I wonder how many of the 2009 College Signees have been axed asked/encourged not to come to their perspective college for "whatever" reason? 
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I heard about one that should be near and dear to your heart ---- to BU's benefit!
That stinks! You would that would be a potential red flag for 2010 recruits but it if it is a big enough program they can probably do it without suffering any backlash.
I am aware of one Big 12 recruit that is not going where he signed, not sure of the circumstances to know all the reasons why, I believe he is headed to a JUCO.
I am aware of one Big 12 recruit that is not going where he signed, not sure of the circumstances to know all the reasons why, I believe he is headed to a JUCO.
The scholarship situation at D1 schools gets trickier as the number of players with awards is reduced from 30 to 27. Not only does a team have to stay under the 11.7 limit but they need to reduce three partial scholarships (or not replace departed scholarships). Even if a team has money left at this time of the year, they may not have scholarhips to give (25% minimum, including academic $). Every D1 team will have at least 8 baseball "walk-ons", increasing the importance of academic money. In those cases, a kid cannot be granted an academic scholly wihout meeting the criteria available to all other students at the school.
When kids are "released" or whateverthebestword....the schools are not only freeing up money (impacting the 11.7) but a scholarship position as well (impacting the 27). It's interesting because there may be equal benefit in releasing a kid on 40% as it is to let go a kid on 25%.
I have heard....haven't confirmed...in some states (Georgia and LA, I think?) -- in-state students that meet certain criteria receive money from the state. Their local kids can walk on and have very affordable education. Those programs can chase the best kids in the country with bigger money. This seems like an unfair advantage to me.
Another issue that remains mysterious is where kids can go once they are released. I'm pretty sure a freshman that never goes to a school and is released can go to another D1 without penalty. It seems gray in some circumstances.
When kids are "released" or whateverthebestword....the schools are not only freeing up money (impacting the 11.7) but a scholarship position as well (impacting the 27). It's interesting because there may be equal benefit in releasing a kid on 40% as it is to let go a kid on 25%.
I have heard....haven't confirmed...in some states (Georgia and LA, I think?) -- in-state students that meet certain criteria receive money from the state. Their local kids can walk on and have very affordable education. Those programs can chase the best kids in the country with bigger money. This seems like an unfair advantage to me.
Another issue that remains mysterious is where kids can go once they are released. I'm pretty sure a freshman that never goes to a school and is released can go to another D1 without penalty. It seems gray in some circumstances.
quote:Originally posted by collikar:
I wonder how many of the 2009 College Signees have beenaxedasked/encourged not to come to their perspective college for "whatever" reason?
Colicutie....
How could you be starting a new post when I am up to my ears in BLEACH and HAIR DYE! Haven't got a call from any parents yet? Some might be arriving early to college.
Burg just told us that he was going to miss hearing you in the stands .....guess you did't think anyone was listening.....wrong! You added a sound to our games that will ring in all our hearts forever...Thank you for that!
I know ....I know ....off topic...too tired to call! Will learn to text so I wont have to hi-jack HSB posts. (Gee I feel somewhat criminal...sorta like a tea party)
quote:Originally posted by Panther Dad:
The scholarship situation at D1 schools gets trickier as the number of players with awards is reduced from 30 to 27.
PD - I hear what you are saying but didn't the schools know these reductions were coming before they recruited the 2009's? Seems like they should have factored the adjustments into their recruiting and not signed as many. Unless there is a major injury or something of that nature, I don't understand why you would un-invite a recruit before he has reported to the school.
CS -- I agree with you -- just commenting on the challenges of recruiting with the new rules -- and you're right -- they're not so new, other than the annual adjustments.
In my opinion, when they un-invite a recruit, there is usually an unexpected circumstance. Sometimes juniors don't sign and decide to return, etc.
In my opinion, when they un-invite a recruit, there is usually an unexpected circumstance. Sometimes juniors don't sign and decide to return, etc.
quote:Originally posted by Panther Dad:
I heard about one that should be near and dear to your heart ---- to BU's benefit!
