http://www.baseballfactory.com/ourprograms/preseasonall...sp#AllAmericanRoster 2008 Under Armour Pre-Season All-America Tournament Roster
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Since my son was selected as a Pre Season Under Armour All American but we were not willing to shell out mega bucks to attend the game - does that mean he is not an All American? What would they do if every kid that they selected decided to attend? So your an All American if you pay the money to attend? But if you are selected and decide not to pay the money you are not? So you pay for the tag All American? What do you think Frank?
There are a few Texas names on the list that are highly recognizable. There are many more from Texas that I have never heard of.
I know of one player (who isn't on this list) whose folks paid thousands of dollars in fees and travel expenses this past summer for him to be part of the Under Armour National Team -- after they paid $100 for him to try out for the team. He has yet to receive a scholarship offer from any level college.
I know of one player (who isn't on this list) whose folks paid thousands of dollars in fees and travel expenses this past summer for him to be part of the Under Armour National Team -- after they paid $100 for him to try out for the team. He has yet to receive a scholarship offer from any level college.
Coach May-
How much was big bucks, just curious.
Also, isn't that true with every showcase. If you are invited or selected, but say, cannot afford it and you pass, the ones that pay and go, get a rating - you don't. Make sense?
How much was big bucks, just curious.
Also, isn't that true with every showcase. If you are invited or selected, but say, cannot afford it and you pass, the ones that pay and go, get a rating - you don't. Make sense?
as butch asked sundance
"who are those guys"
"who are those guys"
quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
What would they do if every kid that they selected decided to attend?
Baseball Factory would make a lot more "money" ($800 per player?) and then could really rename themselves!
Here is my point. You get a big package in the mail. On the letter it says "Congratulations you have been named an Under Armour Pre Season All American".
Then the letter goes on to tell you that for X number of dollars you can play in the All American Game. If you do not go they do not list you as an All American. If you pay the fee and go you are listed as an All American.
So in fact you Pay to be and All American. Dont tell someone they are an All American then go on to say for X number of dollars you can play in the game.
Either you are or your not. It should not be you are if you pay and play or not if you dont pay. It has no credibility.
Then the letter goes on to tell you that for X number of dollars you can play in the All American Game. If you do not go they do not list you as an All American. If you pay the fee and go you are listed as an All American.
So in fact you Pay to be and All American. Dont tell someone they are an All American then go on to say for X number of dollars you can play in the game.
Either you are or your not. It should not be you are if you pay and play or not if you dont pay. It has no credibility.
quote:Originally posted by Infield08:
There are a few Texas names on the list that are highly recognizable. There are many more from Texas that I have never heard of.
Seems as though they missed some of the top Texans like JP, Grossman, Purke, Cosart, Swaggerty, Jungman, Walker Kelly...
quote:Seems as though they missed some of the top Texans like JP, Grossman, Purke, Cosart, Swaggerty, Jungman, Walker Kelly...
You got it!
No they didnt miss them. You can bet they all got the same package in the mail my son got. And so did the Lassiters Hanovers Messers Williamsons in NC. They just decided that they didnt want to pay to be named an All American.
Five NC players going. One is ranked. And he is #24 in NC and #681 in the nation. So #1-#23 are not All Americans. But #24 is. And the other 4 who are not in the top 1,400 in PG Crosschecker or not listed at all on BA list are All Americans. Hey get out your checkbook and be an All American!
Reminds of a few years back. I had a kid that was a pretty good hs ss. He went to a Baseball Factory Showcase and was invited to play in an All American game. He came back with a certificate which said "Baseball Factory High School All American". He had a press release in all the local papers announcing this. He didnt even make all conference. We had a pitcher that year drafted in the 3rd round. But he didnt make the All American team.
Bottom line is there is no way these people will ever have any credibility with the baseball world untill they stop this stuff. They are using the All American tag to get kids to shell out money to get this award. It means nothing to the people that matter. But these people paying the money have no clue. Its really sad.
Reminds of a few years back. I had a kid that was a pretty good hs ss. He went to a Baseball Factory Showcase and was invited to play in an All American game. He came back with a certificate which said "Baseball Factory High School All American". He had a press release in all the local papers announcing this. He didnt even make all conference. We had a pitcher that year drafted in the 3rd round. But he didnt make the All American team.
Bottom line is there is no way these people will ever have any credibility with the baseball world untill they stop this stuff. They are using the All American tag to get kids to shell out money to get this award. It means nothing to the people that matter. But these people paying the money have no clue. Its really sad.
Just about as bogus as ever.
Some things never change. LOL
Baseball Factory my ***
More like Baseball Cash Register IMO.
Some things never change. LOL
Baseball Factory my ***
More like Baseball Cash Register IMO.
To answer the question, I think the cost for the Under Armour event was $799, plus you bear your own travel expenses, so the total cost was going to be $1,500-2,000, depending on whether Mom & Dad tag along.
By comparison, the AFLAC game pays all expenses of the player, and though parents are on their own, the swag the players bring back almost help you break even.
The summer Cape Code High School Classic charges no fee and provides player hotel, but travel to & from is the player's responsibility, nothing for parents.
This is just the financial scoop. If you were comparing overall experience for the players and families, it's pretty much the AFLAC game and then everybody else way back in the pack.
