2013 Season

Thanks, John. You might have brought up a good point about Manchester Middle Schools dropping their baseball program, but since most of the players on Trinity are from out of Town, I believe their current slide has nothing to do with middle school.  Either way ... just an fyi .... the Timerlaine game against Trinity that was slated for Friday night has been moved to Thrusday night at 7pm in Manchester due to the Trinity HS Prom on Friday night.

With regard to Dover - Spaulding, I believe Dover holds the 1st tiebreaker, head-to-head, having defeated the Red Raiders 1-0. Regardless it should be an interesting finish for many of the contending teams this week. My only concern is the weather, and if any of these games get pushed back, it could affect pitching rotations heading into the playoffs.

I half expected an error fest last night in the BG/Trinity matchup given what I've read about Trinity and what I see with BG...  Lunn was outstanding last night though in the very chilly confines of Holman Stadium and although BG had more errors, Lunn was able to work around them.  I think both teams suffer from the problem of players not being together for years in their youth program(s) building that 'baseball chemistry'. Although each "attracts" good athletic talent year after year, each team has always had "holes" somewhere and neither is what I'd call a "baseball school"

D'oh - you're right about that Dover/Spaulding game...

Surely weather will impact this week, but playoffs don't start until next Thursday and I believe games have to be completed by the weekend, so there'd be at least 3 days rest for 'anyone'. 

I wasn't sure if games could be rescheduled into next week, So the fact that all games must be completed by the weekend is good to know. Thanks.

Playoffs start on Thursday the 30th?  What is the rest of the slate?  

Updated 4/29/2013

I think I have the correct scenario-

If Pinkerton wins Friday they are in.

If Salem loses to North, Pinkerton is in & Salem is out

If both Salem & Pinkerton win then Trinity must win tonight & Salem is out.

If Trinity loses tonight then they need either Pinkerton or Salem to lose.

Does that sound about right?

It is more complicated that that.  The recent discussion of pitching rules on this thread was timely, too bad Winni coach wasn't reading.  Apparently yesterday in Winni's 7-6 win in 10 innings over Pinkerton he used Gareau for 2 innings of relief, who had pitched 6 2/3 on Monday not aware of the new rules.  Pinkerton protested and has been awarded a 1-0 forfeit.  So now Winni is on the outside looking in hoping for some help.  Unbelievable...

Seacoast, if what you say is true, this is an example of one coach doing his job and another coach coming up very short. Nobody should criticize Pinkerton for what they did here.  They played by the rules, and more importantly, unlike Winnacunnet, KNEW the rules.  This kid practically pitches a complete game on Monday and is brought back for two innings on ONE day's rest?  So what makes the Winnacunnet coach look worse? Not knowing the rules, or possibly overusing the kid?  I guess we just have to accept that the playoffs might be a bit more important than possibly risking these kid's arms. 

Those who think I'm a bit harsh on these coaches need to ask themselves why these rules exist in the first place. 

Best of luck to Trinity and Winnacunnet in the playoffs.  We understand how important they are to you!

I remember saying early on that weather will impact this season - I just figured it'd be April weather not late May weather :-)...

So the question for Winni is - do you bring Gareau back again on Friday where's technically eligible for at least 6 1/3 innings?  I hope not!  And if they do, let's hope the coach knows about the 15 innings in a 7 day period rule too!

I think 4 teams are guaranteed to have a home first round game - #1Londonderry, Merrimack, North, and Keene. There could be a number of teams with 10-8 records (2.22 points).  Keene could be at worst 11-8 (2.31 points) which keeps them above the cluster of 10-8 teams.

Positioning for #2-11 is still up in the air, although North seems destined for the #2 slot unless they lose to Salem giving the winner of Merri and Alvirne or even Concord and Spaulding a chance to sneak in there. A 13-7 record would be a 2.60 rating while a 12-6 record would be 2.67...  Strange to think 6 losses would give you 2nd place - wouldn't have thought that to start the season!

The rest of the seedings are a mathematical challenge - Concord, Spaulding, Alvirne, Dover, BG, and Timberlane all have the possibility to finish in the top 8.  BG has to hope Dover, Timby, and Exeter lose in order to grab #8 (which is as high as they could go).

