Umpire discretion?

I've seen it done many times.  To me, its good...but I suppose others could differ.

Just curious, what age level is this?  I'm guessing it's high school age since a player got ejected, but seems very odd that a parent of a player this age would go ballistic (I usually see this at 10U).  And was this the World Series or something equivalent?  Wow!

Ugh, you mean it doesn't get better after 12u?  We had crazy parents this weekend screaming BALK and RUN IT IN just trying to mess things up....I was really hoping it gets better!

Seems like the umpire fully in his (or her) right to warn the coach. It was not a "gotcha" moment, but the visiting coach probably wanted it to be. As for a player getting tossed vs. the coach, that seems unusual. As for the rabid parent, hopefully in the coolness of a day or so going by, they are rightly ashamed of their behavior and will strive to never let it happen again, or anything close...

17u tournament this weekend - bright and very sunny - we're visting team (3rd base dugout) - they're batting (1st bae dugout) - pop up foul down 1st base line with pitcher and 1B both charging hard - someone sitting in the 3rd base side (parent?) screams "I got it".  Pitcher caught the ball for the out.  On average it might get better but there are still those instances where you almost want to simply pack it in and leave instead of putting up with that nonsense.  There were some other instances of "marginal" behavior from stands and dugout but that was the worst.

I'm very confused.  What rules were being used?

In FED (HS rules), the coach can go out there, unless he has already used up all his conferences.  In that case, the umpire is to refuse the conference.

IN OBR, the coach can go back out there, and it's the first visit to the new pitcher.  No need to change.

If somehow the coach had already used his visit, and the pitcher hadn't completed facing a batter, then the umpire is to warn the coach.  Even if the coach isn't warned (or ignores the warning), the requirement to face a batter supersedes this -- so the pitcher would have faced the last batter anyway.

Under OBR and NCAA, this is not permissible as it is a second conference with the same batter at bat. The manager will be ejected.

Under FED, it would depend on how many charged conferences the team had to that point. If it was three or less, the new pitcher would not have to be removed. If it was four or more, he would have to be removed after facing a batter, and the manager ejected.

Assuming the visit would have not been permissible, the umpire has to warn the manager that the visit would be illegal. 

Reminding a coach when defensive charged conferences end falls within the category of preventive officiating.

Previous tensions in the game do not affect the propriety of the umpire's action, and neither does previous bad conduct on the part of the visiting coach and parents.

If the opposing coach thought the coach's actions on the aborted return trip constituted another defensive charged conference, the time to have raised the issue would have been before the next pitch was delivered. After the game, it's just pointless venting.

This is why we don't stick around for the handshakes.

As for the kid lowering the shoulder...how many people said "He isn't a bad kid?" Every time I have ever ejected for MC, that comment has been stated multiple times, as if I'm making some sort of judgment of his character.

My mood is 100% better when we lose to a well manner, gracious team versus a team where either the player(s), parent(s) or both are obnoxious or unsportsmanlike.  Some might say it should not matter - a loss is a loss - but one reason I wanted my kid to pay high school baseball is for both the relationships with players/coaches on his team but also some of the local rivals' players/coaches.  Nothing like seeing Saturday's opposing pitcher at chuch on Sunday.  For that matter, I don't feel great when we beat the obnoxious team - always hate it when I start asuming every player is some sort of jerk when I know that is 99% of the time not the case and oftentimes they may all be great kids that just happen to have obnoxious parents or coaches.

On the topic of umpire discretion, is there a ruling for player and/or fan verbal interference?  Have seen some comments here about player interference but didn't know if anything applied to fans shouting out.

No. Fans are fans--short of physically interfering, there is nothing illegal about their actions. If fans are getting out of hand verbally to the point of interfering with game play, then the proper way to deal with it is to suspend play and have game management remove the offenders or take whatever action they feel appropriate to stop the activity.

I heard a rec dept director yelling distractions during fielding plays to young players at a recent district tournament...uggggh!

Very likely.  I worked a doubleheader recently in which the fans were pretty well behaved except for one dad who was hanging over the fence near third base, screaming about even the calls that weren't close.