So is this common knowledge? And if so who now is going to Baylor?
So, what is being said is that Colleges over-extend offering scholarships because some of their expected draftees don't get drafted, thus no scholarship money.
So my next question would be, do these big instituitions tell their signees that they might have to renig on the contract if all their players aren't drafted? Or, do they tell them they would be better off at a Juco level/no longer see them as a contributor?
I also wonder how many times the college saw the player in game situations prior to releasing/encouraging them to move on.
So my next question would be, do these big instituitions tell their signees that they might have to renig on the contract if all their players aren't drafted? Or, do they tell them they would be better off at a Juco level/no longer see them as a contributor?
I also wonder how many times the college saw the player in game situations prior to releasing/encouraging them to move on.
This has been happening for ever. It is usually due to a coach having excess stock at position. A coach may have found a better player in his opinion. He may in fact be doing you a favor in the long run. It is better than letting you sit and being cut, having to sit a year and then trying to find a new college. It happens to some high profile players.
quote:He may in fact be doing you a favor in the long run. It is better than letting you sit and being cut, having to sit a year and then trying to find a new college.
If it were done in June, I would agree. But if the coach is doing this in the middle of August, it sure doesn't give the player many options when school starts in 2 weeks.
I know of one Big 12 signee (not with Baylor) who was asked to de-commit in the spring of his senior year. He had signed an NLI the previous November, but was asked to go to a JUCO instead. Apparently, the recruiting coordinator had seen him at a high school practice and was not impressed with his skills. Although the signee (and his family) was devastated at the time, perhaps the school did him a favor in that I'm not sure he would have seen any playing time had he ended up at the Big 12 program. This summer, he played on a decent, but not outstanding, college woodbat team and had the next to lowest BA.
Although it was a nasty thing to do especially that late it would be worse if he went and sat and was given no opportunity.
Very important not to close any doors. Hopefully another college was recruiting him and had an opening. My son didn't sign until August and scrambled to get everything in order. We were prepare to wait a year if we didn't get the offer we wanted. His first choice didn't happen so we worked his second choice.
Very important not to close any doors. Hopefully another college was recruiting him and had an opening. My son didn't sign until August and scrambled to get everything in order. We were prepare to wait a year if we didn't get the offer we wanted. His first choice didn't happen so we worked his second choice.
What schools and what players are involved?
quote:Originally posted by PAW-FECT: (Gee I feel somewhat criminal...sorta like a tea party)
Nothing criminal about 2009 tea party demonstrations.
Bill of Rights
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
No matter the reason, unless the kid made a mistake, didn't meet requirements, etc. , it's wrong!!!! If the kid signs the school should honor it. If coach and AD can't do math they should be fired....
Papa they will honor the commitment but he probably will be on the bench and no offer next year. He would have to sit out a year if he transfered to another D1. His choice.
Since I'm no longer in the HSBBW loop... can someone fill me in via PM?
quote:Originally posted by cheapseats:quote:Originally posted by Panther Dad:
The scholarship situation at D1 schools gets trickier as the number of players with awards is reduced from 30 to 27.
PD - I hear what you are saying but didn't the schools know these reductions were coming before they recruited the 2009's? Seems like they should have factored the adjustments into their recruiting and not signed as many. Unless there is a major injury or something of that nature, I don't understand why you would un-invite a recruit before he has reported to the school.
Cheapy... you have a PM
My question is why don't parents and players do their homework and steer clear of schools that have a reputation for doing this? From what I hear through the grapevine, its the same schools over and over that do this (the two I hear about most even wear the same colors)
I've got a few years before it affects mine but I'm going to try to be educated about which coaches have no problem negatively affecting my sons future. Doing this allows them to be bad recruiters, basically. "We'll sign a kid to an LOI and then if we find out he's not as good as we thought, we'll cut/release/tell him he won't play-go somewhere else." Now my son is stuck with very few options.
This bugs me because there are no ramifications for the coach. It sounds like most on this board are OK with it. I'm not. If the coach is up front with us and tells us this might happen, great. We'll probably sign somewhere else. But if he makes a commitment to my son through an LOI I expect him to honor it.
