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Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
I understand that there are huge velocity ranges, but is there speed that would be a deal breaker no matter how good you are at other things?
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
"How good you are at other things"... What do you mean, specifically? Are you talking about being a two way player? Pitching and playing another position as well? Or being a Pitcher/DH? That kind of thing There are pitchers at the low level D3's that throw high 70's to low 80's
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
By "other things i mostly meant control and off speed.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
We'll see what others I have to say. I've personally seen plenty of D3 pitchers throw fastballs in the high 70's in games. Generally most will say you need to throw 80 to get college interest at the lowest levels 85+ as a lefty pitcher will get you D1 interest. High 80's as a right hand pitcher for D1
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
No. There is not one speed or situation where a coach is going to say I'm not interested. There is more to pitching than velocity and I could rattle off a dozen or so things a college recruiter is going to look at holistically to make a determination if they are initially interested in a recruit. If you want an answer, I think you are going to have to ask the coach themselves and I really don't think that is a good question to ask. I think a better question would be to ask "what are the...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
check out this topic. There is some good research in it. http://community.hsbaseballweb...r-at-certain-schools
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Answer that Dads want to hear: 75 and your son is that special snowflake Answer that is more close to real: 87-93 at least once in front of a scout, depending on school, for weekend starters (Dad thought bubble... but, but I saw a kid throw a few two seamers in relief in a D3 game during the week once at 78..) Think of this as a pyramid. Hundreds can touch 90, Thousands can touch 85. Everyone else can touch 80. Which group do you want to be in? Which group do you want to recruit from?
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
All the answers above are right, and there are many more that are right depending on the situation. Our younger son, 5-10 RHP, 85 mph in HS, pitched at a Power-5 school and left barely touching 90 but as the all-time innings-pitched leader at that school. "Spectacular command" is how one scout describes him (now pitching in double-A). So when you say, "By other things i mostly meant control and off speed," I say, yeah, he has/had all of that. But your definition, mine and a college coach's...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
This is research from 2012 in regards to what it Velocity wise to play DI, obviously a little dated, and only focuses on DI but this should give you a better idea. However, for a variety of reasons, "all over the map" does not equate to "random distribution". HS pitchers who aspire to pitch in college should have a reasonable idea of where they fit in by the end of summer following their Junior year. Important disclaimer: Although people often offer the fuzzy disclaimer that "velocity is...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Son is RHP at a mid-major. He was getting looks from D2 and D3's once he hit 85, but he was also an all-state SS. Never really talked to any of them, but there was real interest. Ended up getting D1 interest and offer once he was consistently 87...touching 90. He is now a junior. Their pitching staff now has 5 guys who can be at 90 pretty consistently....all RHP. Several guys 85-86, a few 87-88 and a lefty juco guy who is not much over 80. He has friends from his years of travel that are at...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
I went to PG and looked at the top 100 college recruiting classes for 2019s. As expected the top 25 are all loaded with 90+ RHPs, plus I must add 12-15 recruits per school (seems like too many to me). Anyway as the poser above states below that the drop off is significant. I always tell the anecdote of the BIG 12 tourney a few years back in OKC when Baylor played WVU and the Baylor kid hit 87 once and the LHP from WVU never hit 80. 2013 or 2014 I think.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
After all the pitchers I've seen over the years, I've developed an inner radar..........no its not accurate........I call it " 80's"...... Get there (or near) and you can pitch somewhere ......( CC, NAIA, D3,2,..etc..)...And you need one school to like you........ Now the variables.....add in these and its gives you more choices.......or them more choices / reasons to like you... Tall, lefty, control. off-speed, grades, etc......you get the idea......the list of variables goes on and on........
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
From what I have seen there is a minimum of 75, and this was for a VERY low totem pole D3. So as far as a deal breaker, yes, no matter the control the kid has to be throwing at least 75 to pitch in college in my opinion.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Work on developing velocity. Never stop trying to improve. But unless you’re throwing at a jaw dropping velocity learn how to pitch. Work on command. Work on the mental side of pitching. If you work to optimize these aspects of pitching you will find your place in the game. Theres a lot involved with whether someone becomes a major conference D1 pitcher versus D3. But the most important thing is elevate yourself to be the best you can be. Ultimately you want to have a positive college...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
On the NCAA site, there are 299 D1 baseball teams listed. Using an average of 15 pitchers per team, that is 4,485 guys pitching at the D1 level in any one season. Just looking at the class of 2017, 292 RHP's threw 90 plus and 270 LHP's threw 85 plus(from PG site). If you expand the parameters on the PG site to 2017 RHP's throwing 88 plus and LHP's throwing 84 plus, the list expands to 621 and 440. I don't know how many of those players signed professionally but I'm guessing that number is...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
He said college. Not D1. How many college programs are there in the US? Don't forget JUCO and NAIA....there is a huge wide door for many pitchers.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
The only point I would add is that the top programs get the Lions share of top pitching, the top 75 may get 50% or more of the total. So that still leaves 125 D1s looking for arms.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Disclaimer - Not real good in math... So a quick search of The Google says there are around 1,140 four year colleges/universities (D1-D3 and NAIA) of all levels playing baseball. Using 15 pitchers as a average ballpark, that means there are 17,100 pitchers needed at 4 year schools at any given time. That is alot of arms! Then you add another 500 or so junior colleges and that is another 7.5K or so for a very rough estimate of 24.5K +- arms needed in collegiate baseball... When you look at it...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Ha Ha good catch. You made my argument sound even better LOL thx
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Just clarifying, are you saying there was a kid pitching for WVU who threw in the 70s?
