Verbal versus admitted

As is so often the case, it requires close and careful communication; at this point between your son (with you close by) and the coaches who are actively recruiting him.

As soon as a coach becomes serious enough about a player to begin talking "offer," he's going to be very interested in your son's admissions profile; specifically, his grades and any scores he's achieved on college admissions exams. He'll have a pretty good idea of his Admissions Department's acceptable thresholds for both grades and exam scores and ought to be able to give you a pretty good idea of your son's probability of getting in.

Coaches are often thought to have more influence upon Admissions decisions than they actually have; but, if a coach is able to exercise any influence, an honest and open dialogue about a recruit's academic credentials early on can serve to position the coach as the player's advocate. This dimension can vary considerably from school to school.

If the coach is encouraging, your son will still have to make certain that he meets all of the Admissions Department's deadlines and requirements; and it's probably a good idea for him to update the Recruiting Coordinator at each major step along the admissions path.

With clear channels of communication open with the coaching staff, the risk of  an unwanted surprise at the time that acceptance letters go out ought to be avoidable.

Best of luck to your son!

Dad our experience was that the coach had already discussed with admissions before the offer, so they had a very good idea he was acceptable and then we went ED.. I am assuming this is not an Ivy school as that is an altogether different animal. PM me if you would like to discuss further and good luck and I remember how awesome it was when the offer came in.Enjoy..

I think it depends on the pull of the coach.  I was told that the coach of a championship caliber program has written in his contract that the school has to admit anybody he wants. 

Dadofa17 - Prepster is right on track.  Your son will have to keep good communication open with the coach in regard to his GPA, SAT/ACT scores.  At a minimum he'll  have to meet the NCAA minimums.  The NCAA Clearinghouse (which he'll have to register with sooner or later) has all the information on requirements for D1/D2 schools.  Not needed for D3 or JuCo.

My son was in a similar situation after two years of JuCo.  A local D3 was really interested in him, but based on his JuCo GPA he would have needed "help" from the coach to get him admitted.  In the end it didn't matter as he received a nice offer from a D2 where he met their and the NCAA minimums.

What you're touching on is one pillar of the "right fit" criteria that we outlined during the recruiting process.  There were three schools in particular that were very interested in my son that were very high academic schools with stringent admissions.  Stanford, Vandy and Notre Dame.  Realistically, I knew that my son would struggle immensely with admissions, and even more once in the schools.  I didn't believe that any of these would be a good fit for my son academically and that any struggles in the classroom would carry over onto the field.

What good would it do him to be at a school where he would be miserable.

All amazing opportunities for the right student, but being completely honest with ourselves, we knew he wasn't the right student.

We were fortunate that he had many great opportunities in addition to those, so we sought the best fit overall, considering academics, campus life, baseball program, facilities, potential to contribute early, offer, etc., etc.

Make sure you have a list of considerations of all the above elements and choose the place that will best suit him.  One RC told us during a visit that you really need to love the school.  He pointed the the baseball field and said that you're going to have days where you hate it out there and want to get away from the field.  If you step out of the stadium onto a campus that you also don't like, you're not going to enjoy your time there.  Make sure you are building the checklist of what's important for your son at the next level and begin checking off the boxes.

"At least one has had him out for a visit and told him they would like to make an offer." 

What stopped them? And what does 'at least one' mean? Was it two? Three?

Don't take this personal, Dadoaf17 -- please. I'm the Dad of a 16. But I've read so many times here lately about coaches saying they WANT TO make an offer; then parents start asking questions.

If they want to, they CAN!! And they DO!! They make verbals to rising HS sophomores, even. Quite often. Your son is a rising junior, so nothing is stopping them. Grades are EASY to get.

So while I completely agree with everything Prepster says ... I'd also tell you that anytime someone says they WANT TO do something that they CAN DO but don't actually do ...

Don't count on it actually happening.

My son was at a camp recently and the PC told him in a private conversation out in RF during warm ups, that "it was great to see him at their camp and that they'd love to have him attend X-University." 

No idea what Dadof17 means and he can shed more light if he wants, but I know from my recent personal experience at this camp mentioned above, if this was a dream school for son and I had my "beer goggles" on, I might have walked away thinking they wanted to make son an offer? 

In no way suggesting Dadofa17 has his "beer goggles" on (have not used that phrase in about 25-years).

