Which does coaches look at more? 40 yd. or 60yd. time? What would be a good time for the one they prefer?
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Typically baseball speed is tested by 60 yard time, while football is tested by 40 yard times.
However, there are components of both that apply to baseball performance.
But baseball coaches are looking for the 60 yard times in most cases.
However, there are components of both that apply to baseball performance.
But baseball coaches are looking for the 60 yard times in most cases.
baseball players are slower then football players dont compare the two
3.9
Excuse me!!!!!
Excuse me!!!!!
3.9
That's an idiodic statement. You better be more specific! I would bet any MLB 3rd baseman could beat any NFL offensive lineman...anyday. See what I mean.
That's an idiodic statement. You better be more specific! I would bet any MLB 3rd baseman could beat any NFL offensive lineman...anyday. See what I mean.
Speaking of 60's, my 16 y.o. ran a 6.63 tonight. I'm still in shock.
As Jon said baseball showcases etc rely on the 60 yd. dash as a measure of pure speed. Some utilize hand time or a hand held stop watch and a more accurate way is FAT time or fully automatic timing. FAT timing takes away the human element. Most athletes do not like FAT times and most educated and progressive coaches love it. It is the only objective way to time. FAT times will typically be .2 - .6 slower than hand held times. You can see why athletes don't like this utilization.
Speed is a function of mechanics not unlike hitting or throwing. Speed must be taught by a coach who not only can recognize the deficient mechanical issues but be able to correct the issues through proper drill sequencing and muscle activation. Some are blessed with more available fast twitch fiber than others but you can be taught to be faster and run more efficiently than you currently do regardless of age.
Athletes who 'specialized' in baseball at an early age usually have not had any exposure to movement mechanics. This might be where 3.9's assumption that baseball players are slower than football players comes from.
How important is speed in baseball? I have had college and pro scouts come up to me when testing athletes at a showcase and ask if there was anyone who ran a sub 7.0 sixty. I knew the answer but I wanted to hear him say it...I asked 'Why do you ask?' His reply - "I don't care if he knows which hand to put his glove on, if he can run I can teach him to play baseball."
I have tested literally tens of thousands of athletes and approx. half of those baseball players who had aspirations of playing at the next level. I have only seen 2 sub 6.6 sixties utilizing auto time.
Missouri dad - congrats on the 6.63 your son ran. That is exciting and should get some attention.
Jason
www.360performance.net
Speed is a function of mechanics not unlike hitting or throwing. Speed must be taught by a coach who not only can recognize the deficient mechanical issues but be able to correct the issues through proper drill sequencing and muscle activation. Some are blessed with more available fast twitch fiber than others but you can be taught to be faster and run more efficiently than you currently do regardless of age.
Athletes who 'specialized' in baseball at an early age usually have not had any exposure to movement mechanics. This might be where 3.9's assumption that baseball players are slower than football players comes from.
How important is speed in baseball? I have had college and pro scouts come up to me when testing athletes at a showcase and ask if there was anyone who ran a sub 7.0 sixty. I knew the answer but I wanted to hear him say it...I asked 'Why do you ask?' His reply - "I don't care if he knows which hand to put his glove on, if he can run I can teach him to play baseball."
I have tested literally tens of thousands of athletes and approx. half of those baseball players who had aspirations of playing at the next level. I have only seen 2 sub 6.6 sixties utilizing auto time.
Missouri dad - congrats on the 6.63 your son ran. That is exciting and should get some attention.
Jason
www.360performance.net
Most O-linemen run a 4.8 - 5.2 the fastest persop on my highschool baseball team ran a 5.1 and the fastest guy on my highschool football team ran a 4.2 i would to love to see a highschool player run a 4.8
3.9
Expand your horizons. Don't generalize sports or the world based on what is happening at your school.
Expand your horizons. Don't generalize sports or the world based on what is happening at your school.
justin upton can probly run a 4.1 or 4.2
A 4.1-4.2 40?
