Skip to main content

22 replies

11 year old with Pitching Soreness - Feedback Please

M Marklaker1,000+ posts
My 11 year old son is experiencing significant soreness this morning after pitching in a game last night. I'm concerned because naturally any time he has discomfort I want to be attentive given the delicacy of a growing young body, but even more so today because he generally experiences only "stiffness" or "light soreness" (his terms) after a turn on the mound and today he's quite clear that the soreness is much more pronounced.

As a disclaimer, let me identify that he threw 81 pitches last night (Saturday) and 78 pitches the previous Tuesday. I expect to take some heat from those who may feel I'm pushing his limits and not adequately protecting his body, and that's ok because I'm doing some soul searching myself this morning and will re-evaluate how we proceed in the future.

Now let me explain where the soreness is occuring. Employing the imperfect but useful 1-10 scale of soreness (i.e., 10 greatest, 1 least), he lists elbow as 0, the forearm as a 1, the biceps as a 2, the triceps as a 4, the deltoid as a 5, and the area along and underneath the scapula as a 7. It's the last two areas that create the most concern because of both the severity and absence of significant soreness in previous efforts.

The soreness in his back has me wondering if he was trying to reach back for a little extra (we were playing for first place last night) and in doing so employed improper mechanics, such as they are. I didn't detect any difference nor did I see a variation in velocity from previous outings but I'm far from expert and may have been distracted by the success he was having (i.e., focusing on the outcome rather than procedure).

I'm not sure whether this is a significant factor or not, but he appears to be in the midst of a growth spurt, having grown an inch in the past three weeks. Could this possibly have an impact?

Second disclaimer: he plays on both travel and rec teams and pitches for each. I've kept both coaches apprised of his efforts for the other team and delicately negotiated his workload to try and avoid overuse. He felt fine entering last night's game and has never complained of a sore or fatigued arm prior to an outing.

Third disclaimer: I was disappointed to learn that he began experiencing some discomfort while facing the last three hitters of the evening but neglected to tell anyone because he wanted to finish the inning. I've told him time and again to let the coach know immediately when he feels pain or fatigue in his arm.

I plan to keep him from throwing today and tomorrow and administer periodic ice treatments. He has a game Tuesday but isn't scheduled to pitch.

Sorry for the long-winded preamble, but I wanted to set the stage before requesting feedback from either those of you who've travelled this road, or those of you with experience in the medical field who can provide their perspective.

Thanks!
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Are you saying he pitched last night but 12 days prior?

What did he do in between that time?
Sounds like he just overdid it after a long layoff, and ice only really helps the first 24 hours. You might want to try some heat after that period. Not sure if that will do much but it's worth a shot. Tylenol, motrim or aleve (child's dose) for discomfort.

You'll have to give it a few days. We are not here to give medical advice, but if it was my player, not sure if I would have him play, but needs to begin a recovery program (stretching, some cardio, light throwing, etc) unless he is in pain. Doing nothing can be worse.

11 year olds, in my opinion cannot maintain perfect mechanics for long periods of time, the damage occurs when they begin to fatigue and you can't always tell from mechanic breakdown.

You need to talk to him about the warning signs, but don't rely on 11 year olds to understand.
Some may state this is normal, but not sure what normal is for 11 year olds these days.

When mine was 11 he pitched twice a week some weeks in one league only, probably no more than 25-30 per game at first and a very light BP in between and plenty of other throwing activities to build up arm strength. If he couldn't get it done in that time he was out and onto the next pitcher. He also played other positions when not pitching, at 11 it really doesn't matter where one plays, it's about learning the game, not about anything else, IMO. Practice is more important at 11 than games, but that is my philosophy.

I am just not sure what parents are trying to achieve with allowing this with their young children with growing bodies. Becoming a good pitcher takes years. Some people won't even let their players begin pitching in real games until they reach 13-15.

I am not going to get into how I feel about 81 pitches (plus bull pen and warm up) for an 11 year old every 8-10 days, you might want to do some research on recommendations for pitching management for his age from the NPA and ASMI.
Last edited by TPM
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
78 pitches on tuesday and 81 last night?

This is what mine did in 6 days. He threw his first game with about 45-50 pitches last saturday night, rest, light BP, rest, 25 pitches in a game thursday.
He's 23.
If your player is hurting and you pushed it, then perhaps you will realize you pushed it.

I see you are from FL, when did the season begin, february?
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
Marklaker - It just sounds like too many pitches for a young arm. I appreciate your openness in discussing the issue. No "heat" intended towards you from me.

A minor league pitcher would not be asked to do what your 11-year old son did and there's a good reason for it too. Its just too much.

Just give him some rest...at least 5 days with some light throwing only if the pain subsides and he feels up to it. If its no better 2 weeks from now, I'd go see someone who is well versed in arm issues.

Good luck!
Last edited by justbaseball
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
We have all been there and done that, and it's good to have the wake up calls early.

Lots of really good baseball to be played here in
Florida. As your son gets older, that's when it counts, so as a parent raising a ball player in FL, it's good to watch over them carefully when they are young. He also did not play year round bb, he took long summers off.

