2012 LLWS

I'm sure that I'm in the minority, but I like the LLWS, even with its many faults. They really do need to bite the bullet and move to a 50/70 diamond. However, I can't imagine any baseball fan not enjoying themselves at Williamsport.

Now, for my rip... what is the story with that Warner Robins team??? How can they possibly win their district and state every year?! Just doesn't pass the sniff test.

The LLWS is a great venue with a great atmosphere. However the game needs to be moved to 50/75 to allow for leadoffs and easier double play attempts which would cut down the number of pitches needed to get outs. The 46/60/215 configuration for these players resembles more of a pinball game than a baseball game.

Just like the Olympics I think we need to send the best U.S. teams in these tournaments such as USSSA, Triple Crown and the like.

Regardless of LL flaws my son and I always watch these games. Have been since he started playing baseball. I just can't not watch

My biggest gripe with these games is the strike zone. The kids have no chance at hitting a ball a foot off the plate.

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"The 46/60/215 configuration for these players resembles more of a pinball game than a baseball game."

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I have been watching the regionals. Always do. However, it is way past time that LL Intl. increase the field dimensions. Most of these LL kids are playing 50/70 on thier travel ball teams anyway. These kids could certaily play those dimensions and you would see much better baseball, imo.

LL rules are certainly in favor of the pitcher with respects to lead offs, etc. A good friend of mine has his son play in a local LL for that exact reason. They play in the local LL so his son does not have to worry about kids stealing on him, says it lets his son focus on the pitch selection and location...

I do enjoy watching the kids play in the LLWS on TV. Does anyone know if the PONY WS is televised?

MidAtDad,
My personal experience is that it takes a strong talent base along with a knowledge of how to get around the rules and usually a district that will look the other way. In this particular case the league was ordered to split into two leagues and split into two areas, one of which had too small a population base too support a league, then waived the kids from that area back into the original league. It was pretty blatant. As is fairly often the case after they won the national championship they were forced to split the league for real and stopped being competitive within the district. That cut down the number of players who came into the league and they eventually were able to join together again but never had the same talent level.

Obviously, I have no knowledge of Warner-Robbins whatsoever, but as noted the year a team from our area won the national championship several of the district's leagues had protested their shennanigans well before the all-star season but the district made a conscious decision to look the other way. On the other hand, you can work around the rules all you want and if the talent isn't there it isn't going to happen. People will move into an area that has a strong reputation just to give their kids a shot at playing in the LLWS.

I believe LL is currently having some American LL's trial 50/70 open bases. It's the process they go through before making across the board changes.

If you've been to Williamsport you know deeping outfields will be a big job. It will involve digging into a major hillside at Lamade (wonder if there's an environmental issue) and reconstructing access to Lamade based on the walkway behind rightfield of Volunteer Stadium that is already up against the woods.

Regardless of the rules the LLWS is the Disneyland of youth baseball. It's a big party. Everyone is having fun. We would make two or three day trips each year when my son was 9-12.

When my son was nine, on our first trip we sat down and immediately a foul ball was hit right at him. It was souvenir number one. After seeing kids get on tv he bet me he would get on tv our next trip. He made the following sign:

The Vet: $30
Hall of Fame: $10
LLWS: free
Playing baseball: priceless

I got on tv when Dugout gave me a lap dance. All I said was "You really better be a woman in there." It was at the game where the Vista, CA kid struck out eighteen. We were in the front rooowwwwwww!

I have a hard time believing 12-13 y/o consistently throwing mid 60's and sometimes hitting 70. Anyone else?

quote:

Originally posted by LAball:
I have a hard time believing 12-13 y/o consistently throwing mid 60's and sometimes hitting 70. Anyone else?

My son was throwing mid upper 60's when he was 12 playing LL All Stars. One of the dads had a Jugs at the tournament. Not that unusual.

To the American public, the LLWS is a national shrine. ESPN helps build that brand. I like the LLWS idea, but don't like their execution.

My sons call it the "Curve Ball World Series". We watched a little last night as CT defeated NH. CT had their ace on the mound with an 11-0 lead in the 6th inning, and kept him in the game after a CT kid hit a grand slam to go up 15-0. CT kept the pitcher in the bottom of the 6th until he went to his max pitch limit, and had to leave. We were trying to figure out "why" they kept him in, but then our attention got diverted to dessert.

