13 Year Old LH Pitcher

Sounds like you just got bit by the "radar" bug.....lol.  IMO, save your money, you don't need to worry about velocity at this point.

 

The last two summer season I intentionally avoided going behind the plate area when he pitched as to avoid the gun, for the exact same reason as you stated......I walked down the line and focused on his pitch location and mechanics.  Of course, after the game he would always ask if I saw the gun, and I would tell him know and then ask him how he felt his velocity was, then we would talk about the other stuff.

Over the next couple of years your son will gain velocity regardless of his skills just by becoming bigger and stronger. In fact he may pitch to the gun and throw off his mechanics. Don't get caught up on the radar gun. Focus on mechanics, command and arm health. The velocity will continue to come.

This is the first time he had ever been on a radar gun - we have focused solely on mechanics.  I was just going on what the pitching coach recommended and reaching out here.

1. I know three people that have purchased a pocket radar. Two hate it one loves it but the one that loves it only uses it in his back yard. He's never tried it at a game. I've never used one so that's all the review I can give.

2. If it's ligit then yes 70 at 13 is very good. Especially if he is an average sized 13 year old and not already full grown as some 13 year olds are. Well and even then it ain't bad lol.

Thank you for the feedback.

Yes the radar was done by a legit div 1 college pitching coach...  My son is average size.

Good advice so far. Get good instruction, and DO NOT let him be over used by coaches and teams. I would really limit his pitch count and innings. When he gets to HS then get in a good strength and conditioning program, up till then let him go where his passion takes him, including multiple sports, if he is interested. 

Perfect Game player profiles list the average and top velocities for all players in each high school class. For example, the average for 2017 LHPs is 74 mph. Just find any 2017 LHP's profile, hover over the FB scale, and the stats will display. The averages will change constantly as more data is gathered. I don't know if any 2018s are listed yet.

Yes, good velocity for 13 yr old (& even better LHP). Politically correct to say don't get caught up in velo; my opinion BS. Good time to start charting his progress. Don't waste your money on Pocket Radar, get a Stalker or Jugs. Good time of year to buy one used, check EBay. They have a Jugs now listed in the low 200's with a day left that will probably sell for under $300. My understanding is Jugs will be a little faster than Stalker (have Stalker while HS had Jugs & Jugs) seems to be about 2-3 mph faster). Another option is Bushnell; while worthless (IMO) from behind the plate it's within 1-2 mph lower than my Stlaker from directly behind pitcher (compared to PC's Bushnell). Control & location matter ( a lot), but at 13 time to start keeping up with the velo.

Wrong.  It's all about velocity.  At 13, you need to focus on ensuring he has superb mechanics--but those same mechanics will add velocity. 

Once he's 15, 16 he should focus on a hard fastball first and a solid breaking pitch.  The "command and control" you speak of is worthless if he doesn't have a hard fastball entering his senior year in h.s.  Better to learn how to "command and control" a plus fastball later than never having one.  Besides, in h.s. too many kids are successful with junk pitches and never learn how to compete with a fastball.

 

This carries into college.  College sliders and other junk, it all works well until you go against the advanced hitters.  Teach your kid to compete with that fastball early.

Good advice already on other aspects of the OP's questions.  I'll address the Pocket Radar part, since I own one.  I use it, BTW, to enter velocities as well as pitch types and locations, into iScore.  I do not volunteer info to the kids, and really will only tell them if they pester me (which most didn't, until about 16U).

 

The Pocket Radar is a decent, cheaper alternative to a full size gun.  Depending on location (you have to be pretty close to straight on, and not off to an angle, to get a proper reading), it is probably accurate within +/- 1-3 mph.  I find when I have a chance to calibrate versus a "real" gun - usually at PG events - that it usually errs on the low side.  That may be a user issue because of how it works - you push and release a button to get the reading, so it could be related to the timing of how and when I push the button.  It's definitely suited to my purposes, and close enough to get a good relative idea about where various pitchers are, velocity-wise.  It's also small enough to pack away in your pocket, so you can be a bit stealthy if you want to be and avoid the inevitable questions. I like the product.