He ran like a 6.23 or something like that in the 60 yard
using simple ratio
x/40 6.23/60
he woul run a 4.153
x/40 6.23/60
he woul run a 4.153
really 3.9? you dont have a centerfielder who can break 5? wow, must not have many stolen bases on that team. you have a football player who runs a 4.2? he must being going very big time. but i'm guessing thats a hand timed 4.2 and hes probably 4.5 electronic. i happen to know that after his sr year at kstate darren sproles(now a kick returner for san diego chargers) ran a 4.38 at an NFL combine and was the fastest running back there. so i doubt your high school has someone considerably faster then all the running backs at an combine.
Coach JasonTX
If I remember correctly, the PG Showcase video says that lazer timed 60s are usually 0.1 to 0.15 seconds faster than handheld timing. I assume the lazer timing is a FAT system you are talking about. So stopwatch times are slower than FAT times. Correct me if this is wrong.
If I remember correctly, the PG Showcase video says that lazer timed 60s are usually 0.1 to 0.15 seconds faster than handheld timing. I assume the lazer timing is a FAT system you are talking about. So stopwatch times are slower than FAT times. Correct me if this is wrong.
Missouri Dad,
Yes sir, you are correct and so are they. They are also trying to make us feel better.
Many factors are involved. It has been my experience that it is closer to .2 on average but I have seen as much as .6 variance.
Stopwatch times can be very accurate but it depends on who is doing the timing and how it is executed. My staff at one time did both and compared the results. Really anything sub 7.0 in the sixty is very fast.
I agree with someone else who posted on another thread. The sixty is really worthless when assessing what kind of baseball player a kid really is. If you run more than 90 feet with out making a left turn you either beat out a single or you made a right turn to go to a dugout because you were thrown out. However, that said it is what is looked at so it continues to be tested and I am allowed to stay in business and teach prospects how to beat the test and improve overall mechanics.
If I am assessing players I am more interested in the 0 - 10 yard mark and their vertical and broad or long jump results. Those numbers tell me what kind of explosiveness a kid has and gives a window to how much fast twitch fiber a kid can recruit.
Jason
www.360performance.net
Yes sir, you are correct and so are they. They are also trying to make us feel better.
Many factors are involved. It has been my experience that it is closer to .2 on average but I have seen as much as .6 variance.
Stopwatch times can be very accurate but it depends on who is doing the timing and how it is executed. My staff at one time did both and compared the results. Really anything sub 7.0 in the sixty is very fast.
I agree with someone else who posted on another thread. The sixty is really worthless when assessing what kind of baseball player a kid really is. If you run more than 90 feet with out making a left turn you either beat out a single or you made a right turn to go to a dugout because you were thrown out. However, that said it is what is looked at so it continues to be tested and I am allowed to stay in business and teach prospects how to beat the test and improve overall mechanics.
If I am assessing players I am more interested in the 0 - 10 yard mark and their vertical and broad or long jump results. Those numbers tell me what kind of explosiveness a kid has and gives a window to how much fast twitch fiber a kid can recruit.
Jason
www.360performance.net
All,
Justin Upton is an athlete...period. He is about 5'9" or 5' 10" tops and can do a 360 dunk. He signed with the same management group out of CA that a couple of my clients are with. I had the opportunity to train him in January for a brief period before he signed with AZ. Wonderful athlete and even better person.
My humble prediction if anyone cares...he has more upside than his older brother and if healthy could go further.
Jason
www.360performance.net
Justin Upton is an athlete...period. He is about 5'9" or 5' 10" tops and can do a 360 dunk. He signed with the same management group out of CA that a couple of my clients are with. I had the opportunity to train him in January for a brief period before he signed with AZ. Wonderful athlete and even better person.
My humble prediction if anyone cares...he has more upside than his older brother and if healthy could go further.
Jason
www.360performance.net
I thought Upton was more like 6'2 or 6'3...
Anyways, speaking of fast 60's, I believe a kid named Derrick Robinson ran a 6.19 at PG event.
Anyways, speaking of fast 60's, I believe a kid named Derrick Robinson ran a 6.19 at PG event.
We all know Derrick 
Fastest in country fo sho bro. peace Shep
Fastest in country fo sho bro. peace Shep
Coach JasonTX:
Excellent stuff. You obviously know what you are talking about. Wish you were closer to West Virginia. My son could certainly use you.
