15 Year old BallPlayer killed

That is tragic and thank you for passing this on it really makes you think about what is going on in sports, as you may know here in Texas we just had a situation w/a parent shooting a local Football Coach due to some issues regarding a son's playing time/position on the field.

It is getting crazy and now, more than ever, we have coaches second guessing decisions based on how a parent may/player may or may/not react and now we as parents need to watch and listen to how our son's and their teammates react to situations and take words/actions seriously.......

I think a lot of this starts at home we need to protect our children, teach them respect, teach them how to handle the stress of the game and most of all they need to learn by example...Unfortunatly not all families operate in this manner..........

My prayers and thoughts go out to this boys family and his team................and to the family of the young man that caused all this pain.

Before everyone gets on the "these kid's today" bandwagon we need to realize that sometimes "shet happens" regardless of the time in history, moral values, or whatever reason we come up with for the actions of kids today.

The kid with the bat was younger, was being teased after a 1st loss, had been cut in line at the refreshment stand, and who knows what elso contributed to the event. Bottom line he was a good kid who made a huge mistake, and forever will pay for it.

I remember growing up and in the mid 60's an older kid was being a bully, threatening others with water balloons, using his bike to play chicken with the other kids, overall being a jerk. One kid stuck a stick in his spokes on his next pass on the bike and the bully was now airborn and landed square on his head which resulted in a severe head injury. The kid with the stick was a sissy, non-troublemaker, had great parents, and overall a good kid who just had enough of the other kids bs. After some time the kid recovered with no permenent brain damage. To this day I don't remember picking up that stick, or why, but it is embedded deep in my mind and many times when things like this happen I reflect on what could have happened to me.

tragic bat story

This is not a gang drivin drive-by story, pre-meditated school shooting, or a cult related incident. Nor, is it an example of what sports do to our youth. It is a tragic accident that will live in the minds of many people for the rest of their lives.

rz1 - awesome post and perspective. I think often that many people are just lucky sometimes. I know I got lucky with some stupid things that could have turned out far, far worse. My parents were good parents as well. Thanks again.

RZ1

If you thought I was getting on the "these kids today" bandwagon I am sorry, that wasn't my intent, but coming from TX with the recent situation and then having a call today from a friend at a different school/state tell me that her son has been getting harrassed by a fellow player and she was getting scared this just hit toooooo close to home. It isn't anything new, remember the TX Cheerleader situation years ago?

I have witnessed out of control parents and coaches for years but when it reaches the players level, for whatever reason (frustration, immaturity, a short fuse, moment of insanity) it is scary and as a parent it makes you question attitudes, listen a bit closer to verbal comments and watch out of control behavior. After all my #1 goal as a parent is to protect my children in any arena of life whether it be in sports, at school, in a car or at home.

This is just one more situation that we need to sit back and think "what went wrong" and is there anyway we can see the potential in this happening again and if so react. Not judge the person involved but take the situation and realize it did happen and why it happened and other factors that could have made it happen.

Maybe I haven't been around this sporting community long enough, but I started as a coach, then formed our a local baseball/softball league, managed a select team and now am just a mom on the sidelines and in these few short years (10yrs) I have seen the intensity from players/coaches/parents grow to almost out of control situations each year. It isn't all but just a select few but it is out there and not getting any better. I am very competitive and love to win but when it becomes out of control or when the player is feeling pressure to perform or when there is the stress at a young age of earning their spot things can happen and the result can be negative. Even the use of steriods can be a reaction to the stress to perform or the need to keep a spot on a team and we have seen the negative result of that choice.

It isn't that sports are the root of the problem, it isn't parents that are the cause, but you add up all the stress of today's world then put that into a competitive arena and then yes, maybe it is us as parents that need to support the good kid, help the troubled kid and watch out for things or listen to words that just don't seem right....

It is a short time we have with these young players but how they deal with stress, how they deal with other players (good/bad) will be life lessons....

Once again, very sad for all involved and I pray for all of them.