By comparison, the AFLAC game pays all expenses of the player, and though parents are on their own, the swag the players bring back almost help you break even.
The summer Cape Code High School Classic charges no fee and provides player hotel, but travel to & from is the player's responsibility, nothing for parents.
This is just the financial scoop. If you were comparing overall experience for the players and families, it's pretty much the AFLAC game and then everybody else way back in the pack.
I would really like to see some controls put on some of these companies to eliminate the implied selectivity of these events. The terms "invitation" or you have been "selected" are thrown around at will, and unfortunately people are buying into it at record pace. The bottom line is that anyone can go if they write the check, and when thats the case you've got a questionable talent pool.
quote:Originally posted by rbinaz:
I would really like to see some controls put on some of these companies to eliminate the implied selectivity of these events. The terms "invitation" or you have been "selected" are thrown around at will, and unfortunately people are buying into it at record pace. The bottom line is that anyone can go if they write the check, and when thats the case you've got a questionable talent pool.
There are several showcases/events which truly select which players can attend the event, some really only choose the very top players they can get to attend the event and produce a very selective group of players who attend.
Others use the line you have been recommended by ....... and we fell that you qualify to pay this $$$ amount to attend the showcase. Others run qualifying events where you can spend a couple of hundred dollars to see if you will/or are willing to spend thousands of dollars with their organization.
quote:I would really like to see some controls put on some of these companies to eliminate the implied selectivity of these events.
On the contrary, selectivity is involved with Under Armour .... as in .... "You have been selected to be our sucker-of-the-week!"
I know a kid that went to one of there tryouts or showcase last May, and he did not get a invite. he is a senior and one of the best cathers in the Region.
Read my earlier post. 5 players attended from NC. Only one is ranked with PG crosschecker. Im very familiar with the top players in NC. Out of the top 25 - 1 was listed. Now where are the other 24? I will tell you what happened. They decided not to shell out the big bucks to attend and be named All Americans.
If your going to name an All American team then name it. If your going to name an All American team then do your research yourself , call trusted sources , go watch some kids play etc etc and then name it. If your going to require people to pay for the right to be named an All American then it has no credibility. Is that so hard to understand?
If your going to name an All American team then name it. If your going to name an All American team then do your research yourself , call trusted sources , go watch some kids play etc etc and then name it. If your going to require people to pay for the right to be named an All American then it has no credibility. Is that so hard to understand?
quote:There are several showcases/events which truly select which players can attend the event, some really only choose the very top players they can get to attend the event and produce a very selective group of players who attend
This is true...and most of these better players don't pay a dime or pay a greatly reduced rate.
Its time for people to wake up and smell the coffee with many of these events. When there's a marquee name attending, he isn't paying what you are if he's paying at all. In addition, his name will be used as advertising fodder for the next crop of players who come along.
I'm confused. So we shouldn't go to any showcases where we have to pay because if we are paying then we are nobody and shouln't be at the showcases anyway? And....the guys that go to the showcases for free, lend their studliness to that showcase to lure in the rest of the unworthies that should pay just to be around the studs? I don't get it.
I hear 'ya, iheartbb. I know that showcases like AFLAC and Area Code Games do not charge ANY of the participants, but frankly, I would think it would violate NCAA policy for a showcase to charge all the participants except a few studs.
I just wish folks out there recognized the difference between valid pay-to-play showcases that seek to greatly benefit the player, such as Perfect Game events, and showcases put on by organizations whose over-arching goal is to make money at the expense of unsuspecting, well-intentioned parents who want to help their sons reach the next level.
I just wish folks out there recognized the difference between valid pay-to-play showcases that seek to greatly benefit the player, such as Perfect Game events, and showcases put on by organizations whose over-arching goal is to make money at the expense of unsuspecting, well-intentioned parents who want to help their sons reach the next level.
All this points out that people (players, parents) need to do their homework and find the "best" situation for them and their budget. This website is a great resource for helping with that homework.
Let the buyer beware.
Let the buyer beware.
It doesn't look like too bad of a showcase. There was a note in the local paper about one of the players and I looked him up on PG where he was rated an 8.5 at his last showcase.
Obviously, the pre-season all-american thing doesn't mean too much but if putting a note in the paper makes somebody feel good, so what? The question is what type of scouts are going to be there and how will the information about how the players get evaluated get out to college coaches?
You pay for the PG showcases because you know that there's going to be a fair evaluation published and that college coaches do take a look at them.
Obviously, the pre-season all-american thing doesn't mean too much but if putting a note in the paper makes somebody feel good, so what? The question is what type of scouts are going to be there and how will the information about how the players get evaluated get out to college coaches?
You pay for the PG showcases because you know that there's going to be a fair evaluation published and that college coaches do take a look at them.
