate to make it through years of sports without a serious injury. My kids have managed so far.
However, as parents we all know the risks before we allow the kids to play sports. I chose not to let my son play organized football until middle school. These parents knew what metal bats were all about before they allowed their son to pitch. They chose to let him pitch. His injury may have been just the same with a wood bat.
However, as parents we all know the risks before we allow the kids to play sports. I chose not to let my son play organized football until middle school. These parents knew what metal bats were all about before they allowed their son to pitch. They chose to let him pitch. His injury may have been just the same with a wood bat.
What a sad story, on all levels.
It doesn't say how old the kid was at the time, or what position he was playing. Knowing Little League baseball like I do, I hope it wasn't a kid playing "up" a level, or in a position he wasn't ready for.
This is definitely is a tragic situation. I'm with 06catcherdad---it's not the fault of the bat company, or the sporting goods chain that sold the bat. Nor is it the fault of Little League.
A long time ago, on May 6, 1990--opening day for the Little League season--complete with a parade, there was a horribly tragic situation which occurred in my itty-bitty idyllic suburb of Chicago, where nothing ever happens. A Little League game was being played among 7 and 8 year olds in a park nestled within a neighborhood. Little League games had been played there since the 1950's, when the town got its Little League charter.
A man driving a car lost control of it or blacked out or something--the car crashed up onto the park, into the end of the player's bench, on to the field, crossed the park and into the street ending up in a brick building. Three kids were killed, many kids and a few adults very seriously injured. It was horrible. Anyway, two of the families which suffered the devastating loss of their child and a few of those with injured kids sued Little League, the village, and I don't remember who else....I don't know the outcome, but it changed the face of Little League in my town and the recreation department of my village.
Horrible, but one of those situations in which a tragic outcome came of an innocent child's game. So many years later, I remember the families which did not sue---and I have total respect for them.
And I still remember the sweet faces of the angels who died.
It doesn't say how old the kid was at the time, or what position he was playing. Knowing Little League baseball like I do, I hope it wasn't a kid playing "up" a level, or in a position he wasn't ready for.
This is definitely is a tragic situation. I'm with 06catcherdad---it's not the fault of the bat company, or the sporting goods chain that sold the bat. Nor is it the fault of Little League.
A long time ago, on May 6, 1990--opening day for the Little League season--complete with a parade, there was a horribly tragic situation which occurred in my itty-bitty idyllic suburb of Chicago, where nothing ever happens. A Little League game was being played among 7 and 8 year olds in a park nestled within a neighborhood. Little League games had been played there since the 1950's, when the town got its Little League charter.
A man driving a car lost control of it or blacked out or something--the car crashed up onto the park, into the end of the player's bench, on to the field, crossed the park and into the street ending up in a brick building. Three kids were killed, many kids and a few adults very seriously injured. It was horrible. Anyway, two of the families which suffered the devastating loss of their child and a few of those with injured kids sued Little League, the village, and I don't remember who else....I don't know the outcome, but it changed the face of Little League in my town and the recreation department of my village.
Horrible, but one of those situations in which a tragic outcome came of an innocent child's game. So many years later, I remember the families which did not sue---and I have total respect for them.
And I still remember the sweet faces of the angels who died.
very tragic 
I think the coach is mostly responsible for the entire incident
I think the coach is mostly responsible for the entire incident
BEE
What do you base your thoughts on?
What do you base your thoughts on?
Why exactly was there a change to metal bats in the first place? I remember wood bats in the 70's.
Metal bats were a budget move. The Worth Six Pack was all a team needed. It was six different models for $100. I think wood bats were about $12 at the time. The metal bat's quality wasn't much better than a chain link fence support pole. Wood bats were better. Then came technology. The rest is history.
It's a terrible tragedy but it's unfortunately part of the game. Lawsuits like this will drastically change the game to where all players will have to wear battle armor just to play the field or hit. I'm for safety but at some point you have to realize you take a chance when you step on the field and you have the choice to not step on that field. People need to start taking responsiblity for their actions and choices.
Do you think wood composite bats have a chance at replacing metal? While they are not unbreakable they are more durable than a regular wooden bat. There still is a chance of people getting hurt but it will get the game back to a safer level.
Bee - I agree with TR and wonder how it's the coaches fault?
