1st and 3rd Defense?

No one wanted to bite on this one either.

Here is what I teach.

You have to send the pitcher on the foul side of first or third, depending which side of the field the fly ball is. He stands a about a foot away from bag in foul territory. Must let Pos Players know that in this situation they must give the ball up immediately to the pitcher.

Same situation w/ ball popped up behind the plate we send someone to the middle of the field and tell catcher to immediately give up the ball to the middle of the field.

You run the risk of being embarrassed if you do not send someone to the middle of the field (by sending Pitcher to foul side of first or third on ball down respective line). Well coached offense will burn you if you send the pitcher behind the plate on the fly ball down either line and on the one behind the plate send a middle infielder to middle of field.

Pitcher only goes there in this situation if all three guys leave to catch ball. (meaning if it's on the right side the 1st baseman, 2nd baseman AND Right fielder all leave to catch ball). ......same on left side......

What do you think?

On right side 2nd covers 1st RF and 1stB go for the ball ,pitcher covers HP behind catcher.

On left side SS covers 3rd if 3rd leaves bag of goes after ball if he dosen't (depends on SS positioning) Pitcher covers HP behind catcher.

I assume you had runners on 1st and second. It wasn't clear.

When you say left or right side, I think you're talking shallow. If the 1b or 3b don't have a chance, then I expect him to turn and be the cutoff guy to the plate. Thats his job. If the 3b does turn and go into shallow left for the ball, I would be calling my 1b to come mid-infield to take the cut. Pitcher is backing up a base somewhere, usually 3rd or home. I would also hope the outfielder is hustling in to call off the infielders, since he has a better throwing angle, but we don't always get what we want.

This is one of the only plays I can think of where the pitcher actually becomes the "cut off" man.

Except he doesn't really line up the throw, he just gets into a good position to recieve the throw from the left or right side.

LOW337, Don't think I've seen your play, but it does make sense for the pitcher to be around the bag. Why is foul ground important, especially at 3B?

If its a shallow fly ball to right that could be caught by 1st or fielder the 2nd B to 1st and pitcher covers catcher because play is at home with a guy on 3rd who tags up. SS moves to 2b.
Similar shift if ball goes to short left.
The info is confusing.

Bobble,

In most cases the shallow pop up down the right field line is the 2nd baseman's play. When these things happen all three 1B, 2B and RF go for the ball.

Correct, remember it is ball that all three (1B, 2B and RF)(or 3B, SS, LF) go after ball.
If you do not send the Pitcher in foul ground next to respective bag and you send the Pitcher to back up the plate tnen both runners tag and run. Now you have forced the defense to make a decision. WHERE to throw the ball. If the throw is home then the runner at third stops and returns and the runner from 1st basically walks to second. and vice versa. Remember it is a ball that is shallow enough that all three guys go for on the respective side. Important for runner to be in foul territory esp at first so there is no conflict w/ ball and returning runner. at third not as important. make is same so as not to confuse kids.

Hope this makes sense. It is easy to capitolize on defense mistakes while on offense if this occurs.

You would be surprised at how many runs you can score on 1st and 3rd when ball is popped.

Try it in situations in practice. Have both guys tag and run on anything and force defense to make a decision. Do this early enough in spring practice before you work on situations defensivly. Don't forget to send middle infielder to middle of field on ball popped up behind the plate w/ 1st & 3rd.

When infielders, especially 1st and 3rd basemen become efficient enough to turn and chase a pop directly overhead, you have a point. Most, and I said most, corner inf. are not very good at going directly overhead. So the SS or 2b and the corner outfielders will have the better angle on these pops. I would still like my corner inf's to be in position to cut and the P backing up the proper base. Now if the corners are good enough to go back and make that play, then I agree that the pitcher will have to wander the middle of the diamond and be ready to cut.

Wheather you have corner guys "efficient" enough to go get balls is hardly the point. Am I to assume that just because they are not "efficient" or good enough to go get fly ball behind them that they will never leave to try and catch one in the given situation.

I also brought it up to provoke thought on how to handle it if the situation came up and your team was hitting. Prepare yourself, your staff and players how to react when the ball goes up and no one is in the middle of the field so to speak.

Cut off men, as I am sure you are well aware of are there mostly to keep runners from advancing. And so it is important to have the pitcher go to the spot we spoke of in my initial proposed situation to be a so called cut off man.

Remember the basic question was where to send the pitcher if ALL three guys on their respective sides of the field left their positions. If the first or third baseman doesn't leave it's irrelevent.

At the levels I have experienced, not many runners can go on the arms of the fielders catching the ball. That being said, I was directing my comments on the fact that a lot of young corner players, up to high school, are not very good at going back straight overhead. We have had several players capable at the higher levels able to go back and get it, but these players also have the ability to throw 120 feet to keep the runner from advancing. Offensively, I agree, I would look for any flaw or advantage we could pick up.

If you read my last 2 sentences, you will see that I gave you an agreement on moving the pitcher to the middle of the infield, which is what I believe you were looking for. But I haven't seen that at upper levels, as the runners would likely be put out and would get hung by the coach for attempting to run on a 120 ft pop-up.

Offensively, we would practice all potential plays, including this one.

On the pop up down the line, our runner at 1B would tag as soon as he realized the ball should be caught. our runner at 3B would make a hard break to the plate to draw the throw. If the throw came through without the pitcher in the middle, our runner at 1B took 2B (very easily). End up with runners at 2B and 3B. With a bad throw we would score and advance.

similar scenario is strike 3 passball/wildpitch with a runner on 3rd. having your shortstop or 2b come to the mound to keep out of a created 1st and 3rd.
the popup down the line is another of these 1st and 3rd situations where you better have a cutoff in the middle of the field like talked about above. any good team your corner man and middle infielder is going after the ball. any good offensive team is going to try to take advantage of this. you better have a cutoff man. we do work on this in our 1st and 3rd defensive and offensive work in practice. you make a long throw and somebodies running.

quote:

Posted February 09, 2006 12:13 PM
Offensively, we would practice all potential plays, including this one.

On the pop up down the line, our runner at 1B would tag as soon as he realized the ball should be caught. our runner at 3B would make a hard break to the plate to draw the throw. If the throw came through without the pitcher in the middle, our runner at 1B took 2B (very easily). End up with runners at 2B and 3B. With a bad throw we would score and advance.

And if the ball is obviously foul (3b & 1st base coaches can help) yet all three corner guys leave there is nothing to do but tag. If pitcher doesn't come to cut then both guys run and force the defense to make a decision.......correct?

We also used a sign from the third base coach to the first base coach (just prior to third base coach giving signs to hitter and runners) to let the runner at first know that he is tagging up on any fly ball. Obviously if it is popped up directly to an infielder at his position then you play it straight up.....it was just a heads up to tag particularly at first.....More than anything it just has the chance to cause confusion to the defense and provided you work on it offensively it may help at times......