Anybody feel like they have something that really works? We work the cut play with the MI and P, and give a "hot" call to 3rd if we feel he is too far off. Anyone doing anything different?
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As you know, there are three types of 1st and 3rd offensive plays. Steal/stop, big lead drawing throw to 1st and delayed steal. So, in defending these plays, every program has a philosophy of which one they like the most. Most programs run the stop/steal the most. So, I liked to gamble and run a play I called, "52." 2B goes inside part of baseline and 3/4th of the way to 2B. They have to cheat some toward second base to get there. 3B must read runner at 3rd. Runner goes and catcher throws. If they are running stop steal, my 2B is in the immediate area of where the runner has practiced stopping and getting into a run down. I have always had very fast 2Bs. So, often we had a catch and tag before the runner scored. When 2B catches the ball, we want them just getting to inside the baseline and so, they have momentum going forward on catch. If runner on 3B is headed home, 3B screams "4." If catch and tag is not fast, our 2B will not throw the ball to 1st. Rather, they will run runner back to 1st keeping in mind that if they hear "4" they can wheel and throw to home. We practiced this a lot and rarely did anyone every score on us. In fact, I can't think of anyone scoring on us in a 1st and 3rd.
We have a pitch out pick to 1B. Most times we run it it catches the runner at 1st off Guard due to the fact that they are thinking the ball is going to get away.
The decision tree starts with assessing how realistic it is that your pitcher/catcher combined pop-time/accuracy can nab the runner at second.
As the defensive coach, if the probability is low, then it's just a question of which bluff/sucker-play you want to use. In other words, if your catcher is 0 for 15 on caught stealing, then you know and I know and everyone in the stands knows that you're running the cut-off play, and conceding second base. It goes in the book as a stolen base....which is one reason HS stolen base stats must be taken with a grain of salt.
On the other hand, if your pitcher/catcher are quick, then actually throwing through to second base is a viable option. Which means the stealer might stop. And then it gets interesting.
As the defensive coach, if the probability is low, then it's just a question of which bluff/sucker-play you want to use. In other words, if your catcher is 0 for 15 on caught stealing, then you know and I know and everyone in the stands knows that you're running the cut-off play, and conceding second base. It goes in the book as a stolen base....which is one reason HS stolen base stats must be taken with a grain of salt.
On the other hand, if your pitcher/catcher are quick, then actually throwing through to second base is a viable option. Which means the stealer might stop. And then it gets interesting.
Expanding on what freddy77 said...
The offense has to respect the fact that you will throw through or there is no need to even bother with a cut play. They know you aren't going after the runner from first, and just hold the runner at third.
Since we tended to play the same teams several times a year, early on in the season I occasionally gave my catcher the green light to throw through.
This usually paid off well later in the season.
Of course there is always that beautiful outcome when the offense assumes that you won't throw through and you nail a jogging runner going in to second and the runner at third is still standing on the bag.
The offense has to respect the fact that you will throw through or there is no need to even bother with a cut play. They know you aren't going after the runner from first, and just hold the runner at third.
Since we tended to play the same teams several times a year, early on in the season I occasionally gave my catcher the green light to throw through.
This usually paid off well later in the season.
Of course there is always that beautiful outcome when the offense assumes that you won't throw through and you nail a jogging runner going in to second and the runner at third is still standing on the bag.
I agree with Freddy, but I started on an earlier progression. Every coach in the books warns their runners about the "double move" where you fake to 3rd and throw to 1st. So, to tee that up, you first must sell the fact that you have a legitimate move to 3rd. So, if you are not going to pick to 3rd (and be aggressive about it) you tip the whole play before it starts. So, run a solid timing play to 3rd base and you create fear in a runner (and the base coach). Run a solid move to 1b? Same, create fear in a runner. The anticipation that you might do either? More fear. The anticipation that you might run the double move? More fear. All created simply to slow the game down just a little bit, and all predicated on a solid pick-off move the 3B. (NOTE: Righties don't practice it enough, nor do Lefties, but when a lefty does it, it can create quite a scene). Once you slow down the runners, the other plays have a chance to work based on what your players can execute. Mix in a few "catcher" picks and you can effectively hold the runners without even throwing to 2b.
I tried to make it as simple as possible. I found that high school middle infielders usually don't have the skills to manage all the things going on during this play. Boiled it down to two options. Basically red and green.
Red = the runner at third is not allowed to score. Period. Don't care if the guy on first walks to second. No run scores.
Green = get an out. Don't care which runner it is. Will trade a run for an out.
I found this made things so much easier for middle infielders and eliminated cutoffs, mental errors, poor judgement, and a lack of skills.
For what it's worth.
BaseballByTheYard.com
Red = the runner at third is not allowed to score. Period. Don't care if the guy on first walks to second. No run scores.
Green = get an out. Don't care which runner it is. Will trade a run for an out.
I found this made things so much easier for middle infielders and eliminated cutoffs, mental errors, poor judgement, and a lack of skills.
For what it's worth.
BaseballByTheYard.com
Agree with the simple way meachrm handles the situation. Unless the runner on 3rd is very agressive we will focus on the runner stealing second the first time the situation comes up. The thinking being the runner on third is uncertain what we are doing and later in a close game the focus goes to runner on third.
The one thing I have noticed is not a lot of teams run first and third offenses anymore. 99% of the time when we run a SS cut the guys goes all the way through. The only time I cut the ball if it is a guy on 1st that I know has no speed. What I have started doing is throwing through and have the pitcher bluff a pitcher cut. I am sure we will be caught eventually but in two years we have not been caught yet. Runner always sprints back to the bag and the coach always yells back.
LMAO...IESBL, i asked my son's HS coaching staff why they DON'T teach the pitcher to do the fake cut no matter what play they run and by the looks on there face you'd of thought that I aksed them to explain some kind of quantum physic's theory to me. Needles to say they still don't teach or practice it so my so son is the only one who does it.
Lefthook....To be completely honest I stumbled across this by accident. We had a pitcher fake cut totally on his own during the game. The kid went diving back and the coach was yelling, "BACK!!" I asked the kid why he did it and he said I have no idea. The next practice all of our pitchers have always done it. To me it is like a play action pass in football. It forces the runner at 3rd/Linebacker to play things honestly.
The only time we do do it is when we run a Short Stop cut. At this point we want the runner and coach to feel comfortable.
The only time we do do it is when we run a Short Stop cut. At this point we want the runner and coach to feel comfortable.
Yep, don't know why it is not incorporated in every 1st and 3rd defensive play......we did that when I was in hs, have taught all my kids the same way
we do it as well. We also change it up and have the 3rd baseman break to the bag and ask for the ball while we throw through. they really don't like this one.
I like that one.
