AABC used to be king of the postseason hill. Is it still top dog? How could you make it better?
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AABC is still top dog at the 18/17 year old level. Why good teams like TeamD and the Austin Slam don’t play AABC is a mystery to me. Last year at the regional I saw just about every Big 12 and SEC coach sitting in the stands watching the D-BAT and Mustang game. I believe teams from the south that don’t play AABC are doing their kids injustices. What else is going on July 15th? You can’t tell me that there is a better event going on in late July then the AABC regional.
I have a theory why some teams don’t play AABC at the 18/17 year old level. Coaches are afraid that the season will end early and they will have no World Series to play in. They would rather buy a spot in a World Series and end the season with a bang. Yes AABC can be a heart breaker and end your season early but that is what makes it so great. Take your lumps and let the kids have the rest of the summer to themselves. If you make it to the regional you have done enough. Your kids will be seen by more coaches then buying your way into a bootleg world series.
I have a theory why some teams don’t play AABC at the 18/17 year old level. Coaches are afraid that the season will end early and they will have no World Series to play in. They would rather buy a spot in a World Series and end the season with a bang. Yes AABC can be a heart breaker and end your season early but that is what makes it so great. Take your lumps and let the kids have the rest of the summer to themselves. If you make it to the regional you have done enough. Your kids will be seen by more coaches then buying your way into a bootleg world series.
quote:Originally posted by Newscout:
AABC is still top dog at the 18/17 year old level. Why good teams like TeamD and the Austin Slam don’t play AABC is a mystery to me. Last year at the regional I saw just about every Big 12 and SEC coach sitting in the stands watching the D-BAT and Mustang game. I believe teams from the south that don’t play AABC are doing their kids injustices. What else is going on July 15th? You can’t tell me that there is a better event going on in late July then the AABC regional.
I have a theory why some teams don’t play AABC at the 18/17 year old level. Coaches are afraid that the season will end early and they will have no World Series to play in. They would rather buy a spot in a World Series and end the season with a bang. Yes AABC can be a heart breaker and end your season early but that is what makes it so great. Take your lumps and let the kids have the rest of the summer to themselves. If you make it to the regional you have done enough. Your kids will be seen by more coaches then buying your way into a bootleg world series.
NewGuy,
I wouldn't want to speak for the head coach of Team DeMarini however, in my humble opinion, hear are a few reasons why Team DeMarini chose not to play in the AABC you reference:
1) the mission this season was to play in venues that scouts were scheduled to attend. Quite a bit nof research was done to understand the mission of each tournament they attended. The venues chosen by DeMarini were those that could provide exposure in multiple locations throughout the US, not just in the great State of TX.
2) every tournament you don't win can be a "heartbreaker". We advance to the TeamOne UnderArmour SemiFinals only to lose to the Chet Lemon Juice, a perinial national powerhouse. What a great experinece to be ahead 1-0 through 5 innings! Unfortunately we lost.
3) After hearing about the AABC shenanigans in AZ that all the TX teams experienced this season (and rumored to have happen in many other seasons), what makes that experience so special. Sounds like good old fashion "politics" to me. We've seen no such antics in the tournaments we have chosen to enter. In addition, when you reference your experience last year, DBAT vs Mustangs, yes there were many scouts. However, if you were to attend some of the other "less glamourous" games, the scouts were scarse. AABC seems to be popular in the S.Central and S.West US but many from other parts of the US don't seem to know or care about AABC.
4) In past years the "teams" that make it to Farmington don't seem to be the same teams/rosters that played together earlier that summer. By the time the teams added 3-5 pitchers, an additional catcher and a few guys that hit bombs, the concept of "team" seems to be tainted. The original team that invested the sweat equity during the early dog days of summer are no longer playing an active roll for the "team". Many of those who started with that team, evaluated the team talent, assumed they would be able to contribute, get left to only watch from the dugout as other strangers wander up at game times, at premier events, to take there spots.
In no way am I saying that the AABC isn't a quality program nor series. They'll have many good stories and memories that also get created. Much like many other tournaments across the country (Perfect Game WWBA, Perfect Game BCS, UnderArmour, TeamOne, Pastime and many others)
These opinions were not meant to be disrespectful of anyone elses decision to attend any/all other events or play for any/all other teams/programs. Team DeMarini simply chose to take a different path for the summer baseball season.
Thanks for the interest in Team DeMarini.
Team D
Over the past 15 years I have taken teams to many major tournaments throughout the country at 18U. While I understand that certain tourneys work better for some than others, IMO there is no better competition at the Connie Mack level than AABC. Period.
The Regional Qualifiers, World Series Qualifiers and the Regional provide the stiffest competition at 18U for teams from this area. Without doubt, there is no better venue in amateur sports than the Connie Mack World Series and getting there is a tough road - participation must be earned. Playing in front of 10,000 fans, major league scouting directors and against the best ballplayers in America is an experience that players will never forget.