Oldbat-never,
This was never intended toward you. Matter a fact when I began writing this your post was not up yet, I just happen to be interupted by the smell of bacon before I finished. My thoughts were very general and just an opinion directed to the masses.

Human behavior and responses are motivated by "knee-jerk" reactions to tragic situations and then is fueled even more by the blood driven media looking to fill space. They will milk this story for weeks and associate it in any way possble to create another story. Shame on them

We cannot sheild our kids from everthing or explain every potential situation that could come up. If anything, this is a great "quality time" conversation topic with our kids. The actual situation is not the topic, but the fact that we are ultimately responsible for our actions is.

Rz1

Just wanted to make sure as I never know how posts are viewed when read...the mom in me just comes out sometimes-protection mode...

You are so right on the discussion about the responsibility of our actions and that is the direction I will take tonight during our dinner table conversation on this............thank your for that direction on this tragic topic.

I'm with you 100%. The only thing that I would question of yours is.

quote:

It isn't that sports are the root of the problem, it isn't parents that are the cause, but you add up all the stress of today's world then put that into a competitive arena

I tried that line on my grandmother who as far as I'm concerned is the smartest person in the world and who still goes to all my sons games at 93 years old. She TOLD me that "you have pressures? What about waking up every morning during the depression wondering where your next meal was, or if your kid may be a polio victim, or if the air raid shelters would really protect you from nuclear fallout. Now that is pressure on a daily basis".

She went on to say every generation has it's trials and tribulations. The important thing is to not use it as a crutch but make sure we learn from them so we prepare our kids for the next wave.

Rz1 - Great post and prespective....There are dozens of stories like this. I am a trauma nurse in a busy inter-city hopital and I see first hand how mistakes can ruin lives. I tell my teenage boys all the time how a bad decision like getting behind the wheel of a car after drinking or fighting, could cost one person his life and another his freedom...even if that was never the intent.

What a tragic and sad story. I'll keep both families in my prayers.

Rz1
Your Grandmother is right they had a generation of hard times as did mine. And sometimes our generation and our kids are viewed as spoiled and getting things the easy way. But I would never ever trade my upbringing in the 60's with my son's generation today and the stress he sees and has as an athlete, student and teenager.

I felt safe at school, safe on my bike late at night, safe as a teenager cruising up and down main street (no gang bangers then), felt our country was so secure that we would never have to deal with let alone watch on TV attacks by our enemy on our soil, safe that my parents marriage would last forever, confident that with a college eduation there was a job waiting for me, that cancer was so isolated that you heard about it only now and again, the only thing I worried about w/unprotected s-- was getting pregnant not dying of AIDS.....and when it came to sports, at my school, if you had the equipment and your parents could pick you up after practice you were on the team..........I don't remember anyone playing so they could get a scholorship or get noticed.

Yes, each generation has stress in different forms and how we deal with it as a generation will show the true strength or weakness of that generation.

I am a firm believer that organized sports are the best thing for children. The incident was not of the norm and very tragic for everyone who was in attendance and even more so for the families that were involved. My heart goes out to them and I will keep them in my prayers.
I have seen far to many children stray and head into trouble once they are no longer involved in any sport. My son has played and loved the game of baseball since T-ball. My daughter has never found one sport that she truly loves but she is always involved in something. Whether it is softball, running, s****r, chearleading or drama. It provides discipline, teaches them time managment, team work and these are all things they will need in their adult lives.

I received an email yesterday from a very close friend and it was title "Wonderful Message by George Carlin. It is about how times have changed but we are still the same.
GEORGE CARLIN (His wife recently died...)
Isn't it amazing that George Carlin - iconoclastic and
mouthy comedian of the 70's and 80's - could write
something so very eloquent .
A wonderful Message by George Carlin:


The paradox of our time in history is that we have
taller buildings but shorter tempers, wider
freeways, but narrower viewpoints. We spend more,
but have less, we buy more, but enjoy less. We have
bigger houses and smaller families, more
conveniences, but less time. We have more degrees
but less sense, more knowledge, but less judgment,
more experts, yet more problems, more medicine, but
less wellness.