So, what happens on this board if one admits having had a positive experience with one of these "organizations whose over-arching goal is to make money at the expense of unsuspecting, well-intentioned parents who want to help their sons reach the next level". We participated in two of their events, it was fun (we took our family vacation around the second event which was more of a training camp with a tournament than a showcase), kind of expensive (but the total cost was not the most expensive vacation we've ever taken), we weren't told unrealistic things about our son, we were given a web site that contained an evaluation of our son (60 time/home to first time/radar spped/general comments) with video they made and video I provided. Armed with the recommendations (that he should try DII/DIII/NAIA schools), our son made a list of schools, emailed the coach at his #1 choice school providing a link to his on-line evaluation, was invited to a work out and visitation, and received a scholarship offer (the athletic part was multiple times the cost of the events we attended and the total package was even better). He plans to attend there next fall. I think we could have saved some money and gone another route, but the services provided by the organization were professional, they were responsive and helpful, and we got what we wanted. I might add that we aren't from an area or school that is a baseball hotbed and our son decided kind of late that he wanted to pursue this goal, so we were starting the process at a disadvantage in some respects. Getting to see my son play and be trained on a professional spring training facility by former major leaguers/college coaches/scouts was memorable and worth something for this small-town dad, apart from the other things I have said.
rwulf, I'm genuinely happy things turned out so well through your son's involvement with this organization. Hopefully, there are others who have had positive experiences too.
What concerns me is the many families who can ill-afford to pay for this type of participation and could probably get a lot more bang for their buck by attending a PG showcase and a couple of camps at colleges they're interested in.
I am glad your son received interest that was based in part on his on-line evaluation, but I know of several players who have received NO interest as a result of their very costly UA participation. Hopefully, your son is not the only "exception" to the rule.
Best wishes to your son this coming year!
What concerns me is the many families who can ill-afford to pay for this type of participation and could probably get a lot more bang for their buck by attending a PG showcase and a couple of camps at colleges they're interested in.
I am glad your son received interest that was based in part on his on-line evaluation, but I know of several players who have received NO interest as a result of their very costly UA participation. Hopefully, your son is not the only "exception" to the rule.
Best wishes to your son this coming year!
I am glad to hear that someone has had a good experience with this organization.
Unfortunately, that was not the case, with us.
I will make a disclaimer that I dont make it a habit to talk negative about any organization publically, but because this particular one involves a pretty steep investment price, I think it fair to tell all sides and let consumers decided for themselves.
My advice would be to ask specific questions and to never assume anything.
So the story goes:
Professional " scouts " were supposed to be at the preliminary evaluation ( which buy the way cost $100. )
When we got there, there were only two guys to evaluate approximately 200 kids and they were running well over an hour late. One for the bullpen, one for the field.
When I asked their credentials, I found out they were Div. II players " back in the day ". Hmmmmmm.
Showcase took well over 6 hours. Kids stood in the hot sun and waited hours and hours for their two minutes of " try-out time ". Yawn.
Have you done the math? $100 x 200 kids = moolah profit!
Showcase is over and we go home, thunk-ing ourselves ( I could have had a V-8 style ) on the head the entire way.
Live and learn we say.
We just got suckered and we know it.
Will work extra hard to make sure it doesnt happen twice.
Then, we get the call.
By golly-gee wilipers,..... son made the team! Whatta ya know???
All we have to do now is pay the $3,700.00 and walah, he's in like flint!
Hmmmmmmm.
After I pick myself up off the floor ( stunned & shocked at the sticker price of $3700.00- but hey, he gets a FREE Under Armour shirt and pair of cleats )....
I ask what pro scout and colleges will be in attendence..
( not that I would actually recognize any name they might tell me, but surely I can ask around on the HSBBW for confirmation, right?)
Answer: " Ohhh lots of pros from all MLB organizations and plenty of colleges too. "
When I ask for specifics,...as in names I get the run around. No particular name or college is ever mentioned. Kind of like asking a used car salesman the price of a car, and they answer with, " How much can you afford? ".
My head starts to spin.
Round and round we go. This goes on for about 20 minutes. I finally give in and drop it.
I then mention that we would like a copy of the written evaluation. ( what the heck, it might just be comical ) )
The guy on the end of the phone tells me " Sure ma'am,..but it will cost you $100. ". What???????
Hmmmmmm again.
I tell himto stick it where the sun dont shine, thanks anyways and hang up. He calls back about 4 times in a several week period. I block his call.
We are still receiving emails from this company about playing in this tournament. I just recently took notice that the cost had gone down to a mere $799.00,...oh, plus airfare, hotel, and expenses.
Thanks,...but for this ol' shortstopmomma and fam,..I think a $4,000.00+ vacation should at least come with the smell of the ocean,...some sand,..a few mai-tais, waves and a grass hut in the Bahamas somewhere.....or at the very least a sweet view behind home plate at Rosenblatt Stadium during the CWS!!
Rwulf,...just a note: & with all due respect, you were not " given " the above said website. You paid for it.
I am sincerely glad that things did work out for your son,...and the thought of him getting to play at his dream school is probably priceless.
You get thanked for stepping up and telling about your experiences. All opinions and experiences welcome. Thats the beauty of this site. We can throw it out there and let people decide for themselves as to what they choose to do.
The thing of it is, is that I can think of about a half a dozen ways to get a player seen for either free or for a fraction of the cost that this particular organization requires.
To some parties it matters. To others, cost is not an issue. Its about choice.
Rwulf, I am sure you will have lots of memories and good times ahead of you, for your entire family. Getting to play at the next level is a true honor and I sincerely congratulate your son on what he has accomplished!
I hope you will continue to post and keep us updated as he goes through his baseball adventures.
We all work hard, and we may take different journeys, yet our destination is almost always the same....
....to a baseball field out there somewhere in the great blue yonder.
Indeed.
Unfortunately, that was not the case, with us.