Thanks for the replies.  They are very helpful.  When I said a "wants to make an offer".  I mean that the head coach told my son that if he was ready to commit, they would make an offer.  This was during an unofficial visit and I was in the room.  They had asked my son if this was the school he wanted and he told them he liked it, but could not commit yet.  I do believe they want him.  I personally am concerned about him getting admitted so I am trying to better understand the process.  And yes, before he commits anywhere, he will have a detailed conversation with the coach and get all of this ironed out.  As a 2017, I want to be sure he does not verbally commit to a school and then not be able to get in.  

I dont get" would like to make an offer". You either offer or you dont.

Dont worry about admissions until they offer.  If you are worried an early offer may stop him from working in the class and on the field, the he isnt ready to commit.

"After further review of the call on the field, Dadofa17 is NOT, I repeat NOT wearing beer goggles.  Please reset the clock." - #1Assistant Coach

It has been a long time since I wore beer googles.  Maybe they will come back out AFTER my son heads off to school.  I have read a lot on this site about the whole recruiting process.  But I have not seen anything regarding how that relates to the admissions process, so I am just trying to learn.  He does have a top travel coach.  When the time comes, I will also get his feedback before my son actually commits anywhere.  

I found that interesting also.  I would have expected that they would have either told him they were considering him, or we would have left with an offer.  But this is all new to me.  They did call my son last night to ask if we was ready to commit, so I do think there is something there.  I did not hear any of last night's conversation, so I can just go by what a 16 year old passes on....

Be honest with the coach about your concerns of admissions.  We did and were told exactly what would or wouldn't pose problems on getting in with respect to GPA, test scores, etc.  We were very frank where we had concerns about academic success.  The coach doesn't want to bring in a player who won't be eligible any more than you want to send him to a school where he will struggle.

As I mentioned above, we had a minimum baseline of several different elements that we compared between schools.  Academics were one of the criteria.  Basically, we (his parents) had veto power based on two of the criteria, academics and total cost to us.  We let him know if a school was "out" of consideration based on these, and if not, he was free to consider it.

If your kid is a borderline student or just simply not highly motivated on academics, you probably want to do something similar.  Make sure you're fishing in the right holes.  You don't want to learn that you're "gonna need a bigger boat" as you're reeling it in.

Is your son ready to say yes?  If this is the beginning, he needs to understand what early commitment means.

If they offer, then you can get on the phone with them and discuss the process.  

Just sit back and enjoy.

Am I missing something here or is this school"withholding" their offer until the 16yo says he is ready to commit?  This sounds like the cart before the horse.  My 2017 has had "conversations" with a team's PC about a "probable" offer in the near future.  Nice school but it is somewhat early in my opinion (would like to get into HS season) and it would in fact be the first offer.  If they came to my 2017 and required agree first that he was ready to accept/decline offer on the spot, I would probably tell them to not bother.  I'm assuming if an offer is made that it will be available for some period of time and if that window starts to close that the school will start to outline some definitive timeframe.

This is excellent advice from Nuke83, and I agree wholeheartedly. However, I would like to add the flip-side to the conversation. I've heard Admissions people at highly selective schools say that they're turning away many students who would be very successful at their schools simply because they have the luxury of only taking the very best. IOW, many of the applicants who are rejected are very capable of doing the work. So if the student is highly motivated and prepared to put in the work, the opportunity to attend a prestigious university may be tremendous.

A few comments here....

1. Prepster's comments so spot-on...I just don't see how to improve on them.
2. For schools that were going to be a close call admissions-wise, for both sons (who were very good students, but still...), we just flat out asked.  I still remember talking to Stanford Coach Marquess...after 2 hours of mostly him talking, I said, "I have one question - will he get admitted?"  Answer was honest and forthright.  When he later asked for a commitment before the admission decision was 'in,' our answer was, "Once we know he is admitted, we will discuss and get down to business on that."  A few days later, it was all done.  Son was admitted and committed (a little Johnny Cochrane rhyming there - huh?  ).
3. We did hear language with both boys along the lines of, 'We plan/expect/hope to make you an offer,' but without an offer that day or week or month.  I took it seriously.  I think in most cases, the schools did.  Our younger son's ultimate school made their offer about 2-3 months later.  Didn't bother me.  Him neither, he accepted.  I think its a sign of several things - the 'plan/expect/hope' comment - could be they're still evaluating? Could be they're waiting on someone else to decide?  Could be they're still unsure of how much?  None of that bothered me at all.