The fact that your season could end with a second loss in State or the Regional gives games an edge that simply cannot be found in other events. The showcase tourneys around the country are nice but for what it's worth they are not win-or-else for the kids....most often they are just another tourney. The best teams compete for the brass ring and their kids focus on that goal from the time they set foot into the summer arena. The players that excel there are recognized and usually rewarded for it. I can count on one hand how many players from teams I was associated with garnered collegiate opportunities from being seen at out-of-state tourneys while I have many, many stories of players making a name for themselves and receiving next level opportunities by showing their mettle on the big stage of a State or Regional.
As for pick up players, AABC only allows 20 players on a CM roster and most teams carry 18-20 players for the summer. I believe that the five BBI teams that have made it to Farmington over the past three years (LH Wildcats (twice) , DBAT (twice) & Tigers) picked up a combined total of five or six players. Last year we picked up one player (LHP) for the Regional and that was it. Hardly what I would consider a wholesale roster change. By the way, that one extra arm was needed because he was on the mound (and the bottom of the dogpile) for the final out of the Regional.
On the other hand, non-affiliated and showcase tourneys around the country typically allow for unlimited rosters and mass pickups which does not jibe with the latter part of Team D's argument against playing AABC. It seems to me that a team could opt to stick to it's original roster just as easily in AABC as it could for a PG event.
As for large numbers of scouts at events, it has been mentioned in this forum numerous times that player info is turned in for players from this area by scouts from this area....not the east coast scouts.
Just my $.02.....
The Regional Qualifiers, World Series Qualifiers and the Regional provide the stiffest competition at 18U for teams from this area. Without doubt, there is no better venue in amateur sports than the Connie Mack World Series and getting there is a tough road - participation must be earned. Playing in front of 10,000 fans, major league scouting directors and against the best ballplayers in America is an experience that players will never forget.
The fact that your season could end with a second loss in State or the Regional gives games an edge that simply cannot be found in other events. The showcase tourneys around the country are nice but for what it's worth they are not win-or-else for the kids....most often they are just another tourney. The best teams compete for the brass ring and their kids focus on that goal from the time they set foot into the summer arena. The players that excel there are recognized and usually rewarded for it. I can count on one hand how many players from teams I was associated with garnered collegiate opportunities from being seen at out-of-state tourneys while I have many, many stories of players making a name for themselves and receiving next level opportunities by showing their mettle on the big stage of a State or Regional.
As for pick up players, AABC only allows 20 players on a CM roster and most teams carry 18-20 players for the summer. I believe that the five BBI teams that have made it to Farmington over the past three years (LH Wildcats (twice) , DBAT (twice) & Tigers) picked up a combined total of five or six players. Last year we picked up one player (LHP) for the Regional and that was it. Hardly what I would consider a wholesale roster change. By the way, that one extra arm was needed because he was on the mound (and the bottom of the dogpile) for the final out of the Regional.
On the other hand, non-affiliated and showcase tourneys around the country typically allow for unlimited rosters and mass pickups which does not jibe with the latter part of Team D's argument against playing AABC. It seems to me that a team could opt to stick to it's original roster just as easily in AABC as it could for a PG event.
As for large numbers of scouts at events, it has been mentioned in this forum numerous times that player info is turned in for players from this area by scouts from this area....not the east coast scouts.
Just my $.02.....
One only has to experience Farmington to know that AABC Connie Mack is still king. Nothing else is even close for summer ball teams.
quote:Originally posted by RETIRED GM:
Over the past 15 years I have taken teams to many major tournaments throughout the country at 18U. While I understand that certain tourneys work better for some than others, IMO there is no better competition at the Connie Mack level than AABC. Period.
The Regional Qualifiers, World Series Qualifiers and the Regional provide the stiffest competition at 18U for teams from this area. Without doubt, there is no better venue in amateur sports than the Connie Mack World Series and getting there is a tough road - participation must be earned. Playing in front of 10,000 fans, major league scouting directors and against the best ballplayers in America is an experience that players will never forget.
The fact that your season could end with a second loss in State or the Regional gives games an edge that simply cannot be found in other events. The showcase tourneys around the country are nice but for what it's worth they are not win-or-else for the kids....most often they are just another tourney. The best teams compete for the brass ring and their kids focus on that goal from the time they set foot into the summer arena. The players that excel there are recognized and usually rewarded for it. I can count on one hand how many players from teams I was associated with garnered collegiate opportunities from being seen at out-of-state tourneys while I have many, many stories of players making a name for themselves and receiving next level opportunities by showing their mettle on the big stage of a State or Regional.
As for pick up players, AABC only allows 20 players on a CM roster and most teams carry 18-20 players for the summer. I believe that the five BBI teams that have made it to Farmington over the past three years (LH Wildcats (twice) , DBAT (twice) & Tigers) picked up a combined total of five or six players. Last year we picked up one player (LHP) for the Regional and that was it. Hardly what I would consider a wholesale roster change. By the way, that one extra arm was needed because he was on the mound (and the bottom of the dogpile) for the final out of the Regional.