We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too
recklessly, laugh too little, drive too fast, get
too angry, stay up too late, get up too tired, read
too little, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom.
We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our
values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and hate
too often.

We've learned how to make a living, but not a life.
We've added years to life not life to years. We've
been all the way to the moon and back, but have
trouble crossing the street to meet a new neighbor.
We conquered outer space but not inner space. We've
done larger things, but not better things.
We've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul.

We've conquered the atom, but not our prejudice. We
write more, but learn less. We plan more, but
accomplish less. We've learned to rush, but not to
wait. We build more computers to hold more
information, to produce more copies than ever, but
we communicate less and less.

These are the times of fast foods and slow
digestion, big men and small character, steep
profits and shallow relationships. These are the
days of two incomes but more divorce, fancier
houses, but broken homes. These are days of quick
trips, disposable diapers, throwaway morality, one
night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do
everything from cheer, to quiet, to kill.
It is a time when there is much in the showroom window and
nothing in the stockroom. A time when technology can
bring this letter to you, and a time when you can
choose either to share this insight, or to just hit
delete.

Remember, spend some time with your loved ones,
because they are not going to be around forever.
Remember, say a kind word to someone who looks up to
you in awe, because that little person soon will
grow up and leave your side.

Remember, to give a warm hug to the one next to you,
because that is the only treasure you can give with
your heart and it doesn't cost a cent.
Remember, to say, "I love you" to your partner and
your loved ones, but most of all mean it. A kiss and
an embrace will mend hurt when it comes from deep
inside of you.

Remember to hold hands and cherish the moment for
someday that person will not be there again.
Give time to love, give time to speak, and give time
to share the precious thoughts in your mind.


AND ALWAYS REMEMBER:

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we
take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
George Carlin

It is very true that every generation has it's own stress. Heck there was a time (and in some areas may still be) where kids had to worry about getting attacked by a cougar on the way to school.

It is also true that a stupid mistake can have a dramatic effect on your life, and that of others.

Let's be realistic though, putting a stick in the wheel of a bicycle and hitting someone it the head with a bat are not equal. Sure, both can have damaging effects, but what made the stick a stupid mistake was that the kid did not KNOW what the results of that stick COULD be.

I agree wholeheartedly that it isn't "kids today". However, I do NOT buy the "stupid mistake" argument.

No doubt we ahve all made our share of "stupid mistakes" over the years. Some could have proven tragic. In many cases we simply got very lucky.

But aiming a bat at someones head and swinging it does not, and will never, in my mind count as nothing more than a "stupid mistake".

AParent, In hindsitght you are right it is not the same, but at that moment in time that young man in CA I doubt was thinking of killing that boy. I was not there, or inside his mind, but I doubt there are few people on this earth who woke up this morning in such pain wondering what the hell happen yesterday. At this time there was no evidence of psycotic tendencies, he was a ballplayer like our kids who by his own fault had a real bad day. The parents of the kid who died pleaded that this boy not be considered a monster, because he was not. That in itself is a tribute to his character.

OBNever, I remember the Cuban missle crisis, the Kennedy's, MLK, Watergate, weapons of mass destruction, Kent State, discrimination, "real drugs", being in the wrong place and getting tear gassed at 13, Sterling hall bombing, Viet Nam draft, and when watching the news I thought everyone owned a Huey helecoptor and M-16. I wouldn't trade any of it either, as I am stronger and wiser for it. We are continiously evolving as a race, and with any evolution there is a dark side. I do know one thing for sure and that is I would have enjoyed growing up in my kids generation also because of the opportunities and challenges they have. You play with, and make the best of the hand your dealt. If you sit a mull over what you got your chances of becomming a casulty go way up. Maybe I'm out in RF and not in touch with reality, but those are my feelings.

Shanes#1fan- Carlin was so far ahead of his time that he is only beginning to be understood. But then again maybe thats because those who listened years ago can't remember what he said.

