Was this handled the right way?

Kids are kids; kids have bad days. A good coach can distinguish cancers on teams from bad days.

I agree goosegg, however the precedent he is setting is that every player now apparently can tell a coach to "F-off" three times (apparently - if the kids really get 3 strikes). That sets a pretty ugly precedent that will spread and perpetuate throughout the program. Plus it shows the kids who tow the line that their coach is a push over.

There's bad days and there are bad people.  A good coach knows the difference.  By allowing this kid to stay the HC is saying F you to the AC.  If I'm the AC I'm having a discussion with HC and he better have a GREAT reason why that went down the way it did or I'm walking.

We are going to win or lose no matter who we put on that field.  If I'm going to spend all that time with a group of people I want them to be people I like being around.

Sure doesn't seem like it was handled in the best manner - you'd think at a minimum the player would be suspended and required to apologize to the AC personally and to the team.  What is missing is the content of the conversation between the HC and the player.  It may be that the player is having personal issues at home or the like, and he lashed out?  Doesn't make it right, but things can be hard on young adults and they don't have the maturity to handle.  If it was just the kid being a jerk though - that is a bad precedent!  Hope this is a one time thing that does not adversely affect your team.

Agreed. Still need to know more. Seems like he should be gone immediately based on your story, but there's more details I'm sure.

IMO, there are bad days and then there is outright rebellion. What he did, in my opinion, was outright rebellion and it started with purposely not bunting, not once but twice. Then it progressed to outright disrespect afterwards. 

I’m 99% sure that kid would be gone. I mean who blows off a bunt sign in practice?

“____________” <——————-insert Allen Iverson rant here. :-/

In all the 4-year schools I know, that sort of behavior will lead to one...and only one... place: as far down the bench as that kid can imagine.  ...and the second "strike" will have him cleaning out his locker.

One can only hope he learned something from the talk with his coach. Otherwise, he's in for a very rude awakening down the road.

Agree, on the surface, the response/punishment definitely doesn't seem nearly adequate...  on the surface.  What is below the surface?  We don't know.  Did it come up in the 30 minute meeting?  Don't know.

Very recently, I dealt with a player issue.  This player is a great kid, a bit of a class clown, gives it all between the lines, very good player but lots of other interests and no baseball aspirations beyond HS, unlike several of his teammates.  He pushes the envelope a bit with showing commitment in attending optional winter conditioning and will be a most likely candidate to call in a bit late or have a doc's appointment.  But he communicates and stays within the required guidelines.

About a month ago, he called in that he would miss a practice and called late the next.  Very uncharacteristically and against our team policy, he was vague about his reason.  I pulled him out for a "discussion".  I contemplated going full ream or opening it up for him to explain why his commitment level wasn't where his teammates needed it to be.   Thank God I chose the latter.  He went on to explain that an immediate family member was dealing with a serious illness.  I got a call later from one of his parents asking that I keep things confidential to make it easier for the family to get through a very tough time.  So, it has become a very difficult line to walk.  My actions with the player, I'm sure, didn't look strong enough to the team and even to the other coaches.  But I can't explain the rationale behind those actions due to the requested confidentiality of the family.  It's what's below the surface, in this case.  

I'm not at all saying this is the same as an FU to the coach.  Maybe the coach just caved to a good player and was too weak in that moment.  But there might be more there.  

As a teacher/coach myself and not knowing what the talk was like behind closed doors, I have a really hard time with how this was handled. I understand that teenagers are still developing physically and emotionally but do we think for one minute that this kid would have received the same consequence if he had been at work and yelled "FU" to his asst. store manager (in front of everyone at a staff meeting)? 

One of my goals as a dad/teacher/coach is to prepare youth for life after high school. Obviously, we want young people to understand the importance of accountability and consequences (good and bad). If player is currently having a difficult time at school, home, etc., then I would most definitely work to counsel and help in any way possible but would still hand out a stiffer penalty then "strike 1."

As someone already noted, this coach has set a precedent that he must now follow with ALL players or he is going to run into some serious team management problems down the road.

Chicago643 posted:

Player was at HS Varsity practice yesterday. Another 2-way player (more of a pitcher than a position player, likely #2 or 3 in pitching rotation, committed to a 4-yr school) was hitting in an intra-squad scrimmage. Asst Coach gave the bunt sign, kid swung and missed (no bunt attempt). Coach yells down to the player that he missed the sign, he was supposed to bunt. Player gets sign again - bunt. Player swings and misses. Coach says "Dude, why are you not bunting?" and player responds with "F-you." This is within earshot of all the team, all heard it, including Asst Coach. Asst Coach tells player to gather his stuff and leave. Player proceeds to do that and HC pulls him into office and talks to him for 30 minutes before sending him home. End of practice, HC addresses team and says "Johnny was wrong, but that was strike 1 for him. He will be back tomorrow."

 

BTW - this is HC's first year at a very storied program with enormous success. Wheels seem to be falling off.

My son came home saying WTF?

Your "open gyms" sound way more advanced than ours. Which explains a lot about our HS program.

Maybe the kid had a bad day and wants to apologize directly to the AC as well as the team today - HC doesn't want to steal his thunder so to speak.

Perhaps we can all meet back in about 2 weeks and get an update.  Way too early to draw any definitive conclusions about the kid's attitude or the HC's remarks same day.  

