Doc,
As someone who sometimes finds himself the only one arguing one side of an issue, I naturally respect people who don't back down just because no one agrees with them.
So I still want to understand your point of view.
Are there any of those ten things you think do not apply to your circumstances? If so, which ones? I see you're still on line and haven't left to drag that field yet. Can you explain?
Best wishes,
S
1. Let them make their own choices both good and bad: I strongly disagree with this approach in parenting all together. I won't stand by and let a inexperienced lad make poor choices that could be detrimental to his future. This is a style of liberal parenting that don't work for me. I just care too much! Don't eat Oreo's for dinner, you need to clean up the garage, I don't want you hanging with that crowd, and your not gonna play baseball on Billy's team just because his Dad let's you ride the mini bike. I know that sound's unreasonable too some but I have my reasons for being their parent and not their full time buddy.
6. Kid's should play the sport that is in season: I have mentioned earlier that this is not what is best for everyone, I'm not gonna drag my kid across town to play basketball, or wrestling practice, just because it's cold outside and some long distance Mom wanting to give their advice said this is what's best.
9. Not working out and not practicing: Really? are you serious? how many college Coaches do you know that are standing around saying: man I would really like to recruit a kid that won't work out on his own. I know high school Coaches that expect kid's to be better next year when they come to camp or they will be in the dog house. How do you get better?...........practice and working out.
You can disagree with my point of view all you want but on this one please don't teach them it's OK to fail because you didn't workout.
I have fell in love with some average players over the years because of their work ethic, and a lot of time's they turned in to good ballplayers. I'm not sure what people are picturing when I say working hard, but when our boy's were little bitty guy's we kept everyone busy, we ran several competitions and we always finished on a good note. They had so much fun they didn't even realize how hard they were working. In the fall they would try to skip football practice because they were afraid they would miss something. We had such a learning environment it was unbelievable, but still this was not for everyone and I understand that....but it's the path we choose.
URL to story again:
http://www.ooph.com/ooph-lists...hletes-need-to-know/
Man, you've taken some of these statements totally out of context:
1. It’s not about you, its about them. Do not live your own sports dreams through your kids. It’s their turn now. Let them make their own choices, both good and bad.
This means that you don't force your child to play any particular sport because you want them to play it. It is not your life. What the author is saying that there are parents out there that can't accept their inability to be some star in a sport and so, now demand more of their child to boost the parent's ego. The author is also saying that your child might make the wrong decisions once in a while. The author didn't say stop being a parent or trying to give direction. For my team, one of the points I made to all parents is that if you're a helicopter parent, your insecurity screams volumes about what you think about your child.
6. Kids should play the sport that is in season until they are in middle school. Then they can decide which one or two sports they want to play and become more focused. Cross training prevents injuries and burnout.
Did you miss the part about middle school age? There are many benefits from the cross training that comes with playing different sports as well as the lowering of injuries to specialization and over use.
9. Let them fail. Forgotten equipment, not working out, not practicing at home? Let them suffer the consequences of that. It will make them better.
Where did the author say it is alright to fail? The author said that there are consequences to everything including these listed things and so, your child needs to learn that. You speak about college coaches. Ok, so go pick up your child's bat bag when they forget it. Go carry it. See college coaches look for someone else. What do you think will happen the day you are not there forcing them to do all of this stuff. The Wife and I once had this conversation about this dad that monitored everything his child ate. She had to fill out a form he gave her for each day. We both agreed that when she went off to college, she was going to go hog wild with her new freedom. Were we ever right! This issue could be construed as allowing them to fail minimally so that they don't do it severely when you aren't around.
There is a point where a person is so driven for what they perceive as what is best for their child actually destroys their child's fun in the sport. There is a point where the child will be old enough to make their own decisions regardless of how driven the parents are. I've coached for a few decades and have seen it. The last person to know that the point of no return has been crossed is the parent. JMHO!
Edited to add:
We have all made mistakes as parents. I've made them as a parent and as a coach since I coached my own child most of her life and in HS. So, I wanted to make the point that I am just giving my opinion. My opinion and roughly $7 will get you an extra value meal at McDonald's.
Something that you are scared to admit is that this is not a one size fit's all, Do you think your a drill instructor or a dictator and it has to be your way or it's wrong? your talking about kid's that want to take some pitching lessons and sit in the tree with a bow all winter instead of baseball I'm not mad at them for doing it.
And if your letting Mom's and Dad's carry bags at any age, you would of never been on our Team. If you nudge them in the right direction when they are young, maybe they will see a pattern and make similar choices later. You might need to read all reply's to understand how we got to this point. And you can disagree with that too I have more ink....
I didn't push my kids. This doesn't mean I didn't, encourage, support, advise and train them. I coached my daughter through 18u. I coached my son through 16u. I also coached them in basketball through 14u. But I never told them they had to do something. If they wanted to practice with my help they had to ask. We didn't do post game analysis in the car unless they asked.
What my kids did see growing up were two intensely competitive parents. They saw their mother playing softball and me playing basketball in adult leagues. They saw us glaze over at each other playing Scrabble. They saw two people who put a lot of effort into everything they did. It rubbed off on them.