I will make a disclaimer that I dont make it a habit to talk negative about any organization publically, but because this particular one involves a pretty steep investment price, I think it fair to tell all sides and let consumers decided for themselves.
My advice would be to ask specific questions and to never assume anything.
So the story goes:
Professional " scouts " were supposed to be at the preliminary evaluation ( which buy the way cost $100. )
When we got there, there were only two guys to evaluate approximately 200 kids and they were running well over an hour late. One for the bullpen, one for the field.
When I asked their credentials, I found out they were Div. II players " back in the day ". Hmmmmmm.
Showcase took well over 6 hours. Kids stood in the hot sun and waited hours and hours for their two minutes of " try-out time ". Yawn.
Have you done the math? $100 x 200 kids = moolah profit!
Showcase is over and we go home, thunk-ing ourselves ( I could have had a V-8 style ) on the head the entire way.
Live and learn we say.
We just got suckered and we know it.
Will work extra hard to make sure it doesnt happen twice.
Then, we get the call.
By golly-gee wilipers,..... son made the team! Whatta ya know???
All we have to do now is pay the $3,700.00 and walah, he's in like flint!
Hmmmmmmm.
After I pick myself up off the floor ( stunned & shocked at the sticker price of $3700.00- but hey, he gets a FREE Under Armour shirt and pair of cleats )....
I ask what pro scout and colleges will be in attendence..
( not that I would actually recognize any name they might tell me, but surely I can ask around on the HSBBW for confirmation, right?)
Answer: " Ohhh lots of pros from all MLB organizations and plenty of colleges too. "
When I ask for specifics,...as in names I get the run around. No particular name or college is ever mentioned. Kind of like asking a used car salesman the price of a car, and they answer with, " How much can you afford? ".
My head starts to spin.
Round and round we go. This goes on for about 20 minutes. I finally give in and drop it.
I then mention that we would like a copy of the written evaluation. ( what the heck, it might just be comical ) )
The guy on the end of the phone tells me " Sure ma'am,..but it will cost you $100. ". What???????
Hmmmmmm again.
I tell him
We are still receiving emails from this company about playing in this tournament. I just recently took notice that the cost had gone down to a mere $799.00,...oh, plus airfare, hotel, and expenses.
Thanks,...but for this ol' shortstopmomma and fam,..I think a $4,000.00+ vacation should at least come with the smell of the ocean,...some sand,..a few mai-tais, waves and a grass hut in the Bahamas somewhere.....or at the very least a sweet view behind home plate at Rosenblatt Stadium during the CWS!!
quote:we were given a web site that contained an evaluation of our son (60 time/home to first time/radar spped/general comments) with video they made and video I provided.
Rwulf,...just a note: & with all due respect, you were not " given " the above said website. You paid for it.
I am sincerely glad that things did work out for your son,...and the thought of him getting to play at his dream school is probably priceless.
quote:So, what happens on this board if one admits having had a positive experience with one of these "organizations whose over-arching goal is to make money at the expense of unsuspecting, well-intentioned parents who want to help their sons reach the next level".
You get thanked for stepping up and telling about your experiences. All opinions and experiences welcome. Thats the beauty of this site. We can throw it out there and let people decide for themselves as to what they choose to do.
The thing of it is, is that I can think of about a half a dozen ways to get a player seen for either free or for a fraction of the cost that this particular organization requires.
To some parties it matters. To others, cost is not an issue. Its about choice.
Rwulf, I am sure you will have lots of memories and good times ahead of you, for your entire family. Getting to play at the next level is a true honor and I sincerely congratulate your son on what he has accomplished!
I hope you will continue to post and keep us updated as he goes through his baseball adventures.
We all work hard, and we may take different journeys, yet our destination is almost always the same....
....to a baseball field out there somewhere in the great blue yonder.
quote:Getting to see my son play and be trained on a professional spring training facility by former major leaguers/college coaches/scouts was memorable and worth something for this small-town dad,
Indeed.
No offense taken on the responses. I just wanted to present a different point of view. BTW - when I used the word "given", I didn't mean for free. From your posts, you all know what the cost is. I meant it in the sense of "I gave the machine a dollar and it gave me a candy bar". As far as the price and some of the kind of promises I guess this company has made to some people, I am old enough to learn to throw away the wrapper and play with the toy. I don't feel like we were misled about anything. We weren't told there would be lots of scouts at the event (there were some, but not many). The bang our son got for our many bucks were the following:
1) Website and fast update support (usually within four hours) as things like SAT scores came in or videos got made.
2) Four lodging nights at the Dodgers spring training facility.
3) Four much better-than-average buffet breakfast and supper meals prepared by the Dodger's staff at the facilities and five bag lunches.
4) Instruction/training/stations/motivational speaking from 8:00 AM till about 10:00 PM (breaks for meals and games, stuff after 7:00 PM was optional).
5) Three evaluations (one for hitting/fielding at the tryout, one for hitting/fielding at the camp, one for pitching at the camp) including all the normal things that should be on an evaluation.
6) Individual counseling time with our family about how to pursue college plans related to where they saw our son fitting in.
7) Four six-inning games in a tournament (our son's team finished second). Our son got eight plate appearances, two pitching innings, and about 15 outfield innings (his primary position) spread over all three outfield positions.
8) An offer to be a reference by the head coach of his tournament team (a former minor league player and a current MLB head scout for a region of the USA).