After the game, as my partner and I walked toward the parking lot, we passed by where he was sitting, slumped down on a bench along the sidewalk. Even though his team had won two games, he looked dejected. 

"I'm sorry, Guys," he said. "I gotta learn when to keep my mouth shut."

"We're both baseball dads, too. Have a nice evening, Sir."

For the most part it does get better.  By the time they are playing V at the HS level everyone has pretty much settled down.  You still get an occasional player or dad who is obnoxious but thats more the rarity.  My college aged son umps and he pretty much refuses to ump anything under 12u.  As he puts it "Dad, the kids are fine, in fact they are fun, its the parents, at this age, who think their son is the next Jeeter who I can't stand."

That does explain SOME of the quality of umps we get below 12u!

We had one ump last year say "That's it, I'm done, this is my last game, I am not putting up with this EVER again, I am a MAN!!"...on the bright side he DID finish the game, on the down side he kept saying the words "I am a MAN I will not be spoken to this way" usually while the kids were in the batters box he could be heard grumbling.

Both sets of kids in the hand shaking line took great delight in saying to each other as they high fived "I am a MAN" while peeling with laughter at witnessing this poor MAN's meltdown, on top of typical abuse the MAN did receive two shots to the adams apple that day, our side wished him well and thanked him for finishing the game.

Just my experience, but it doesn't get better until the college level.  It's very rare I've seen parents with behavioral problems at the college level.  By HS level (JV/Varsity) it had calmed down some, but still had some hot heads - especially during district or conference games that had a lot on the line.

This was a Legion game with the majority of the players from rival high schools.

Following the apparent bad call, the visiting coach told the ump multiple times, and very loudly, that his call was bullcrap. Several times, audibile over the entire stadium, bullcrap, bullcrap, bullcrap. I thought he was actually wanting to get tossed, but it didn't happen.

As for the almost mound visit, I wasn't sure it was an issue. Once the pitcher was replaced, it seems as if the coach goes back out, it would have been the 1st mound visit for the new pitcher, but I'm not sure about that. Apprently, by the way the visiting coach reacted, it would have meant he had to replace him...???

The visiting team player who was ejected on the earlier bad call told his dad that he was only asking a question and got tossed. I've "heard" that he clearly used an expletive and that's why he was tossed. The bad call, compounded by the ejection set the dad off. Particularly because the kid told his dad he was just asking a question. If the kid did curse, then he should have owned it to his dad. Would have saved the dad the embarassment.

Maybe the kid really did only ask a question..."Do you suck this bad all the time?"

Just this past weekend:

18u AABC Connie Mack Qualifier. Mom sitting behind the plate telling batter-son where the catcher is setting up. Inside, outside, etc...

It didn't help, 3 Ks

I disagree, Matt.  If:

1) Coach goes out and replaces pitcher

2) Coach leaves

3) Coach returns (before or during the first batter)

Then, this is just the first visit to the new pitcher, and is allowed under OBR and NCAA.

Maybe the coach was mad only because it would have been the first visit, but if the batter got on base, then the visit would restrict the defensive coach's options for later in the inning (no "free" visit left).

The issue isn't to which pitcher the conference is charged. It's who's at bat.  Both OBR and NCAA forbid multiple conferences during the same batter.

NCAA specifically says that the at-bat starts at the moment the previous batter reaches base or is put out. Thus, no second visit allowed.

OBR is vague as to when it starts. Given that the wording on the restrictions is identical, I'm not allowing this...unless there's an interpretation out there that says it is.

Legion games were ALWAYS so out of hand and lawless.

It was the Legion games where I witnessed the worst in parents, fans and players in attendance.  Maybe it was just the teams in our district.  I dunno.  Sad thing was some of those were from our Legion team's recruiting area.

It was really bad when my son first started playing Legion, but was significantly toned down by the last two years he played Legion.  Some of the those early games would have had a PG-13 rating.

This is from MLBUM:

If a coach goes to the mound and removes a pitcher and then the manager goes to the mound to talk with the new pitcher, that will constitute one trip to that new pitcher that inning.

If a manager changes pitchers and leaves the mound, he (or a coach) may come out again to visit the pitcher while the same batter is at bat, but this will constitute one trip to that new pitcher that inning.