Bum, at what age did you allow your son's velocity to be measured?  

 

I'm debating on whether to start measuring my son's velocity this year (freshman) or next year (sophomore). 

Far sooner than it was relevant, I will admit.  If your son is in h.s. you should be tracking his progress.  Having said that, I don't think you need a radar gun.  You can judge progress by long-toss distance, getting gunned by the occasional dad with a gun..

 

..and if he's throwing hard as a senior just stand behind the scouts.

Yeah, good point about the long toss.  I just talked to my son and we will start LT tomorrow.  That will be a good gauge.  I know his farthest he reached on the football field and that was not being in great shape. 

 

Now that football is over I will be anxious to see how the weights and 3 hr football practices have improved him.  

 

I'm hoping to get most of the baseball team out there to join him.  

This is good advice, clearly mechanics, having an arsenal, and velocity are all important.  Just a quick word on the pocket radar since I own one as well.  I've calibrated twice against a college stadium system (posted on the scoreboard) and once against a scout's gun.  About 50% of the time I got the same reading, and the other 50% the pocket radar was 1 to 3 MPH lower than what I was comparing to.  Some of the time I didn't get a reading at all (user error, most likely).  However, IMO the best thing about it is that it looks like a phone and you don't have to announce to all what you're doing if you want to capture some info in a game situation.  (I got a coupon from PG email and it was under $200, new.)

I have never used a Pocket RADAR but I've seen college coaches using them to scout, so I have to believe they are reasonably reliable.  I was actually thinking of putting one on my Christmas list, but I think I would look for one used on Ebay!

As to your son:

 

70+ is very good for a 13-year-old.  For a lefty, it's an indication of a POSSIBLE future.  I say POSSIBLE because there are lots of variables to consider.  One is whether your son is going to continue growing physically, or whether he's one of those who gets early puberty and then stops growing.  Your and your wife's family history can give you an idea on that.  The next big question is how your son handles his transition to pre-adulthood.  Is he self-motivated?  Does he embrace the need to work to reach goals?  And does he have this as his goal?  Or will he be one who gets side tracked by girls/job/beer or what have you?  On the latter, you just never know; get back to me in 3 years.

 

If he does say that he wants to become a pitching prospect, then I am in Bum's camp.    Meaning, to me it's all about the fastball.

 

The most important things to do to develop a young pitcher are to develop sound mechanics, to have sensible but steady commitment to conditioning, and to build competitiveness.  For mechanics and conditioning, the main way to gauge your progress is by checking his top MPH and his more typical fastball MPH from time to time.  I would suggest you do it in April, July, and September.  Checking every day is pointless, frustrating and obsessive.  Also, while I don't expect a 13-year-old to have spot control, you don't count any MPH readings that aren't in the strike zone.  If his mechanics and conditioning are good, he should be in the strike zone consistently.  If he isn't, something is off.

 

Of course, he will need qualify off-speed pitches.  Work on a change now, and ease into a curve starting maybe a year from now.  But understand that neither will help him much unless and until he can throw his fastball for strikes.  So, focus on the main thing first.

 

Once he can move his 4-seam fastball to either side of the plate consistently, you can add a 2-seamer to the mix as well.  But again, do all you can to ignore those who would have you use the typical lefty movement to the detriment of developing his fastball velocity.  Lots of people want to win today's game or see a lot of K's right now.  That's fun, and of course any time you're on the field you play to win.  But keep your eye on the long-term objective, and you can have success both today and in the future.

Thanks everybody for the feedback.  Its been an interesting journey.  I pretty much knew nothing about baseball one year ago.  I just know I had been told that my son seemed to have talent and he LOVES the game.  So I set out to educate my self.  A year ago on these forums everyone preached mechanics and arm health and thats pretty much all we have focused on in the past year along with a really excellent LHP coach who has done wonders for my son's command control and mechanics.

 

I will say for any other "lost dad's" coming down the road what I see happening now and have heard may talk about is 8th and 9th grade is when you will really tell if its something to get more serious about or not.  This is especially true when its pretty clear you have a LHP who throws hard, has good control, etc. and loves the game - being serious seems a little more "real" I guess you could say. 