These were the tangible things we paid for. The intangibles included things like getting to play on a team with good players at every position, opening my son's eyes to his possibilities, the challenge of playing with a lot of players that were better than him, etc.
The dissapointments were the following:
1) He got to run the 60 twice and finished on the slow side for him (7.31, 7.36) because of bad starts. Fortunately, he had a good home to first time (4.36), which is more indicative of his speed, and we were able to point to that when initiating discussion with his future coaching staff.
2) The evaluations were accurate for the most part (plus and minus points), including giving him credit for fixing the problems he had in the first evaluation (they were real problems that I had been trying to get him to fix for some time, but their pointing them out caused him to work hard and to fix them by the second event about three months later). However, they asked him to do relief pitching at the camp, which he did. He is not destined to be a big time pitcher. He throws four different pitches. His innings went very well (one seven pitch three batter inning and one eight pitch three batter inning) and he used all of his pitches at least once and most of them at least four or five times. They clocked the pitches, but recorded the entire range as "fastballs" giving him a velocity range that looked like he had very inconsistent speed and no alternate pitches. I admit he doesn't have a big bender, but I could tell which ones were curves and I could tell his splitter when it dropped. I wasn't too impressed with this and they compromised by only using the fastest few times (probably his few four-seamers) to record the velocity. They left in the written evaluation, though, that he needed to work on a second pitch to have value at the college level.
I am not sure what the fair price should be for something like this, but I think it is a little bit of "apples to oranges" comparing it to a showcase. I know they made money. I expect them to make some. I can't say this would be worth it for everyone, but I am not complaining. I thought with a list like this, someone could see what you get for your money and maybe make a more balanced evaluation of the product.
Thanks for keeping up such an awesome website.
1) Website and fast update support (usually within four hours) as things like SAT scores came in or videos got made.
2) Four lodging nights at the Dodgers spring training facility.
3) Four much better-than-average buffet breakfast and supper meals prepared by the Dodger's staff at the facilities and five bag lunches.
4) Instruction/training/stations/motivational speaking from 8:00 AM till about 10:00 PM (breaks for meals and games, stuff after 7:00 PM was optional).
5) Three evaluations (one for hitting/fielding at the tryout, one for hitting/fielding at the camp, one for pitching at the camp) including all the normal things that should be on an evaluation.
6) Individual counseling time with our family about how to pursue college plans related to where they saw our son fitting in.
7) Four six-inning games in a tournament (our son's team finished second). Our son got eight plate appearances, two pitching innings, and about 15 outfield innings (his primary position) spread over all three outfield positions.
8) An offer to be a reference by the head coach of his tournament team (a former minor league player and a current MLB head scout for a region of the USA).
These were the tangible things we paid for. The intangibles included things like getting to play on a team with good players at every position, opening my son's eyes to his possibilities, the challenge of playing with a lot of players that were better than him, etc.
The dissapointments were the following:
1) He got to run the 60 twice and finished on the slow side for him (7.31, 7.36) because of bad starts. Fortunately, he had a good home to first time (4.36), which is more indicative of his speed, and we were able to point to that when initiating discussion with his future coaching staff.
2) The evaluations were accurate for the most part (plus and minus points), including giving him credit for fixing the problems he had in the first evaluation (they were real problems that I had been trying to get him to fix for some time, but their pointing them out caused him to work hard and to fix them by the second event about three months later). However, they asked him to do relief pitching at the camp, which he did. He is not destined to be a big time pitcher. He throws four different pitches. His innings went very well (one seven pitch three batter inning and one eight pitch three batter inning) and he used all of his pitches at least once and most of them at least four or five times. They clocked the pitches, but recorded the entire range as "fastballs" giving him a velocity range that looked like he had very inconsistent speed and no alternate pitches. I admit he doesn't have a big bender, but I could tell which ones were curves and I could tell his splitter when it dropped. I wasn't too impressed with this and they compromised by only using the fastest few times (probably his few four-seamers) to record the velocity. They left in the written evaluation, though, that he needed to work on a second pitch to have value at the college level.
I am not sure what the fair price should be for something like this, but I think it is a little bit of "apples to oranges" comparing it to a showcase. I know they made money. I expect them to make some. I can't say this would be worth it for everyone, but I am not complaining. I thought with a list like this, someone could see what you get for your money and maybe make a more balanced evaluation of the product.
Thanks for keeping up such an awesome website.
I forgot to mention in my tangible stuff list: Under Armout cleats, Under Armour turf shoes, Under Armout top in his team's color, Under Armour fitted hat, a Mattingly wood bat, and a tee shirt.
Okay Shortstopmomma-
We're ready to hear those half a dozen ways of being seen for free, or at low cost. Please share!
We're ready to hear those half a dozen ways of being seen for free, or at low cost. Please share!
rwulf,
It's great to hear that you were satisfied with your experience and the after-effects. And your posts were very informative. I enjoyed reading them. Thanks.
My beef is with the misleading title of All-American. I was wondering what percentage of the attendees in 2007 were selected in the first 10 rounds of the MLB draft. I did a check of some players' names from Texas that I exepect will be high up in this year's draft given that they were selected as Aflac All-Americans or players for Team USA's Junior National team; perhaps the highest and most competitive honors. None were selected for the honor by Under Armour.
By the way, welcome to HSBBW.