Do you think wood composite bats have a chance at replacing metal? While they are not unbreakable they are more durable than a regular wooden bat. There still is a chance of people getting hurt but it will get the game back to a safer level.
Bee - I agree with TR and wonder how it's the coaches fault?
There's no place for metal bats in baseball period!
the kid's own Dad was his coachquote:by TR: BEE> ... What do you base your thoughts on?
yikes, Dad taught him the game, signed him up & coached him thru 14U (jr hs), and he now seems to be sueing a company only because they have assets
on account of his horrible freak accident
Prayers, miracles, and angels for the NJ lad (and I realize this continues from a couple of years ago).
Not withstanding, I raised my hand right away to be on that jury! After listening to all the evidence, findings of fact, and ALL of the science tests regarding bat velocities and ball exit speeds, I know how I would vote.
cheers
Bear
postscript: Back to the Future with Wood!
The Whole Truth and Nothing But the Truth. I never did like Sports Authority!
OBTW: Commotio cordis is a very rare event, but nonetheless is often considered when an athlete presents with sudden cardiac death. Some of the sports have risk for this cause of trauma. Children are especially vulnerable, possibly due to the mechanical propeties of their thoracic skeleton! This is the legal and arguable issue.
OBTW: U.S. Consumer Safety Product Commission is NOT (per legal'eze' jargon) considered, and by any sense of the imagination, as an expert witness!
(or they too would have been named on a class action lawsuit, eons ago. Imagine that!)
Not withstanding, I raised my hand right away to be on that jury! After listening to all the evidence, findings of fact, and ALL of the science tests regarding bat velocities and ball exit speeds, I know how I would vote.
cheers
Bear
postscript: Back to the Future with Wood!
The Whole Truth and Nothing But the Truth. I never did like Sports Authority!
OBTW: Commotio cordis is a very rare event, but nonetheless is often considered when an athlete presents with sudden cardiac death. Some of the sports have risk for this cause of trauma. Children are especially vulnerable, possibly due to the mechanical propeties of their thoracic skeleton! This is the legal and arguable issue.
OBTW: U.S. Consumer Safety Product Commission is NOT (per legal'eze' jargon) considered, and by any sense of the imagination, as an expert witness!
(or they too would have been named on a class action lawsuit, eons ago. Imagine that!)
This story is tragic, and the human cost is beyond calculation. However, the financial burden of the care needed by this young man, should he outlive his parents ability to care for him, will be around $100K/year for assisted living. That is likely the main motivation for a suit. The father is said to be school teacher, so piling up a nest egg will probably be pretty difficult. I'm not sure how I would act if faced with this situation: if my own child needed expensive care for an indeterminate period of time, and I had no way to cover that expense, would I sue in an attempt to provide for my kid? I don't know.
The suit itself will be interesting. Apparently central to the suit is the idea that the injury was caused by an aluminum bat. Yet the official cause was commotio cordis. As we can see from a Newsday Article, the main factor is the timing of the blow with respect to the heartbeat. Since 1985, 180 commotio cordis deaths have been recorded from a variety of sports, falls, and fights. I have read, but don't have a reference, that while no deaths have been recorded from batted balls, there have been deaths from thrown balls. One reasonable conclusion is that the severity of the blow, if above some threshold, is less important than the location and timing.
I find it quite interesting that Little League is being named in the suit-- the boy was playing in a Police Athletic League, which is unaffliated with LL. Apparently the idea is that since LL certifies bats for Bat Performance Factor, one can therefore infer that aluminum bats are safe. Thus LL, rather than the parents or the PAL, bears responsibility. Yet, as I understand it, LL doesn't say aluminum bats are safe; rather they say they are no more dangerous than wooden bats.
The suit will also name the retail store that sold the bat. If the suit claims that LL is responsible because the parents and league relied on its certification of the bat, shouldn't the store also be able to rely on LL's certification? I don't see how both the store and LL can be liable.
The suit itself will be interesting. Apparently central to the suit is the idea that the injury was caused by an aluminum bat. Yet the official cause was commotio cordis. As we can see from a Newsday Article, the main factor is the timing of the blow with respect to the heartbeat. Since 1985, 180 commotio cordis deaths have been recorded from a variety of sports, falls, and fights. I have read, but don't have a reference, that while no deaths have been recorded from batted balls, there have been deaths from thrown balls. One reasonable conclusion is that the severity of the blow, if above some threshold, is less important than the location and timing.
