11.7 Scholarships

quote:

I have never understood why it COST more to educate an out-of-state student than an in-state student. I do understand the institutions CHARGES more, but it seems to me the cost would be the same.

Fungo, great point.

I'll attempt a guess and hope somebody corrects me. Is it possible that state schools are subsidized from the taxpayers of the given state? If so, from the college's point of view it would cost more to educate the out of state student because there would be no offset from respective state subsidies. I have no idea if what I just said makes any sense or not

How many scholarships for JUCO's?

CD,
OH state U's do get some state $$, but are not controlled by the state, and are run as "for profit corporations". their books are closed & revenues are not disclosed - I assume others operate this way also, but are reluctant to admit it

it doesn't cost more to educate O.S.ers, they charge them more "beacuse they can"
aka "charge it and they will come" - -


ie, in 2003, Miami (ohio) raised their tuition from $9,000 to $20,000 for out of state
(out of state applications proceeded to go UP!)

Its all about State subsidies... The state will come in and subsidize a part of the cost for its citizens but will not for non-citizens.

I've heard other states handle it differently. Some provide scholarships based on HS GPA.

Now my question is.... How much does it really cost the university/college to add one student to a student population of 20,000 or more. I mean I would estimate most schools have 250-350 or so athletes (perhaps I should say equivalent scholarships) that are typically in the athletic department. Obviously there are athletic costs but for the other classes??

Hundereds if not thousands of classes are offered. There is a point where it really doesn't cost more to add one or two persons to each class, nor degrade the quality of education. Especially the ones in the large lecture halls... Does it matter if there is 202 students instead of 200??? or 302 instead of 300????

by sdbb:

quote:

How much does it really cost the university/college to add one student to a student population of 20,000 or more.

if the classroom(s) is completely full, they must add one more chair in the back row, then print out one more schedule


if they were merely covering costs, where did the $850 million come from for the new student center, polymer complex, law library, athletic complex, new dorms & rec center? (Akron sports are lucky to break even)

quote:

Originally posted by SDBB:
How much does it really cost the university/college to add one student to a student population of 20,000 or more.

I'm with you there but think the theory is that if you add 1 you'll add more....and eventually even more, necessitating the need for expansion (more dorms, classrooms, facilities....) down the road.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
ie, in 2003, Miami (ohio) raised their tuition from $9,000 to $20,000 for out of state
(out of state applications proceeded to go UP!)

And in 2007, lower income students will go free. When will middle income families get a break?

Beeze, that's commendable -
the rest of the story is

part uno - Miami's tough admission requirements MUST still be met -

part deux - -0- tuition, but housing, meals, books & all other fees apply

still tho, a great deal for low income (Ohio) smart kids with "some" resources

I believe the out-of-state higher costs are partially because of state tax/lottery subsidies that support the offspring of the taxpayers, partially to discourage neighboring states from dumping their students (hey, why allocate tax money for a new uni when the little darlings can just go to One State Over U?), and partially to discourage warm-weather and party colleges (which are often one and the same ) from being deluged with applicants to the point where the local kids can't get in.

Without the $ differences, artificial though they might be, we'd have national rather than state colleges, in effect.

SDBB, who gets to be the Bonus Student (the 201st student in the class covered by the tuition of the first 200?) Ooooo --- more state lotto opportunities!

In response to

Part uno - Obviously. Otherwise it would be OU (sorry MH)

Part Deux - I left that out but true. However, given their ability to get aid, I'd think it would be easy to cover most if not all.

good points orlando, dumping, etc, however - - -

for purposes of this discussion we are talking about an out of state student (athlete) who is being recruited (invited, nagged and begged) to attend a university out of his home state because they NEED & WANT him


.

My son could have stayed in state and received full tuition from the state that he earned by his GPA and SAT scores. He also would have received his books and one semester of meals for free, paid by the athletic department not counted in the scholarhip of 11.7. I think we figured out his actual percentage was really not that much, but looked good on paper. We could have actually told people his scholarship was FULL.
So I agree in state players that get state money are less expensive on the budget and they count little against the 11.7. Here in FL the money comes from the state lottery. Years ago, many FLorida students went out of state, but a part of the reason the lottery was designed was to keep FL students here in FL. Our current govenor wants to end this program. In other words, they wanted their in state students to remain in state, period. Here in FL, it works for baseball and football, due to talent.

I think that each school has their own way of creative funding for all players, in state, out of state, to get 35-39 on a yearly roster and know how to work the percentages.

I heard Jim Morris on the radio last year explaining that they fund many scholarships through private donations. Miami was hit with a sanction and lost 2 baseball scholarships for two years, so we all know it is possible to get 35 players to come play on their team, even on two less scholarships. It is a private institution, but a player earning money from the state is allowed to use that toward part of his tuition (a formula based on the average state tuition cost in FL).