Shanes - Isn't that amazing that things work that way. Days of microwaves and cell phones don't seem to give us more "precious time". I'm going to print that out and put on my desk at work.

Rz - Your grandmother is a smart lady.

I'll pray for all involved in this sad story.

I bet they will later find signs of violence and abuse from the 13 year accused killer. No normal kid reacts by someone cutting in line by murder, Not a bad mistake like some clueless parent commented. There are always warning signs with violence. Sorry to Play Dr Phil, but seen so many nut job parents going pysco at youth league games and wonder why their kid is a nut job. Comes down to parenting or lack of it

...pressure to succeed. ...mood altering drugs. ...birth order. ...time of the month. ...violence on TV. Who knows. Many will be blamed and feel guilt over this tragedy. Others will whisper and point fingers. Oportunists will espouse private agendas. Lots of attorneys will try to make money off of this. Some may. And hundreds will weep and pray for the families. I certainly don't know answers. I do know that parents have a responsibility to teach restraint and respect.

When I was in college, I listened to a wise man explain how I could either take responsibility for, and control of, my life, or I would surrender control to someone else. There is no in between.

My heart and prayers go out to these families and their community.

i disagree w/ you dibble when you say "no normal kid reacts to someone cutting in line by murder". now i certainly dont know all the details, but i am certain that the kid didnt just whip out a gun right away. as the article said the 15 yr old was taunting the kid. this must have escalated for several minutes before the 13 yr old decided he couldn't take it any more. i think it was cowardly of him to hit the kid w/ a bat, but i'm not surprised that he reacted violently; any 13 yr old kid would if you really pushed the right buttons. believe me i'm a hockey player so i've seen it all when it comes to fist-fighting at games- mothers/fathers/grandparents fighting in the stands, teammates fighting, coaches (of the same team) fighting, player-referee fighting, arrests, etc. like i said i dont know all the facts but i really dont think that this is one of those situations; indeed i believe that it was, as one parent commented, a bad mistake.

Sorry a baseball bat can be a deadly weapon and it was. So what he taunted him, walk away or punch him out. No one should DIE because a 13 year old cant deal with some pressure because he lost a game. Look he hit him first in the leg, which i sure stopped the taunting , he did not stop and then to the head which killed him.

Try watching a T Ball game the parents there yell and scream and yell obsenties at 5-6 years.

Bad mistakes are not MURDER, which is what happened.

like i said already i agree that he definitely shouldn't have used a bat but unfortunately he did. i can certainly imagine this kid knocking the other kid off his feet w/ a bat and then, caught in the heat of the moment and overcome by rage, continuing to beat the kid when he's down. i think what he did was stupid and cowardly but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a whack job.

quote:

but i'm not surprised that he reacted violently; any 13 yr old kid would if you really pushed the right buttons.

I can't imagine that you actually made this statement, irishpride. That is a generalization that is way over the top. I know a kid who was 13 once and had to endure quite a bit of trash talk and taunting that year ... he would never have considered picking up a metal bat and hitting another kid in the leg, let alone the head, as a way to deal with the trash talk.

Are there times when a teen, or anybody for that matter, might use force like this on another human? Yes, but every kid I know would only use that kind of deadly weapon if their lives were in danger or a loved one's life was being threated.

I realize that the average teen-ager could go over the edge if the all of right buttons are pushed ... perhaps repeatedly over a period of time ... but this is hardly a typical reaction to being teased by someone who, according to the news reports here in Southern California, was actually a friend of the 13 year-old.

