lafmom
You always start your starters--- not starting them can be a disaster and a recipe for defeat
Never underestimate your opponent-- when you do that, you lose
It is also a slap in the face of the other team. You are going into the game telling them you think they stink and you can beat them with your subs--- als what are you telling your kids--- you subs only play against teams we think we can beat easily--
TR - I agree and suspect that our coach will start our starters for those very reasons. Not to start with your starters would be the same as the scenario of having kids walk off base, etc. You don't have to pound a team into the ground by running up the score, but you owe them the respect of playing a ballgame. I'll let you know what happens with our game (what the coach does).
lafmom
Thanx
This is a very interesting topic to read especially for the youth league coaches
Thanx
This is a very interesting topic to read especially for the youth league coaches
BeenThere...give us some specifics. I'm a pretty smart guy and I haven't found the answer to the blowout problem. How would you specifically handle the situation from both sides.
If George Kennedy just walked away and didn't let Paul Newman off the ground time after time, Luke would never have become...."Cool Hand". In my world quitting (weather winning or losing) is a greater evil than getting you butt kicked.
If George Kennedy just walked away and didn't let Paul Newman off the ground time after time, Luke would never have become...."Cool Hand". In my world quitting (weather winning or losing) is a greater evil than getting you butt kicked.
I said it before and I will say it again. If we were getting waxed and the other team started to let us get them out. If they quit trying I would be more upset. Its not the other teams fault if we are incapabel of being competitive. Now if they were bunting and left there starters in I would have a problem with it. But its my understanding that that was not the case here. How can the winning coach be a bum in this case? Someone explain how this is the case to me please. There is a team in our conference that is not very good. In fact they have not won a conf game since we have been in this conf (8)years. We go into the game and approach it like it is a championship game. Just like we approach every game. When we get up by 8 or 9 runs we pull everyone that starts and pull our starting pitcher. We do not bunt do not steal and play station to station baseball. Now there have been times they could just not make a play, throw a strike and (they) could not stop it from getting ugly. Usually it ends up being 15-0 in five or even worse. I repeat I am not going to tell a kid that rarely gets to play to not try to get a hit. I am not going to tell a player to make an error. WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST THAT A TEAM IN THIS SITUATION DO! I really want to hear your answer.
Coach May...if you have a team in your conf that has not won a game in 8 yrs...what's that, 60 games or more? At a coaches meeting I would suggest they drop the program or move down a few notches...5a to 3a or so. That is a sad story, and I have never heard of that senario before...must be hard to get players much less a coach.
Can they plant tobacco? Just kidding...
Can they plant tobacco? Just kidding...
I would sit my players down between innings (likely the first 2 or 3) and explain to them that everyone who is righthanded has to bat lefthanded and everyone that is lefthanded has to bat righthanded. If it's close, you're swinging.
I would not count the stats for the kids and explain to them that I WOULD NOT EMBARRASS a kid/opponent in any situation.
If the other team wanted to play an unofficial game after the official game was called, then I would do so.
Just like one of those college kids last year that got 7-8 at bats in a game where they smoked someone 30+-0. What did his 7-8 mean against a hamburger team? Beat me but don't embarrass me. Do it when you're playing the "big boys" and it matters and I have no problem....likely not to happen,however.
I have been fortunate to have some quality kids to coach in summer team programs that I've been associated with.
However, in 2002, we played in a local tournament preparing for nationals. All three games ended after 3 innings, including the "championship" game. Talked with the opposing coach and umpire and that was that.
NEVER embarrass a kid!
I would not count the stats for the kids and explain to them that I WOULD NOT EMBARRASS a kid/opponent in any situation.
If the other team wanted to play an unofficial game after the official game was called, then I would do so.
Just like one of those college kids last year that got 7-8 at bats in a game where they smoked someone 30+-0. What did his 7-8 mean against a hamburger team? Beat me but don't embarrass me. Do it when you're playing the "big boys" and it matters and I have no problem....likely not to happen,however.
I have been fortunate to have some quality kids to coach in summer team programs that I've been associated with.
However, in 2002, we played in a local tournament preparing for nationals. All three games ended after 3 innings, including the "championship" game. Talked with the opposing coach and umpire and that was that.
NEVER embarrass a kid!
quote:I would sit my players down between innings (likely the first 2 or 3) and explain to them that everyone who is righthanded has to bat lefthanded and everyone that is lefthanded has to bat righthanded. If it's close, you're swinging.