Bedford can finish no better than 12. The best they could finish is 9-9 and tie with the other two teams that could finish 9-9 (Timby & Exeter - both of whom they lost to this week).  If South wins their last 2 and Bedford loses to Central, then they could end up 13th having lost to South earlier this year.

The rest are still a toss-up.  Pinkerton is in as the worst they could finish is 7-12 (1.47) and the best Salem could be is 7-13 (1.40).  Salem must beat North and have South lose 2, Trinity lose, or Winni lose.

I would assume a Winni loss tomorrow at Londonderry at this point, as both MacHardy and Gareau will be unavailable and they will probably chew up some innings with an assortment of kids to give them some experience.  Even with MacHardy, it would be a difficult task to take down the Lancers from what I am reading, so tie-breakers will be in play for those last few slots.

OK, now that I'm royally confused ... hahahha. Sounds like Trinity needs to either win today or Salem lose on Friday, is this correct? Or are they already in?  ALSO: Trinity's game vs Timberlaine that was originall slated for tomorrow night and scheduled for tonight due to THS Prom tomorrow ..... HAS BEEN RESCHEDULED FOR 4PM TODAY @ GILL STADIUM IN MANCHESTER ......... NOT 7pm at Derryfield.

It looks like Winni beat Trinity so if they were tied Winni should get the tie breaker.  it appears that Salem would have to win & Trinity & Winni both lose to make it in. I have no idea how South figures into this. I think it might be easier to wait until tomorrow.

Congrats to the following teams who really turned things around-

Keene- Started season 1-5. they have won the last 10 of 12.

Timberlane- started season 1-6. Have won 8 of last 10 including Keene, Londonderry, Concord & Bedford.

Pinkerton- at one point they were 3-11. Have won their last 4 including Dover, Trinity & Winni. I doubt anyone wants to face this team in the first round. They were in every game but 1 all season.

If Trinity loses & Winni, South & Salem win, I believe Trinity would be out. Winni at Londonderry & Salem at North & my guess is Trinity makes in, Barely. But in is in!!

So I'm hearing all of the drama at Winni vs. Pinkerton could have/should have been avoided regarding extra innings and eligible relief pitching.  Winni had a 5-2 lead with one out and no one on base in top 7, only to surrender 4 runs before they could get the third out.  Walks, hit batters, and of course the requisite bobbled grounder with the errant throw that lead to two runs to put PHS up going into the bottom of the 7th.  No lead is safe in Hampton, apparently.    Pinkerton then left the door open when the game ending double play ball fielded by pitcher was thrown into center field allowing tying run to score, sending it into extras.  You just never know!

Actually the throw to second by Donahue was perfect. The SS & 2B stopped & looked at each other & neither covered the bag.It was still an error but not the Pitchers fault. I believe Winni pitchers hit 9 Astros batters. One of them was certainly questionable!!

It was not a clean game defensively for either team.

Did South & Memorial play yesterday? If not when are they making it up?

They did not play yesterday. Honestly not sure why. They could have. It only helps Memorial. M/U Saturday at 1pm

I guess the game was moved to the JV field due to the wet conditions on the varsity field.  The JV mound is not great- steep, with a layer of dirt covering hard clay.  As the game progressed the pitchers had a tough time with the landing area.  MacHardy fell twice and hit 3 batters (only 3 all year).  Pinkerton coach took a trip to the mound to discuss with ump, so unfortunate conditions for both sides in a meaningful game.  Something like 11 combined HBP and 18 BB over 10 innings between the teams.  

I was told by sources that Gareau from Winni said that his arm felt "fine" after Mondays loss to Keene. So the coach of Winni tried to close the game out by putting the senior in to pitch the last two outs. The senior Gareau threw about 100 pitches on Monday and then about 20 vs Pinkerton. So 120 pitches in 2 days doesn't seem like a lot but just the number of innings adds up quickly. It kinda stinks to see that the team that won had to forfeit due to the number of innings rule but hey rules are rules. Great/Sloppy 10 inning game played by both teams. Should be an interesting closing to the regular season tomorrow.

About ~100 in 6 1/3 (about 15 per) and 20 in 2+?  Very efficient, but still not right.  What competitive 17-18 year old with a playoff spot on the line would balk at the chance to help their team win? This is completely on the coach and I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't allowed to be in Londonderry today (or whenever the game is played).

