Youth Mixed Martial Arts (MMA)

o44, If there drawing blood in a youth MMA.
Then there Wrong.
No martial art's should be allowed to cause undo pain or cause facial shot's.
If this is just ground and pound. Then the parent's and the organizer's should be arrested for child abuse.
EH

OB,
Curious as to the responses. If folks were appalled at Para and Fielder pushing and shoving, can just imagine how they will feel about this!

I also find it very troubling... I know many of us had our dustups with other kids growing up - but those were spontaneous and usually ended in a bloody nose.

These organized fights, where the youth fighters are trained to do real damage (or can certainly learn from watching TV) simply have me shaking my head. I can think of very little that would be more wrong than this....

08

Maybe if we taught our baseball-playing children MMA, they'd be able to land a punch when they charge the mound:

I was not aware of this; and as someone who spent four years very heavily involved in martial arts, mainly kenpo, I am really disturbed by this development.

Martial Arts can be a very beneficial sport to engage in. Kids can learn things that will benefit them for life, but I can see no benefit that will come from small kids beating the tar out of each other. The really bad thing, in my mind, is that if they're truly learning different martial arts styles, they can learn techniques that will enable them to seriously injure other kids, very seriously injure them. If this trend really is picking up steam, I believe that the federations that govern some of the disciplines should consider stepping in to oversee the practice, and hopefully to regulate it.

I would never allow a child to attend classes at any dojo that sanctions this type of activity for young kids. By this, I mean full contact fighting.

A good friend of mine is an MMA fighter, and he also owns a franchise chain of MMA training centers. His outfits work with lots of kids.

As far as I know, the youth training and competitions do not involve full contact. I will ask him.

He is a former NCAA champ wrestler, and Olympic Siver medalist Greco Roman wrestler, and now is running for state rep in Oregon.Matt Lindland is his name,

Back in my younger days when I & my son was studying the martial arts, the full contact competitions were closely monitored. Everyone wore head, hand and foot pads. There was contact allowed but certain areas of the body were off limits (such as kicks to the head) and certain attacks (various sweeps) were not allowed due to the danger of serious injury. If you could not control your body and the attacks you made, you were subject to swift disqualification.

I never had a problem with this. You would get some bruised or a bloody nose but not much else than minor injuries.

To generate interest and to make it more exciting, it appears things may have changed in the last 5 or 6 years.

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Again, fully understand, appreciate and value the role that martial arts can play...discpline, self defense, confidence...

The OTL segment was fair in it's portrayal...

Segement said that at this time that there is a wide range of training and competitive avenues...but it also left the impression that it is a definite work in progress and that the goals, training methods, protections and lee-way given vary dramatically...and understandibly. Also left the impression that even those who are the "Good guys" are worried about the current abuse. It is a fine line between healthy competition with a lifetime goal and child abuse.

44
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quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
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Segement said that at this time that there is a wide range of training and competitive avenues...but it also left the impression that it is a definite work in progress and that the goals, training methods, protections and lee-way given vary dramatically...and understandibly. Also left the impression that even those who are the "Good guys" are worried about the current abuse. It is a fine line between healthy competition with a lifetime goal and child abuse.

44
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Couldn't the above quote be applied to all youth sports ?

FWIW I think MMA should be an 18 and over activity for the full contact version. It takes quite some time to acquire real skills in each discipline and hopefully this "sport" will recognize that and deter children from competing until properly trained and able to decide for themself whether or not to participate. Way too much potential for overbearing parents to push kids into this activity.

I did the martial arts thing for many years. Fighting "kumate" was very big part of it. Live combat is essential to hone the skills that you learn over the years. And yes, we would take teams to tournaments local regional and national. All age groups. The fighting we did at the dojo was the real deal and was rough. The tournaments were totally different though. They were full contact, but point system based which stressed skill rather than brut force.
I don't know what MMA is, but if it is training kids just for the purpose of tournament fighting I think it is a waste. If it is an extension of a full martial arts program than I'm ok with.

It is a sport, and combat sports have been around forever.

I have seen a lot of kids in these MA tournaments and the most serious injury I ever saw was a bloody nose. However wrestling which seems to be universally accepted has a ton of injuries associated with it, some very serious. From broken necks to dislocated shoulders. Furthermore, the things wrestlers do to meet weight class are very unhealthy. Last fall I was at a very large multi purpose sports facility and there was a big wrestling tournament going on, I couldn't help but notice the ambulance sitting outside.

What about football? The meanest dudes I ever met wore football uniforms and stepped on the field with a single purpose. Destroy!

My injuries:
Football- broken ankle, broken collar bone, broken fingers, concussion.
Baseball- dislocated shoulder, hyperextended knee, testicle torsion, concussion.
Ma fighting- bruises

It seems society finds sport fighting distasteful, yet 2 kids running full speed and violently colliding is ok. Same goes with wrestling, 2 kids tied up in knots chocking and bending each other is ok, but 2 kids wearing padded gloves, helmets and throwing punches is not.

I would much rather take a nasty roudhouse kick to the jaw than get stuck by an unblocked linebacker at the line of scrimmage. Ive had em both, the kick is nicer.

To answer the question. I don't beleive tournament fighting, in any form will ever be that big. If it ever got to the scale of gymnastics I would be shocked. The turnover in a Dojo is very high and its not for everybody.

One more thing, a well trained martial artist is much less likely to be involved in a public fight than most others.

As far as overbearing parents go, abuse can occur in any sport.

Michaels Dad,

When I did it, sweeps and head shots were allowed, In fact, clean headshots kick or fist scored the best. What was not allowed were crotch shots or a leg "kick" anywear below the waist.
The sweep was a key move against over aggressive kickers, kind of surprised they don't allow it.
Probably a good idea with the young ones though.

