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Hello All - Long time reader/first time poster on this board, love this forum and have learned a lot from it as my son has progressed through the seasons. I keep hoping to see a thread get going regarding select baseball organizations around Dallas at the 15/16 age group heading into the 2013 season, but since there has not been one I thought I would dive in and ask for input on this (maybe it's a little early still, or maybe a little late considering many teams have already formed). I know that there have been some structural changes with various organizations. I'm interested in identifying a list of some of the better select organizations and 2013 Coaches *specifically* at the 15/16 age group. I realize that this is subjective and a somewhat political direct question... certainly not looking for any slams on individual organizations or Coaches please. Really just looking for a starting point consensus as to some the better 15/16U programs and Coaches moving forward into 2013 season.

Secondarily but related, I would also appreciate any input on the subject of a 15 year old player being better off playing with a 15U team vs 16U team. I guess that comes down to playing up to tougher competition vs perhaps seeing more significant playing time and positions on a younger team; but this is a little confusing to me considering the fact that most leagues and tournaments are 16U anyway (not many strictly 15U tourneys and no leagues, as I understand it). Moving into HS summer ball is a different animal for some of us who don't have any experience with it yet, or at least it is to me.

Sincere thanks for any guidance and feedback that you might offer.

When all is said and done, more is said than done.

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I’m not familiar with the Dallas area, other than knowing they have some pretty good baseball. I’m sure you will get some feedback on teams and programs from others in the area. As far as 15 vs 16, there are a lot more 16U teams than there are 15U teams (at least in my area). So with that being said, if you were on a 15U team your schedule may not be as full as you would like. There just may not be too many other 15U teams and tournaments to play in. The flip side to this is playing on a 16U team provided the player can handle it. There are plenty of teams and tournaments to participate in at the 16U level. The question is, how many innings would he get on a 15U roster with a 10 game schedule vs a 16U roster with a 30 game schedule. Again, I’m not too familiar with the Dallas area leagues and tournaments, just my thoughts on 15 vs. 16. Welcome to the HSBBWEB.
Soylent Green,
Wow. Haven't heard that name in decades.
I remember the movie.

There are plenty of 15u teams in D/FW. Good select clubs in alphabetical order -

Arlington A's
Dallas Mustangs
Dallas Patriots
Dallas Tigers
DBAT Mustangs
Fort Worth Cats
Texas Stixx
Texas Sun Devils

There are more and I'm sure you'll receive more comments and opinions.

A's, Dallas Mustangs, and Cats all play Premier League Ball that includes many other south Texas teams as well as teams from around the country. Good competition.
http://www.premierbaseball.net/

As far as "playing up", I believe it's always the best way to go. Occasionally return to your level to have some success, but you get better by playing better players.
Last edited by mj 8
A few others that seem to have some pretty good teams each year are also-

Frozen Ropes
Dallas Stars
DFW Twins

There are a lot of good ones, and a lot more bad ones. Dont necessarily look at just the logo on the Jersey, make sure the coach for that specific team is a good one. Doesnt do you much good to pay top dollar for a "D" team just so you can have a "Big Organization" logo.
We feel that we have a few good ones.
Our 15u teams , will play about half of their schedule in pure 15u events. We will play for 10 weeks, with a schedule of around 50-60 games. The other half we will mix in with the 16's.

Gators Baseball 15U - Coach Pepper Hastings, played at North Texas. Pepper has been involved in coaching for over 30 years.

Gators Baseball 15U - Coach Jeremy Reagan, played at Southwestern, and UTD. Fourth year as a Head Coach.

Gators Baseball 16U - Coach Stephen Smith, played at Seminole JC/Texas State, drafted by Cincinnati. Current Head Baseball Coach at Hamilton high school.
Coach Smith, has been involved in coaching for over 15 years.
Thanks for the responses and would appreciate any others. I agree that the reputation of the individual Coach is more important than the overall status of a given organization. There have been some good threads in the past regarding CM Coaches and also rating better training Coaches by discipline. I was hoping to get similar feedback on some of the better Coaches that will be leading 15 and especially 16 age teams this upcoming '13 Summer, even if their teams are already basically set, it's still interesting to know who will be some of the stronger teams heading into the Summer. I realize that HS Summer ball is more about playing ballgames as opposed to a lot of practice/instruction, but good and more experienced Coaches are still very valuable in Summer scenerio, IMO.