I find it quite interesting that Little League is being named in the suit-- the boy was playing in a Police Athletic League, which is unaffliated with LL. Apparently the idea is that since LL certifies bats for Bat Performance Factor, one can therefore infer that aluminum bats are safe. Thus LL, rather than the parents or the PAL, bears responsibility. Yet, as I understand it, LL doesn't say aluminum bats are safe; rather they say they are no more dangerous than wooden bats.
The suit will also name the retail store that sold the bat. If the suit claims that LL is responsible because the parents and league relied on its certification of the bat, shouldn't the store also be able to rely on LL's certification? I don't see how both the store and LL can be liable.
wooden bat metal bat? the jury is still out. I remember when my son was starting out 8 or 9 there was a boy who was injured with a pitched ball. He was hit in the chest area. They resorted to wearing vests. I guesss the 100% answer would be not to play at all. The coaches in the major leagues now wear helmets in the coaching box in response to the minor league coach who was killed by a batted ball. I believe he was hit in the neck area? Helmet??? the only thing we can do is make the game as safe as possible. The "as possible" is the question.
Since some youth leagues are changing back to wood because of safety issues, part of the suit may have some merit. If metal and wood react the same though, there really is no issue. It could have happened with a wood bat. Those big barrels have a lot of zing, but I believe are only used in the "travel" leagues. I guess it depends what LL approved.
As the parent of a pitcher, I would love to see wood bats in high school.
After watching parts of 3 college games yesterday, definitely there.
imo, since there has always been a long running debate about the safety of metal bats I say let the manufacturers open their files. I would like to see just how and why they "sold" youth leagues on metal bats in the first place. It would be interesting to see if metal bats used in the youth leagues really do have the same pop as wood.
Anytime a child gets injured or killed playing a game is very sad and tragic. My prayers of healing go out to them.
As the parent of a pitcher, I would love to see wood bats in high school.
After watching parts of 3 college games yesterday, definitely there. imo, since there has always been a long running debate about the safety of metal bats I say let the manufacturers open their files. I would like to see just how and why they "sold" youth leagues on metal bats in the first place. It would be interesting to see if metal bats used in the youth leagues really do have the same pop as wood.
Anytime a child gets injured or killed playing a game is very sad and tragic. My prayers of healing go out to them.
quote:Originally posted by 55mom:
It would be interesting to see if metal bats used in the youth leagues really do have the same pop as wood.
Science Fair project, anyone????
quote:Anytime a child gets injured or killed playing a game is very sad and tragic. My prayers of healing go out to them.
I agree.
Bat rep: "How many $12 bats do you buy for a team over three years? Here's a Worth Six Pack. It's $100. The bats will last 3-5 years." You do the math. It was a no brainer decision.quote:I would like to see just how and why they "sold" youth leagues on metal bats in the first place.
When metal bats first came out they didn't have pop. They were nothing more than pipes with a handle. I preferred wood.
To be blunt, some of these bats are just too hot.
Here is video of my girl pitching for our conference title. It is video taken by one of our opponent's parents and submitted to this newspaper. At the 58 second mark, you'll see #20 for the other team hitting. You'll see her hit the ball but listen. The second pop is a ball blocked by my girl's glove in front of her face. People know that earlier in the year, she took one off of the face which deflected to just above her heart. As parents, we're torn. She doesn't want a face mask. I'm scared to death every time she takes the circle. That video demonstrates why. You won't see the impact but you'll hear how fast it happens.
BTW, maybe some posters will think she's terrible and shouldn't be pitching in the first place. You may be right. However, currently, she is 11-0. So, she's not the worst in our area.
Here is the video link:
Listen at the 58 second mark!
Oh, BTW, she's number 9 and is shown in the middle of this video. For a freshman, she's 5'10" tall and very strong.
Here is video of my girl pitching for our conference title. It is video taken by one of our opponent's parents and submitted to this newspaper. At the 58 second mark, you'll see #20 for the other team hitting. You'll see her hit the ball but listen. The second pop is a ball blocked by my girl's glove in front of her face. People know that earlier in the year, she took one off of the face which deflected to just above her heart. As parents, we're torn. She doesn't want a face mask. I'm scared to death every time she takes the circle. That video demonstrates why. You won't see the impact but you'll hear how fast it happens.