On the other hand, non-affiliated and showcase tourneys around the country typically allow for unlimited rosters and mass pickups which does not jibe with the latter part of Team D's argument against playing AABC. It seems to me that a team could opt to stick to it's original roster just as easily in AABC as it could for a PG event.
As for large numbers of scouts at events, it has been mentioned in this forum numerous times that player info is turned in for players from this area by scouts from this area....not the east coast scouts.
Just my $.02.....
Thanks for the comments.
We all try to learn from the vast experience of those before us. Perhaps others from outside this region would have other experiences and have similar convictions.
As far as you comments about scouts goes, that restriction is only on MLB teams, not colleges.
As far as the pickup players goes, Team DeMarini has been dedicated (as many other teams are)to it's players while many who chase the AABC format were not. Does picking up players late in the season that then run off those who started with the team count? We've seen it happen and it continues to happen every year. It can happen on any team but when you put coaches/programs in a situation of win-at-all-cost situations, they will, and do, make late season changes to replace that original team player with some new/strange face late in the season (pitchers, hitters, etc). Just a different definition of team makeup.
It also does not, nor will not, suprise me that those that frequent this forum (including the DBAT contingent) will vehemently support the AABC format. All I was trying to say is that there are many other formats to address competitive baseball.
Every tournament, and season, must come to an end at some time. Knowone likes it when that happens.
On to another task....just my two cents.....
quote:Originally posted by TeamD:
Perhaps others from outside this region would have other experiences and have similar convictions.
The very best 17/18 teams from every baseball hotbed in the country play for Farmington. I have never understood why some teams from those same areas do not. IMO it is a shame that players on those teams do not at least get to experience trying to get to the AABC CMWS much less getting there.
In light of this thread's topic, I am curious of something from you posters.
For 18U summer ball teams, what are the non-AABC tournaments where you will see a team enthusiastically dogpiling after winning the championship game?
quote:For 18U summer ball teams, what are the non-AABC tournaments where you will see a team enthusiastically dogpiling after winning the championship game?
Here is one from this past Monday. (Florida Bombers WWBA 18U Championship)
Sorry PG staff, I have a lot of respect for what you and your staff do for youth baseball and all of your events are very well run but none (National Showcase, World Wood Bat, Aflac, etc.) are even close to Farmington. Couldn't even light the flame, dog piles or not.
JMO
JMO
I do believe that the Connie Mack World Series in Farmington NM is as good as an amateur tournament can get for 8 teams. Big crowds, usually about 5 or 6 good teams out of the 8 and a big parade. The tournament is dominated by a few teams. Some really don't even have to work hard to get there each year. I do understand that this is not true in Texas, where it is very difficult to get to the Connie Mack World Series.
Please do not compare it to the Nationally Televised Aflac Game that will be played on National Television in Dodger Stadium and endorsed by MLB.
Also, we are not talking about the same thing. Farmington will have graduated high school players and Aflac is next years class and only 38 players.
From a scouting perspective there are several events that far outdraw more than the CMWS. From a talent perspective there are several events with more talent.
All that said, I would think every team should want to play in the Connie Mack World Series. It is an unbelievable event that kids would never forget.
Please do not compare it to the Nationally Televised Aflac Game that will be played on National Television in Dodger Stadium and endorsed by MLB.
Also, we are not talking about the same thing. Farmington will have graduated high school players and Aflac is next years class and only 38 players.
From a scouting perspective there are several events that far outdraw more than the CMWS. From a talent perspective there are several events with more talent.
All that said, I would think every team should want to play in the Connie Mack World Series. It is an unbelievable event that kids would never forget.
As PGStaff indicates, the comparison is apples to oranges. The CMWS is more of a team event. AFLAC and some of the others showcase outstanding individual talent -- it's an all-star game of prospects. The ultimate "team" experience for 18U takes place in Farmington. With that said, I imagine it still feels pretty darn good to win the other World Series events.....you go there to win, eh?
I love the PG events. Jerry and gang do a great job promoting and staging their individual showcases and team showcase tournaments. Our teams have used PG tournaments events for exposure purposes on a national level since we have been fortunate enough to have players that drew national attention.
However, I personally see a big difference between such showcase tournaments and a league-based association such as AABC that has one winner at the State, Regional and World Series levels. The comparisons are simply not apples-to-apples.
Jerry gave us one example of a team feeling enough sense of accomplishment at 18U to dogpile.
Does anyone have another?
However, I personally see a big difference between such showcase tournaments and a league-based association such as AABC that has one winner at the State, Regional and World Series levels. The comparisons are simply not apples-to-apples.
Jerry gave us one example of a team feeling enough sense of accomplishment at 18U to dogpile.
Does anyone have another?
Team D... no disrespect for you team but I noticed that you picked up several players when we played you in Fort Meyers, FL this past fall. A lot of teams pick up extra pitchers when going to tournaments where you possibly will play more games and run out of pitching.
I have not experienced the part where the team picks up extra position players and it takes playing time away from the ones that got you there. I'm sure it happens more than it should.
I have not experienced the part where the team picks up extra position players and it takes playing time away from the ones that got you there. I'm sure it happens more than it should.