My son ran a laser timed 7.37 60 at a PG event last summer [he was a 5'8" high school sophomore]. His 30 time in that run was 4.38. His best 40 time in football by stop watch was 4.68 [which I find hard to believe]. I watched the video of him running in the PG event and he starts out bowlegged for about 20 yards and then his legs get all tangled up with his knees almost knocking into each other for the last 40 yards. Can you help any from long distance? PM me if you wish.
Excellent stuff. You obviously know what you are talking about. Wish you were closer to West Virginia. My son could certainly use you.
My son ran a laser timed 7.37 60 at a PG event last summer [he was a 5'8" high school sophomore]. His 30 time in that run was 4.38. His best 40 time in football by stop watch was 4.68 [which I find hard to believe]. I watched the video of him running in the PG event and he starts out bowlegged for about 20 yards and then his legs get all tangled up with his knees almost knocking into each other for the last 40 yards. Can you help any from long distance? PM me if you wish.
At my son's HS tryouts the coach timed each player by having the kid in the batter's box with a bat, take a cut and run to first base. He started the stopwatch with the swing. I thought that to be a pretty practical way to time baseball speed. I was early to pick him up and watched this for a while and noticed that although a few of the guys were pretty fast, their times were slower because they either had slower swings, or were slower dropping the bat and getting out of the box. The coach did not time them running any other distances like from first to third or home to second, which I would have thought logical to do.
Woody,
That is certainly a way to gauge home to first time, but as you observed there are many, many variables.
Times are just a test. they give the tester a good idea of the individuals strengths and weaknesses.
I just worry that some coaches test times just for the heck of it. In most cases it is a waste of time. I have actually seen HS coaches waste an entire practice doing times and tests.
While I agree a certain baseline is needed, most players need more skill work. I know that if the coaches focus on time then the kids will as well. They should be focusing on improving their baseball skills and overall athleticism and then worry about the minute details when that time comes.
That is certainly a way to gauge home to first time, but as you observed there are many, many variables.
Times are just a test. they give the tester a good idea of the individuals strengths and weaknesses.
I just worry that some coaches test times just for the heck of it. In most cases it is a waste of time. I have actually seen HS coaches waste an entire practice doing times and tests.
While I agree a certain baseline is needed, most players need more skill work. I know that if the coaches focus on time then the kids will as well. They should be focusing on improving their baseball skills and overall athleticism and then worry about the minute details when that time comes.
Jon,
No arguments from me on that one. Since it's just tryouts at this point (4 days worth) I'm sure the coaches are just trying to get an idea of who can do what, and are just adding another piece to the puzzle. After the team is chosen, the skill work will begin --I assume.
No arguments from me on that one. Since it's just tryouts at this point (4 days worth) I'm sure the coaches are just trying to get an idea of who can do what, and are just adding another piece to the puzzle. After the team is chosen, the skill work will begin --I assume.
I hope so.
Eveyone reading please don't take my previous post as meaning times are not important. Heck, one of the things I do for a living is make people fast. I was just pointing out a few observations I have made.
Testing should be done, but not obsessed over until the time is right.
Eveyone reading please don't take my previous post as meaning times are not important. Heck, one of the things I do for a living is make people fast. I was just pointing out a few observations I have made.
Testing should be done, but not obsessed over until the time is right.
Woody,
You are correct in assuming that the test for speed is in some cases a way for coaches to add another piece to the puzzle. We have all seen the athlete who could run and the coaches thought they could play baseball only to find out they are the project.
As I have stated before here, the 60 is the worst test for a baseball player in assessing skill or overall athleticism.
Jason
www.360performance.net
jason@360performance.net
You are correct in assuming that the test for speed is in some cases a way for coaches to add another piece to the puzzle. We have all seen the athlete who could run and the coaches thought they could play baseball only to find out they are the project.
As I have stated before here, the 60 is the worst test for a baseball player in assessing skill or overall athleticism.
Jason
www.360performance.net
jason@360performance.net