It's great to hear that you were satisfied with your experience and the after-effects. And your posts were very informative. I enjoyed reading them. Thanks.
My beef is with the misleading title of All-American. I was wondering what percentage of the attendees in 2007 were selected in the first 10 rounds of the MLB draft. I did a check of some players' names from Texas that I exepect will be high up in this year's draft given that they were selected as Aflac All-Americans or players for Team USA's Junior National team; perhaps the highest and most competitive honors. None were selected for the honor by Under Armour.
By the way, welcome to HSBBW.
I agree with infidel, the All American is misleading for a showcase. How about the Under Armor Classic? Parents see All American and that excites them. That's their marketing ploy.
It does sound like you got some bang in your buck, and you were satisfied and that is what is important, but in this game, what is most important is who is watching on the sidelines and the evaluation. For that price, I would want to see a whole lot of radar guns on my pitcher. Please do not take offense, but if they said that your son needed more than one pitch to pitch on the college level, your son either is not All American status or they were bad at evaluating talent.
The scholarship your son received most likely could have been achieved by just attending the schools camp or a local showcase that was run well. For what you might have paid for this event, I think we spent a bit more than that in 4 years in HS, including extensive travel, got greater exposure and that means more opportunities for the player to choose from.
JMO.
It does sound like you got some bang in your buck, and you were satisfied and that is what is important, but in this game, what is most important is who is watching on the sidelines and the evaluation. For that price, I would want to see a whole lot of radar guns on my pitcher. Please do not take offense, but if they said that your son needed more than one pitch to pitch on the college level, your son either is not All American status or they were bad at evaluating talent.
The scholarship your son received most likely could have been achieved by just attending the schools camp or a local showcase that was run well. For what you might have paid for this event, I think we spent a bit more than that in 4 years in HS, including extensive travel, got greater exposure and that means more opportunities for the player to choose from.
JMO.
TPM - I am not offended, but I wonder if you read all of my posts. He is not All-American and he only pitched because they asked if he would (we submitted him as an outfielder). He is not an All-American outfielder, either (evaluated as a DII, DIII, NAIA level). We weren't told by anybody that he was an All-American. We were accurately informed about what we were getting for our money. I was given a list of parents to talk to about what happened in their situations. I called one and talked for about an hour and she gave me a very accurate picture of what to expect. I would guess if my son were a DI prospect, I would have gone the showcase route and things could have fallen into place differently. But, as it was, it didn't break our bank and it worked out OK. I agree that the All-American stuff seems cheesy. They should just market what they are doing as a service, let people know what they get for their money, and then perform the services they offer (this is what they did in our case since we didn't have the "problem" of dealing with a hot prospect that we had to pretend was an All-American). I considered the "do it ourselves" routine and decided I didn't know enough about the process to do that well at it. I didn't know about this awesome place then! Also, you have to realize that my son's club ice hockey bills amount to $1500 or so a year, so a one-time education course expense in college baseball recruitment (which is really how I view the experience) wasn't way out of line. In our case, it wasn't about who was on the sidelines and how many radar guns there were, because I didn't go into the event thinking they would be there (it wasn't promised and my parent contact told me what to expect on this front). And to restate again, the views here seemed a little monolithic, so I just wanted to offer an alternative look.
quote:Okay Shortstopmomma-
We're ready to hear those half a dozen ways of being seen for free, or at low cost. Please share!
Okie-dokie here it goes: ( drum-roll please. Why do I feel ike David Letterman all of a sudden?- ha!)
#1.) Have son call college coach and ask for a tryout or workout with the team.
Cost = mileage, gas, and time.
( You would be suprised at how many coaches will be accommodating . )
#2.) Make a video and send it out via email.
Cost= price of CD and an afternoon with your son.
Krakatoa just made one of his son and put it out on U-Tube!
#3.) Attend college showcase or camp.
Cost varies.
In our area most Div.I's have cost around $100-$239. ( depending on length of camp )
Division II around $50-60.
Son went to a JUCO camp.
Cost $30.
Was seen my MLB scout and got selected to tryout for the Area Code Process.
Area Code tryout: free.
Seen by K-Sate and others around the country while there.
#3 1/2.) Anyone can fill out an Area Code questionnaire for free on their website.
Although we did not attend one, I believe they have free ( or very low cost ) Area Code camps.
#4.) Attend Pastime Tournament Showcase.
I think their entry fee ran about $55-$75.
30-40 college recruiting scouts in attendence.
#5.) PG showcase: $500,.... and more exposure than one could ever imagine!
#6.) Send colleges your Spring schedule and then follow up with invites for them to come watch.
Be persisitant! Sometimes coaches are looking for the athlete that truely has interest in them!
Tah-dahhhhhhh,...I think that's about half a dozen.
( Off the top of my head. If I get lucky and after a couple of cups of coffee, I may think of more-
)quote:Originally posted by shortstopmom:quote:Okay Shortstopmomma-
We're ready to hear those half a dozen ways of being seen for free, or at low cost. Please share!
Okie-dokie here it goes: ( drum-roll please. Why do I feel ike David Letterman all of a sudden?- ha!)
#1.) Have son call college coach and ask for a tryout or workout with the team.
Cost = mileage, gas, and time.
( You would be suprised at how many coaches will be accommodating . )
#2.) Make a video and send it out via email.