If the kid comes back laughing and all smiles, then that would also be quite telling.

sounds entitled,   been also been watching too much Domingo

cabbagedad posted:

Agree, on the surface, the response/punishment definitely doesn't seem nearly adequate...  on the surface.  What is below the surface?  We don't know.  Did it come up in the 30 minute meeting?  Don't know.

Very recently, I dealt with a player issue.  This player is a great kid, a bit of a class clown, gives it all between the lines, very good player but lots of other interests and no baseball aspirations beyond HS, unlike several of his teammates.  He pushes the envelope a bit with showing commitment in attending optional winter conditioning and will be a most likely candidate to call in a bit late or have a doc's appointment.  But he communicates and stays within the required guidelines.

About a month ago, he called in that he would miss a practice and called late the next.  Very uncharacteristically and against our team policy, he was vague about his reason.  I pulled him out for a "discussion".  I contemplated going full ream or opening it up for him to explain why his commitment level wasn't where his teammates needed it to be.   Thank God I chose the latter.  He went on to explain that an immediate family member was dealing with a serious illness.  I got a call later from one of the parents that asked I keep things confidential to make it easier for the family to get through a very tough time.  So, it has become a very difficult line to walk.  My actions with the player, I'm sure, didn't look strong enough to the team and even to the other coaches.  But I can't explain the rationale behind those actions due to the requested confidentiality of the family.  It's what's below the surface, in this case.  

I'm not at all saying this is the same as an FU to the coach.  Maybe the coach just caved to a good player and was too weak in that moment.  But there might be more there.  

Coach, what a great way to handle this!  Shows your commitment to your student athletes.  The older I get, the more I find that there is often "more to it than meets the eye" - and you never know what troubles or hardships someone is facing. 

This could have been handled a whole lot better by the HC.  I don't care what the circumstance are.   A player can't be pulling this crap.   I know for a fact this would not have been tolerated by any High School, American Legion or Travel coach my kids played for.   I would have got a phone call, and it would have gone down hill very quickly for my son.  

At the very least the kid owes the AC and team an apology, team suspension, parental meeting to discuss and sort this out.  Possibly some field maintenance duty and an hour long lesson to how to bunt correctly for the team would also be in order.  At the most, he should be kicked off the team.   When his college coach checks up on this recruit that will be an interesting conversation about how he got kicked off the team.

The HC needs to find his spine.   It is probably in the tool shed next to the field rake, tamper and field grooming equipment.

Oh, and BTW, in spite of the sincerity of my story, the player (and team) in the OP's scenario would not have gotten past the second missed bunt sign.  Practice would have come to an abrupt halt before he finished his swing.

Fenway, I typically agree with you, but would you have your son kicked off the team based upon this third hand hearsay?

A player reports what he heard at practice to a dad. Player reports what the HC said to the kid. And based upon this, you would take drastic, possibly life altering action? No context, no trusting the judgement of the adults who were actually present and who should be aware of their kids?  I am not excusing any action/non action taken by the coach; I am saying the coach was there and we'll see where this plays out. Knee jerk reactions are seldom the most reasoned actions. (Would your feelings be the same if you learned the kid - right before practice - was told the family had been evicted and was now homeless? Context, context, context.

i have employed hundreds of teens and young adults over the years in my (since retired) business - many in their first or second jobs. Virtually every time I had issues with their performance (late, no show, etc) and thought I knew, just knew -mind you - the full story, there were circumstances I wasn't aware of - the drug overdoses, the parental illnesses, the overwhelming feelings of life closing in. And I was simply an employer, not a coach, not a mentor, not paid to place their lives in context. 

The movie Sandlot said it something like this: baseball is life. Life - especially at the younger end - is all about learning, building a soul, and building on experiences. We all believe that baseball is a great vehicle for this. As we all know, the road is twisty, rocky, and full of bumps. A coaches job (especially pre-college) is moving these teens forward towards real life; I'll go with the coach who was there over third hand hearsay. (For all we know, the kid will be running laps the entire season and will not see the field. Many times it's easier to quit/be fired then be forced to stick it out.)

Rant over.

fenwaysouth posted:

This could have been handled a whole lot better by the HC.  I don't care what the circumstance are.   A player can't be pulling this crap.   I know for a fact this would not have been tolerated by any High School, American Legion or Travel coach my kids played for.   I would have got a phone call, and it would have gone down hill very quickly for my son.  

At the very least the kid owes the AC and team an apology, team suspension, parental meeting to discuss and sort this out.  Possibly some field maintenance duty and an hour long lesson to how to bunt correctly for the team would also be in order.  At the most, he should be kicked off the team.   When his college coach checks up on this recruit that will be an interesting conversation about how he got kicked off the team.

The HC needs to find his spine.   It is probably in the tool shed next to the field rake, tamper and field grooming equipment.

We’re cut from the same cloth, Fenway...and I’m a big believer in second chances.  The level of disrespect here is really concerning to me, but again, this is my opinion. 

Does anyone here think that he would do that next year in college? I don’t. 

Disclaimer: My comments are solely based on the situation happening exactly as described by the OP.

My opinions are subject to change if facts and true accounts where lost in translation. :-)

I think it was a good time for a teaching moment.  Even giving the benefit of the doubt that there were bigger issues going on with the kid, there are ways to handle pain/hurt/stress whatever.  I would certainly show empathy for his situation (if there is one) but also explain that his reaction was unacceptable and as his coach, while I sympathize, there are still consequences.  That is life.

Run him till he vomits, then run him some more.