Some pretty even handed responses here. TD, thanks for giving some perspective.

At West Point, boxing is a required course for all cadets. The real reason for it, is that most of these cadets have never been in a knock down, drag out scrape before, and they need to learn that you won't die by getting punched in the face.

My son, 6'5" 215 lbs, was very apprehensive about the course, knowing he would be paired up with big strong guys just like him. He thought his bell would ring from class one to the end. He actually wound up really enjoying boxing and getting a healthy appreciation for "the sweet science". He now attends collegiate boxing matches and his understanding leads to his enjoyment.

I think some of the rise in popularity in MMA is a direct result of the corruption in boxing at many levels. Man on Man contact sports can be pretty hard to swallow if there's agendas or scripts at work. MMA has to this point avoided that perception.

Having served with some truly tough guys in the Army, I can say that in nearly most cases, you'd never know these people were as deadly as they were by interacting with them. I think that's the true consequence of "being able to handle oneself"...a mixture of confidence and humility, which manifests itself as avoidance of violence.

On the other hand, raising children to be violent and aggressive could be a very double edged sword. I would be afraid that it might teach my son that things can be gotten in life through aggressive intimidation.

I personally do not watch MMA. To be quite honest, it elicits to many aggressive tendancies in me that are better left dormant. Although my defects in this regard may not be in the median range, I'm sure I'm not alone there either. It would be tragic for me to find out too late that it affected my children negatively.

I just looked up MMA fighting. WOW kids are doing that? Back in my day that kind of fighting only happened when you went pro.

Are you saying they are letting kids with light hand pads, no feetpads, no helmet pound on each other. WTF!

There has to be some strict guidelines, isn't there?

The guys I knew that fought pro in cage matches definitly didn't do it as kids.

I like contact and combat sports but I wouldn't let my kid do that. I could be wrong, but it seems to promote aggression. I good MA program does the opposite.

My buddy's training center doesn't allow that. Here's his website.

quote:

Am I being overly sensitive/PC/showing my age thinking that sitting on the sideline whooping and hollering for my kid to simply beat the living tar out of another kid is just fundamentally wrong?

No you are not imho.

I think there are ways to allow kids to participate in the martial arts. I agree with TD and CPLZ that in order to properly learn the martial arts you have to mix it up and experience some contact. That does not mean no-holds barred however. Gold Gloves boxing provides a pretty good model as I think there are reasonable controls there. Head protection, no hitting below the belt, and only 3 three-minute rounds per match.

If what you are describing is a gladiator-style blood sport as it is in adult Octagon events, then people ought to be sent to prison for that. That includes organizers, coaches, and parents who condone it.

I love MMA, but it is not for kids. If a dad wants to train his son for MMA he should put him in wrestling.

quote:

Originally posted by westcoastbuckeye:
I love MMA, but it is not for kids. If a dad wants to train his son for MMA he should put him in wrestling.

Amateur wresting is one of the most underrated sports from an entertainment value. A good high school team can put on a great show.

While I won't condone a violent approach even if its supervised, I practiced Kenpo for many years. I learned from some older asian men that in its current form, all martial arts have lost their meaning. The words "martial arts" come from the art of war or fighting. They are all just a dance these days, Even competition is just an organzied, supervised dance. The mma is going back to more of the original japanese and chinese practices of learning how to defeat your opponent. It was done with grace, style and courtesy back in the day. I do not believe thats possible today and I also firmly believe that a kid should be a man before he practices such art. Before 18 they should continue the dance. After 18 its a personal choice.

I hope that what everyone who reads this takes away is the concurrence of opinion by those of us who've spent years in dojos learning various disciplines of martial arts. Just as others have said, there is a lot of heavy contact once you reach a certain stage. That's OK, and an expected aspect of training. A key point to understand is that in virtually NO instance does this full contact fighting include youth students.

The dojo where I learned and practiced had kids as young as perhaps 6 or 7 years old, but lots of teenagers and adults. Many were people who tried it for a short while and gave it up. Others practiced for years. In my own case, I walked away when some injuries (torn ligaments in my back and knee) from fighting caused me to reconsider, and those still bother me to this day, approximately ten years later. Of those who competed (our main tournament that we competed in each year was the Ed Parker Kenpo tournament in Long Beach) you never saw young kids doing anything that involved heavy enough contact to hurt anyone. Adults, that was another story. I've had my butt whipped by a woman before, and especially by a couple instructors who were champion kickboxers. That's ok to do when you are an adult and can make those choices. A key aspect of the self defense training of our dojo was for women to fight off men (yes, we were told not to hurt the women, but to pressure them strongly) to make them as prepared for a real self defense situation as possible. Even with a cup, getting kicked you know where by a 150 pound woman will ruin your day, or week! The difference is, these were adults doing this, NOT kids.

It IS NOT ok when the full contact participant is a young kid who's only trying this sport because mom or dad signs them up for it. Full contact for any young kid is inappropriate, and I challenge anyone to argue otherwise. I think that martial arts are a wonderful activity for children but not full contact in any manner. Judo is about as close as I'd ever get to allowing a youngster to participate in full contact, and I don't think Judo is appropriate for kids until they're probably around 10-12 years old. just my opinion.

Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's right.

There are a ton of great things to take away from martial arts but horrible parents see something on TV and they think their kid should do it. It's wrong on so many levels.

If they want to have MMA for kids then it should be mandatory that each parent take on a highly skilled MMA fighter. Let them see what's in store for their kids first.

Once you become 18 then it's your decision. Do whatever you want that is legal.