Cost= price of CD and an afternoon with your son.
Krakatoa just made one of his son and put it out on U-Tube!
#3.) Attend college showcase or camp.
Cost varies.
In our area most Div.I's have cost around $100-$239. ( depending on length of camp )
Division II around $50-60.
Son went to a JUCO camp.
Cost $30.
Was seen my MLB scout and got selected to tryout for the Area Code Process.
Area Code tryout: free.
Seen by K-Sate and others around the country while there.
#3 1/2.)* Anyone can fill out an Area Code questionnaire for free on their website.
Although we did not attend one, I believe they have free ( or very low cost ) Area Code camps.
#4.) Attend Pastime Tournament Showcase.
I think their entry fee ran about $55-$75.
30-40 college recruiting scouts in attendence.
#5.) PG showcase: $500,.... and more exposure than one could ever imagine!
#6.) Send colleges your Spring schedule and then follow up with invites for them to come watch.
Be persisitant! Sometimes coaches are looking for the athlete that truely has interest in them!
Tah-dahhhhhhh,...I think that's about half a dozen.
( Off the top of my head. If I get lucky and after a couple of cups of coffee, I may think of more-
shortstopmom - outstanding post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would only disagree with one thing you said:
quote:#6.) Send colleges your Spring schedule and then follow up with invites for them to come watch.
Be persisitant!Sometimescoaches are looking for the athlete that truely has interest in them!
One of the best posts I have ever seen here on the hsbbweb!!!
Great information.
ruwulf,
I did take the time to read your posts and I appreciate your response. I understood about the pitching, but in most showcases, it's always best to show your best stuff. In our case, PG showcase son could have gotten up at bat being a strong hitter and played a position, but that was not in his best interest at that time (or no time for that matter). He did very well at the showcases he attended, but would he have stood out as a pitcher if he had done both? But for that amount of money I suppose I would want to get the most I could, at that time.
He could have attended a showcase where your biggest thrill was having many scouts and college coaches behind the fence doing the watching. That someday translates into more opportunities. I see no value in an ex pro player or scout spending an hour watching my son. The recruiting process would be about value, where you spend the least you can for what you may get later on. Most likely your son attending this may have had no bearing on where he will play. For the tips and pointers he may have gotten and used, he could do a few private lessons for that.
But as I said, you did get out of it what you expected, others don't see it that way and both sides are to be considered.
I understand also it is the UNDER ARMOUR All-American Tournnament Roster, misleading. I would want to know their criteria for being on their list besides $$$$$.
I did take the time to read your posts and I appreciate your response. I understood about the pitching, but in most showcases, it's always best to show your best stuff. In our case, PG showcase son could have gotten up at bat being a strong hitter and played a position, but that was not in his best interest at that time (or no time for that matter). He did very well at the showcases he attended, but would he have stood out as a pitcher if he had done both? But for that amount of money I suppose I would want to get the most I could, at that time.
He could have attended a showcase where your biggest thrill was having many scouts and college coaches behind the fence doing the watching. That someday translates into more opportunities. I see no value in an ex pro player or scout spending an hour watching my son. The recruiting process would be about value, where you spend the least you can for what you may get later on. Most likely your son attending this may have had no bearing on where he will play. For the tips and pointers he may have gotten and used, he could do a few private lessons for that.
But as I said, you did get out of it what you expected, others don't see it that way and both sides are to be considered.
I understand also it is the UNDER ARMOUR All-American Tournnament Roster, misleading. I would want to know their criteria for being on their list besides $$$$$.
The main contact we had for the Under Armor All-American event I believe came through Baseball Factory. BF is a reputable organization and although we have never attended one, we have heard that they run decent showcases.
BF and Team One also join forces to run the annual Cape Cod High School Baseball Classic, and players who participate there are also labelled as "All-Americans".
I am basically in agreement with Infidel_08, but here's the rundown on the major "All-American" playing opportunities (as distinguished from mere lists that can be found in several additional places):
1. AFLAC-- not kissing up to PG or anything, but this is the real deal. I doubt very seriously that many kids have turned this one down over the years, save perhaps for injury. Actually even injured players tend to make this trip because it is such a genuine and outstanding total experience. Thus you don't see the issue with PG having to move further down the lists just to fill out rosters.
While you can always argue with the player selection decisions, there is NEVER any suggestion that the player must pay something or commit to something to participate in AFLAC. There is ZERO charge to the player for participation. Air fare, hotel and meals are also provided, along with an overwhelming amount of gear and other swag to take home at the end. Not to mention things like getting your picture taken with the annual event honorary chairman (Ozzie Smith this year!). The players get a week of being treated like celebrities, and their schedule is chock full of events both on the field and off.
2. Cape Cod Classic -- Baseball Factor and Team One want this event ultimately to rival the AFLAC game. It was a decent event, but to be honest, not remotely comparable to the AFLAC experience. The rosters did include several AA caliber players including a handful who also participated at AFLAC, plus a few others who have an argument for perhaps being as good as anybody you'll find anywhere. HOWEVER, we were personally aware of a large number of players roundly acknowledged as among the very top prospects who were invited and declined. There were also a substantial number of kids who accepted and then backed out at the last moment, which left BF/TO scrambling for replacements at the last minute. The replacements were good players but not AA caliber, IMHO.