This is one of the saddest stories I have ever heard in any sports environment and I feel badly for all of the people involved, including people who were witness to the tragedy (which makes me wonder why no one stopped him after he hit the boy in the leg) and might have been able to do something to stop it before it got this out of hand. I have always believed that adults should be responsible for guiding the youth in their immediate area from causing harm ... verbal or physical ... to other young people. This might have been a perfect time for adult interference.

being that this event happened in the general area where I live, its gotten alot of coverage here and from the reports here: The 13 year old, described as a very "competitive" kid had just been the losing pitcher to the league's last place team. The victim cut in line at the snack bar after the game, in front of the 13 year and was teasing him about losing. There were about 40 to 50 people around.

while it happened quickly, the 13 year old had the time to go over to his equipment bag, take out his metal bat, return to the snack bar line and hit the victim in the leg/knee. When the victim bent over from that blow, the 13 year old then caved the victim's head in with the next swing of his metal bat.

This is such a sorry, horrible event, but a mistake?. NOt a mistake IMO. Enough time to go get your bat, 40+ people watching and intentionally beating someone to death. There's alot of issues here, but an excusable mistake IMO is not one of them. Initial reports are that the 13 year old will be charged with murder.

This comes on the heels of another local event last week where a father went into an opposing HS team's dugout to attack the coaches because his son had been hit by a pitch. The son then joined the fracas. The son is/was a nationally ranked calibre player and has now been suspended for the season. I know this man and his son, whose attitudes are simply zero tolerance for anything they view as disrespect shown to them and I guess his son getting hit by a pitch is now such disrespect.

This 'respect' issue is at the heart of this insanity and of gang and related problems, turf wars between them and the resulting murders and mayhem. 'diss me and die is what this is all about. It is for real here in Los Angeles that there are parts of town where you better watch what you wear, what colors you have on and certainly, what you say, or you WILL die for it.

Like this killing in Palmdale Pony, this is about inflated egos out of control and the lack of self control in today's society- road rage, drive by killings etc. Heck, two days ago, two national champion USC football players fought over a dispute in a video game and one was left with a broken jaw. His highness, Coach Pete Carroll, treated it as 'boys will be boys'.

The old saying is long gone "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words.... they'll get you killed now.

future back mom- if you read my previous message again, you will see that i agree w/ you that this is, as you said, "hardly a typical reaction to being teased". there is no excuse whatsoever for using a bat, but honestly are you surprised that a kid reacted violently? i am not, and i'm not much older than the attacker. kids my age react WILL react violently to verbal abuse (maybe nudge the kid on the shoulder), but no i've never seen anyone attack anyone w/ a weapon such as in this incident. listen i'm not apologizing for the kid's behavior; i, too, can't believe he would use a bat, rather than maybe throw a punch to the stomach. all i'm saying is that 13 yr olds exercise poor judgement and will lose their temper, even inexcusably at times. i highly doubt this kid ever thought he could kill the victim, even w/ a bat. 13 yr olds can be pretty head strong; they dont understand how fragile life is. i know this sounds ridiculous to you future back mom, dibble and probably others but not to me. i'm guessing both of you are adults, but i'm only 15 so trust me, being almost the same age as the attacker, that i can understand what must have been going through the kid's mind at the time (even though i can't imagine myself ever doing anything of this sort).

after reading heybatter's last post i should also add that others, such as heybatter, may have more info that i dont have. my opinions are based on that article i read but i stand by them until someone who knows the attacker's family personally can tell me that the kid is a complete head case.

irishpride,

Debate all you want. Bottom line - violence is NEVER the answer to anything. IMO the actions of this young man can not be explained or excused. He is in need professional help. This venue is too short to explain my experience with teasing, taunting, and bullies and I stand by this statement. The problem is that this is not reinforced by parents and those in positions of leadership. Pray for all those involved in this tragic event.

Remember this is a game for pete's sake!

Outward appearances sometimes do not reflect the torment within.

However "typical" this young man may have appeared to those who knew him, he was NOT a typical kid.

There may have been hints to the problems below, there may NOT have been. Sometimes those with the most inner torment are the best at hiding it.

This was a very tragic incident. We need to pray for those who have, and will continue to suffer from it.

while a variety of interesting views have been expressed attempting to analyze and understand the tragedy - sadly, HeyBatter has the only real insight to the tradedy, and as evidenced by irishpride, the "additude" has spread far beyond LA

This is just typical of the environment in our country today.