I at least want to be educated about which coaches have no problem cutting kids - that's what it is - because the coach changes their mind a month before school. That's not who I want my kid playing for and learning from. Part of the problem is that the honest college coach doesn't want to negative recruit so they won't mention names of colleges with a reputation for this. Therefore, it's up to us to spread the news to each other.
I've got a few years before it affects mine but I'm going to try to be educated about which coaches have no problem negatively affecting my sons future. Doing this allows them to be bad recruiters, basically. "We'll sign a kid to an LOI and then if we find out he's not as good as we thought, we'll cut/release/tell him he won't play-go somewhere else." Now my son is stuck with very few options.
This bugs me because there are no ramifications for the coach. It sounds like most on this board are OK with it. I'm not. If the coach is up front with us and tells us this might happen, great. We'll probably sign somewhere else. But if he makes a commitment to my son through an LOI I expect him to honor it.
I at least want to be educated about which coaches have no problem cutting kids - that's what it is - because the coach changes their mind a month before school. That's not who I want my kid playing for and learning from. Part of the problem is that the honest college coach doesn't want to negative recruit so they won't mention names of colleges with a reputation for this. Therefore, it's up to us to spread the news to each other.
I at least want to be educated about which coaches have no problem cutting kids - that's what it is - because the coach changes their mind a month before school. That's not who I want my kid playing for and learning from. Part of the problem is that the honest college coach doesn't want to negative recruit so they won't mention names of colleges with a reputation for this. Therefore, it's up to us to spread the news to each other.[/QUOTE]
I assume that school names aren't being mentioned in order to protect the signee? I understand if that is the case. However, ty has a valid point here. It does seem that it would be useable information to know which schools use this practice on a regular basis. We could then use that informaton for our future decisions.
I assume that school names aren't being mentioned in order to protect the signee? I understand if that is the case. However, ty has a valid point here. It does seem that it would be useable information to know which schools use this practice on a regular basis. We could then use that informaton for our future decisions.
In my opinion, no one here is "ok" with it. But as much as we hate to admit it, the colleges hold all the cards. Most of us think, "this won't happen to my kid." This isn't a new thing. As some have said, the schools will honor the annual scholarship and the kid risks losing a year of eligibility.
For every school that is "called out" here, there will be many that support them because of good experiences with their kid. If you have concerns, you may want to discuss them with the organizations or HS coaches, who deal directly with the recruiting coordinators.
For every school that is "called out" here, there will be many that support them because of good experiences with their kid. If you have concerns, you may want to discuss them with the organizations or HS coaches, who deal directly with the recruiting coordinators.
Texas A&M has done it at least twice in the past 2-3 years.
quote:Originally posted by Panther Dad:
In my opinion, no one here is "ok" with it. But as much as we hate to admit it, the colleges hold all the cards. Most of us think, "this won't happen to my kid." This isn't a new thing. As some have said, the schools will honor the annual scholarship and the kid risks losing a year of eligibility.
For every school that is "called out" here, there will be many that support them because of good experiences with their kid. If you have concerns, you may want to discuss them with the organizations or HS coaches, who deal directly with the recruiting coordinators.
Good suggestion PD. I think the select organizations will tell you (off the record) about the schools your son is thinking about attending. High School coaches (I think) would be hit and miss. Some care about where the kids go to college and help them out and others could care less.
While certainly parents need to understand all they can about a Program their son is considering, I'd say the best way to do that is to accumulate facts and address those facts head on with the coach of the respective program.
Often outsiders don't have a full appreciation of the nature, tone, or timing of conversations between a coach and recruit/parents and, I believe, it's easy for that conversation to be misinterpreted or misunderstood by outsiders as they get the info second hand. I'm not trying to absolve any specific program or coach as I know from experience that many coaches are very poor communicators and may not have effectively discussed a situation with the recruit/parents. However, I'd suggest 2nd hand parties aren't generally going to know which is the case without addressing directly with the coaches and then filtering their responses to see if they pass the reasonableness test.