 

You have real decisions to make - $2K or $3K for select/travel ball.  Lots of money on equipment, lessons, cages and everything else not to mention the time commitment.  In short like my son's coach said there is "playing ball" and then there is "playing ball for real".  

 

I purposefully held off on doing ANY pushing on radar guns, game success or what ever to see if my son was REALLY into it - was it worth it or a passing fad?  

 

Walking around with him at pitching camp and seeing the following pretty much proved to me its for real:

 

1.  Intensity compared to the other boys and frankly seeing him pitch as well as kids 2 or 3 years older than him

 

2.  The confirmation of the Dev 1 pitching coach the kid is pretty good

 

3.  Clocked in the low 70s at 13

 

4.  Did I mention he is left handed?

 

That all goes into the calculation of whats next.  We are in a tough spot because our son is home schooled so we have to figure out options for him to play high school ball.  Fortunately in our area there are two quality home school teams that compete at a high level.  

 

Am I over thinking it?  Maybe - do I feel now is the time to track how hard he throws - ABSOLUTELY - we have done the rest and reality is to make and stay on a good team like our local high school or some of the home school teams he has to be throwing hard - period.  Its reality.  But I feel confident in doing that now because the fundamentals are in place - good mechanics, love of the game, good arm health habits, etc.  

I have a pocket radar and if used under the correct circumstances - it is very accurate. In order to get this accuracy you need to be directly in front of or behind the ball. The more you or off to the side - the more inaccurate it is. If behind home plate - along with scouts with very expensive radar - my pocket radar was never more than 1mph off of the expensive ones - most of the time right on. If you step even 10 feet to the side - you start to see 2-4 mph difference. If you are in stands at angle - not useful at all.

 

For training purposes and HS games  - it is a fun and useful tool because you can usually stand where you want. Its not something you can use from the stands though.

 

This is the path I had my 2017 3B/RHP follow.  It was a 4-seam only, learning to hit spots, and then a change.  Then a 2-seam was added.  Finally, this past fall of his freshman year, he started to throw a few curves.  I've always preached location, location, location with him.  That and the willingness to pitch inside, which he has.

Yes my son's pitching coach has been preaching the change up.  He has a good 4 and 2 seam already and can hit his spots.  He has so much natural movement on the ball that the change up has been harder to time locations on but he is getting there.

LD,

I also wanted to emphasize, since you mentioned your lack of experience (I was there a few years ago) and your son's skill (high).  The most important thing is protecting his arm and keeping him healthy.  Some coaches will play boys too long, at too young an age (before 16 or so when the growth plates fuse), too early in the season, with too many curveballs, and forget to focus on the longer term picture in their eagerness to win the game.  If your son throws hard, he is more at risk of developing strains, shoulder issues, or "little league elbow".  These can be fairly serious, and can lead to missing a season or worse.  Missing a season can get him behind, affect his confidence, and is all around a bad thing.  Talk to your pitching coach about what to look for, how to set limits, and discuss this with your son and his coach.  Your son needs to be reminded to never "play through pain" and to be very in touch with how his body is adapting to conditioning, puberty, and the stress that pitching can put on it.  Don't be afraid to be the parent who speaks up, advocates for his son, asks lots of questions, and plays the part of the "squeaky wheel".  I speak from experience, just one kid, but PM me if you want more info.

 

Again, best of luck.  My son is a 16 YO junior in HS, and healthy, knock wood

Yes totally agree - in the spring he  was getting over used a bit including a complete game no hitter and started to get sore - fortunately we were able to take care of it.  His pitching coach is now his team coach and is constantly preaching arm health.

I use a Bushnell III. It is far superior to the Bushnell II and can be had for around $100. I also owned a Jugs and used the 2 simultaneously for a year. I ended up selling the Jugs because the Bushnell was accurate enough for my use. The only difference between the two is that you need closer access with the Bushnell. With the II, you had to be within 100 feet of the mound to get a good reading, the Bushnell III seems to be good from about 130 feet, maybe more. If you're trying to use it in game you'll want a better gun, like Jugs are Stalker. If you're using it in a practice environment where you can be closer, the Bushnell is fine. I warn you, though, having used both together, the Bushnell is consistently 2-3 mph slow. However, consistency is the key. You can still use it to track improvement, change of speed, etc.