BTW, maybe some posters will think she's terrible and shouldn't be pitching in the first place. You may be right. However, currently, she is 11-0. So, she's not the worst in our area.
Here is the video link:
Listen at the 58 second mark!
Oh, BTW, she's number 9 and is shown in the middle of this video. For a freshman, she's 5'10" tall and very strong.
CoachB25,
I would think it is at least as scary (for parents) in fastpitch as in baseball, because the pitcher's mound is closer to home plate, isn't it? (I should know that because I played fastpitch through college, but I can't remember the dimensions.)
Julie
I would think it is at least as scary (for parents) in fastpitch as in baseball, because the pitcher's mound is closer to home plate, isn't it? (I should know that because I played fastpitch through college, but I can't remember the dimensions.)
Julie
Actually B25-she must be good. She had the reaction time to deflect the ball and not get hit-Thank God!
Although I am truly sorry about the young man that got hurt, I am not sure if suing the bat manufacturers is going to solve the problems. Is it really their fault? The parents knew there was a chance someone could get hurt. How about the batter? Couldn't he be at fault? (Not that I really believe that but if you are suing everyone else, why not him too?)
Personally, I like wood. Our boys have been using wood bats recently and I didn't realize the difference in the game. I like it. I think it is truer to the original sport.
Although I am truly sorry about the young man that got hurt, I am not sure if suing the bat manufacturers is going to solve the problems. Is it really their fault? The parents knew there was a chance someone could get hurt. How about the batter? Couldn't he be at fault? (Not that I really believe that but if you are suing everyone else, why not him too?)
Personally, I like wood. Our boys have been using wood bats recently and I didn't realize the difference in the game. I like it. I think it is truer to the original sport.
ASA (and comparable) - 40 feetquote:Originally posted by MN-Mom:
CoachB25,
I would think it is at least as scary (for parents) in fastpitch as in baseball, because the pitcher's mound is closer to home plate, isn't it? (I should know that because I played fastpitch through college, but I can't remember the dimensions.)
Julie
ASA Gold - 43 feet
High school 40 or 43 feet depending on state
College - 43 feet
It wasn't 43 feet when you played.
I believe when I played college in the 80's it was 40 ft. Fortunately I don't remember any balls coming back at me quite like that. I do remember that Demarini had come out with some bat that was supposed hit the ball harder but we always went with it was the batter and not the bat that made the difference.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:Bat rep: "How many $12 bats do you buy for a team over three years? Here's a Worth Six Pack. It's $100. The bats will last 3-5 years." You do the math. It was a no brainer decision.quote:I would like to see just how and why they "sold" youth leagues on metal bats in the first place.
When metal bats first came out they didn't have pop. They were nothing more than pipes with a handle. I preferred wood.
I know saving money was the real reason.
There have been several opinions as to safety being one of the selling points as well. If they are supposed to be safer, and they are not, wouldn't that be a problem? Maybe they are so well engineered now, that they are not appropriate for children who are not displaying the skill sets or reflexes needed to field balls coming off the bats. I don't know the answers, and I could be totally wrong in this line of thinking.
Whenever the examples are brought forward of incidences with metal bats my first response is, "Would it have happened with wood?" My guess is in most cases wood would have created the same result. People don't seem to look at the possibilty of the ball was just hit that hard regardless of choice of bat, or the fielder has bad reflexes.quote:Maybe they are so well engineered now, that they are not appropriate for children who are not displaying the skill sets or reflexes needed to field balls coming off the bats.
Good point RJM. Having just watched my 14yo take BP, my hubby is lucky to have his front teeth. Thank Goodness for the L-screen. He used nothing but wood. Now imagine a full grown man or a young kid throwing from 46 ft. against some of the boys that have matured young. That could be disasterous with any kind of bat.
The truth is that there is more offense with a metal bat. That is because the sweet spot is larger!
So the debates about how fast the ball comes off the bat is one thing. However, the ball comes off a metal bat at an alarming speed more often.
So it might be that a wood bat would have done the same thing, but due to frequency, the metal bat will hit "more" balls hard and thus increase the chances of injurying someone, especially a pitcher.
One only has to follow the age brackets that use both. College games have more hits, home runs, hard hit balls, runs scored, more offense than the college wood bat leagues.