Also regarding playing 15U or 16U ball, I'm still confused on this because as I understand it most 15U teams play in 16U MM leagues and tournaments anyway. So level of competition should be about the same for those teams as for 16U teams, or is that not how it ends up working out? Sorry if I'm grasping at straws but just trying to get a better sense of what to expect with HS Summer ball.
quote:
Originally posted by Soylent Green:
Thanks for the responses and would appreciate any others. I agree that the reputation of the individual Coach is more important than the overall status of a given organization. There have been some good threads in the past regarding CM Coaches and also rating better training Coaches by discipline. I was hoping to get similar feedback on some of the better Coaches that will be leading 15 and especially 16 age teams this upcoming '13 Summer, even if their teams are already basically set, it's still interesting to know who will be some of the stronger teams heading into the Summer. I realize that HS Summer ball is more about playing ballgames as opposed to a lot of practice/instruction, but good and more experienced Coaches are still very valuable in Summer scenerio, IMO.

Also regarding playing 15U or 16U ball, I'm still confused on this because as I understand it most 15U teams play in 16U MM leagues and tournaments anyway. So level of competition should be about the same for those teams as for 16U teams, or is that not how it ends up working out? Sorry if I'm grasping at straws but just trying to get a better sense of what to expect with HS Summer ball.


The 15U aren't the only ones that play up. Many if not most of the top 16U teams will play a schedule that includes many 18U events.
For north Texas I would agree with the following
quote:

Arlington A's
Dallas Mustangs
Dallas Patriots
Dallas Tigers
DBAT
Fort Worth Cats
Texas Stixx


.... and add
Texas Blackhawks
Frozen Ropes

and if I was going to recognize a Storm team, it would be from www.wacostorm.com - and you could ask Baylor/UT coaches about that program - as well as any JUCO coaches.

Easiest way to figure out who are the teams that play at a high level year in and year out and get their kids the exposure is to email the asst coaches at TCU, UTA, DBU and ask who they would want their son playing for... pretty sure the only names you'd hear would be from above list... JMHO

I know my nephew's best friend's dad (kid plays out of Houston) said his programs 15u, 16u, 17u, 18u all played at the University of Texas this past fall (on different weekends) when football was out of town - vs Arlington A's, Ft. Worth Cats, Austin Slam, Austin Wings, South Texas Sliders, Houston Heat... that shows some respect if they are "taking care" of certain programs every weekend they can accomodate when football is out of town...
This topic applies for me exactly! Here is my question: Is my player better off to play on a 16U team that is NOT one of the big club teams that are listed on this thread or is he better off to play on a 15U team for one of these bigger club teams? My son pitches so I tend to think if he will get more games as a pitcher on a 15U team than he will if we go the 16U route in summer. He starts for jr. varisty at school and pitching is what he is most focused on these days Smile I would appreciate advice!!
quote:
Originally posted by JMartin:
For north Texas I would agree with the following
quote:

Arlington A's
Dallas Mustangs
Dallas Patriots
Dallas Tigers
DBAT
Fort Worth Cats
Texas Stixx


.... and add
Texas Blackhawks
Frozen Ropes

and if I was going to recognize a Storm team, it would be from www.wacostorm.com - and you could ask Baylor/UT coaches about that program - as well as any JUCO coaches.

Easiest way to figure out who are the teams that play at a high level year in and year out and get their kids the exposure is to email the asst coaches at TCU, UTA, DBU and ask who they would want their son playing for... pretty sure the only names you'd hear would be from above list... JMHO

I know my nephew's best friend's dad (kid plays out of Houston) said his programs 15u, 16u, 17u, 18u all played at the University of Texas this past fall (on different weekends) when football was out of town - vs Arlington A's, Ft. Worth Cats, Austin Slam, Austin Wings, South Texas Sliders, Houston Heat... that shows some respect if they are "taking care" of certain programs every weekend they can accomodate when football is out of town...


Those teams definitely have the history. I'll give you that, but I would put our team up against any of those and our record vs. those teams show that.

Thanks for you input.
Ha! Good one Who's on First.... you help make my point... those teams listed don't care about who beat who when, and their record against this team or that team.... it's about playing quality opponents and getting exposure for this kids...

So can you call Baylor, UT, TCU and get on their field when it's available... James Ellison, Sam Carpenter, and Dave Acton could - and do.