I would not count the stats for the kids and explain to them that I WOULD NOT EMBARRASS a kid/opponent in any situation.
So you would embarrass your own kids by having them out there not trying and switching sides at the plate. That is the same as slapping the other team in the face. You might as well have them step off and go halfway to get tagged out. That doesn't even make sense to anybody but you.
You say never embarrass a kid, but you have your subs not try. Ridiculous.
BT, making kids bat wronghanded would make the entire game a bigger joke - - would you have them field and throw wronghanded too?? are your pitchers pitching wronghanded?? by the way, in hs federation games you can't pick and choose which ones you'll count stats in!! maybe ya want to rethink that one
if I'm the coach on the recieving end of that beating, once it's clear how things are progressing -
between innings I call the opposing coach to the plate for a conference - there I forfiet the game (7-0 score, by rule) and ask him to remain at the field since we have it anyway and work situations with us awhile - if we're lucky blue will hang around awhile as well
if he refuses we stay and work alone
if I'm the coach on the recieving end of that beating, once it's clear how things are progressing -
between innings I call the opposing coach to the plate for a conference - there I forfiet the game (7-0 score, by rule) and ask him to remain at the field since we have it anyway and work situations with us awhile - if we're lucky blue will hang around awhile as well
if he refuses we stay and work alone
Lets put plug this into football. Our HS team has been pretty weak for the past few years. We have taken a few beatings. The other team puts in their 3rd string in the 3rd quarter. They quit passing the ball and running deception plays. They run dives straight into the line of scrimmage. We leave our starters in because we dont want it to get any worse. We keep throwing the ball because we want to at least score. They are doing everything they can to hold down the score but are still scoring. How would I as a parent feel if they just started taking a knee in the third quarter? I would be humiliated if I thought the other teams players on the field or the other team was not trying. As a player I would be humiliated if the other team stopped trying. I may be getting beat but I still want to compete. And I want to know that the other guy in front of me is trying to compete as well no matter what the score is. You try to hold down the score if you can. But you never stop competing. NEVER.
BeenThere, I'm positive you are a smart guy, but IMO your solution in this case solves nothing. How about instead of batting opposite, you shackle their legs and make em run backwords? The answer is simple and I would follow Coach May's previous description. Play the game out without tricks or aggression. We've all built character by finishing what we start no matter how painful it is. This is one of those instances. Sometime being embarrassed ocassionally is a good thing too...
We have a team in our city similar to Coach May's example. Our high school is not far behind. However, moving down a division is not possible, because it is based solely on number of students in the school and mandated by the state.
What's funny is due to city demographics, etc. is the above mentioned school will probably never move down a level, but our high school is very likely to move down a level in the next few years because of a new high school built that robbed a portion of our students.
What's funny is due to city demographics, etc. is the above mentioned school will probably never move down a level, but our high school is very likely to move down a level in the next few years because of a new high school built that robbed a portion of our students.
Gees....
This is getting to be like an AOL chatroom with all kinds of "attitudes" hiding behind screen names.
bb...My son played for Ron Polk at Mississippi State and I do know a bit about the game. You may not like my position, but it is my opinion about a situation, nonetheless. NEVER EMBARRASS ANOTHER TEAM. NEVER.
This is getting to be like an AOL chatroom with all kinds of "attitudes" hiding behind screen names.
bb...My son played for Ron Polk at Mississippi State and I do know a bit about the game. You may not like my position, but it is my opinion about a situation, nonetheless. NEVER EMBARRASS ANOTHER TEAM. NEVER.
Am I hearing in all this that most HS teams have a true pitching rotation in high school, and true starters and backups throughout the season??
Our best players always start the area games and in the area games, certain pitchers start certain teams, (it has never been a true rotation).
We have about 6 games on our schedule every year with 1a and 2a teams (we're 5a) where the coaches start the backups and even bring up JV players for these games.
In our preseason tournament, we have a small private school that comes every year. They bring lots of folks, and spend lots of money at the gate and concession. Our starters never start that game, and usually a JV player pitches it.
Also, we take both JV and Varsity to Tuscaloosa to watch an Alabama baseball game every year, then play a double header on Saturday. One of the teams we play is 4a and we use our starters for that one, but the other team is 1a or 2a, the JV players play that team in Varsity uniforms.
Is that common, or totally off the wall??
Our best players always start the area games and in the area games, certain pitchers start certain teams, (it has never been a true rotation).