We hold both metal and wood bat tournaments. The metal bat tournaments have much more offense and hard hit balls. More offense means more hitters and larger sweet spot means more hard hit balls.
Neither wood or metal is safe. But "chances" of serious injury are less with wood.
So the debates about how fast the ball comes off the bat is one thing. However, the ball comes off a metal bat at an alarming speed more often.
So it might be that a wood bat would have done the same thing, but due to frequency, the metal bat will hit "more" balls hard and thus increase the chances of injurying someone, especially a pitcher.
One only has to follow the age brackets that use both. College games have more hits, home runs, hard hit balls, runs scored, more offense than the college wood bat leagues.
We hold both metal and wood bat tournaments. The metal bat tournaments have much more offense and hard hit balls. More offense means more hitters and larger sweet spot means more hard hit balls.
Neither wood or metal is safe. But "chances" of serious injury are less with wood.
Great points Jerry. Give a hitter a choice between metal and wood... they'll always choose the metal bat because they gain advantage with the bigger sweet spot. Question is, does it make the game better? Not in my book. And when hitters lose that advantage as they transition to pro ball, can they still hit with a real bat?
I'll add one more point that is often overlooked. As the metal bat adds offense it also adds to the pitch counts, thus putting more stress on pitchers' arms and increasing the risk for arm injuries. Looking at it long term, and from a money standpoint, how can baseball fans prefer metal bats? The pros use wood. If marketing is king, why not use what the pros use?
I'll add one more point that is often overlooked. As the metal bat adds offense it also adds to the pitch counts, thus putting more stress on pitchers' arms and increasing the risk for arm injuries. Looking at it long term, and from a money standpoint, how can baseball fans prefer metal bats? The pros use wood. If marketing is king, why not use what the pros use?
quote:Originally posted by spizzlepop:
I'll add one more point that is often overlooked. As the metal bat adds offense it also adds to the pitch counts, thus putting more stress on pitchers' arms and increasing the risk for arm injuries.
Excellent point, and one which is not addressed when the conversation turns to the frequency arm injuries and surgeries.
Injuries are a part of baseball, but it appears that they can be lessened with the use of wood bats.
My prayers and sympathies go out to this young man and his family what a tragedy.
I don't know if it is metal or wood. I don't know if it would have made a difference. I am astounded by the circumstances that must align for these tragedies to happen. Every day, millions of balls are hit. Over the course of a season it probably runs into the billions. To throw a pitch and it hit the bat at the exact spot necessary for it to travel and hit a player or coach, in a place to cause injury or death, the probabilities must be astronomical.
Whenever I read or hear one of these stories, I remember vividly that night in Arkansas last summer. I try to comprehend the probabilities of that ball hitting that man at that spot. I have trouble getting my mind around the randomness and improbability. I have no idea what these parents are going through and if in their grief and loss, this is what it takes to make the pain of the improbability go away, then who am I to quibble. I hope they get answers. My fear is that it will only create more questions.
I don't know if it is metal or wood. I don't know if it would have made a difference. I am astounded by the circumstances that must align for these tragedies to happen. Every day, millions of balls are hit. Over the course of a season it probably runs into the billions. To throw a pitch and it hit the bat at the exact spot necessary for it to travel and hit a player or coach, in a place to cause injury or death, the probabilities must be astronomical.
Whenever I read or hear one of these stories, I remember vividly that night in Arkansas last summer. I try to comprehend the probabilities of that ball hitting that man at that spot. I have trouble getting my mind around the randomness and improbability. I have no idea what these parents are going through and if in their grief and loss, this is what it takes to make the pain of the improbability go away, then who am I to quibble. I hope they get answers. My fear is that it will only create more questions.
quote:The suit also will name Little League Baseball, and the Sports Authority, which sold the bat. It claims the defendants knew, or should have known, that the bat was dangerous for children to use, according to the family's attorney.
And where is the parents' responsibility in this? They SHOULD have known too!
Pitcher 18;
In 1987, when I created the Area Code games, the pro scouts and myself made it "mandatory" to use wood bats.
This has never been a problem to the player or parent. If they want to play they will use WOOD.
Last year, I sent a communication to the Japan High School Baseball Federation that unless they use wood bats in our Goodwill Series [25 years].
We now have cancelled the Japan Goodwill Series. The national federations of China, Korea and Australia have agreed to use wood bats in our Goodwill Series.