Cape Cod charges no fee and provides hotel and meals for players plus a modest amount of swag. This leaves you handling your own air fare. Accommodations and field facilities were second rate. Attendance was meager. Events off the field were virtually non-existent, and those that did occur were unimpressive. The players were bored and played a lot of poker. Not that elite teenage athletes need their egos stroked any more, but the whole AFLAC celebrity treatment is non-existent in Cape Cod.
3. The Under Armor event rightly comes in for special disdain because it is the only large, on-field event of which I am aware which basically sells you the "All-American" moniker. Under Armor as noted charges $799 plus sticks you with the whole travel bill -- air fare, hotel, meals, the works.
I am sure UA starts by seeking out the very best players in hopes they will attend and lend the event more cache. But when those don't accept, they move on down their lists, and they conveniently forget those who declined to participate. Also, this event has hundreds of players, compared to 38 at AFLAC and a comparable number at Cape Cod. So they have to dig pretty deep to get their desired level of participation. I know for a fact that many UA attendees are not regarded as Division I prospects. It's a cynical exploitation event if you ask me.
I suppose if you are deep down the list, and if you go in with your eyes wide open, there are worse things that can happen to your son than to have a fun baseball trip and come home with a plaque that calls him an All-American. He can be in his hometown paper and show it to his grandkids some day.
But the cheapening of the All-American label is unfortunate, and the reality is that among real baseball people, you're not fooling anybody.
I guess my deepest concern is for those who head out there genuinely believing they are being honored. They're basically being defrauded.
BF and Team One also join forces to run the annual Cape Cod High School Baseball Classic, and players who participate there are also labelled as "All-Americans".
I am basically in agreement with Infidel_08, but here's the rundown on the major "All-American" playing opportunities (as distinguished from mere lists that can be found in several additional places):
1. AFLAC-- not kissing up to PG or anything, but this is the real deal. I doubt very seriously that many kids have turned this one down over the years, save perhaps for injury. Actually even injured players tend to make this trip because it is such a genuine and outstanding total experience. Thus you don't see the issue with PG having to move further down the lists just to fill out rosters.
While you can always argue with the player selection decisions, there is NEVER any suggestion that the player must pay something or commit to something to participate in AFLAC. There is ZERO charge to the player for participation. Air fare, hotel and meals are also provided, along with an overwhelming amount of gear and other swag to take home at the end. Not to mention things like getting your picture taken with the annual event honorary chairman (Ozzie Smith this year!). The players get a week of being treated like celebrities, and their schedule is chock full of events both on the field and off.
2. Cape Cod Classic -- Baseball Factor and Team One want this event ultimately to rival the AFLAC game. It was a decent event, but to be honest, not remotely comparable to the AFLAC experience. The rosters did include several AA caliber players including a handful who also participated at AFLAC, plus a few others who have an argument for perhaps being as good as anybody you'll find anywhere. HOWEVER, we were personally aware of a large number of players roundly acknowledged as among the very top prospects who were invited and declined. There were also a substantial number of kids who accepted and then backed out at the last moment, which left BF/TO scrambling for replacements at the last minute. The replacements were good players but not AA caliber, IMHO.
Cape Cod charges no fee and provides hotel and meals for players plus a modest amount of swag. This leaves you handling your own air fare. Accommodations and field facilities were second rate. Attendance was meager. Events off the field were virtually non-existent, and those that did occur were unimpressive. The players were bored and played a lot of poker. Not that elite teenage athletes need their egos stroked any more, but the whole AFLAC celebrity treatment is non-existent in Cape Cod.
3. The Under Armor event rightly comes in for special disdain because it is the only large, on-field event of which I am aware which basically sells you the "All-American" moniker. Under Armor as noted charges $799 plus sticks you with the whole travel bill -- air fare, hotel, meals, the works.
I am sure UA starts by seeking out the very best players in hopes they will attend and lend the event more cache. But when those don't accept, they move on down their lists, and they conveniently forget those who declined to participate. Also, this event has hundreds of players, compared to 38 at AFLAC and a comparable number at Cape Cod. So they have to dig pretty deep to get their desired level of participation. I know for a fact that many UA attendees are not regarded as Division I prospects. It's a cynical exploitation event if you ask me.
I suppose if you are deep down the list, and if you go in with your eyes wide open, there are worse things that can happen to your son than to have a fun baseball trip and come home with a plaque that calls him an All-American. He can be in his hometown paper and show it to his grandkids some day.
But the cheapening of the All-American label is unfortunate, and the reality is that among real baseball people, you're not fooling anybody.
I guess my deepest concern is for those who head out there genuinely believing they are being honored. They're basically being defrauded.
shortstopmom,
I'm going to open another thread about cost-effective showcasing, because that topic deserves its own headline. Would you copy your advice to that thread?
I'm going to open another thread about cost-effective showcasing, because that topic deserves its own headline. Would you copy your advice to that thread?
TPM - We wouldn't have had him pitch at a showcase. We thought he may add value at the kind of small program he is likely to attend if he could do a little relief pitching, so we agreed to let him do it at the event.
Also, in our case, it was a UA "National" team. I guess it was national in the sense that young guys from around the nation really were there. They were good players, but I doubt that many of the best players were there.
Also, in our case, it was a UA "National" team. I guess it was national in the sense that young guys from around the nation really were there. They were good players, but I doubt that many of the best players were there.