PGStaff,
I agree with you about my comparison of Farmington to AFLAC and your other individual national showcase events. These shouldn't be compared in an apples to apples scenario as one is really team oriented while the others are individual oriented with the games being played in a somewhat teamlike environment.
Like I said I have great respect for what you do for youth baseball and think your events are some of the best run in the country.
What I should have said was I don't think there are any other TEAM oriented tournaments in the country better than Farmington for TEAMS to play in, dogpiles or not IMO.
I agree with you about my comparison of Farmington to AFLAC and your other individual national showcase events. These shouldn't be compared in an apples to apples scenario as one is really team oriented while the others are individual oriented with the games being played in a somewhat teamlike environment.
Like I said I have great respect for what you do for youth baseball and think your events are some of the best run in the country.
What I should have said was I don't think there are any other TEAM oriented tournaments in the country better than Farmington for TEAMS to play in, dogpiles or not IMO.
Great points by both sides. You've all touched on the individual vs. team aspect. With Aflac you recruit from all over the US, and with AABC the teams are more area/regionally based. In fact, where would you say (or would you say) politics are more involved? Individual selections (Aflac) or teams (AABC)?
The AFLAC selection committee doesn't make too many mistakes. Some great players are omitted but the ones chosen can play!
Collikar - there are politics in everything.
Collikar - there are politics in everything.
Around our neck of the woods, no one has ever even heard of AABC. There is no structure here, no effort to build a network, nothing.
Farmington may be a big event for those who participate and the town obviously supports it, but don't think that it's a "national championship". It isn't. Too much of the country has no AABC baseball at all.
Farmington may be a big event for those who participate and the town obviously supports it, but don't think that it's a "national championship". It isn't. Too much of the country has no AABC baseball at all.
Mr. Virginia,
Have you ever heard of the Midland Redskins, Arizona Firebirds, Dallas Mustangs, East Cobb Yankees, DBAT, or the Florida Legends? They play in Farmington year after year. If you don’t think these guys are playing for a National Championship I would like to see your list of teams that play in your real National Championship.
Have you ever heard of the Midland Redskins, Arizona Firebirds, Dallas Mustangs, East Cobb Yankees, DBAT, or the Florida Legends? They play in Farmington year after year. If you don’t think these guys are playing for a National Championship I would like to see your list of teams that play in your real National Championship.
Midlo,
AABC has a region covering your state.
What keeps teams from participating in these qualifiers and regions?
It appears that the Midland Redskins are also a part of this region so getting past them would be quite difficult but why not give it a try?
There are also at present two open qualifiers that I would think you could enter.
Is it because of no Virginia leauge affiliation with AABC? If that's the case i would think that something could be done to fix that situation.
Not putting down Virginia baseball as I have seen several good teams and players from your area. I'm just courious.
AABC has a region covering your state.
What keeps teams from participating in these qualifiers and regions?
It appears that the Midland Redskins are also a part of this region so getting past them would be quite difficult but why not give it a try?
There are also at present two open qualifiers that I would think you could enter.
Is it because of no Virginia leauge affiliation with AABC? If that's the case i would think that something could be done to fix that situation.
Not putting down Virginia baseball as I have seen several good teams and players from your area. I'm just courious.
quote:Originally posted by Maverick0714:
Team D... no disrespect for you team but I noticed that you picked up several players when we played you in Fort Meyers, FL this past fall. A lot of teams pick up extra pitchers when going to tournaments where you possibly will play more games and run out of pitching.
I have not experienced the part where the team picks up extra position players and it takes playing time away from the ones that got you there. I'm sure it happens more than it should.
Be careful in the accusations about Team D picking up players to go to Ft Myers. Team D wasn't even formed until Sept and played in very few tournaments before going to Ft Myers. How would you know who was on the roster? Where did you "notice" this?
As a matter of fact, we only took 13 players to Ft Myers (nieve or stupid - could be argued either way I suppose!!) and we did run out of pitching when we reached the Marshalls in the Semi-Final game. Unfortunately it was 2 games to soon and that's why we were determined this summer to have the pitching needed to not have to pick up a pitcher.
That being said, every team I know would like to have more pitching, including us. There will always be a tournament where teams will pick up a pitcher and I'm sure we'll do the same. Injuries, attrition, length of tournament, etc should and do play into these decisions but my whole point was to "come with what you started with" and don't slight others (pitchers, lesser hitters and position players) by bringing in additional players that have no loyalty nor skin in the game.
Just to be clear…
I agree with those who think the Connie Mack World Series in Farmington is the greatest tournament in amateur baseball. I’ve been there and it is amazing, especially the crowds.
Like everything else it could be improved. Some of the qualifying tournaments especially.
The CMWS is the only event that Aflac All Americans are allowed to go to during Aflac Week.
FWIW, There is absolutely NO politics involved in the Aflac selections. We know because we have selected each and every one of them since the very first game. We try hard to pick the guys we feel are the best prospects. The first five years saw 52 Aflac All Americans drafted in the first round. There are only 38 Aflac All Americans each year and they must fill all the positions, 19 from the East, 19 from the West. And NO they do not have to attend PG events to be selected. We do need to know who the player is though.