 

As a side, I've always used the gun, even on kids as young as 9yo. I've never noticed any problem with kids "throwing to the gun." Especially if they are used to seeing it around in practice. It's a great tool for noting the difference between their fastball and off-speed stuff as well as for judging improvement. Velocity is everything in pitching. Great mechanics improve velocity and there is only one way to know if your mechanical changes are producing results at any age.

root, good insight, but clocking 9 y.o. pitchers is not the thing to do.

Been doing it for 20 years. I haven't once seen what I think is a kid doing something different. Every kid I've worked with throws his hardest when I ask whether a gun is there or not. I'll admit, that at nine, it's uses are limited and not necessarily worth the effort, but kids, even at 6 or 7yo, will, at one point or another throw their hardest. the question is, do they know how to do it. What is worse, to me, is radar booths at ML staiums and carnivals where young kids step up and sling it as hard as they can without any warmup whatsoever. Even with young kids, however, they will definitely buy into your pitching instruction if you can show them that it makes a difference. This is even more true when you get to 11, 12 and up. Especially when I'm being paid, there better be some quantifiable improvement to justify the expense.

As someone who has only been seriously involved with baseball for a year - I find the whole clocking discussion interesting.  I now tend to lean more towards your crazy to NOT be clocking your kid if your 1/2 way serious about a future of baseball for him and he has the potential to go somewhere.  

 

But your also crazy to do that as the first thing you do if you know nothing about arm health, mechanics, etc. the old "look how hard he can throw" type thing.

 

There was a kid on my son's last team who threw VERY hard but didn't take any lessons for pitching and really had little guidance on arm health - pretty sure he is going to end up hurting his arm at some point and would probably step up and try and go harder and harder if being clocked regularly.  That would be a bad situation.

 

Its all al balance...

Using a radar gun is no different than using a stop watch. It's simply a measuring device. The problem isn't the device it's how you use it. You can blow out kids hamstrings timing 40's too.

I've also done the follwoing. I'll have a new student warm up, take the mound and start throwing fastballs. Standing behind him, I'll pull out the gun without him seeing it and get one fastball reading. "Look. 61mph." "Now throw harder." Of course, they will try and out throw that. "59mph." "You can't throw faster just by trying." If you can make mechanical improvements and then show them that it improves velocity, you gain credibility with a kid. With me, even at younger ages, get the velocity to its maximum potential, then you can work on everything else.

OK let me open up one more can of worms - so while there is NO ideal type pitcher per se - reality is best if Left Handed, High Velocity, and at least 6' or 6'1 based on what I have read.  Yes there are of course exceptions on the height.  

 

My 13 year old is just now starting puberty and a growth spurt - he is about 5'5   Based on current age and height he will come in right around 6' maybe 6'1 based on those calculators you can find on the web.  So am I crazy to think about this now?  If here were on track to be 5'8 or something I guess for college he would probably be fine as we aren't even thinking beyond that but "projectable" is an interesting aspect of all this that I have just started to think about and learn what the term actually means.

 

Regarding velocity if he is say 73 tops now in 8th grade and if the average is 3 miles per hour per year until senior then he will be in the 88 mile range as a senior if the average holds.  

 

Seems like a pretty good "projection"

I think you should hold off on "projection" until about 15yo. It's a tough road. I certainly hope those kind of projections hold well. My own 13yo (14 in April) is 6' 2" / 165 lbs. / size 15 shoe with a fastball that has touched 83 and cruises at 78-79mph. He's projected by doctors to be around 6' 7" based on bone scan. I'm only 5' 11", but his maternal grandfather is 6' 10". However, he could stop growing at any time and the fastball could top out in a year or two (of course I'd love to see the 3mph/year increase hold). Physically, they will be what they will be - that is something you can't control. I find no use in projecting right now. there are, however, things that can be influenced and controled. that is what to work on.