To those of us who know better, there is much better youth baseball being played everyday. Something that resembles real baseball with real strike zones and real distances. LL will have my full attention (and advertising revenue) if they can make the game (somewhat) resemble real baseball. I'm just not that interested in watching kids hit baseballs over a wiffle ball fence. C'mon man!

quote:

LAball said....I have a hard time believing 12-13 y/o consistently throwing mid 60's and sometimes hitting 70. Anyone else?

Nope. I have a real EASY time believing it.

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"...but then our attention got diverted to dessert."

When you go through all of the effort to make such an eye catching strawberry shortcake it was nice of you to invite over some of your neighbors.






.

My son and I can't help ourselves. We have to watch.

Last night during the Hawaii No Cal game I made some smart comment about appeals re runners not touching the bag never work. Go figure. What a way to lose a game. Guess the 3rd baseman should get MVP for telling the coach.

My son participated in the LLWS in 2005. He pitched all the way up through the regionals. Once we got to the World Series they wanted the boys to throw curveballs. At that point, my son bowed out of pitching (this is when they were still throwing to many of them in a game). My son went from 5'7" to 6'5" and is still pitching with out an arm injury. I can't say that for the other boys on the team who pitched.

With apologies to Jonathan Swift, I have a modest proposal as to how a Little League program can comepte at the breaking ball happy LLWS without risk of ruining any of their pitchers' baseball future.

What you do, is at 9, 10, 11 years old you take a special group of players with a particular phyical trait, and teach them wicked curve balls, sliders, all the arm-killing nasty junk that wins games in Williamsport. Shamelessly, to the point that Dr. Andrews would come after you with a scalpel if he knew what you were doing...

And then you get to Williamsport, your pitchers will dominate. And the physical trait that sets them apart from other players is this; a vagina.

At 12-13, girls aren't much different phyically from boys. They're probably better learners at that age, and might even be better crafty soft-tossers than boys. Yeah, there's a change coming, but the LLWS gives them a window of opportunity to compete on an even field with the boys - before testosterone and HGH changes everything.

And you're not risking their baseball future, because they don't HAVE baseball futures. Sure there are international tournaments for grown women off in foreign lands, but no one pays attention to that. The highest profile baseball event female players truly have access to is the LLWS. This is thieir biggest stage. They're not going to take the next step and be high schoolers off to showcases and travel ball. At best, they'll be the secret weapons when a school needs a clutch forfeit win against a fundamentalist religious cult school - and you don't need a healthy UCL for that.

These boys at the LLWS are going to be trying to figure out girls' junk for the rest of their lives. Might as well start on the diamond.

Well, that was weird.

Biggerpapi....you started it. Were you expecting....and "now for something completely different?"

I started it with the intention of congratulating LL on adding the new rule. I didn't expect vaginas to be part of the conversation!

We've been to Williamsport several times to watch the LLWS and always had a great time. One thing you can say about Little League is that it is introducing the sport of baseball into many countries. And, you have to start somewhere. Yes, 12 years old is probably the time to have them on a larger field and playing closer to the real rules.

So, a few years ago they moved the fences back and now put in the dropped third strike. Maybe larger field dimensions are in the near future? (Or drop the age limit for the LL division and move the 12 year olds into Juniors.)

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
I started it with the intention of congratulating LL on adding the new rule. I didn't expect vaginas to be part of the conversation!

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
I started it with the intention of congratulating LL on adding the new rule. I didn't expect vaginas to be part of the conversation!

I know "s****r" isn't allowed here, but I thought "vagina" was OK.

And it was a satirical spotlight on two issues - the awkward position of women in baseball, and that it might be a little preposterous to have a gobal Championship event for pre-pubescents.

Awkward just about sums it up...

quote:

Originally posted by LAball:
I have a hard time believing 12-13 y/o consistently throwing mid 60's and sometimes hitting 70. Anyone else?

We had several kids in our LL throwing mid 60's. One on my team threw mid 70's. He threw a no hitter in regions ... 15 K's, 5 hbp, 6 bb's. Not one ball got out of the infield. My son's arms would be black and blue after catching him from blocking pitches.

quote:

Originally posted by FNL:
With apologies to Jonathan Swift, I have a modest proposal as to how a Little League program can comepte at the breaking ball happy LLWS without risk of ruining any of their pitchers' baseball future.

What you do, is at 9, 10, 11 years old you take a special group of players with a particular phyical trait, and teach them wicked curve balls, sliders, all the arm-killing nasty junk that wins games in Williamsport. Shamelessly, to the point that Dr. Andrews would come after you with a scalpel if he knew what you were doing...