I agree that "something" more needs to be done to ensure the protection of the arms. Great evidence this year that there are coaches out there that will skirt the rules and the spirit of the rules (not only this Winni situation).  To a degree parents are somewhat helpless - coaches don't generally take parental involvement too kindly.  Players don't want mommy/daddy talking with the coach either. Again, competitive 17/18 year olds that to some degree don't understand the future and the harm that can be done by overuse.  Head over to the general, college, and injury forums on this site to read about kids with elbow, rotator cuff, and overuse injuries.  Nothing like spending a year recovering from that and a lifetime of soreness.

The rest rule after throwing 5+ should be altered to at least 4 days to avoid the Mon/Fri situation. Keep the 15 in 7 days and 9 in one day - those will help keep pitch counts more reasonable. Throwing 4+ should be 3 days and 3+ should be 2 days.  Automatic 2 game suspensions for coaches that don't follow it - no need to protest games if coaches are required to submit inning counts after each game. While I agree that pitch counts could play a role - the problem is who's count is right. LL has their rule and every inning coaches are supposed to "agree" on the current count, but they don't always do so.  When those teams get to regional and world series play someone "official" is counting.  That's not going to happen in HS - if schools cannot afford a shot clock for basketball, they'll be hard pressed to afford an official pitch count recorder.

There is a big difference between 120 pitches in one game & 100 pitches on Monday & then 20 pitches on Wednesday. I think 120 pitches from 16-18 year old's is too much. Isolated instances I understand but as a rule I am against over 100 pitches. To throw 100 on Monday & then again on Wednesday is much worse than 120 on Monday. Everyone knows that. It is neglect, plain & simple. It was putting a win ahead of what is not only right but against the rules.

No I totally agree with you guys. The pitching rules have to be changed because a kid could throw a 80 Pitch complete game and another could throw 130 complete game but they both need rest after their games. The pitching for this league should be by pitch count and not by innings pitched.

I still like the "day rest for every 30-35 pitches thrown" theory ... but hey, what do I know.

Wasn't there a game or two yesterday?  I thought Trinity vs. Timberlane was rescheduled for yesterday in Nashua?  I don't see any score....

Trinity and Timberlane played 3 innings in Manchester yesterday and was 3-0 Timberlane heading into the top of the 3rd when the heavens opened up and poured. Was scheduled to be completed this afternoon, but canceled. Not sure of a make up day.

I Disagree. I think this over legislates the game, and I was doing pitch counts 4 years BEFORE Little League went National with it. Coaches should all "be aware" of pitch counts, no doubt, it should go into the equation and it should NOT be all about wins. Innings are NEVER a true indicator of use. But we are in a day and age when frankly there isn't enough long toss or strengthening of arms in programs. And lets face it, many will still play other positions, continue to throw, do side sessions (Bullpens) in between starts, etc. SOME of these pitchers do an off season program for strength and conditioning. How many coaches are aware of who does what ? Are any of us ? How many of these varsity coaches are aware of what happens during Legion play ? or Fall ball ? whom is improving, playing different positions. Some of them just tune it out once the HS season is over. It's really incumbent on the coaches to be smarter, have more of a feel for the game and his staff and the well fare of his kids, which means a better job by AD's in Coach searches, and to pay attention  to what's going on in the program and work with these coaches. Don't get me wrong, I understand they have MANY programs to watch over, but I couldn't even tell you the last time I saw THE AD at a game in South. Being a Good Varsity coach means knowing what's going on in your entire program (JV, Freshman), and being on the same page with each coach at each level and having a program in place that's promotes players, not just wins. I had a conversation with a certain Varsity coach a few years ago about a Freshman who had just struck out 16-17 kids in a game in Keene two days earlier. Varsity coach had never heard of him, and the JV coach wasn't aware.  

