I usually keep quiet on the web ... but teams be cautious. These events have been mediocre at the best, and that may be an overstatement to be honest, for a number of years. We were 15U last year during the weekend mentioned for the 15's but we attended an event at Butler University, wood bat, that was fantastic (not sure who put it on) so take a look around the web for some options before getting in to a mess.
Papajoe,

I'll bet you a hot cup of coffee that if you check with the teams who DID actually participate in any of the tournaments last year, you will find that all of them felt the tournaments were ran quite well and that we did everything possible to get all games in as scheduled.

The only issue we had last year was with the weather during 1 of the tournaments. The format did have to change some but even with that, we only lost a handful games throughout the entire weekend.

Sorry, if you've received bad information somewhere but don't trash a tournament that you obviously know nothing about and that you admit you haven't even been a part of participating in.
Attended in 2006. Where are your results from these events?

14U - $500 plus baseballs
15U - $525 plus baseballs
16U - $550 plus baseballs

NO guaranteed games on college fields which seems to be the norm these days and a great opportunity for the kids. Infosports and Eteamz have several better options for events including tournaments already scheduled at Ball State during your 14U event and the Midwest Championships at Butler University & University of Indianapolis (IE guaranteed games on college fields for the same price).

Your 15U event conflicts with another event at the Butler/Indianapolis location which is the event we went to last year with 25 other teams from around the region and, despite rain, played on two college fields, great high schools and had a great time.

Your 16U event conflicts with a 16U tourney in Ft. Wayne on college fields and the Midwest Championships in Indianapolis/Butler.

Check Eteamz and InfoSports on those. There are also tourneys in Ohio and Illinois at those times, on college fields, that have great reputations behind their events. All I'm saying is there are some great options out and we were one of quite a few that had a bad experience at the events you are advertising in the past. Also, how can you sell the possible "championship game" at Ball State when other events are already being hosted on their field? That should be interesting.
P.S. "The AAU INDIANA State Championships" being open to out of state teams? That makes sense... your 2009 Indiana State champions from ... Illinois or Ohio? Good idea.
PappaJoe - the 15U event at Butler University and University of Indianapolis was ours during 2008, glad to hear you enjoyed (sorry for the rain). We do in fact have the same age divisions as the dates above for 2009 at Butler University & University of Indianapolis:

June 18-21 (14U) - Butler/U of Indy
July 9-12 (15U) - Butler/U of Indy
July 2-5 (16U) - Butler/U of Indy

We do provide baseballs and guarantee games on the college fields as indicated. Hoosier Classic is who you are talking about from Ft. Wayne.

The 15U event last year had 23 teams from 5 different states, wood bat, and very competitive. The 14U event already has 6 or 7 teams from the Midwest attending and the 16U event had 14 or 15 teams in 2008 as we had an 18U division and had to stop taking teams to make sure teams were playing games on the college fields but it also had teams from IN, IL, MD, Canada, MO and MI in attendance.

Pastime Tournaments Website
BPA has just listed their tournaments, apparently today, and YES they do have priority and a direct connection to the BSU field since the PBA director here in Muncie is a public official with a lot of pull. That is why I clearly stated on our web site that "Ball State University or Anderson University may be used for Championship Sunday depending on availability of the field".

Obviously BSU will NOT be used now.... Anderson University is still an option, but if not, we will play at one of the local HS fields. Anderson University is usually available to us to use at our descretion. It was used for "Championship Sunday" in all 3 events we hosted last year. BSU was used the year before prior to BPA coming to town.

Regardless, on every weekend, tournaments are going to conflict with other tournaments. Some, may or may not offer the possibility of playing on a college field. It is totally up to each team to make their decision on where to play based on location, accommodations, price, competition, etc, etc, etc. I wish you luck in what ever tournament you do decide to play in.

As for the tournament being open to out of state teams, this is not my decision. It comes straight from AAU. If you don't like the rule, take it up with them. I'm sure they will value your opinion as much as I do.

I wish you the best of luck!!!
Last edited by sportsfan5
As for the conflicts with the Pastime Tournaments, what can I say, they are a large money making company and hosting tournaments across the country is their livelihood. They are not like a lot of tournament hosts who are doing it to try to help fund a summer for their players and keep the costs down for the parents. They do it to put money in the bank and their pockets. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it’s just not what our organization is all about.

We are a local travel organization that does do a pretty good job at hosting tournaments for the Indiana AAU. An organization that has been around for years and host some of the biggest and best ran National Tournaments in the country.

As for Pastimes tournaments being the same price as ours, you might want to check the gate fee that must be paid one month prior to the start of the tournaments.......A lot of tournaments are doing this and there may be nothing wrong with it. To me, it's just another way to raise the entry fee price to the teams. Rarely is this fee ever passed on to the parents the way a "Gate Fee" has typically been in the past. Gate fees are usually paid by the parents, not out of the team account.
Last edited by sportsfan5
quote:
An organization that has been around for years and host some of the biggest and best ran National Tournaments in the country.