There’s probably been some mistakes, but over 1 in 4 have become first round picks! Several others were drafted later but signed for first round type money… Dellin Bantances, Nick Adenhart, Austin Jackson, Dexter Fowler, etc.
I agree with those who think the Connie Mack World Series in Farmington is the greatest tournament in amateur baseball. I’ve been there and it is amazing, especially the crowds.
Like everything else it could be improved. Some of the qualifying tournaments especially.
The CMWS is the only event that Aflac All Americans are allowed to go to during Aflac Week.
FWIW, There is absolutely NO politics involved in the Aflac selections. We know because we have selected each and every one of them since the very first game. We try hard to pick the guys we feel are the best prospects. The first five years saw 52 Aflac All Americans drafted in the first round. There are only 38 Aflac All Americans each year and they must fill all the positions, 19 from the East, 19 from the West. And NO they do not have to attend PG events to be selected. We do need to know who the player is though.
There’s probably been some mistakes, but over 1 in 4 have become first round picks! Several others were drafted later but signed for first round type money… Dellin Bantances, Nick Adenhart, Austin Jackson, Dexter Fowler, etc.
I just want to know if that duck is going to be at all the Aflac events. If he's not I'm not going.
quote:
The CMWS is the only event that Aflac All Americans are allowed to go to during Aflac Week.
First off Jerry, let's start by saying I respect PG and most of what they do for young amatuer players.
Second, can we agree that the CMWS is a "team" event vs. AFLAC an individual event?
Your above quote is something I've never understood about the amatuer game.
As a coach with DBAT in the past, when I mentioned "this" or "that" is the only event we would allow our players to attend that conflicted with the team schedule..........
Folks went crazy and acted like the notion was a sin from the devil himself.
For the most part, most organizations allow a free for all during "team" seasons. Fearing that if a talented player is told they will not chose one event over the teams, they will eventually lose the player.
Who cares.
Why have a team? Just have a schedule in which you invite players to attend on any given day.
I wish all teams would take Jerry's approach and specifically list what is expected of a player in regards to conflicting events.
As for the CMWS events vs. others........
It's not even close.
This **** about playing for scouts, being seen by more scouts, blah blah blah is the biggest bunch of **** that gets told over and over.
If the 05' DBAT team could have been their own showcase each weekend. It didn't matter if we went to East Cobb or Ft. Worth. Bottom line, good players will be found if they are good.
One of the few things an AFLAC event does is possibly increase draft status for a player. Meaning a marginal late first round pick can move into the top 10. But folks forget that visa versa can happen as well.
So playing in Dodger Stadium in front of every cross checker in America should overpower a kid missing the Whistlin' Dixie district playoffs that he and his team worked for all year?
Regardless, the example gains validity in the means of finacial interest.
Hence the reason we have 17 year old amatuers and their "advisors" demanding 8 figure signing bonuses.
Then, as fans we turn around and say MLB players are way over paid.
What? And the dog chases it's tail round, and round, and round.
I just don't get it. Individual self promoting issues are more important that team issues?
Any organition that bases their schedule putting more importance on player promotion vs. team promotion is chasing a pipe dream.
Put your stock in reality. The reality is the best amatuer teams across the country will send very few D1 prospects into the ranks compared to the percentages. And the numbers greatly decrease when we talk about professional baseball.
Reality is 99% percent of these players will be forced to provide for their family by working in a team environment. These environments include less talented people, more talented people, and people with no talent at all. But we eventually have to deal with it all to deposit that pay check on Friday.
Or, we can teach our youth it's more important to promote themselves to assure that less than 1% chance baseball will provide any substantial income for their future.
The CMWS is everything that is right about amatuer baseball.
It's one of the last pure sporting events.
Any organization or competing venue debating this is only using that mask to disguise what is wrong with the game.
I can't really argue with that logic. When mentioning the Aflac Game and the CMWS, I should have added that we don't make those decisions. We just pick the players and only make recommendations about other stuff. It just so happens that the CMWS is the only big team event that happens during the Aflac Game or Area Codes.
That said, things like the Aflac Game are more about honoring players that have outstanding talent. I don't think it is about money at all. The players have all expenses covered (flights, lodging, meals, etc.) All the proceeds from the game go to Childrens Hospitals for Pediatric Cancer care. We actually donate our time, resources and money to the game and especially the cause.
I have always believed that players should be with their team before attending individual events. However, there are many teams who also care a lot about their players and want them to attend certain individual events when the timing is right. It's kind of a two way street in that way. You are working with the team and the team is working with you. When the team event is very important, you should always be with the team.
Most people who count lose respect for a player who will leave his team at the most important time. That includes the scouting community! JMO!
However, we have seen teams who will never allow their players to do anything else even if there is no real team conflict. Fortunately, that does not include most of the best teams in the country.