SNHBBallCoach23 - I understand your point and agree about the "over legislation" part; however, with all the information "today" that's out there, it's absolutely astounding to me that some coaches don't want to or won't accept it.  Because there are a few that won't, the rest end up suffering. We just had a good laugh in my house about some local babe ruth baseball rules that make no sense, but were probably created because 'someone' tried to circumnagivate the intent of a rule..  Our absolute favorite was "9 players with 3 on grass. Must have 9 players or forfeit" - wait, what? Since when are BR age players supposed to be smoking grass

I also agree a good varsity coach knows what's going on, communicates to, and is open to communication from the players/parents. I'm not talking game strategy, but what are the goals, expectations, etc.  I'm sure you can pretty quickly tell the difference between wacko parents with unrealistic expectations and those that are in touch with reality...

FWIW:

An argument against pitch counts is there's a difference between a pitch count for Tim Wakefield and Roger Clemens...  Draw your own local corollaries.

Lol...John...I think we both know a lot of the Babe Ruth coaches in this city, and the game passed them a LONG time ago. There is zero teaching at the Babe Ruth level, (many of them don't understand fundamentals themselves) and because of that, there is little respect from knowledgeable parents in the city towards the program. It's simply extra at bats for the kids.

Pitch Counts: The other problem we haven't touched on is how the NHIAA would administer, verify and keep track of Pitch counts. It sure the hell wouldn't be them...lol. Good luck trying to keep track of that, it would be a nightmare. I can't see it happening. 

Well south just got ten runned by Pinkerton, and Salem ten runned North.. So to anyone out there keeping track, does South's game tomorrow with Memorial even matter ? Are they out now ?

In a more disturbing note, which I hope someone from the NHIAA is monitoring this page, the Home plate Umpire reeked of alcohol at Pinkerton, Both Coaches noticed as did many of the players (Catcher, Batters etc). To even be stupid enough to have one before a game can give the perception of several, well, this guy smelled like several.

Really bad call vs South too in the 4th on a double play ball. SS hit the south runner with the throw to 1st after coming across the bag. Umps consulted and called a double play because the runner didn't slide at second. The only problem with that is the runner was a good 35-40 feet from second base. Runners aren't supposed to slide half way between bases.

This post is irresponsible. First of all no one that I know of heard anything about the Ump smelling like anything. Second of all what game were you watching????? The runner hit the 2nd baseman while he was in his follow thru. The runner was less than 2 full strides from the bag & made no attemp to slide. He ducked his head to protect his face. He clearly did what he did intentionally or he doesn't have a clue how the game is played. 35 or 40 feet????? WOW!!

Irresponsible ? Irresponsible is insinuating that either I or every south player is lying. Ask your coach, or your catcher. Every player on South was talking about it and laughing. Said they couldn't believe it until they walked up to the plate themselves. As far as the runner goes, Clearly you weren't watching the same game I was either. 30 feet is Ten yards. The runner was further out than 10 yards. He was not in a position to slide yet. Anything else ? 

Now its 30 feet. Not worth arguing with you. You remember it how ever you want. He was called out for a reason!!

Um...Yah, I said "30 feet is Ten yards. The runner was further out than 10 yards out"  That would put it PAST 30 feet, but it's math, and I digress. To expand on it, the runner is at least 6-3, 300 lbs, is NOT fleet of foot, or nimble, and yes probably did run into the second baseman AFTER the ball hit him because he continued on and was dazed. To be honest I barely remember that because the ball narrowly missed me on the fly after hitting him and I was a good 25 feet beyond 1st. The second baseman did his job, threw through the runner. I have taught my players to do the same. The runner did his job, he wasn't close to being in the sliding zone. It would have been a good non call. The Coach argued it for two minutes. He saw the same, from your angle, not mine.

Are you sure you were not the one who was drinking????????? This is getting good. Now he stumbled 30 feet because he was dazed from getting hit in the head. OK

Based on results and reading of the tie breaking procedures...  It's raining, what else was there to do...  I think the following is correct, but we only find out for sure early next week when the official seeds are released.