It is my personal decision, not to expose our young pitching prospects to a serious injury.
Bob
In 1987, when I created the Area Code games, the pro scouts and myself made it "mandatory" to use wood bats.
This has never been a problem to the player or parent. If they want to play they will use WOOD.
Last year, I sent a communication to the Japan High School Baseball Federation that unless they use wood bats in our Goodwill Series [25 years].
We now have cancelled the Japan Goodwill Series. The national federations of China, Korea and Australia have agreed to use wood bats in our Goodwill Series.
It is my personal decision, not to expose our young pitching prospects to a serious injury.
Bob
quote:I don't know if it is metal or wood. I don't know if it would have made a difference.
Here's the misconception regarding commotio cordis. It's not a severity of impact injury. It's a split second timing injury. A pitcher would be just as likely to be killed by a soft liner if it hit him in the right split second (obviously he would have a better chance to catch a soft liner). The leading cause of death by commotio cordis is children falling off playground equipment. I don't think they're hitting the ground at the speed a ball comes off a metal bat.
Any of us that have seen lots of games with metal bats, and that would likely be all of us, cannot deny how balls come off of the metal bats. It is dangerous, pure and simple. Injuries can occur with wooden bats too, but the "exit speed" off of the sweet spot on a metal bat isn't the same as wood. Period. We all see that.
Do we listen to the expert engineers trotted out by Louisville Slugger, Nike, et als, the President of Little League, Inc, whose organization undoubtedly gets donations from equipment suppliers, or are we going to believe our lying eyes?
An HBO special on exit speeds several years ago made it pretty clear-the test that supposedly is designed to make sure exit speeds (BESR) are the same uses unrealistic swing and pitch speeds. With realistic speeds, at least for high school and college players (the focus of the show),the exit speed for metal bats goes off of the chart.
I confess to being an attorney, and despise frivolous litigation, but sometimes things won't change unless somebody's pocketbook gets hit big time. One of the first rules of business-if you want to know what the issue really is, follow the money...
Do we listen to the expert engineers trotted out by Louisville Slugger, Nike, et als, the President of Little League, Inc, whose organization undoubtedly gets donations from equipment suppliers, or are we going to believe our lying eyes?
An HBO special on exit speeds several years ago made it pretty clear-the test that supposedly is designed to make sure exit speeds (BESR) are the same uses unrealistic swing and pitch speeds. With realistic speeds, at least for high school and college players (the focus of the show),the exit speed for metal bats goes off of the chart.
I confess to being an attorney, and despise frivolous litigation, but sometimes things won't change unless somebody's pocketbook gets hit big time. One of the first rules of business-if you want to know what the issue really is, follow the money...
I feel compelled to comment on this thread given my family’s firsthand experience with our son being struck in the face by a ball hit with a wooden bat in the Cape Cod League two summers ago.
First and foremost I must state unequivocally that I am 100% against the use of metal bats at any level of baseball.
How did this view come about?
Obviously, our son’s accident, even though it was with a wooden bat, caused me to think a lot more about all of this. But the real instigating event was about a year later when a leading manufacturer of metal bats approached me and told me how they were using my son’s accident as an example in state legislatures of the un-safety of ALL baseball bats and how their bats were no worse than wood bats.
I asked them to NEVER use my son as an example for their business again. I do not know if they did or not. But it sure caused me to read, and read, and read about the topic because this particular bat company challenged me to ‘use my science/engineering background to realize that metal bats are no less safe.’
My read of the literature detailing “scientific experiments” including ones conducted by the NCAA led me to conclude, as an engineer, that there is little (if any) question that risks for injury increase when metal bats are used.
But yes, when you walk on the field you assume risk. No question. We never, ever considered filing a lawsuit against anyone following our son’s accident. To me, it was a freak thing and part of the assumed risk.
However, given that we all know that metal bat manufacturers are perpetuating what I believe to be a half-truth (I’m being kind there), if my son were permanently disabled by a metal bat…I most certainly would consider filing a lawsuit. Furthermore, baseball organizations do know of the risks as well (or they’re ignoring the science IMO) and they should be held accountable too.