And then you get to Williamsport, your pitchers will dominate. And the physical trait that sets them apart from other players is this; a vagina.

At 12-13, girls aren't much different phyically from boys. They're probably better learners at that age, and might even be better crafty soft-tossers than boys. Yeah, there's a change coming, but the LLWS gives them a window of opportunity to compete on an even field with the boys - before testosterone and HGH changes everything.

And you're not risking their baseball future, because they don't HAVE baseball futures. Sure there are international tournaments for grown women off in foreign lands, but no one pays attention to that. The highest profile baseball event female players truly have access to is the LLWS. This is thieir biggest stage. They're not going to take the next step and be high schoolers off to showcases and travel ball. At best, they'll be the secret weapons when a school needs a clutch forfeit win against a fundamentalist religious cult school - and you don't need a healthy UCL for that.

These boys at the LLWS are going to be trying to figure out girls' junk for the rest of their lives. Might as well start on the diamond.

A little bit of truth mixed in with some wierdness.

I haven't watch the LLWS this year but if there are girls on some teams then there are boys that won't get a chance at this national stage because the girls, who have no future in this sport, took their spot.

You don't have to figure out girl's junk the rest of your life. You just have to grow a pair and be the man of the family.

quote:

Originally posted by FNL:
I know "s****r" isn't allowed here, but I thought "vagina" was OK.

And it was a satirical spotlight on two issues - the awkward position of women in baseball, and that it might be a little preposterous to have a gobal Championship event for pre-pubescents.

I appreciate your thoughts and relatively unique perspective, which isn't unusual around here, so don't take what I say as anything other than "another opinion"

Girls with talent in the baseball area will ultimately play softball. We all know that. What I'm finding out is girls get recruited for college softball MUCH earlier than boys. I have one of each, with the boy being older and a D-I BB player (at least leaving for school on Wednesday ). My daughter is a HS Junior, who doesn't have much interest from colleges just yet and she might've already missed her window of opportunity.

What we've found is, it's not unusual for top D-I schools to be recruiting many years ahead. I heard a top PAC-12 coach watching a 16U tournament last year (2011) saying she was looking for a 2016 outfielder, because 'that's the only spot I have left'. This coach (in her late 50's), was basically looking at 8th graders playing up at 16U to fill out her 2016 HS graduating class. Nevermind that coach will be past retirement age when the 8th grader graduates from college, that isn't the point.

What is my point? That special 13/14 year old wasn't playing LL baseball when she was 12. She was playing very competitive travel ball, against 14, 16 or even 18 year olds. Softball is different, start playing it early or she'll miss out on the opportunity.

They have more scholarships and fewer players than baseball too!

I think I was more exploring the fact that at some point in history, for what was probably a sexist, outdated reason a hundred years ago, it was decided that women will play softball and men will play baseball.

That doesn't mean I'm saying softball is a bad game, and barring some momentous decision by the NCAA or the IOC (more on that below), it isn't going to change. I'm just making fun of the situation. But I do have to say this - any batted ball sport where anyone besides the plate ump and the catcher wears a face-mask, is probably being played on too small of a diamond.

As far as the IOC is concerned, there was a train of thought that believed women's baseball had a better chance to thrive as an Olympic sport than softball - due to the fact that in international competition there was a lot more parity (read: "The US didn't win everything all the time". The IOC doesn't like it when the same country wins all the time, I sense they may like it even less when that country is the United States of America). The International Baseball Federation (IABF) paired women's baseball with men's baseball in the last round of bidding to be re-instated to the Olympic Games...and they did not succeed.

It would have been very interesting to see what happened in the batted-ball community in the US if that had happened. Doesn't matter now, as the IBAF and the International Softball Federation are merging outright and will persue admission to the 2020 Games as the International Baseball and Softball Federation.

And the whole thing about the "clutch forfeit win against a fundamentalist religious cult school" wasn't random weirdness. I was guessing that many in here knew the Arzona story where Our Lady of Sorrows forfeited a Championship game rather than play a team with a girl on it, but maybe some missed it Arizona Forfeit.

I would like to apologize for starting this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
I would like to apologize for starting this thread.

Well, the tournament doesn't start until the 16th. You just started it too soon...

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:

quote:

Originally posted by FNL:
I know "s****r" isn't allowed here, but I thought "vagina" was OK.

And it was a satirical spotlight on two issues - the awkward position of women in baseball, and that it might be a little preposterous to have a gobal Championship event for pre-pubescents.