Often outsiders don't have a full appreciation of the nature, tone, or timing of conversations between a coach and recruit/parents and, I believe, it's easy for that conversation to be misinterpreted or misunderstood by outsiders as they get the info second hand. I'm not trying to absolve any specific program or coach as I know from experience that many coaches are very poor communicators and may not have effectively discussed a situation with the recruit/parents. However, I'd suggest 2nd hand parties aren't generally going to know which is the case without addressing directly with the coaches and then filtering their responses to see if they pass the reasonableness test.
quote:In my opinion, no one here is "ok" with it. But as much as we hate to admit it, the colleges hold all the cards. Most of us think, "this won't happen to my kid." This isn't a new thing. As some have said, the schools will honor the annual scholarship and the kid risks losing a year of eligibility.
For every school that is "called out" here, there will be many that support them because of good experiences with their kid. If you have concerns, you may want to discuss them with the organizations or HS coaches, who deal directly with the recruiting coordinators
Well put. It can happen to anyone and most coaches could be capable of doing it.
You just got engaged to a great girl and gave her a $10,000 ring.
A movie queen meets you and can't live without you. Most bets are you're asking for the ring back.
I need a PM telling me who were talking about.
Can you say "Service Academies"? Full ride and no take backs.... 
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Yup and I can also say military commitment .
Hmmm....
Second hand may be the only way to fnd out. I mean, who goes out and talks to coaches of organizations other then your own?
I have great second hand knowledge of Oklahoma, Arkansas, A & M, and Tech (of which I'm a HUGE supporter) telling kids to go elsewhere this past month. These may all be great programs, but it doesn't change the fact that they have encouraged players to which they made committments to find an alternative program.
I like what tymiller had to say about it being up to us to spread the news. And up to the recruits to do their homework.
Second hand may be the only way to fnd out. I mean, who goes out and talks to coaches of organizations other then your own?
I have great second hand knowledge of Oklahoma, Arkansas, A & M, and Tech (of which I'm a HUGE supporter) telling kids to go elsewhere this past month. These may all be great programs, but it doesn't change the fact that they have encouraged players to which they made committments to find an alternative program.
I like what tymiller had to say about it being up to us to spread the news. And up to the recruits to do their homework.
Robert S.
Did you see USA Today last week and FORBES ranking of the Top 10 Universities in the U.S.?
Did you see USA Today last week and FORBES ranking of the Top 10 Universities in the U.S.?
quote:Originally posted by Robert S.:
Can you say "Service Academies"? Full ride and no take backs....
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
See DM topic with specific information related to my 1st post in this thread. Despite having accurate information, I have no knowledge of the specifics of this situation. I'll root for the kid, except perhaps when he plays against Mizzou. PS III got his big brother out (must have been a changeup). 
Nice set of friends headed to Baylor.
Nice set of friends headed to Baylor.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Yup and I can also say military commitment .
Expected Canadian response.
Yup and I can also say military commitment .
Expected Canadian response.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bball71tx:
Robert S.
Did you see USA Today last week and FORBES ranking of the Top 10 Universities in the U.S.?[QUOTE]Originally posted by Robert S.:
Can you say "Service Academies"? Full ride and no take backs....
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
____________________________________________________
Yes I did.
Robert S.
Did you see USA Today last week and FORBES ranking of the Top 10 Universities in the U.S.?[QUOTE]Originally posted by Robert S.:
Can you say "Service Academies"? Full ride and no take backs....
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
____________________________________________________
Yes I did.
Actually I support the war on terrorism.
So you are quite wrong.
My response is that you implied there was no cost to the full ride at a military service colleges.
So you are quite wrong.
My response is that you implied there was no cost to the full ride at a military service colleges.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
My response is that you implied there was no cost to the full ride at a military service colleges.
For many who accept the call to one of our military service academies the commitment to our country is not viewed as a cost. It is a mission they accept to serve and defend our country. God bless these young men.
It is the same here but not everyone wants a military career.