At 11, son was a ball player, pitching was just a small part of the game at that part. I asked my husband and he thinks that he didn't even pitch as much as I stated at 11. Most everyone back then was used in some capacity as a pitcher, it was all for fun. It was in junior high that his real pitching ability came out, but he still continued to play and hit and play other positions until his sophmore year in HS.
Last edited by TPM
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
he threw 81 pitches last night (Saturday) and 78 pitches the previous Tuesday.
Fully physically developed MLB pitchers pitch on more rest than you provided your son.

From asmi.org ...

Recommended limits for 11-12 year old pitchers:

75 pitches per game
100 pitches per week
1000 pitches per season
3000 pitches per year

ASMI was founded by Dr Andrews, the leading sports orthopedic specialist in the world.
Last edited by RJM
Tx-HuskerTx-Husker1,000+ posts
Marklaker...don't be hard on yourself. You are catching this early and doing something about it. It doesn't sound likely he hurt himself beyond what some rest will take care of. It's hard for little kids like that to know the difference between being a tough team player and doing themself harm. That's where what you are doing now comes in.
M Marklaker1,000+ posts
I appreciate everyone's responses, in whatever form. I've done some research online since my first post and have a clear picture of how foolish I was and how we need to proceed in the future to keep him healthy.

I'd like to say it was just plain ignorance, but the truth is I should've known better, got caught up in the moment, and shirked my repsonsibility. I've felt like a heel pretty much all day. It was only when I tucked him in for the night and he told me that the soreness had begun to recede that I heaved a sigh of relief.

As I said, it was a wake-up call.

Take care.
bballmanbballman10,000+ posts
Sounds like he is just sore. Any time you push your limits you are going to get sore. There is a big difference in being sore from an outing and being hurt. All the symptoms you mentioned point to being sore, not hurt.

I agree with MTS, that the back muscles are from deceleration. Could be from finishing across the chest. However, if your son has a lower arm slot, he will not finish as low as someone with a higher arm slot. My son has some outings where he gets sore the next day. His HS coach usually has him take the next day off with no throwing and the second day he does long toss. 99% of the time, the soreness is gone after the long toss.

I am a believer that you should push your limits a little when on the mound. If you stick to low pitch counts, you will never be able to get beyond that. Like TRHit says, "Kids today do not throw enough". The big thing is to make sure he gets plenty of rest between those times you push the limits. In this case, your son should get a full 4 days rest before he hits the mound again. So, if he pitched on Saturday, he should not pitch in a game again until Thursday at the earliest.

Keep an eye on your son. If he looks like he is getting tired and is becoming less effective, it's time to come out. And really make sure he gets his rest between starts. Good luck.
M Marklaker1,000+ posts
My son throws with a 3/4+ arm slot. For what it's worth the soreness has all but gone from his arm and deltoid this afternoon. It appears what soreness remains is in the lat muscle just below the armpit.

Interestingly enough, I found this passage from an old MLB.com article on Dodger pitcher Randy Wolf:

"I've learned with what's sore and where I'm missing with my pitches," he said. "If my back is sore, I'm fighting against myself. If I'm efficient, my body feels fine. If my scapula and lats are sore, that's good. It means I'm extending."

My son did nothing yesterday but poison his mind and body with video games. Today we'll play some catch and see where he's at. He's not scheduled to pitch until Saturday, but only if he's absent all soreness and arm fatigue. Even so, I'll be on the other side of the fence with my trusty pitch counter.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
age 11 = Little League

Have they changed the rules ? When I was involved they were permitted just 6 innings from Sunday thru the next Saturday. If you threw one pitch more than 3 innings you needed to sit three full days before pitching again
A lot of kids, or should I say parents are opting out of LL, Ripken, etc. for travel. Some travel tournaments have pitching limits. Some do not. When my son was nine and ten we had a travel teams that started when the rec season ended. There were pitching limits. Ten innings a weekend for nines and tens. Ridiculous!

From having been involved in travel from 9U to 16U, I can say I've seen plenty of coaches who either have no clue on arm abuse or don't care in the name of winning.
M Marklaker1,000+ posts
FWIW, I thought I'd bring some closure to the initial post that originated this thread. Played catch with my son last night and he confirmed there was no longer any soreness, just a very slight stiffness in the lat muscle below the armpit of his throwing arm.

Pitch count issue aside, I may have overeacted a bit regarding the soreness. If so, it was because he'd never previosuly identified any soreness in his scap or lat areas and it gave me pause. I'll continue to closely monitor him, but it appears he's fine.

If anything, this episode has made me focus on the issue of overuse and helped me acquire a greater understanding of what I need to do for his health and safety.

Still learning in my advanced age....
T TDad10+ posts
That's great news! We have all been to the edge of the cliff a few times. I would seriously consider adding the " Thrower's Ten " or any reputable rotator cuff program appropriate for his age and size to your player's workout. Lack of pain is a good sign but my guess is there is still going to be scapular weakness unless dealt with. Long-term ( like brushing your teeth ) it really pays off.

Add Reply

Post
High Level Throwing

Driveline Baseball

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×