Just for grins, shoot me your website so I can go see how your 16u fared last summer against Thorton's Frozen Rope team, Vanlandingham's and Hernandez's Tigers team, Cade's top DBAT team, A's top 16u team, Gustafson/Reagan's 16u Cats team,Logan's top 16u team or Sharp's Dallas Mustang team....
AS FOR PLAYING UP.... great read from Steven August (former Traveling Secretary of Boston Red Sox for 8 years, then went on to become the Asst GM and Director of Baseball Operations) He currently runs the New England Ruffnecks, which program was just nominated into www.premierbaseball.net

"With greater frequency we hear inquiring parents tell us that their son has “always played UP.” It is never quite clear what that really means. Neither is it clear what it should mean in the context of playing in the Ruffnecks program or anywhere else. After all, is a freshman in college playing “up” or is he just low man on the totem pole? Likewise for high school players… Are JV players playing “down” if they do not quite fit into the varsity plans, or are JV players playing “up” if they are really freshmen or sophomores? It depends on the school. The notion of playing “up” is unclear at best, irrelevant in most cases, and often tied directly to the competition, not the players someone plays with. So why is it always such a big deal? Mostly, it is a sideline topic of discussion and one-upsmanship for parents in the stands. Consider that Jason Heyward (currently with the Atlanta Braves) did not find it beneath him to play with a 16U summer travel team (when he was 16) even though he was entering his senior year in high school. Neither is it beneath most Ruffnecks players to play on any given roster, especially when age and graduation class may overlap.

The key to development is not playing “up” or “down,” but rather to play and develop in a challenging environment. Our obligation is to design schedules that provide a blend of challenges and opportunities. Our goal is to build confidence tempered by failure; individual growth through the experience of baseball in a team context. It is useless for teams to get their butts kicked on a regular basis; it is equally useless to beat up on weaker teams…. Which is why the argument is based on relativity to the competition.

Players leave our program who have struggled at a given level of play, and still refuse to acknowledge that perhaps, playing at the same level for another year may be beneficial. Conversely, we have had players who recognized that repeating a level is best for their personal development. Most in the latter category have met with greater long-term success. Some programs attract players by promising that they will play “up,” as if a 15 year old playing on a 16U team has a path to quicker or better development. It simply does not correlate. In the Ruffnecks program the schedules for ALL our teams are aggressive. Indeed, we have never won a “National Championship” in any association or event. As such, it stands to reason that there are still competitive challenges to conquer. As we build schedules each year, returning players and parents are understandably excited and want to know if the schedule will be “aggressive” and “challenging.” Our teams play “UP” by definition of the tournaments we enter, the places we travel, and the demands of our program itself. We calibrate the schedule for each team based on the ability, personnel, physical maturity, and experience of each roster. We never “dumb it down” for a Ruffnecks team. In fact, we challenge all our teams with competition that is not age-specific. Consider our 14U level where we have a mix of 8th graders and high school freshmen. In 2012 our 14U Ruffnecks played plenty of challenging 14U competition, but they also played 15U and 16U opponents in tournament play. Indeed at all age levels the Ruffnecks have relationships with like-minded organizations with whom we can schedule younger teams against older teams, and our counterparts can do the same thing with us.

Most qualified scouts and college recruiters often tell young players the same thing: Just go somewhere where you can get an opportunity to play. We are fortunate in the Ruffnecks program to attract players who wish to challenge themselves. The specific roster a player is assigned to is more a matter of “fit” and opportunity, than it is about “up” or “down.” Strong programs play strong competition… period. The Ruffnecks schedules are among the most challenging in the country for programs of its kind. It all comes down to who you play, where you play, how much you play, and the competitive environment in which you play that matters."
quote:
Originally posted by JMartin:
Ha! Good one Who's on First.... you help make my point... those teams listed don't care about who beat who when, and their record against this team or that team.... it's about playing quality opponents and getting exposure for this kids...

So can you call Baylor, UT, TCU and get on their field when it's available... James Ellison, Sam Carpenter, and Dave Acton could - and do.

Just for grins, shoot me your website so I can go see how your 16u fared last summer against Thorton's Frozen Rope team, Vanlandingham's and Hernandez's Tigers team, Cade's top DBAT team, A's top 16u team, Gustafson/Reagan's 16u Cats team,Logan's top 16u team or Sharp's Dallas Mustang team....


I'm not tryin to stir a debate with you, jmartin. just trying to convey that our team ranks right up there with the big dogs...nor should I have to justify anything to you. Our coaches work very hard to get exposure for our kids. But, to answer your question..we beat Sharp, vanlandingham, and Loagan's top and all others in his org. Including the top FR team this past summer. Our web site is in my op, you can look there all you like. We get alot of compliments from parents of opposing teams on the talent we have.
JMartin - Good post on playing up. Hard to argue with that.

On the Storm side, we are comfortable with the development, level of instruction and "looks" our players are receiving. We agree that the organizations that you list are solid and we enjoy working with each of them. We are looking forward to the Summer season. At times, it can be difficult to communicate on these threads so if anyone has any specific questions send me an email @ Ringsdorf@verizon.net and I will explain more about our vision and what we are about.

Mike

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