Concord v. Dover result plays a large part in the top 8 seeds

South v. Memorial results are positional

Trinity v. Timberlane result means a playoff spot for Trinity

Winnacunnet needs a South win and Trinity loss (a 6-12 tie w/ Trinity and having head to head win)

Londonderry #1

North - #2 Concord loss, #3 Concord win

Concord - #2 win, #5 loss

Keene - #3 Concord loss, #4 Concord win

Alvirne - #4 Concord loss, #6 Concord win

Spaulding - #5 Concord win, #7 Concord loss

Merrimack - #6 Concord loss, #7 Concord win

Dover - #8 win vs. Concord, #9 loss vs. Concord & Timberlane loss, #10 otherwise

BG - #8 Dover and Timberlane loss, #9 Dover Win, Timberlane loss, #10 otherwise

Timberlane - #8 win vs. Trinity and Dover loss, #9 win vs. Trinity & Dover win, #11 with loss (H2H loss to Exeter)

Exeter - #10 Timberlane loss, #11 Timberlane win

Bedford - #12

Pinkerton - #13

Trinity - #14 win vs. Timberlane, #15 loss vs. Timberlane and South loss, out if lose and South wins

South - #14 win vs. Memorial & Trinity loss, #15 win vs. Memorial & Trinity win, #16 otherwise

Salem - #14 Trinity & South lose, #15 South or Trinity lose, #16 otherwise

Winnacunnet - #16 Trinity loss & South win

Tiebreakers with teams tied is head to head (H2H) first, followed by record against teams tied, followed by record vs. playoff teams... The strange part about the last one is that a loss to a non-playoff team helps you...

In order to resolve ties at the top end of the bracket, the bottom of the bracket has to be resolved first only if South & Trinity lose their games...

If South, Trinity, and Winnacunnet were all tied at 6-12, then

  -> Each is 1-1 vs. the other

  -> South and Trinity are 5-11 vs the 17 possible playoff teams (including Winni)

  -> Winni is only 4-12 vs the 17 possible playoff teams, thus is eliminated

  -> Trinity beat South H2H, thus would be #15

Back to the top of the bracket... The first part is easier because the head to head works out...

Concord loss to Dover leaves 4 teams tied at 11-7

 -> Concord & Alvirne are 2-1 vs the teams tied

 -> Merrimack & Spaulding are 1-2 vs. the teams tied

   -> Alvirne beat Concord H2H, thus is #4

   -> Merrimack beat Spaulding H2H, thus is #6

The rest is confusing at best, but I don't think anything changes regardless of who is #17.  The strange part is that Spaulding's loss to Central helps them when it comes to record vs. playoff teams because it gets taken out of the equation. I guess beating a playoff team that someone else didn't is better than losing to a non playoff team as strange as that seems

IF Winnicunnet is #17, then we have the following

Concord win over Dover leaves 3 teams tied at 11-7

 -> Alvirne, Merrimack, & Spaulding are 1-1 vs. each other (tie break #1)

 -> Take away Winni, Memorial, & Central wins (tie break #2)

    -> Spaulding 10-5, Alvirne 8-7, Merrimack 8-7

       -> Spaudling's losses to Winni and Central helps them

    -> Thus Spaulding is #5, Alvirne #6 based on H2H over Merrimack

IF Trinity is #17, then we have the following

Concord win over Dover leaves 3 teams tied at 11-7

 -> Alvirne, Merrimack, & Spaulding are 1-1 vs. each other (tie break #1)

 -> Take away Trinity, Memorial, & Central wins (tie break #2)

    -> Spaulding 9-6, Alvirne 8-7, Merrimack 8-7

       -> Spaulding's loss to Central helps them

    -> Thus Spaulding is #5, Alvirne #6 based on H2H over Merrimack

K...that's TWO things you've invented on this string. Where did you see the word "Stumbled" ?  I said Dazed.....That doesn't prevent him from continuing forward. Grow up.

Thanks John....That's about as thorough as you can get. Amazing that North can't seem to lock that 2 spot. Great second half's from Spaulding, Alvirne and Pinkerton.

Amazing job, JohnF.  I need Advil just to digest it.  How many cups of coffee did it take you?

SNHBBALL, 

Not sure that I agree that Spaulding has had a great 2nd half.  After starting 7-2, they finish 4-5. (including losing 7 of last 12)  Maybe you see the future and predict 4 straight playoff wins? You may have meant Keene. Winners of 11 of 13 and their last 5.

Coach Campo and Pinkerton turning their season around is a great story. Winning their last 5....

Alvirne winners of six in a row enter the playoffs on a high.....

Can't wait for Thursday.