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
If there are approximately 300 right hand pitchers in the PG database that have been 90 or better, I'm guessing there is another 50 or more that aren't in the database. That is in any given class there could be as many as 350 or more RHPs at 90 or better. If you were to subtract the draft and considered Freshman, sophomores, juniors and seniors colleges account for 4 years, 4 recruiting classes. that does not account for red shirt years. Then there is another 50 or more LHPs throwing 90 or...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Keep in mind that a pitcher who throws 90, even once, has that follow him around for life. Even more so, a pitcher who throws 90 for a period of time, say a fall PG season. What I am seeing at the senior HS level is pitchers whose Velo has dropped off. Saw one LHP ( lower D1) who has a nasty curve and hit 85-86 consistently last fall is now low 80's and getting hit. Another RHP who hit 88 ( lower D1) as a 16 yo is now low 80's at 18 yo. Another who threw low 90's, sat high 80's(P5) is now...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
30 mph That's the approximate minimum velo required for the ball to travel 60'-6" at a 45 degree launch angle. Anything less and the ball cannot possibly cross the plate. (Please excuse the pathetic engineering humor. )
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
We saw a few 75-77's at a lower level academic D3 in the MW, but for a RH pitcher, I would say there are few who peak at 79 or lower who ever get the chance to pitch in college baseball from what we saw. Even at the Academic tryouts for the AZ Senior Classic, if a kid was not at least 85 in the morning tryouts, he was not invited to the Academic game. Of course for lefties, there is more of opportunity for "crafty lefties" but there does not seem to be any equivalent for RHPs unless they are...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
This subject has been hammered countless times here... some of the data from PG and others are great. But agree with Pia Ump for short, quick answer... "80's" gets you somewhere when it's the kind that you know it when you see it. There are always stories about guys in 70's and they are true. But here is a twist on those guys that doesn't often get discussed. I think that most of those guys were not recruited as P's. They did something else as a position player and due to a variety of...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Just looked in on a Northwestern v Notre Dame game. Two guys came in from the bullpen for NWU. One's fastball sat 77-79(high of 80), and another 79-81(high 83). Their breaking pitches looked OK, but they couldn't throw consistent strikes with them. I bet somewhere there is a record of them throwing 87 mph.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Son is a pitcher, let's just say we have been very encouraged watching SEC baseball on Saturday on ESPN. Been seeing a lot of figures that look like snowmen in the little velocity box on TV. I hate seeing those pesky critters on my golf scorecard, but for a HS junior who has been told his whole life that you need to be 90+ to play D1its a nice surprise for my kid.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
@Nonamedad Is right on point. All you hear is 90 90 90, but the games say 87 87 87. Now can those guys hit it once off a turf mound indoors? Probably, but they aren't all throwing that in game.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Velo numbers are huge at the recruiting level but don't mean a whole lot in a NCAA D1 game . HC's throw guys that get outs . Period. It doesn't matter if it's crossing the plate at 83 mph . But HS parents of low velo pitchers be forewarned , That doesn't mean that they recruit guys that ' get outs' at the HS level. 85 on the left side / 88 on the right are the magic numbers for Mid-Upper Division 1 baseball.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
HS underdog team making deep run in state playoffs recently vs a nationally ranked team. Underdog team, starting RHP at 5-8, 140, and sitting 73-75 was untouched through 3.1 innings. With score tied at 0-0 after 3 1/3, and a runner on 2nd due to Error, coaches assumed game would be decided by 1 or 2 runs, so they bring in their Big Gun who sits 88-90, tops at 92, to shut it down. Got shelled. Balls flying all over the field. Place went from cow pasture to construction site in an instant.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Within 5 years I predict that spin rate will have a much bigger influence on who gets recruited where, but for now 80's is not likely enough to get you recruited to an SEC school to pitch. Maybe 88/89. Maybe...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
There's a kid that was a Jr RHP on my son's team last season. He pitched a total of 1 inning the entire season. Didn't get on the mound at all this season. He couldn't hit 80 if he was throwing downhill off the Empire State Building. He's "signed" with a D3 to play next year. Of course: It's an out of state academic D3. They have 60 guys on the "roster" He's paying about $65,000 a year to go there. But hey, A guy throwing in the 70's can pitch in college.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Over the years I've seen plenty of pitchers throwing in the mid-70's in D3. They might have hit 80 something once or twice throwing in a Showcase. But in games they are cruising in the 70's. They aren't pitching, generally, for a powerhouse D3 that regularly attends the NCAA Regionals, but in lower level D3's? Yes. The key, as with anything in life really, is getting opportunities and then taking advantage of those opportunities when you get them. A recruit throwing in the 70's is going to...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