I lost friends in Viet Nam and attended a funeral a month ago for a local guy and brother of a friend . 2 of my friends joined the Marines and one was killed. He was an outstanding BB player named Mel Suthons.
I find RS statement an insult based in ignorance. We have our anti war guys just like you. The US made a big thing about Canada not supporting the invasion of Iraq. If the majority of Canadians didn't support the war our guys wouldn't be there.
I lost friends in Viet Nam and attended a funeral a month ago for a local guy and brother of a friend . 2 of my friends joined the Marines and one was killed. He was an outstanding BB player named Mel Suthons.
I find RS statement an insult based in ignorance. We have our anti war guys just like you. The US made a big thing about Canada not supporting the invasion of Iraq. If the majority of Canadians didn't support the war our guys wouldn't be there.
"A statement of ignorance eh"?
And it usually takes people getting to know me before they see my ignorance.
Oh, and how would you know what I "implied"? My original comment was in jest, hence the smiley face.
And it usually takes people getting to know me before they see my ignorance.
Oh, and how would you know what I "implied"? My original comment was in jest, hence the smiley face.
My original comment was also in jest. 
Why don't we leave the political discussions for other boards?
As for the subject on hand....
I'm going to play devils advocate prefaced by the statement that in no way do I support any university withdrawing their offer. I also speak of no first hand knowledge on any examples of such.
But.......
Let's assume coaching at the college level is a job. We all know these guys love the game, but would they do what they do if they couldn't feed their families too?
Now, like most jobs, employees are expected to perform. If you don't produce, you most likely run the risk of losing your job. Can we assume the same for a college coach? I think so. Especially at the major college level.
So a coach evaluates a kid and extends a scholarship offer around the summer of his junior year. Most likely, the coach did so by seeing the kid play no more than 3-5 times during the summer and speaking with HS/Summer ball coaches about the player. Rumor is the kid is a great player as shown by the HS stats. College coach extends the offer knowing surely there will be more offers warranted for the reputation the player carries.
Player gives a verbal and later signs with said college.
Fast forward..........
Senior year of HS and into summer baseball. College coach comes out to see kid and notices a different approach in kids game. Also, coach doesn't see same skills shown the year prior. Attitude displayed is concerning.
Player is contacted by soon to be college coach with concern on what he saw. Player acknowledges it yet doesn't take the words of advice into his next few games. Coach sees same effort and performance.
By now, there is rumor a player has popped up out of nowhere that plays the same position as the recruit above. The opportunity to sign him is there for the coach.
Now...............you make the call. You be the coach. Remember, as a college coach your ability to take care of your family comes from the success of your program.
Should get interesting regards,
As for the subject on hand....
I'm going to play devils advocate prefaced by the statement that in no way do I support any university withdrawing their offer. I also speak of no first hand knowledge on any examples of such.
But.......
Let's assume coaching at the college level is a job. We all know these guys love the game, but would they do what they do if they couldn't feed their families too?
Now, like most jobs, employees are expected to perform. If you don't produce, you most likely run the risk of losing your job. Can we assume the same for a college coach? I think so. Especially at the major college level.
So a coach evaluates a kid and extends a scholarship offer around the summer of his junior year. Most likely, the coach did so by seeing the kid play no more than 3-5 times during the summer and speaking with HS/Summer ball coaches about the player. Rumor is the kid is a great player as shown by the HS stats. College coach extends the offer knowing surely there will be more offers warranted for the reputation the player carries.
Player gives a verbal and later signs with said college.
Fast forward..........
Senior year of HS and into summer baseball. College coach comes out to see kid and notices a different approach in kids game. Also, coach doesn't see same skills shown the year prior. Attitude displayed is concerning.
Player is contacted by soon to be college coach with concern on what he saw. Player acknowledges it yet doesn't take the words of advice into his next few games. Coach sees same effort and performance.
By now, there is rumor a player has popped up out of nowhere that plays the same position as the recruit above. The opportunity to sign him is there for the coach.
Now...............you make the call. You be the coach. Remember, as a college coach your ability to take care of your family comes from the success of your program.
Should get interesting regards,