BTW, most of Miami's roster is in state players.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Coach Merc,
I have a question. If a player's award is monetary (not in percentage), how is that counted towards the 11.7?
Let's say tuition is 20K and the award is 5K, how does money have nothing to do with it?
Why do coaches give some percentage and some money?

TPM...How are you? Food for thought for those in the "process" as we speak...If asked, ALWAYS take the %% not the $$. Tuition is never going down, and if it increases $1000 every year, as it does, and you have $10,000 as a scholarship amount, you will continue to get $10,000 every year regardless of the increases. If you get a 50% offer($10,000 of $20,000), not a $$ offer with the same senario, you would now get $10,500 or half of the increase. Under the $$ rule you will continually have to fund the increases.
Also, there are many examples of scholarship $$ being decreased for many reasons. The NLI does not protect you, and, the scholarships at many schools are renegotiated at the end of year player/coach exit interviews. It is a performance based sport and that is why all of us harp on finding the right fit, checking the rosters, checking the JC transfers etc, etc. Do your homework!

In State

Tuition $9,000 = 59%
Room $3,200 = 21%
Board $2,500 = 16%
Books $500 = 04%
Full $15,200 = 100% Full Scholarship

Out of State

Tuition $18,000 = 75%
Room $3,200 = 13%
Board $2,500 = 10%
Books $500 = 02%
Full $24,2000 = 100% Full Scholarship

Given the above dollar figures and their respective percentages of one full scholarship wouldn't it make sense that the given Univ/Baseball Program/Coach can get more bang for his buck (so to speak) by recruiting in-state players?

Two Examples: Based on Numbers above.

A. John Doe (RHP)is in state and is given Tuition which counts as .59 or 59% of one full scholarship which is deducted from 11.7

B. John Doe II (RHP) is out of state and is given Tuition which counts as .75 or 75% of one full scholarship which is deducted from 11.7

The money I speak of comes from the athletic department to be used for athletic aid via baseball scholarships.

Tuition increases will happen yearly. If you are offerred a partial tuition scholarship this Nov they have no other numbers to go by except the current ones for this school year. Simply ask the coach to put in writting that he will honor the same percentage based on next years numbers (which is when you will be attending). Most will have no problem doing so. They are not all out to scr*w people. Some are a little shady.

1. In State signee for 50% of 9K tuition which totals $4,500.

2. Tuition increases for in state to $9,800

3. I think you find most coaches/univ will honor the 50% of $9,800 which totals $4,900

NOTE: The Coach/Baseball Program has a certain amount of money to give in athletic aid. That money must have a percentage of an in state or out of state scholarship as to be counted in compliance w/ the allowable 11.7

You may request the money be used to pay for anything you desire (Tuition, Room, Board, Books). In some cases there outside scholarship awards that may be used for only Tuition for example.

Does all of this make sense? Or am I way off base?

Stazz,
Hey hi how are you. I see catchersdad brought out the best in you!

My son's scholarship is in percentage, but i got to thinking (that's dangerous). If my son is receiving a 50% of 25K (example) that's 12.5K in aid, I have to pay the rest. The following year it's 30, that's 15K I have to pay, the government says I don't qualify for outside help. Now if my son got $$ let's say 12.5 towards 25, the following year it rises to 30K, that's 17.5K, my part. Most likely I will now be eligible for more financial dollars coming elsewhere. Correct? If so I can see why some prefer that option.
Also, that 12.5 of 25K has to be given to NCAA as(according to what I am reading here) 50%. Now with 12.5K and 30K expenses, he is reporting the percentage as LESS, correct. I see why so many coaches give out money only.

So if all the above might make sense, are we to tell another person a monetary award is not a good one?

Perhaps someone closer to the issue might be able to confirm (or deny) this point, but all the In Process Folk should, indeed, fill out the FAFSA forms as soon as they have been able to file their 2006 tax forms.

My impression from dealing with two schools is that the schools are allotted some Federal money, and they use the FAFSA information to award it to their students. With (obviously) the same information, my son was awarded a nice grant; my daughter got zippo (she, of course, couldn't hit water if she fell out of a boat , which was obviously the difference).

Given a close relationship between the baseball program and the financial aid office, avenues may be opened that might otherwise be blocked off.

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando:
but all the In Process Folk should, indeed, fill out the FAFSA forms as soon as they have been able to file their 2006 tax forms.

Great tip Orlando. Even if the tax forms have not been filed you can fill out the FAFSA with estimated income. Doing it online also speeds up the process tremendously!