I'm seeing a lot of shifting in the college game now. I feel that locating your pitches is the most important thing to work on for young pitcher. Is it really impressive to watch a kid throw 93+ only look a the box score and see 45+ pitches after first 2 innings.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
My sons D3 played a very competitive schedule, they were ranked in the top 20 SOS according to the whatever criteria the NCAA uses. I am sure it is a pretty comprehensive comparison of the higher D3 level. I think 14 of our 40 games season were vs teams playing in the Regional somewhere. We see mostly low 80's, some higher, occasionally lower usually lefty junk ballers, a very few in the high 80's.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
The thing is, there are more & more high school kids every year who can do both (throw 93 and locate). I'm a huge fan of Greg Maddux. The pitchers who can really move the ball are fun to watch. The thing is, the lower velocity pitcher has way less margin for error. If he gets in a game where his secondary pitches aren't working, and his fastball ain't moving, he is gonna get flat out hammered. While it is true that great hitters can sit on any velocity and crush it, the higher velocity...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
I invite you to watch this Saturday on ESPN college baseball (it's exclusively SEC where I am) to check velocity numbers. 90+ is the exception not the rule and that's mostly closers. Many times a velocity won't be shown, my conspiracy mind tells me it's because the number is too low. You may need 88-90 to get recruited, but anyone with eyes and a TV can see you don't need those numbers to pitch in the SEC, which is hardly mid level D1. Watch the CWS, ESPN now shows many regional games, you...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
I agree with you and I watch a lot of college baseball, specifically the SEC. As an Arkansas fan, our Friday night guy is 92-95, Saturday is a LHP that is mostly 88-90, and Sunday is a guy that has had arm issues who will be anywhere from 89-96. The closer is 94-96 and the top two relievers are 88-89 and 90-95. The only teams with arms like that as far as I know are Florida and Oregon State which are basically the top 3 teams in the country. Most teams have a dude on Friday night and a few...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Went to the Big 12 tournament a few years back, WVA vs Baylor, WVA lefty never hit 80 and the Baylor righty never hit 88. Stadium gun in OKC bricktown.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
I agree that high velo is helpful, and I agree that college coaches feel confident . . . but if you look at the percentage of recruits who wash out, don't see the field, transfer, etc., I'd argue that that confidence is misplaced (I know you said "great college coaches" but I suspect that the not-so-great coaches have the same confidence). Very often a college coach will have seen a recruit play just a few times, perhaps a half-dozen. Their ability to assess and project is not nearly as good...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
For every 90's velocity kid who ends up being a bust, there's 3 more waiting in line to take his spot (or so it seems at least!)
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Right on cue, Baseball America article today on this topic: www.baseballamerica.com/storie...ort-of-expectations/ "I think for a long time, in general, we as an industry have been very bad at how we evaluate high school pitching,” an American League crosschecker said. "We keep doing the same thing over and over again. These flamethrower guys get pushed up toward the top. If the guy is not throwing 100 (mph) he’s not as high on lists. But look at the guys who keep actually showing up in the...
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
So if there are scouts in the stands and you are throwing hard but just missing, do you let up on speed a little bit to get more accuracy, or keep throwing hard? This has been a discussion in our house about the summer.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
Is the scout referring to Aaron Sanchez who goes 93-95 with his two seamer , and Taijuan Walker who averages 94 on his fastball and a 89-90 splitter? (Not to mention Walker's arm blowing up recently) Those guys were both first round draft picks out of high school who were 93+ in their senior years. It's not like they were mid 80's guys who grew into 90's guys.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
For the guys who are successful, the two are not mutually exclusive.
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Re: Minimum Velocity to pitch in college
There are so many variables. Is the stadium gun accurate? Do these guns need periodic calibration to make sure they are accurate? As someone mentioned earlier, most guys throw mid to high 80's. Son's team has a Friday guy that was hitting 95-96 in the 7th inning, but they have an All American Closer who lives 80-82. When the closer is on, he is virtually unhittable. When his control is off, he gets hammered. From what I've seen, the 95-96 guy on son's team can use his velo to get an...