I had two very different kids. I had to engage them differently from an athhletic standpoint. Until high school I never would have thought my daughter would be a college athlete. I was hearing at age seven I wouldn't have to pay for my son's college after every sport he played. But I knew I hated my father constantly telling me I wasn't good enough as motivation even when I was playing college ball. I wasn't going to be an over the top dad.
Doc, are you trying to separate your kids' work ethic from some of the vet posters here? Do you really know what level of baseball our kids are playing and the tremendous amount of hard work they have put in to be where they are? This came from self-motivation. I'd bet my house no one has worked harder than our sons.
Doc, I know I must be the world's worst communicator since I don't seem to be making my point. I'll let it go and wish you and your son the best of luck. I'm nearing the end of my journey with my daughter and so, will continue to sit back and enjoy the moment. There have been many enjoyable moments and all on her terms. I could cite her resume to demonstrate her success. Instead, I'll enjoy her smile and know that in two years when her playing days are over, she will take over a TB Program in softball and I'll get to continue living the dream as I go watch her coach the sport she loves. Again, wishing you and yours the best of luck.
There are just some things folks cannot see (me included sometimes) until they're in the rearview mirror.
Doc, I know I must be the world's worst communicator since I don't seem to be making my point. I'll let it go and wish you and your son the best of luck. I'm nearing the end of my journey with my daughter and so, will continue to sit back and enjoy the moment. There have been many enjoyable moments and all on her terms. I could cite her resume to demonstrate her success. Instead, I'll enjoy her smile and know that in two years when her playing days are over, she will take over a TB Program in softball and I'll get to continue living the dream as I go watch her coach the sport she loves. Again, wishing you and yours the best of luck.
CoachB,
You did a really good job of interpreting what was meant.
I don't think its you.
Doc,
Where does it or did anyone say anything about kids not working out and practicing, can you point that out to me? What was said was that let them learn the consequences if they do not take responsibility. Ex: you don't go do extra work in the cage, your hitting might suffer.
Where does it say or anyone said let your kids run wild and let them do whatever they wish? I think common sense is there should be guidelines as to what is acceptable and what is not, and you need to guide them to make the right choices not make them FOR them.
As far as letting your kids work out as much as they want, what exactly does that mean?
We are from florida, so we didn't let our son play year round until HS. Before that he would pick up basketball, golf, bowling. It certainly didn't hurt his development.
The advice given by the mom is excellent and comes from Dr. Andrews and associates.
The Doctor - I'm going to approach this from a different perspective and hope we can get a better understanding of what you're saying. How would you respond to your kid (I still don't know how old he is so I'm going to try and keep it pretty general) came up to you with these.
1. Your son becomes friend with a good kid - great parents, great grades, etc....- but he's a wrestler. So through the friendship with this new kid your son becomes interested in wrestling. He says he wants to go out for the wrestling team at school.
A) is this his decision or does he have to have your permission to tryout for wrestling?
B) he does try out for wrestling and make the team but the time for wrestling takes up time to where baseball workouts are now limited (still happen but not as long or much)?
2. Your son wants a car
A) does he have to get a job to save the money to buy one his own or do you provide him one?
B) if he gets a job and the time for it is very demanding is he allowed to make the choice to keep the job or give it up to continue baseball workouts?
C) how much freedom does your son have in picking out what he buys? For example there is a truck he really likes but it has a history of having mechanical problems versus a vehicle he hates which is probably going not break down as much.
3. Your son comes up to you and says he doesn't want to play baseball anymore. What do you tell him?
Edited to add - if anyone else can come up with some other scenarios (for anybody on this thread) to help understand point of view please post them.
Doc,
Its not us who doesn't get it.......
No one has the right to tell anyone how to raise their kids, I agree. This woman offered suggestions.
You knew darn well that your post would create this discussion.
That's called trolling..............
And you never answered my questions..soooooo...therefore, next time you make a post asking for info or feedback, count me out.
This has been the problem, I think, others are having with your responses throughout this thread. No one…no one…said anything like this (make your kid play a sport):
...I'm not gonna make my kids play a sport just because someone I don't know tells me that I should.
Not the author of the article, not anyone here. The message is that you allow (or encourage) your kid to play another sport especially through Jr. HS. Even if you're convinced your son's future is in baseball, I have seen incredible benefits from cross training over the hundreds…yep, hundreds…of kids I have coached in baseball. (Cross training was another small point in the article). Many, many parents who have visited this site and many others that we've all encountered in the baseball world "make their kid play baseball year-around."
Are you one of them?
I ask because many I have known many who say things similar to, "my son wants to hit curve balls at 10:30 at night." Sorry - but thats truth. Your pattern on this thread is similar to other parents who are in it for themselves. Are you? - only your son can answer that truthfully I think.
Your pattern is you keep either misinterpreting what others write or you're trying to stir the pot. Either way, its getting kind of silly.
Pretty good list, but not complete, I think.