Did you see the fan go after Sheffield last night in the Yanks-Red Sox game ?

Attend enough LL/HS/Pro Games and you will see it all the time, obviously,not to the extent of this incident but it is there and whats worse it is all around us, not just on the ball field

Here in our region we have a star hoops player fighting for his life after being shot "accidently" after a game.

quote:

Did you see the fan go after Sheffield last night in the Yanks-Red Sox game ?

Certainly nor defending but, that was a garden party compared to European S****r, which is downright medival.

There is something tragic happening across America to our children...and we need to find a solution quickly before it becomes rampant
We have kids bringing guns to school and shooting classmates...we have bat weilding baseball players...we have gang shootings...drug shootings...what have we become....do we have adults that are aware of problems and turn a blind eye...not just parents but teachers, coaches, friends and relatives....someone has to recognize trouble brewing within the depths of these kids minds...and if we all don't take an active interest in the kids of today we may end up with a society of homicidal adults in a few years down the road....scary thought!!!!!!


Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition inspired, and success achieved” (Helen Keller).

We will never know why? There is no clear cut answer. Teasing about losing seems a rather mild thing but it is what happens. Losing a baseball game is not among the worst tagedies that could happen to somebody but maybe just maybe kids are exposed to this winner mentality that they feel that failure is much worse than it actually is.

Thirty years ago, before Columbine, drive by shootings, or violent video games, my (then) husband was defending two foster children (12 and 14) who had shot and killed their foster father and then bludgeoned their foster mother. He said it was absolutley chilling to hear them talk about their foster parents: 'now they won't be so strict', 'he'll know we mean what we say'. They continued to talk about their foster parents in the present, as if unaware that what they had done was permanent.

The brain isn't completely wired yet at that age, and the line between fantasy and reality seems to be blurred. Yet another reason to have actual talks with your children, about news events, responsibilites, principles, and morality.

----------------------------
By the by, football stadiums in Europe have a set-up very strange to us Americans. There are no seats. When you get your ticket, it's to an area, maybe 10-20' square, bordered with piping. Although some have been trying to change to install seats, the retrofit is very expensive and cuts the number of paying customers. So they herd people (supporting both clubs) into these pens, standing up, no seats as barriers, feed them beer, and --- voila! -- they behave like a mob.

Only knowing what I have read in the article...I think I find one of the more amazing aspects of this story is the true grace the parents of the victim displayed by asking others to not demonize the 13-year-old attacker. The parents of the victim said the 13-year-old is not a "bad" boy and he will be haunted by his actions for the rest of his life, as will the parents. Despite the obvious pain and grief the parents are surely going thru, they somehow manage to still think of the other boy's well-being. I find THAT an amazing act of grace that I honestly believe I would not be able to display if I were in a similar situation.

This is such a sad, sad, story, breaks my heart. We can comment all we want, but we do not know what was going through this boy's mind at the time, and probably he didn't either. While I do believe it is not normal behavior, I do know from teaching experience many years ago that 12,13,14 year old preteens have a lot of hormonal rage going on within and some of their "normal" behavior left me speechless at times.
I agree with Orlando, when things like this happen it is good to have open comunication with our children about it.

smokey i NEVER said violence was the answer to anything. and i specifically said twice that his actions can NOT be excused. and i agree w/ you that he is in need of professional help. since i can't seem to get my point across clearly i will quote Orlando, who said it perfectly. "The brain isn't completely wired yet at that age, and the line between fantasy and reality seems to be blurred."

RZ1 Hats off to Grandma! Great post.

i was shocked to read this story last night. i
was even more shocked while listening to the san
jose state vs. nevada reno baseball game this
afternoon that the nevad ss is the uncle of the
young man that was killed. the ss by the way is
robert marcial a very good player and a great
great guy. my heart goes out to him and the rest
of the boys family. may god bless them...

This is a terrible incident. Remember to keep everyone involved in your prayers.