Youth Sports Photography

Well, the subject is right up my alley as I've been doing youth sports photography for almost 4 years now. Ready to give it up though.

I never just showed up somewhere and started taking pictures. I presume your intent is to do so and then pass out cards with the web address to parents? If so, don't waste your time. That kind of speculation won't make you much money.

Get involved with a tournament director and sell him on how having an action photographer at his tournaments will enhance the event. Some might want a cut of sales but some don't. Then, you can setup a booth and either hand out flyers with the web address or print proofs right there and take orders which is what we do.

I can tell you that sales are diminishing now that most people are in the digital age these days and can take alot of their own shots. Back when I started in 2002, I was the only guy around that had a DSLR, three of them actually and made alot of money doing it. Now days, you can take great action shots with a $350 digital camera with a 10X zoom. It's not as profitable as it once was.

Stick to kids under 12 if you persue this. The older kids parents already have a boat load of photos and don't spend that much money on them.

As far as showing up at a public location and taking pictures of children, although probably legal, I wouldn't do it. Not much to gain and a parent could cause you more trouble than you care to deal with.

Redhawks,
Thanks for the info. I don't intend to just show up and take photos and hand out cards. I am going to set up a mobile photo lab and print onsite. I have many connections with leagues and large tourament directors and i will sign contracts for any event I do. I do also want to post the photos online for future sales to relatives that miss games. My question is.. can I post these photos on a website w/o a model release from the parent or player (if 18 or older). If you know or have ever had any problems.

If that is a violation of a law then there are going to be a lot of rich lawyers. Just go to "Google Images" and type in a player's name and see what appears....Here's one of my son picture I've never seen before.

By the way Redhawks... WELCOME to the HSBBW as a new member. I'm sure you will enjoy the sites and all the knowledgeable baseball nuts here! I know I'm glad ya came on board.

Welcome again
MOUNDMASTER

Well, that's exactly what I did and didn't have any problems. I can share with you that internet sales are very poor for a couple of reasons. 1)Very few will take the time to go home and look at them after the fact. It'll probably take you a few days to go through them all and post the saleable ones and by that time, most people have forgotten about them or they've moved on to the next tournament. 2) Looking through a couple hundred photos trying to find "Johnny's" picture is a pain. With the helmets on, it's hard to distinguish the hitters in baseball photos and alot of people have trouble identifying their kid from the photos. Hockey would be even worse with the cages on the helmets but the saving grace is numbers on the jersey sleeves. In hockey, I take the time to sort each player into a folder (because I have jersey numbers) and make it easy for the parents.

Take orders on site by showing proofs. Mom has to see them to buy and if she likes them, she probably will.

STAY AWAY FROM S****R! People do not buy s****r photos, at least action shots.

Hockey is #1 as far as revenue and baseball is second. You should try horse shows too if you can get into any. $40 for an 8x10 is the industry average, or at least was.

I think you'll find that most people won't buy unless you have that "must have" photo. In baseball, you can clean up at a World Series event for 9-12 year olds but the State and qualifying tournaments are pretty dismal these days.

If you would happen to need sports borders for your photos (Photoshop graphics with editable text for tournament name, player name and number, etc...) I have a CD full of them I sell at a reasonable price. All custom made.

If you haven't already made a large investment in DSLR's and lenses, go to a tournament where there is a photographer and see how many orders they get and how much money changes hand by standing nearby. Times have changed since I started and I invested $30,000 in 3 cameras, printers, etc... Luckily that was back when this business was hot and it was worth it. Today I would not even think of doing that.

If it's a big event such as a 50 team tournament, you can't cover it all and will need help which means a whole new set of problems. Finding good photographers and you'll need backup/extra equipment too. Not many photographers want to shoot 12 hours a day in 95 degree heat. I was one of them but I did it cause it was my business.

Think before you leap and I hope whatever you decide it works out well for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
If that is a violation of a law then there are going to be a lot of rich lawyers. Just go to "Google Images" and type in a player's name and see what appears....Here's one of my son picture I've never seen before.

Fungo, You are right that there are a lot of kids action shots on the web. You can run across parents who will complain though and make demands.

Here's an example of what we do in our "Custom services". This is my son ( albeit a couple years ago) so nobdy should complain.

That is a great tribute and very well done! But what if someone else had done it without your permission? Would that be breaking some law? I myself have posted hundreds of pictures of baseball players, coaches, fans, etc. on the internet during the time I was doing two baseball websites. Was I in violation of some law?