That said, things like the Aflac Game are more about honoring players that have outstanding talent. I don't think it is about money at all. The players have all expenses covered (flights, lodging, meals, etc.) All the proceeds from the game go to Childrens Hospitals for Pediatric Cancer care. We actually donate our time, resources and money to the game and especially the cause.
I have always believed that players should be with their team before attending individual events. However, there are many teams who also care a lot about their players and want them to attend certain individual events when the timing is right. It's kind of a two way street in that way. You are working with the team and the team is working with you. When the team event is very important, you should always be with the team.
Most people who count lose respect for a player who will leave his team at the most important time. That includes the scouting community! JMO!
However, we have seen teams who will never allow their players to do anything else even if there is no real team conflict. Fortunately, that does not include most of the best teams in the country.
For the record,
Jerry was the only official of any venue that called me long before any invitation was extended to our players to discuss matters.
I will always remember that which adds to the respect I have for PG and their staff.
Jerry was the only official of any venue that called me long before any invitation was extended to our players to discuss matters.
I will always remember that which adds to the respect I have for PG and their staff.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
When the team event is very important, you should always be with the team.
How would you define such?
Ken: you have beaten this horse way beyond death for the past three years. Give it a rest, we all know how you feel. It is giving us all tired head.
quote:Originally posted by Natural:
Ken: you have beaten this horse way beyond death for the past three years. Give it a rest, we all know how you feel. It is giving us all tired head.
Tired head? You don't know tired head.
Tired head is getting 15 phone calls per hour from coaches and scouts wanting to know when XYZ is pitching. Then that same pitcher wants to know if he can go to the Strawberry Festival All Star game because they give out free wrist bands and do a write up in the local gazette.
quote:quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
When the team event is very important, you should always be with the team.
How would you define such?
Ken,
I (we) don't define what an important team event would be. The team and the player defines that. Only know that never would I personally hold it against a player who was totally committed to his team. In fact, even if it were a player we were really interested in seeing, I would respect yhe player for making that decision.
It's always the goal to get the best players to our individual events. We try but can't get them all and that doesn't bother me very much.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:quote:quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
When the team event is very important, you should always be with the team.
How would you define such?
Ken,
I (we) don't define what an important team event would be. The team and the player defines that. Only know that never would I personally hold it against a player who was totally committed to his team. In fact, even if it were a player we were really interested in seeing, I would respect yhe player for making that decision.
It's always the goal to get the best players to our individual events. We try but can't get them all and that doesn't bother me very much.
I can certainly appreciate your stance, but I'm not going to let you off that easy.
You see, if you don't define what is important you make it extremely difficult for coaches across the country to maintain reasonable expectations.
Obviously there is something you deem as "very important" since you mention the CMWS is the only event you let your AFLAC invitees attend.
You say the team and player defines important.
Jerry, your expecting a 17 year talented baseball player to stand on his own with all the talking heads to define importance?
You say you would respect the player for being committed to his team.
Well then, why not "expect" a player to be committed to his team?
Certainly by doing so you would provide greater avenues for gaining that respect from you and others with importance.
It's easy to sit back and say we are just providing an arena for talented players to be recognized by those that matter....
But you put coaches in an extremely difficult situation by doing such.
It will never be perfect we know, but keeping the important issues of amatuer baseball in mind, things can work.
On a the same line, I have noticed that Area Code, Aflac and CMWS all have conflicting dates. Yet there are many of the same players on each roster. How will this work out in the end? Can the players do more that one? Is that fair to the players that could totally commit to one? Just asking.
Simple solution, Area Code, AFLAC and CMWS get together and schedule different dates, then you are not asking a player to choose between his team or an individual event.
Answering questions a page or so back:
I'm not dissing the Farmington event. I'm just saying, there are vast expanses of America that have no idea this event, or AABC, even exist.
As for why no one from VA has fielded a team, I would say it's because no one here knows about it, beyond the few who may have read about it on this board. Perhaps someone from AABC might want to look into letting folks around the country know more about their organization. It would be great to have one truly national championship from coast to coast.
But the question in this thread was, "is AABC still top dog?" In many parts of the country, it is not now and never has been.
I'm not dissing the Farmington event. I'm just saying, there are vast expanses of America that have no idea this event, or AABC, even exist.
As for why no one from VA has fielded a team, I would say it's because no one here knows about it, beyond the few who may have read about it on this board. Perhaps someone from AABC might want to look into letting folks around the country know more about their organization. It would be great to have one truly national championship from coast to coast.
But the question in this thread was, "is AABC still top dog?" In many parts of the country, it is not now and never has been.
Ken,
There absolutely is value in individuals participating in the showcase events for which you cast strong aspersions. In fact, had JF not excused my son from a weekend tourney with the Knights in 2003 to attend the Stanford camp, then my son would very likely not have been recruited to attend Dartmouth College. My son was recruited because he was seen by the Dartmouth head coach at Stanford. Dartmouth was not at the Corsicana tourney, or the Brenham tourney.