We have about 6 games on our schedule every year with 1a and 2a teams (we're 5a) where the coaches start the backups and even bring up JV players for these games.
In our preseason tournament, we have a small private school that comes every year. They bring lots of folks, and spend lots of money at the gate and concession. Our starters never start that game, and usually a JV player pitches it.
Also, we take both JV and Varsity to Tuscaloosa to watch an Alabama baseball game every year, then play a double header on Saturday. One of the teams we play is 4a and we use our starters for that one, but the other team is 1a or 2a, the JV players play that team in Varsity uniforms.
Is that common, or totally off the wall??
It seems like everyone here is in agreement - with BeenThere and his statement "never embarrass another team"
The dissagreement comes from whether or not you believe there are other ways to embarrasss a team than via the score.
It is called RESPECT. I have a lot of respect for a team of kids who are willing to come out and battle under those odds.
My guess is that kids with that much grit would rather lose 33-1 PLAYING the game against your subs than to lose 12-1 only because your subs batted off sides.
All they have is their grit and determination - certainly enough to gain my respect.
The dissagreement comes from whether or not you believe there are other ways to embarrasss a team than via the score.
It is called RESPECT. I have a lot of respect for a team of kids who are willing to come out and battle under those odds.
My guess is that kids with that much grit would rather lose 33-1 PLAYING the game against your subs than to lose 12-1 only because your subs batted off sides.
All they have is their grit and determination - certainly enough to gain my respect.
Some observations:
What's worse than a 30-0 game? A 30-17 game that lasts about 4 hours because the dominant team layed down.
On the other hand we had a 10-0 game the other day that ended with the 5th inning run rule, and it was torture to watch.
In a lopsided contest, what both teams want is the game to be over.
I've had players intentionally get picked at 1st to end the inning, but I can't see doing that for all 3 outs.
It has to do with the dynamics of the game, a lot of had-to-be-there stuff involved.
What's worse than a 30-0 game? A 30-17 game that lasts about 4 hours because the dominant team layed down.
On the other hand we had a 10-0 game the other day that ended with the 5th inning run rule, and it was torture to watch.
In a lopsided contest, what both teams want is the game to be over.
I've had players intentionally get picked at 1st to end the inning, but I can't see doing that for all 3 outs.
It has to do with the dynamics of the game, a lot of had-to-be-there stuff involved.
I would have no respect for a coach on either end of the score that laid down, nor would I respect any coach that gave up. Unfortunatly the score is all we (unless you were there) see, I would hope all those kids that do not see PT got pleanty of swings and innings, and that the starters were behind them and involved 100% without a smirk on their face. The score, while official should revert to the inning that made it an official game.
I know of too many parents that say
Select ball is a different story, but, HS baseball has different goals.
I would hope the winning coach had his starters in the right frame of mind of respecting your competition, and if it was me they'd have a little extra road work to make sure they got a good workout that day.
I know of too many parents that say
quote:I know he's not a star, but, I wish he could have made it into a game for at least a couple of innings. He tries so hard even knowing where is place will be game day
Select ball is a different story, but, HS baseball has different goals.
I would hope the winning coach had his starters in the right frame of mind of respecting your competition, and if it was me they'd have a little extra road work to make sure they got a good workout that day.
There are so many different ways to hurry a game up without disrespecting the other team or, really, the game. An interesting exercise might be the ways to do it. I'll start:
Free swinging; all but mandatory after two pitches.
Swing for the fences ... inevitably, they miss.
Make your pitcher work faster ... that's almost always a good thing anyway.
Free swinging; all but mandatory after two pitches.
Swing for the fences ... inevitably, they miss.
Make your pitcher work faster ... that's almost always a good thing anyway.
BeenThere...I'm going to try one more time and then I promise I'm done. It seems that most of the folks who posted on this subject would agree that batting all your batters opposite their normal stance is at least as embarrassing to the other team as playing the game out without aggression. I say more, but that's just my opinion. If you believe that you never embarrass an opponent and quite a few people think your solution is in fact embarrassing then how can that be a good solution? Is your perception of embarrassment more important than the perception of your opponent? If you were beating me 20-0 and then ordered your batters to hit opposite then I would have a problem. You just embarrassed me and broke your own personal rule. BeenThere, can't you see that everyone's perception of what is embarrassing is their own based upon their own experiences. You can't win. That's why you play the game out.