AAU has taken such a huge nose dive because of the quality of the events they host over the past 5-7 years that they are hobbling just to call their "Nationals" a tournament! The 15U nationals had 24 teams and the 16U nationals had 8 teams .... those are pretty slim for a "national" and hardly what I would consider the "biggest and best" in the country. AAU is a joke.

Looks as though you are correct in that the Pastime group charges a gate fee for the events they host. I would pay the extra money to play on college fields and at least there is a notice of a gate fee on the site which is more than what most will do when they charge us at the gates. I wouldn't be opposed to paying this up front if it meant not paying every day when we arrive for games. The USSSA events we attended in Michigan in 2008 had the one time gate fee, it works out for the best and our parents preferred to pay that upfront ... you should check in to that for the events you are hosting on mediocre high school fields.

Lastly, I don't think you would be so defensive about all of this if you knew you had a quality product to offer players and teams. You've probably heard this all before I'm sure. Let the real tournament hosts run the events, those organizations do a pretty good job, better than the AAU events for sure.
quote:
Originally posted by PappaJoe:
Lastly, I don't think you would be so defensive about all of this if you knew you had a quality product to offer players and teams. You've probably heard this all before I'm sure. Let the real tournament hosts run the events, those organizations do a pretty good job, better than the AAU events for sure.


Actually Pappa, I take offense because I KNOW how hard we have worked and that we have tried to do things the right way. I do feel bad that you apparently had a bad experience at one of the tournaments we've hosted. I truly believe that your experience is the exception and not the rule where most teams are concerned. The overwhelming majority of coaches and parents that I have spoken with over the past couple years have commented how hard we worked to make sure the diamonds were groomed and lined before each game or how hard we worked to combat Mother Nature when she decided to rain on our day of games or how competitive the tournament was.

As for AAU not being what you want it to be or what it once was, there is nothing I can say or do about it except to say that they are not alone. My son's 13U team, about 4 years ago, won the USSSA Nationals. There were only either 8 or 10 teams in the tournament. Most of the "Old" sanctioning bodies have taken a hit from the new players in the game. Perhaps it's just me, but I liked it the way it used to be with AAU, USSSA, etc. The competition was good and the people running the tournaments were all in it for the right reasons. Back then, a travel team could host a tournament to help offset the player fees and try to keep the cost to the parents reasonable. Any more, it seems like there is a host of professional companies that are taking that option away from the private groups and teams. They are strictly in it for the money and really provide nothing for the kids. They are not building a "Team" or a "Facility" to give kids a place to play or work out of. They are not helping to fund a "Travel" program or putting the money they make to good use. The only kids benefiting from their profit are the kids whose last names happen to be the same as theirs. They take the money, put it in their pockets and run. I do not include PG in with this group. They are a "Professional" company, but they do at least provide a valuable service to the kids by helping to get their names out there. I also don't mind "Professional" companies who actually "own" a facility. They are, in my opion, building a location for kids to play and I realize that they do have to make money to keep the doors open. The other companies, like Pastime, ETS Sports, etc. are not doing anything but taking opportunities away from some of the older established organizations like AAU, USSSA, USTOC, etc. who, again, did if for the right reasons.

In my opinion, as right or wrong as it may be, is one of many things that are wrong with youth sports today. The professionals have taken it over. It's no longer about building something for the kids, it's about how much money can we put in our pockets.

I'll get off my soap box now. Again, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with our tournament. I promise you we did do the best we could to accommodate every team that played. It will be no different with this year's tournaments. We will do the best we can because we care about the sport and the kids. We're not doing it just to line our personal pockets.

Again, good luck playing in tournaments ran by the "real tournament hosts".
Last edited by sportsfan5
If I may ... I'm not one to comment on such conversations but I would like to throw in my two cents. Smile

quote:
Any more, it seems like there is a host of professional companies that are taking that option away from the private groups and teams. They are strictly in it for the money and really provide nothing for the kids. They are not building a "Team" or a "Facility" to give kids a place to play or work out of. They are not helping to fund a "Travel" program or putting the money they make to good use. The only kids benefiting from their profit are the kids whose last names happen to be the same as theirs. They take the money, put it in their pockets and run.


Surely you don't really feel this way about programs paying for baseballs ($20K+), putting players and teams on quality college fields across the country (fields run anywhere from $1K-$4500+/event) instead of playing every game on high school fields, this in return putting the older players in front of college coaches that may have otherwise never have been seen by (wish I had a count on the number of players signing with schools from our events for you but I don't keep track), and ultimately seeing the faces on players' faces when they run out on to a division 1 facility for the first time to play a baseball game which we all love to watch.

I started Pastime in 2005 to provide better tournaments than what were currently being done. I was approached by colleges in attendance to put our events on at their place so they could see players because of the quality competition and how well the events were ran. From there we have grown in to what we are now but please tell me why I need a "facility" to be "professional" and why a facility or a travel team would make us any better. Several of my guys are HS coaches, gave up better paying opportunities to run tournaments and watch the game they love, know that we have turned down opportunities to sell Pastime (for more money than a few young guys could ask for), and I personally gave up a career offer to be behind a desk with normal hours (not the 16+ hours/day we put in now to give teams and players what they deserve) and a salary. No sir. I started Pastime Tournaments, the only place we are going is around the country where teams and schools want our tournaments, and if I'm in it for the money someone owes me a check.

quote:
I do not include PG in with this group. They are a "Professional" company, but they do at least provide a valuable service to the kids by helping to get their names out there. I also don't mind "Professional" companies who actually "own" a facility. They are, in my opion, building a location for kids to play and I realize that they do have to make money to keep the doors open. The other companies, like Pastime, ETS Sports, etc. are not doing anything but taking opportunities away from some of the older established organizations like AAU, USSSA, USTOC, etc. who, again, did if for the right reasons.