While playing at Dartmouth (and w/ Knights & Mustangs, & Marcus HS) he learned to work with less talented people, more talented people, and people with no talent at all. Those same teamwork traits are now practiced at his place of employment. His Dartmouth degree has already afforded him opportunities in his working life that might not have been as easily available had he followed the TX JUCO route to a 4 yr school, or maybe a low level D1 baseball school in TX (I'm not kidding myself, Dartmouth is a low level D1 baseball team).
Basically, your argument falls on somewhat deaf ears because there are so many other success stories like my son's. Your position is extreme - once committed to the team no other outlet for showcasing is permissible. This is limiting and potentially harmful to the player who could succeed in college. Unless a coach/scout sees your team or unless YOU (as head coach) knows somebody that could use a player - then the team rule is limiting his exposure to college baseball coaches.
Many of us have also experienced the baseball teammate vagabond who joins a team yet chases every high profile showcase event - missing many team events. This person damages the team, and may be damaging his baseball reputation as noted by Jerry above.
There is room in a baseball player's schedule for both team commitment and individual showcasing. It takes a little communication and cooperation.
There absolutely is value in individuals participating in the showcase events for which you cast strong aspersions. In fact, had JF not excused my son from a weekend tourney with the Knights in 2003 to attend the Stanford camp, then my son would very likely not have been recruited to attend Dartmouth College. My son was recruited because he was seen by the Dartmouth head coach at Stanford. Dartmouth was not at the Corsicana tourney, or the Brenham tourney.
While playing at Dartmouth (and w/ Knights & Mustangs, & Marcus HS) he learned to work with less talented people, more talented people, and people with no talent at all. Those same teamwork traits are now practiced at his place of employment. His Dartmouth degree has already afforded him opportunities in his working life that might not have been as easily available had he followed the TX JUCO route to a 4 yr school, or maybe a low level D1 baseball school in TX (I'm not kidding myself, Dartmouth is a low level D1 baseball team).
Basically, your argument falls on somewhat deaf ears because there are so many other success stories like my son's. Your position is extreme - once committed to the team no other outlet for showcasing is permissible. This is limiting and potentially harmful to the player who could succeed in college. Unless a coach/scout sees your team or unless YOU (as head coach) knows somebody that could use a player - then the team rule is limiting his exposure to college baseball coaches.
Many of us have also experienced the baseball teammate vagabond who joins a team yet chases every high profile showcase event - missing many team events. This person damages the team, and may be damaging his baseball reputation as noted by Jerry above.
There is room in a baseball player's schedule for both team commitment and individual showcasing. It takes a little communication and cooperation.
quote:Originally posted by dbg_fan:
Ken,
There absolutely is value in individuals participating in the showcase events for which you cast strong aspersions.
Just to be clear, I don't think I stated strict arguement agaisnt this.
quote:Basically, your argument falls on somewhat deaf ears because there are so many other success stories like my son's.
And that's fine. I can appreciate your opinions although my experience has led me to believe my opinions are much more of the norm. There are several examples on anything in life, but I simply imply the norm.
quote:Your position is extreme - once committed to the team no other outlet for showcasing is permissible.
Again, if you can find a post where I suggest this I'd love to see it.
quote:There is room in a baseball player's schedule for both team commitment and individual showcasing. It takes a little communication and cooperation.
Well said, although I've experienced these attempts time and time again not only with teams I've coached but countless others. Coaches talk and the same story is told by most.
Like one said, I do beat this dead horse quit a bit, but it's something I'm passionate about.
Will my discussions change anything, probably not but this is a message board and hopefully discussion is welcome.
In my opinion, you two are talking about apples and oranges.
Dbg_fan is talking about true showcases, where a player pays to showcase his abilities in front of college coaches in hopes of catching their eye and winning an offer to attend their school.
Ken's bad experience (which drives every post he makes), is about what I would call "showoff events" like AFLAC and Area Code. The players who are invited to attend these events are already well known to all the scouts, have usually already committed to a college, and are seeking recognition from pro scouts --- way before the draft even makes it necessary. Players who ditch their team in order to attend these type of events do deserve to be called out because they do not need this type of exposure. They are already high profile and well known.
On the other hand, showcase events or camps like Stanford or Headfirst or most Perfect Game events are simply opportunities for players to perform in front of coaches in hopes it results in an offer.
And as is it did for dbg_fan's son and mine as well... sometimes it does and there is nothing wrong with that.
Dbg_fan is talking about true showcases, where a player pays to showcase his abilities in front of college coaches in hopes of catching their eye and winning an offer to attend their school.
Ken's bad experience (which drives every post he makes), is about what I would call "showoff events" like AFLAC and Area Code. The players who are invited to attend these events are already well known to all the scouts, have usually already committed to a college, and are seeking recognition from pro scouts --- way before the draft even makes it necessary. Players who ditch their team in order to attend these type of events do deserve to be called out because they do not need this type of exposure. They are already high profile and well known.
On the other hand, showcase events or camps like Stanford or Headfirst or most Perfect Game events are simply opportunities for players to perform in front of coaches in hopes it results in an offer.