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
That is a great tribute and very well done! But what if someone else had done it without your permission? Would that be breaking some law? I myself have posted hundreds of pictures of baseball players, coaches, fans, etc. on the internet during the time I was doing two baseball websites. Was I in violation of some law?

Here's my understanding of photography law. If taken in a public place and you are not on private property when actually taking the photo, it is legal. You've seen the celebs stalked by photographers but as long as they take the photo in public and not while on their property, they can do so. You can't walk up to Jennifer Aniston's bedroom window and take a photo but if she's out in her yard and you're in the street, you can take the photo.

If you are using photos to advertise a product or company, you will need a model release. You cannot use the photo for commercial purposes without the signed model release.

If someone complains, tell them you'll take it down within 24 hours and do so.

If you're just posting photos of your team, ask the parents permission first, just out of respect for the player and parents. The website I did for my team, I had a bio sheet made out and asked the players to complete it and their parents sign it basically saying it was OK for me to post their bio and photos on the website. We never posted addresses or other vital info.

Basically if you're in public, you're fair game for photos. People are in the newspapers all of the time, either pictured or in the background of a photo of another subject. You don't get paid for it and you can't sue. As long as you aren't profiting from the photo, you should be OK but if someone complained, I would respect their request and take down the photo rather than deal with them.

Redhawks27,
Thanks for the information on the photography. That makes a lot of sense. Last week I was shooting stills and a movie of a 7 year old boy during his karate class at the request of his father. Before the class started I had asked the instructor if that was OK and he said no problem. About half way through the class I realized I was taking just as many pictures of his opponent as I was my subject. I thought it only appropriate that I ask his mother if she had any problems. She said of course not. I did make an extra picture CD and a DVD and gave them to her.

I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV.

But I think there are special laws on posting pictures of minors. I would talk this issue over with an attorney before doing anything along those lines.

our high school teams plays our rival at doubleday field in cooperstown.there is a photographer that takes picyures of all the players,about a 100 pictures.he then puts them on his website and parents can buy them.great idea but i never could find that website.what parent wouldn't want a picture of your son on doubleday field.

20dad,
With all the weirdos on the internet today there are some parents who are concerned about having their son/daughters photos posted online and I respect their right to feel that way. I have been researching this topic a little more. From what I understand you can post any photo if it is informational or a news item. I am still a little confused and will try to find a lawyer who knows photography law. From what I have gathered so far the best thing to do is have a password protected site for parents to view the photos. Also the law states that the photos can not be used commerically without a model release. Most photographers feel that this means using the photos to promote a product (ie COKE PEPSI and so on) and selling the photos to parents and relatives does not fall under commercialism. But, most say (as Redhawks stated) that if a parent requests their childs photo be removed to do so as soon as possible.

Redhawks,
How do you feel about selling the posted photos? You do make a profit doing it.

FUNGO,
was that photo of your son for sale or just informational?

20dad,
Doubleday field is a great place to play! My sons HS team plays there every year also. Just the feeling when you walk into that old venue made me get goosebumps.

Moundmaster,

If I were exclusively selling photos via internet only, I wouldn't do it. Internet sales for me are generally residual sales after an event. At times, you might get some people who didn't have a chance to make it by your booth at a tournament or after getting home they decide to order some extras for family.

I can build websites so it doesn't take me long to post photos. If you can't do that yourself, you'll have to use a photo hosting service such as www.photoreflect.com which allows you to take orders and you fulfill the orders that Photoreflect notifys you of. They charge 18% so it takes a good chunk of your revenue to use them.

Based on my experience, I think you'd be wasting your time if you plan on internet sales only. IMO, a booth at the event is the only way to generate the revenue you need to make it a worthwhile effort.

FYI, I've never had a parent complain about their child being on one of my sites. First and foremost, no name accompanies the picture so there's no way to know who the kid is unless you know him by face. Secondly, photographers have been doing this for years now and I haven't heard of any major problems.

MOUNDMASTER, check out www.iapep.com, a forum for event photographers if you haven't already. Some of the content is free but they do have a member's only section that you'd have to join to view. I think you'll find it worthwhile.

Other sites to visit would be www.rodgalbraith.com and www.sportsshooter.com

Moundmaster,
Thjose picture are "just" there at "Google Images". You can do whatever you want I guess... Here's a picture of you..

Redhawks... You have a PM

FUNGO.... I resemble that remark!

PM back to you Moundmaster.