I'm a very straightforward person - questions like this - admissions?  We just asked.  I feel like we got honest answers each time.

Justbaseball,

When you say your son committed after he was admitted, how did that work?  My son is a junior who has not even taken the SATs yet.  Of course I would love to have an official admissions, but I don't see how that is feasible.  Am I missing something?

Yup - tougher today than 10 years ago because schools like Stanford have to wait before making admission decision.  Recruiting was later back then.  Still, I think just plain asking to get a feel from the coach is the best thing to do.

if you get the fuzzy answer, dig as deep as you wish with the coach. If he wants your son, he should be happy to answer. 

Dadofa17, all so-called "verbal commitments" are subject to the athlete meeting applicable minimum academic standards. In this regard, Stanford is no different from your local diploma factory....except Stanford's standards are surely much higher.

Heck, Vernon Adams, who committed to Oregon last winter to replace Marcus Mariota as a graduate transfer, was not admitted until a couple of weeks ago because he had not passed his last Eastern Washington math test.

A quick browse of the internet shows you that Stanford has lots of 2017 "commitments" out there in lots of sports. These are kids who have "committed" before being admitted. All of these cases are subject to the athlete meeting Stanford's minimum academic standards. It is easier for a coach to provide comfort or assurance about this when the youngster has taken the SAT or ACT.

In your case, where your son has not taken the SAT or ACT, the coach in all honesty cannot give you much assurance on the academic side. You can go to the NCAA eligibility center and see the minimum scores your kid needs to go along with his GPA for NCAA eligibility. This might be good enough for the school in question or they may have higher standards.

Finally, the term "verbal commitment" is a misnomer. All communication is verbal unless it is by smoke signal or emoticon or wink or something like that. The relevant distinction is between "written" commitment, which is legally binding, and "oral" commitment, which usually is not. Conscience is up to each individual.

At the risk of stating what everybody already knows, the spread between minimum standards and what actually earns admittance at Stanford (and Cal, UCLA, Duke, Vandy, the Ivies) is very wide.  These schools get so many applicants that they must reject many, many students each year with incredible academic qualifications.  

A friend of mine was told recently by a Stanford coach that his son's 3.5 was "at the low end" but they could work with it. A 3.5 applicant without a coach behind him would not stand a chance in hell of getting into that school.

Just wanted to clarify a comment that FoxDad made earlier when he stated that the NCAA Clearinghouse (now called the NCAA Eligibility Center) is not needed for D3 or JUCO.

He's correct that it's not needed for Division III.  However, it is VERY important for JUCO if that athlete hopes to transfer to an NCAA Div. I or II program.  An athlete must know their status as an NCAA Qualifier or Non-Qualifier so that they know what academic requirements they must achieve at the JUCO to be eligible when they transfer to an NCAA Division I or II program. 

Which therein begs the question.  Why "commit" early and take yourself off the board when you don't even know if your test scores will be good enough to get in?  I really don't think the current rush to commit by Freshman/sophomores is really good for the kids. 

Golfman-  I wholeheartedly agree with you, but as the dad of a 2017, you are "darned if you do, but darned if you don't" commit.  From my limited experience, with my son over the last two months- seems like it's the system we are stuck with for now.  My son has already had one offer come and go- ACC school- because he was not ready to commit.  I'm ok with that, they were up front, from the beginning- told him they needed one outfielder in 2017, he was top of their list, when he did not commit within a month, they told him they were going to extend other offers, then when another kid committed, they pulled the offer.  no hard feelings on our side. 

That is the problem right now- you either commit or the slots go away. I've had local advice from coaches here that tell us not to rush, that if he's good enough there will be a spot- but I don't think that's the case in the current environment. 

sorry for getting off topic for this thread, just venting I guess.

Our son's have the same challenges.  The school he has been talking with told us they need 2 2017 power hitters.  Once they find them, they move on.  I kid may be the best, but a school will not wait forever.

That coach is qualifying that player prior to offering. If the kid says no then there is no offer. If the kids says yes and offer is made, they can leverage and manipulate the scenario to their advantage...although you hold the power to walk away without committing. If players says yes im ready to commit but only at my dream school, then probably no offer and everybody is moving on. 

I say unless it is dream school do not commit early.

Have they asked for your sons transcript, or his clearinghouse info?

Dadof17.   Left you a pm

I can't believe I am about to say this, but maybe the NCAA needs to step in, protect the kids, and put a stop to this "verbal commitment" madness.  

Dadofa17