And as is it did for dbg_fan's son and mine as well... sometimes it does and there is nothing wrong with that.
quote:Originally posted by Natural:
Ken's bad experience (which drives every post he makes),
It's obvious you have issues with my posts on any experience I have had which is really irrelevant to me.
But to mention my experience as being "bad" is simply not factual and a shot in the dark to say the least.
My coaching experience as a whole was nothing short of wonderful experience.
In fact, just today I recieved a phone call from a former player discussing his situations in the Cape Cod league.
Last week ran into a limited recruited player and we embraced with a hug.
During the only baseball game I attended this year, I ran into a former player in which we had not talked in years. Since, we have talked several times each week as his career progresses.
I will drive whatever I deem as important in any post I choose. You have the ability to ignore them or challenge them as you choose.
Again, there are many ways to skin a cat.
What works for one may not for another.
But you will never, and I say never, get me to understand how an individual event takes on more importance than a team event if you have committed to a team.
MLB is having and individual event tonight and tomorrow. To my knowledge there are no games on the schedule that conflict. Coincidence?
Ken,
Your statement comparing individual events on an amateur level vs MLB is about as ignorant as the author.
First of all the MLB teams are employers of the players. They sign a contract and are paid to play or work, however you want to view it. Amateurs typically pay to play for their teams and the kids you are talking about attending these type of events are highly sought out by their teams as well as these type of showcase events. By playing for their respective teams, many in fact help other kids (maybe not so well known) get seen by respective scouts, coaches, recruiters, etc. that may have not been seen otherwise.
If TEAM is really of the utmost importance in MLB or any professional sport for that matter, why have this type of all-star event at all? What if a player participating is injured? Does this not hurt his team? Whether his team has an event scheduled on that particular night is irrelevant to the remaining 80 games he could hurt his team by being injured at this particular event.
Why not just have an allstar selection after the season, kind of like an all tournament team after a tournament. Surely this type of recognition would be good enough for the mighty MLB players.
Mark Cuban doesn't want his players to participate in the Olympics. Is he right or should they be allowed to play?
My point is this; I agree with you that in a perfect world the team should always come first. I think Farmington is the greatest experience that any 18 year old baseball player could attend. I think that they should pick Farmington first over any other event taking place at the same time.
It is not however a perfect world and if we expect amateurs to always put their team first I think we should be able to expect the same from the paid professionals.
Your statement comparing individual events on an amateur level vs MLB is about as ignorant as the author.
First of all the MLB teams are employers of the players. They sign a contract and are paid to play or work, however you want to view it. Amateurs typically pay to play for their teams and the kids you are talking about attending these type of events are highly sought out by their teams as well as these type of showcase events. By playing for their respective teams, many in fact help other kids (maybe not so well known) get seen by respective scouts, coaches, recruiters, etc. that may have not been seen otherwise.
If TEAM is really of the utmost importance in MLB or any professional sport for that matter, why have this type of all-star event at all? What if a player participating is injured? Does this not hurt his team? Whether his team has an event scheduled on that particular night is irrelevant to the remaining 80 games he could hurt his team by being injured at this particular event.
Why not just have an allstar selection after the season, kind of like an all tournament team after a tournament. Surely this type of recognition would be good enough for the mighty MLB players.
Mark Cuban doesn't want his players to participate in the Olympics. Is he right or should they be allowed to play?
My point is this; I agree with you that in a perfect world the team should always come first. I think Farmington is the greatest experience that any 18 year old baseball player could attend. I think that they should pick Farmington first over any other event taking place at the same time.
It is not however a perfect world and if we expect amateurs to always put their team first I think we should be able to expect the same from the paid professionals.
quote:Originally posted by iluvgoodbaseball:
Ken,
Your statement comparing individual events on an amateur level vs MLB is about as ignorant as the author.
Since you post with a disguise, that to has no validity with me.
And if you truely believe I would compare MLB to amatuer baseball than the ignorance should be cast another direction.
It was simply a minor detail portraying that a team event will never be overshadowed by an individual event to those that truely understand.
quote:Mark Cuban doesn't want his players to participate in the Olympics. Is he right or should they be allowed to play?
Since Mark Cuban invests a tremendous amount of money into demanding players, it seems he is trying to protect his assets much like any other business man in corporate America today. Professionals playing in the Olympics is another topic for another day.
quote:My point is this; I agree with you that in a perfect world the team should always come first. I think Farmington is the greatest experience that any 18 year old baseball player could attend. I think that they should pick Farmington first over any other event taking place at the same time.
If a player is lucky enough to have an opportunity to attend the CMWS certainly he should take advantage of it. But again, whether it's the Sandlot Super Series or the World Series, there is no difference to me. A player should continue the quest any team strives for once he is considered a member of that team.
quote:It is not however a perfect world and if we expect amateurs to always put their team first I think we should be able to expect the same from the paid professionals.
I don't see why not.
In fact, Major League venues (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL) all have put rules in place such as tampering, negotition restrictions, and signing periods to protect such.
Iluvgoodbaseball too........
In the pure form that is.