I appreciate your thoughts and relatively unique perspective, which isn't unusual around here, so don't take what I say as anything other than "another opinion"

Girls with talent in the baseball area will ultimately play softball. We all know that. What I'm finding out is girls get recruited for college softball MUCH earlier than boys. I have one of each, with the boy being older and a D-I BB player (at least leaving for school on Wednesday ). My daughter is a HS Junior, who doesn't have much interest from colleges just yet and she might've already missed her window of opportunity.

What we've found is, it's not unusual for top D-I schools to be recruiting many years ahead. I heard a top PAC-12 coach watching a 16U tournament last year (2011) saying she was looking for a 2016 outfielder, because 'that's the only spot I have left'. This coach (in her late 50's), was basically looking at 8th graders playing up at 16U to fill out her 2016 HS graduating class. Nevermind that coach will be past retirement age when the 8th grader graduates from college, that isn't the point.

What is my point? That special 13/14 year old wasn't playing LL baseball when she was 12. She was playing very competitive travel ball, against 14, 16 or even 18 year olds. Softball is different, start playing it early or she'll miss out on the opportunity.

They have more scholarships and fewer players than baseball too!

Girls physically mature much sooner than boys. Their potential can be projected at fourteen and fifteen. Freshman year of high school my daughter was 5'10", 140. My son was only 5'11", 135 his freshman year.

My daughter was a physical late bloomer as far as girls go. She was 4'8" when when she was thirteen. But she still played 18U Gold at fifteen and verballed after summer of her soph year of high school.

quote:

Originally posted by FNL:
These boys at the LLWS are going to be trying to figure out girls' junk for the rest of their lives. Might as well start on the diamond.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:

Girls with talent in the baseball area will ultimately play softball.

This girl always preferred baseball to softball. I was really disappointed when there were no other options after I outgrew the local girls' league (missed being allowed to play Little League by one year). Of course, back in my youth, softball was a bit slower game.

It was great when I got to do some coaching for Little League before my son ended up on a team with coaches who didn't think a woman knew anything about baseball beyond being the Team Mom. I miss those days!

I enjoy the LLWS each year , big stage for the kids . At times though I am amazed at the strike zone . Seems anything within 10 inches of the plate is a strike . Of course the way the MLB umps have been calling , insert Bryce Harper here , it doesn't surprise me . LOL

Looking forward to seeing these guys play.

Read this on ESPN: "The Little League World Series is an international baseball tournament held for players between the ages of 11 and 13 and run by Little League Baseball Inc."

I think very few of those teams in the LL world series could compete with Majors level 12U and 13U tournament ball. Any of the top 32 USSSA ranked majors 12U would spank probably every one of them.

That page doesn’t say “selected from the best baseball players in the country”. That’s not the purpose of the LLWS. The teams represent their local communities (when parents don’t break the rules). I think that’s one reason that it’s broadcast on ESPN. Every kid can dream of playing in Williamsport. I’m guessing that the television audience for a 12U USSSA Championship would be much smaller. (But you can be sure that I would watch it. ) Those kids are playing at an elite level, and I don’t think the average fan would connect with them on the same level. ESPN is selling the human element, and the imperfections are part of the story.

quote:

Originally posted by bballdad2016:
Does anyone know if the PONY WS is televised?

it is not....

quote:

Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:...
I think very few of those teams in the LL world series could compete with Majors level 12U and 13U tournament ball. Any of the top 32 USSSA ranked majors 12U would spank probably every one of them.

Not sure about the "top 32" ranked Utrip teams, but the top 12 y/o Utrip, SS, Nations, Triple Crown D1, AAU teams would all destroy LL's champion. While the LLWS will have a few young phenom type players, one won't see a community based team made up with a bunch of them. Locally our area has sent numerous 12 y/o teams to the Elite WS, with a few even winning or finishing top 3. Will prob dvr & later watch CBS Sports network's coverage (later this month) of the Nation Youth Baseball Championship in Memphis. 50/70 ball, open bases, & age appropriate sized outfields.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Dorminy:
I enjoy the LLWS each year , big stage for the kids . At times though I am amazed at the strike zone . Seems anything within 10 inches of the plate is a strike .

I think nothing sets back umpiring more than the televised LLWS.....the assignments for are in part to reward volunteerism to LL.....and not totally based on ability...

There have been some very fine Umpires who have been assigned to the LLWS, but its the bad ones that stick out in everyones mind...