Lastly, who the heck are we to judge this family’s motivation in filing a lawsuit. Have any of us been put in the situation they’re in? Hopefully not…and therefore we cannot possibly know how they feel, what their motivations are (other than caring for their son) or any possible snubs they may have received from the folks they are suing. They’ve lost part of their son…this isn’t a McDonald’s spilt coffee lawsuit…lets show some compassion and let them play this out in the manner they want.
IMO, the whole metal bat industry is making big bucks and highly motivated to keep them in the game. That also makes them fair game to pay for an accident if someone wants to give it a shot. Let the jury decide.
JMO, nothing more.
First and foremost I must state unequivocally that I am 100% against the use of metal bats at any level of baseball.
How did this view come about?
Obviously, our son’s accident, even though it was with a wooden bat, caused me to think a lot more about all of this. But the real instigating event was about a year later when a leading manufacturer of metal bats approached me and told me how they were using my son’s accident as an example in state legislatures of the un-safety of ALL baseball bats and how their bats were no worse than wood bats.
I asked them to NEVER use my son as an example for their business again. I do not know if they did or not. But it sure caused me to read, and read, and read about the topic because this particular bat company challenged me to ‘use my science/engineering background to realize that metal bats are no less safe.’
My read of the literature detailing “scientific experiments” including ones conducted by the NCAA led me to conclude, as an engineer, that there is little (if any) question that risks for injury increase when metal bats are used.
But yes, when you walk on the field you assume risk. No question. We never, ever considered filing a lawsuit against anyone following our son’s accident. To me, it was a freak thing and part of the assumed risk.
However, given that we all know that metal bat manufacturers are perpetuating what I believe to be a half-truth (I’m being kind there), if my son were permanently disabled by a metal bat…I most certainly would consider filing a lawsuit. Furthermore, baseball organizations do know of the risks as well (or they’re ignoring the science IMO) and they should be held accountable too.
Lastly, who the heck are we to judge this family’s motivation in filing a lawsuit. Have any of us been put in the situation they’re in? Hopefully not…and therefore we cannot possibly know how they feel, what their motivations are (other than caring for their son) or any possible snubs they may have received from the folks they are suing. They’ve lost part of their son…this isn’t a McDonald’s spilt coffee lawsuit…lets show some compassion and let them play this out in the manner they want.
IMO, the whole metal bat industry is making big bucks and highly motivated to keep them in the game. That also makes them fair game to pay for an accident if someone wants to give it a shot. Let the jury decide.
JMO, nothing more.
quote:Let the jury decide
We shouldn't presume to know the whole story from one or two "news" accounts.
And it's not about assuming risk or rampant victimhood. It's about probably not having the full story.
There is, for example, that infamous McDonald's Coffee Case that's become the poster child for frivolous lawsuits. Unless you read more deeply:
Hot Coffee
And it's not about assuming risk or rampant victimhood. It's about probably not having the full story.
There is, for example, that infamous McDonald's Coffee Case that's become the poster child for frivolous lawsuits. Unless you read more deeply:
Hot Coffee
quote:Originally posted by RJM:Bat rep: "How many $12 bats do you buy for a team over three years? Here's a Worth Six Pack. It's $100. The bats will last 3-5 years." You do the math. It was a no brainer decision.quote:I would like to see just how and why they "sold" youth leagues on metal bats in the first place.
When metal bats first came out they didn't have pop. They were nothing more than pipes with a handle. I preferred wood.
The math has been complete for years.
It's the econ analy's that conclude something that's just not there.
Simply put, wood bat are far more economically over the lifetime than metal.
Why? Wood bat may now cost about $25 bucks.
At the amateur level, need about 5 per year,
and if the young lad either glues, tapes or nails a repairable broken bat for bips, its about 4 per year. Call it $100.
Metal bat, on the high end, are in the $250.
Many of the econ analy's guys say metal bats last
3-4 years. That's balognie. Metal bats last less than a year. College World Series time, many Mom's and Dad's end up buying a new metal bat yearly.
Should one be a gorilla, that scenario is a no brainer.
QED
quote:Originally posted by Orlando:
There is, for example, that infamous McDonald's Coffee Case that's become the poster child for frivolous lawsuits. [/URL]
Sorry charlie. The frivolous lawsuit of all time is the Judge, a pair of pants, and the cleaners!
Enough said!
I don't know if you'll be able to see a replay, but Albert Pujols just hit a Padres pitcher between the eyes with a line drive. The pitcher was bleeding, but he did get up and left the field under his own power.