I would add:
11: Give the kid some quiet time after a loss or poor performance. Don't talk about the game in the car on the way home. (this one is especially hard if you're a coach)
12: Don't make excuses for your player. If he got shelled or went oh-for, don't blame it on the ump or his catcher or his coach or whoever. Let him own it.
13: Don't tear down you kid's coaches or teammates. (This one is tough. I broke it today after the center on my kid's HS varsity basketball team acted like a spoiled 250lb, 6' 7" toddler during a loss last night)
RE "Doc". Did everybody see "Trophy Kids" on HBO? Reminds me of the scene in the car between the football dad and his highly pressured son. Dad sure let his son know who was making the decisions in the family.
14. Don't coach your son past a certain age.
14. Don't coach your son past a certain age.
Ah, yes, the Marinovich rule!
Where did I state I didn't let my kids work out as much as they wanted no matter what time of year it was (providing responsibilities like homework and chores were done)? My kids played a different sport each season through freshman year of high school. They were always busy practicing some sport. My son played school football, travel soccer, school basketball, rec basketball, travel basketball, school baseball and travel baseball in middle school. My daughter played school volleyball, rec soccer, rec basketball, school softball, travel softball, school chorus and school symphony in middle school.
Neither one touched a baseball or softball from part way into August until late February until high school. In high school they still played other school sports. But they recognized baseball/softball was going to require a year round effort from that point forward. I would argue practicing in the off season is unnecessary before high school.
The parents of an ex-travel teammate, also a 2017, of my son's have violated #5.
I was talking to the dad the other day. He told me that he was discussing, with his wife, how much of a signing bonus they would let their son accept when he gets drafted. I replied, maybe you should make sure that he makes the freshman team before you worry about that.
The player was cut from the travel team for a variety of reasons, which would necessitate its own topic to explain. Fact is, unfortunately, the kid may not have the ability to play HS ball.
My last post on this, sorry you couldn't get me to give in or at least act like it to keep harmony but I'm just not wired that way. But I wonder if anyone noticed during this thread how many times I supported you and your choice on how you want to do things. I believe there is no one way of doing things. I have a daughter that was the slowest and worst athlete on the team for years. But we worked hard and one day she got it and she couldn't get enough. She landed a nice deal at a 4 year school starting next year. She is my amazing prize.I have another daughter that is quite the tender heart. Nothing but praise and encouragement for this kid or she will shut down. I have a son that has played for nice ex mlb players that knew nothing about teaching baseball but they were nice guys. and he has been part of a vigorous system that was demanding and tuff. And in this environment he has steadily thrived. (Thus there is more than one way to skin a cat) wich leaves me to believe that there are different make ups for different families. By now you know what type I prefer, but I hope that when you disagree with the majority or who has posted the longest that it don't always turn into a all out blitz. But then again I think I will be OK. Trolling? ..I never heard that before but I think you might be off a little. I wasn't hiding in the bushes I told it like I see it. But in closing I will say if I raise good kids that turn in to good adults someday than I hit a home run!
Good day!
And while I'm at it, for all of the HS and pre-HS parents who think that their kid is the best player in the world...
About 20 years ago I was a pretty good hockey player. I was in my late 20's at the time. As I live in the metro NYC area, and it was summer, I was able to skate with a few pro hockey players. One of them was Alexei Kovalev, who played for the NY Rangers at that time.
As good as I "thought" that I was, these pros made me look like a pylon on the ice (especially Kovalev - man he could skate). I've never forgotten that experience and it made me realize that professional sports is an entirely different level that fans, and especially parents of players, should learn to respect.
This is an example of the difference between a pro and a wannabe. The worst pro player can beat 99.9% of the best wannabe.
BRIAN SCALABRINE CHALLENGED THE BEST LOCAL BASKETBALL PLAYERS IN BOSTON TO PLAY HIM 1 ON 1 BECAUSE HE WAS TIRED OF PEOPLE THINKING HE SUCKS. LITTLE DID THEY KNOW, THEY WOULD GET DESTROYED IN A SCALLANGE BY THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME
There are just some things folks cannot see (me included sometimes) until they're in the rearview mirror.
I'm new to the forum, mostly a reader. Justbaseball, I think you just captured why I follow the threads. Thanks in advance to the longtime posters who have been there, done that. Off to take my 2020 to tryouts for a local org....hope I remember the posted rules that started this thread!
There are just some things folks cannot see (me included sometimes) until they're in the rearview mirror.
So true.
Thank you JB for the article.
It's pretty simple and basic.
Still trying to figure out what makes the suggestions different if your son plays rec ball or participates in the Super NIT's.
Or for any sport for that matter.
When my son was 10 we joined a group of families from rec ball and formed a travel team. Local, within a certain distance, same league but each had a travel team associated with it.
Anyway, before each game (weekends due to school) son would always ask what wing place were we going to (with the team) after the game. He never mentioned whether IF they won or lost just where were they going. Not that it was important (we did win most games) but being a part of the team was such an important aspect of the game, which it should be at that age.
Of course this ritual never changed, even through college. So not really understanding the comment either about having ice cream after a game, does that mean that eating ice cream after the game makes you any less of a ball player than if you had wings?
Well you get the idea.