PG runs a great program. I hope we have as much success as they do. Surely I am taking the latter of this message out of context as it sounds as though some organizations are permitted to make a profit and others are not for some reason. If I made more money perhaps I would start an indoor facility so I can become "professional" that way your dictionary describes it. Furthermore, we are providing opportunities to many more teams/organizations/parents and players than we could ever even consider taking from them! Then again, we don't have a facility so we aren't doing it for the right reasons and since those of us that aren't as old as the sanctioning bodies described that charge teams just to be sanctioned by them we must just be in it for the money.

quote:
In my opinion, as right or wrong as it may be, is one of many things that are wrong with youth sports today. The professionals have taken it over. It's no longer about building something for the kids, it's about how much money can we put in our pockets.


I don't see anything wrong with your organization or any other running a tournament. I don't care if you run them on the same weekends that we are running ours. However, wouldn't you want "professionals" running the events that you attend so you know what you are getting, you know that they are going to be quality tournaments, and you know (for the older divisions) that the added benefit of being seen by colleges and playing on collegiate fields is a way to prepare our young players for what is to come? That is "building something for the kids" isn't it. Building something doesn't have to be a physical structure. What we have built is an organization that strives to provide players/teams the best opportunity to compete on quality fields, against top quality teams, and receive the attention they deserve whether it be from our staff or scouts.

As a side note, to the gate fee reference, we took a poll from 100% of the teams attending our events over the past couple of years and they preferred to build the cost of the gate fees in to the cost of the tournament and then simply allow the parents to pay before attending. Passing it off to the parents when they get to the tournament is no different than charging a gate fee upfront, that we put back in to the fields for improvements, so long as teams are aware of the fee which in our case is posted at the top of the site (and has been since 2006).

Good luck to the Cardinals in your efforts, as well as PappaJoe, as I am sure you will be successful in what you do.
Well said. Unfortunately for some of the older sanctioning bodies they peaked a long time ago and like any business competitors come in to play and in some cases "out with the old and in with the new" is the best case scenario.

I believe the site above indicated that they are looking for 24 teams to attend these tournaments in Muncie, heaven forbid 24 teams get ripped off from this but still...

24x$550 = $13,200 in income for the event.

*24 teams is an odd number for a 4 game guarantee pool play event considering you would need 4 pools of 6 which means some teams don't play each other in that pool (again, amateur in design).

Say there are 24 scammed teams and 50 games to finish this event. That would likely come close to $5000 for umpires. Teams still have to pay for their own baseballs, a fee to be sanctioned by aau/caba/usssa, parents have to dig in to their pockets daily for gate (which typically becomes cheaper with the one time fee for a team) and play on mediocre high school fields at best.

$8,200 is left over from your income ... some of that will go to insurance, field costs (which for high schools won't be nearly as much as the college fields everyone else is using now).

So call it $7000-7500 in profit from one event for your organization. Three of these events would give you guys a huge bank roll right. Your teams should be professional and have an in door facility named after you in no time. You better not keep any of that money for yourself for doing the work though because that would be wrong! Do it for the kids and donate it to a sports charity (boys and girls club of america) so your conscience doesn't eat at you at night.

Mr. Sportsfan5 ... you are coming off as one sly dog trying to degrade and attack programs that are better than yours. The events in Indianapolis are first class, second to very few if any, and still cheaper than organizations that put a product on the diamond that is embarrassing to see. AAU should be ashamed to be associated with your organization and I hope they look in to your lack of professionalism!

I congratulate Pastime and the other organizations that put forth the effort to bring quality events to Indiana. Great venues, umpires, and professionalism will carry you far and we (parents/coaches/teams) will continue to support your efforts as the results are paramount in what you are doing.
AAU/CABA/USSSA, these sanctioning bodies are the way to go, for the most part, for 8-13U programs. The 14-18/19U brackets have really made a push to prep our sons for the next level and those sanctioning bodies haven't a clue on what is needed and what it takes in order to do that and neither do the "mom n' pop" tournament hosts for the most part. We attend with the "big boys" that host events across the country. The AAU state championships are a joke and don't mean squat.
The sanctioned events aren't even worth talking about. These are given to people that usually have no business running tournaments and they are used by the tournament hosts to try and draw teams to the events. Without the sanctioning name they would have no tournament and because the sanctioned events' (USSSA, CABA, AAU) "National" tournaments are such a joke they use these local "state" tournaments as a way to increase the number of teams paying the sanctioning fees to pad their pockets. The Perfect Game and Pastime Tournament groups of the country are, should, and will continue to put on the best quality events for the best prices even if they are more expensive.

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